Forum Activity for @themusicaldabbler

I clearly was not using the search function correctly. I was very surprised to not find anything and will have to try again. Thanks for the reply!

An update on my Chet Hines Dulcimer!

I was able to make it back to Texas today and am at my in-laws house where I had the dulcimer delivered. I finally got to see it in person. 

I had also found a copy of his book and had it delivered to their house as well. 

imagine my delight when I discovered on page 111of his book a picture of my very dulcimer. The grain is very distinctive and there’s no doubt it is my dulcimer. I’m so very excited to own this wonderful instrument. 

it does look like there may be an inscription visible through the lower sound holes. They look lightly scratched into the inside perhaps with a nail or an awl. I can’t be positive as there is little contrast between the inscription and the wood it’s on. Once I’m back home in Portugal I will try and see if I can bring that out. 

cheers everyone and thanks for your help with this project!

paula

There are a few other places around FOTMD where people discussed this video.  I am more impressed with Seyfried's singing than her dulcimer playing, but it's all pretty impressive.  And it's great to see the dulcimer get some mainstream attention.

I know this isn't super recent - I think it was about a month ago. (If someone posted about it on here already, I missed it, and do apologize.) I'm not up on TV shows or celebrities, but I enjoyed watching Amanda Seyfried play and it is fun that apparently the dulcimer got some recognition.  

If they ask you to "jam" ....It's not the strawberry kind......

Thanks all for the comments. I'm only about 45 min north of the Janesville group, and they're quite active and welcoming online. There's a smaller group here in Madison, who are mostly all in the Janesville group as well. During my online chatter with the Janesville group I've identified several other folks near me who want to join up. I've already got an invite to a member's house this weekend to go over a few tunes. The community seems welcoming, relaxed, and just what I'm looking for 👍

Ah, the DAD malady has struck. That is "dulcimer acquisition disorder."  Thankfully  it is not fatal.

Seriously, I have a number of dulcimers. For the music I play I have found a particular song may sound better on one than the other. I have one tuned DAA, one in EBB, one in DAC, etc.  So enjoy adding to your collection. The more you have the more time you get to spend playing and enjoying them all.  The Warren May dulcimers are great instruments and expertly crafted.

Thank you for posting this. I'm also a beginner, and also happen to have 2 very similar dulcimers (though not from the same builder). I think I will do exactly as you mention, and keep them in different tunings. I'm just starting to learn about and practice that, and I will be able to spend less time tuning that way. I can keep one in DAA, which I've used most, ready to enjoy things I already know, and use the other for DAD, and whatever comes next.

 I wistfully think about some day having a flat-headed one......

And then there were three......That's how it starts.

If you are not in a dulcimer group, try and find one.   https://southernwisconsindulcimerclub.com/about/

This group is in Janesville, don't know if it's close to you.

Offer lessons? Offer to stumble along with another novice, learning together? The music may not sound great, but the fellowship is nice....

Hello all,

I have a very "spoiled" problem! Just starting out on the dulcimer with an hourdrop all-walnut model by Warren May that I bought from him last year: 6.5 fret present (as I think all his models have now), currently tuned to DAD. I then fell in love last week with an hourglass poplar model with a lot of green color, absolutely beautiful. It's currently being finished up in his workshop; admittedly an impulsive purchase which now leads to my questions ;)

Obviously I'm a novice and barely know what I'll end up needing/liking. That being said, how do I best take advantage of having two dulcimers by same luthier, each with a 6.5 fret, 4 strings, same length/size, different woods and different shapes? I know the woods will have different warmth/brightness, etc. Maybe keep the poplar in DAA? I'm interested in noter/drone playing although also joining a club nearby. Any thoughts appreciated! I'm quite probably over-thinking this as I don't have the second dulcimer in my hands yet!

PS: every time I need to restring, I wistfully think about some day having a flat-headed one 😉

Thanks Ken for your reply - I can easily obtain bottleneck type slides here where I live, so it's the rod I'm looking for.

Dusty, this is terrific news! I'll make the donation and send you a PM right away.

This is a great thread, and what a great old dulcimer! Beautiful wood too.
Just my 2 cents, but for a fragile old dulcimer like that at 28" scale length and a peghead that will need either bracing or restoring, I would put on melody strings of 0.010 gauge, whether you decide on a C tuning or a D tuning. These slightly thinner strings will not be quite as tight tension on the old instrument.  I might put 0.010 melody, 0.010 or 0.16 middle (Dad/DAA) and a .022 bass. middle. I'm assuming you'll maybe try to put in original type wooden tuning pegs after renovating the peghead. You could go with real nice Whitner viola pegs which would look just like old wooden pegs but would tune like machine pegs, like butter.

Okay, great, thanks! You're certainly a wealth of info about all of this...glad we have connected. I will follow your advice and try those string gauges, and will experiment with tunings, etc. Thanks again!

With a 28" length I think you would do well with 0.012 for the melody string (the one closest to the player), the same gauge for the middle string, and 0.022 or 0.024 for the bass. Your dulcimer does not have a fret between the 6th and 7th frets. Therefore you will need to play in the 1 - 5 -5 tuning. To play the in mixolydian mode you need what we dulcimer builders and players call the 6 1/2 fret. As to accompanying your singing voice, the bass string gives the key. When you tune it to D and the other strings to A, you are in the key of D. Tune the bass to C and the others a fifth above that (G) and you are in C. You can play in E and still keep the other strings at A. You'll need to find what works for you through trial and error. When you get to this point you can start another forum with a question about this as I'm not singer and I'm not the best authority on musical theory as it applies to the dulcimer.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Thanks Ken. Well, I don't know if that's more than I want to know, but it's more than I knew I needed to know! So, I've measured the vibrating string length of my dulcimer, and it looks like just a little over 28" (maybe 28-1/16"?). Given that, would you have any advice as to what tuning I might want to use? I'm not sure how to decide that, but would it relate in any way to my voice range (assuming that I sometimes might want to sing along with my playing)? If so, I have a fairly low range (not sure how to classify it...have never had formal voice training, etc.)...for example, I often sing the bass line in choral songs, and I often end up tuning my guitar down a full step to be able to comfortably sing certain songs (if I don't want to otherwise change keys, etc.)...does that help in any way?

As for the nut & bridge, I agree with you that the Wilcutt example definitely has metal for those two parts, with notches for the strings cut into them, etc. The nut on mine is somewhat worn and chipped, but it is definitely some kind of wood, and it looks very similar to the rest of the wood on the dulcimer (and it also has notches cut into it). (And as I think I said previously, the bridge is missing, so I'm not sure what it was made of.) I think I should be able to fashion some kind of wooden replacements out of the various varieties of hardwood scraps that I have in my shop.

As for moving to friction tuning pegs, I have found some different versions that might work, both on the International Violin Co. website, and on Amazon. I will keep looking around for options before ordering any. And I still might try and make them myself, since I would ideally like to replicate the shape of the knobs on the originals.

Thanks again!

Thanks Nate. I have various hardwoods as well as bone blanks for guitar saddles & nuts that I could maybe use. I also have the reamers, which I use for installing guitar tuners. Will do some online searching for the pegs themselves. 

Thanks again!

Well, in discussing the tuning pegs I forgot all about your other questions. It does look like the nut is made of metal. Perhaps it is a piece of sheet metal (steel)? In the Willicut photo the bridge looks like brass. As far as strings go we need to know the vibrating string length to calculate what you would use. Measure from the inside edge of the to where the strings touch the bridge. You can calculate string size by using the Strothers string calculator. You can find it here . You will also need to know what notes you will use for each string. When Dixon was making dulcimers the accepted standard was C - G - G. Today the standard is D - A - d although many people still play D - A - A (an octave higher than the old standard). Sometimes these tunings are referred to as 1 - 5 -5 and 1 -5 -8 tunings or Ionian and Mixolydian. The former tuning has a scale beginning on the 3rd fret while the latter has the scale starting on the open string. That may be more than you want to know at this point.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

On one hand, if you particularly wanted to install a "zero fret" made of metal that is an option. Common materials for dulcimer nut and bridge are very hard woods, bone, and plastic.

For the pegs, others might be able to provide insight,  but pegs of standard sizes are super cheap and "peg hole reamers" as well as "peg shavers" might be useful tools to use

Mike, I have one of the Hall brand pyrex glass noters that Amazon used to sell. Here is the listing explaining that it is no longer available: Hall dulcimer noter .  That is the exact model I have.  It was given to me when I bought my first dulcimer about 14 or 15 years ago.

It is well made and very pretty.  It produces a very bright tone and slides around like butter on a hot skillet, although my noter skills are pretty poor, so I can't do a good demo. I have trouble avoiding the fret wire.

I never use it.  If you pay for shipping plus make a $10 donation to FOTMD, it is yours.  Send me a personal message if you're interested.  I would package it up and get some estimates on shipping before you have to commit.

Hey fellas. End of the day update here...

I appreciate all of you who have weighed in to help me solve this puzzle.

So, I was able to remove the tuners, by heating up the posts with a soldering iron enough to soften the glue holding the wooden knobs to the shafts, so the knobs could be removed, and then the tuning machines removed from the box. Upon inspection (and touching with the iron), that is definitely lines of solder down the plate of each tuning machine. As I've reflected on it, although I'm new to dulcimers, I find it hard to imagine that this was the original tuner installation...I bet John is right that this was a re-do by some owner of it before it came to our family (although I had thought we were the original owners). I found another Arthur Dixon dulcimer that was sold by Wilcutt Guitars in Lexington, which clearly has the traditional friction tuning pegs (see attached photo)...BTW, this one is numbered 87, whereas mine is 42), and the knob ends on the pegs are identical to the ones on my dulcimer. I can't imagine that mine is the way Mr. Dixon installed tuners on his earlier builds, and then he went back to the traditional friction pegs later. I'm thinking that some previous owner wanted to put geared tuners into it, so they cut off the knobs of the pegs, and mounted them onto the shaft of these geared tuners. And in answer to some of your comments, it appears that the gears were facing down, and the metal rods were soldered to the top side of the plates (and there were no screws used, I guess because there was no way to use screws in the plates themselves). Also, in answer to John's question, yes, the holes do go through to the other side of the tuner box, just like in the Wilcutt example (which also seems to confirm that mine was not the original tuner configuration, because the geared tuners wouldn't have required the holes on the other side of the box). 

All that being said, I think I would like to restore it look more like the one sold by Wilcutt, with the traditional friction tuning pegs. Do you all have a source for such pegs? (I could possibly just make them myself, but may want to buy them.) And thanks, John, for your suggested solution...I may go that route if the traditional tuners don't work out.

Finally, any answers to my other two questions below, about strings and materials for the nut & bridge? Its pretty clear from the Wilcutt example that the nut & bridge are metal, like fret wire...although on my dulcimer, the slots are wider and deeper than typical fret slots, and the nut appears to be a thin slice of wood of some type (the bridge is missing).

Thanks again for any and all continued help!

 screenshot of headstock of another AD dulcimer (#87).jpg - 38KB

Mike, are you asking about a solid glass rod or a cylinder that you put your finger in like you would use for playing slide guitar? If it is the former, do a search for glass stirring rods.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

If nobody has one, or is not interested in selling, the big question is: does anyone still make them? Amazon has some "no longer available" items but that's all I can find on the web. Any help hugely appreciated!

I decided to look at some Dixon dulcimers. Here are links to two photos of Dixon dulcimers:

https://heritagedulcimers.wordpress.com/2021/06/05/arthur-dixon-1897-1978/

https://willcuttguitars.com/products/arthur-dixon-dulcimer-used

Neither dulcimer has tuning machines. The are wood pegs. Could it be that someone else decided to add the geared tuners?

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

It reminds me of the saying "If you do what you know then you'll know what youre doing."

Perhaps this concept was more familiar to the person who installed these tuners so its what they opted for. More than once ive seen people fix instruments in strange ways because it was their first instinct.

I cant imagine what exactly was going through their mind, but it would make sense to me if someone was "winging it."

Thanks, Nate. I see that I didn't pay attention to that in the original post. It seems like an awful lot of work compared to installing them the conventional way. 

Ken 

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Thank you, I appreciate it John!

With that said, I have to admit Ive seen a ton of folks use baking pans for resonators on other instruments and i just started slapping them on dulcimers. Id like to think ive seen a lot of string instruments, but using solder instead of screws is definitely a first for me

Ken if i am understanding correctly, there are no screws. After the machine tuners were placed in the peg box, a metal rod was installed spanning from the scroll to the bridge on both sides of the actual tuning cylinder, and the mounting plate ot the tuners were then soldered to the rods.

I might be misunderstanding, the whole thing is just such a head scratcher to me

Soldering tuners into a metal cage gives new meaning to the phrase "locking tuners" LOL

Just doing some quick "shop think'n"  A thin strip of wood or metal/brass/copper as a cover, mounted flush with the peg box might give it a nice "it was built that way" look? Would help stabilize the tuners in the slot, and cover any mounting screws?

 WIN_20250414_15_22_20_Pro.jpg - 52KB

I think I understand the tuning machines now. It appears that they were placed inside the peg head with the gears on the bottom. The shaft that holds the knob went through the wall of the peg head to the outside. I've never seen that arrangement before. Were the mounting plates of the tuners screwed to the bottom of opening in the peg head?  When I use open gear tuners like that I usually buy them from Folkcraft in Woodburn, IN. McSpadden (The Dulcimer Shoppe) in Arkansas also sells them. You can buy cheaper versions from places like C.B.Gitty or do a search on Amazon.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Bizarre is using bunt pans.....Love yer stuff Nate!

Seriously tho....Looking at the peg head, is it perhaps probable that it started with simple pegs, and this was an attempt to put in machine tuners that "looked" original?  Robert, give a look and see if the peg hole continues on the other side.....

Josephus book of antiquities page 438 b ...under pre Viking design concepts.........

Wow thats the most bizarre system for anchoring tuning pegs that ive ever seen. Is this a method others have seen before?

Thanks again for your all's input.

That makes sense about the sound posts. I think I'll just try and put them back the way they were.

And I may try to restore the tuners, if I can get them out without destroying them. I did take out the one that's missing its knob, and they appear to be just a square plate, with the usual posts & gears, similar to a guitar tuner (see attached photos). And upon closer inspection, it looks like the metal rods that ran the length of the box on each side were soldered to tops of the plates of each tuner (see photos), and the rods stuck into the wood on each end of the box. Seems like a pretty crude (but creative!) way of mounting tuners! Anyway, if I can't make these work, I may try to find some tuners that are similar, and figure out some way to mount them in the tuner box securely.

• If so, do either of you have a source to suggest for dulcimer tuning machines (either new or used/vintage)?

Two more questions...

• Any advice on what to use to replace the bridge & nut (both of which are pretty worn or broken)? I'm assuming I could make my own out of the materials I have...the mounting slots are pretty thin, about 0.050" (as you'll see if you zoom in one of those initial photos)...don't know if that's unusual or not.
• And finally, any advice on what type of strings to use, and any best sources for those?

Thanks again!

 IMG_2217.jpg - 144KB

Both James Edward Thomas and Charles N. Prichard used sound posts in their dulcimers. Thomas installed two post; one around the third fret and the other around the tenth fret. Prichard used one which was a 3/8 inch square at the center of the length of his dulcimers. Why Dixon used four is a mystery.

I'm still trying to figure out what all that stuff is in both peg heads.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

The long thin strips across the bottom helps keep the bottom from splitting, they also provide a thicker area of mounting for the top support posts. Effectively they tie the top and bottom together, transmitting the vibration of the top to the rest of the instrument. They also keep the top and bottom from flexing too much under the tension of the strings and the players pressing down on them. Not unlike the sound post in a violin or cello. Do you "need" all of them, or any of them......maybe. Can they be more of a delicate design instead of "barn beam" style? ? Perhaps you would be fine with just the one near the bridge end?

I know the positioning of the "one little" sound post in a violin/cello can make a HUGE difference in the tone...

As for your ancient viking style tuners......Please let us see how the battle goes......

Thank you John & Ken for your quick responses and great advice! I think I have the tools and wood that I'll need to repair it and reinforce it, etc. I guess my main challenge will be repairing/replacing the tuners, and then I have a question about the bracing.

As for the tuners, I've seen some photos of Arthur Dixon dulcimers that have simple friction tuners, but these are geared (see additional photo attached), even though they have knobs made of wood and seem to be handmade. Are there tuner sets available that would be a close replication of these? Maybe I can salvage the two remaining knobs, and carve the third one needed, and use them with some new machines? But actually, the existing tuners are working pretty well as is, in terms of turning pretty freely (even before any cleaning/lubricating), so maybe I can salvage them, and just make a new knob to replace the missing one. Also, that rod that is sticking out seems to have been what was holding the tuning machines down in the box (with apparently another rod on the other side (which is now missing). Maybe I could figure out a better way to securing these original tuners into the box. Any ideas about that?

Then, to Ken's question about the "supports" that appear to have been installed between the top & back braces...is that a common part of mountain dulcimer construction? I can see how they could offer some more rigidity, etc., but I'm not sure how necessary they are, since the fretboard makes such a stiff "brace" holding everything together, right? I could certainly replace them, if that makes sense (one is missing, which I would have to replace).

Any other thoughts/advice/referrals?

Thanks much!

 IMG_2215.jpg - 281KB

Wow....That peg box looks like it came up from the ocean floor in an old viking ship....

I think [if it was my project] I'd start by cleaning out those broken pegs and other "stuff" in that box, cutting the strings away first. It almost looks as if the string tension was high enough to snap the pegs {rotten?} off without spitting the box? if it is still sound, clean and replace pegs with re claimed  violin pegs, self carved or for "function" , machine tuners...YOUR preference.

The rib crack[s] can be a little tricky, if you only want function, a thin strip of opposing/angled grained wood clamped internally should do the trick. The broken curve on the upper bout is the most challenging, as you need to get it back to the original curve, and reinforce it so it doesn't do it again. Either make a solid piece clamping form using the "good" side as a template, or I have seen using plaster of paris to make a mold of it, making a form perhaps 3-4 inches thick to give something to clamp to.

From what I can see, your top and bottom seem to be intact. Looks like all of it was put together with hide glue, hot water and a 3M pad should clean old glue residue fairly well. Once the old glue is cleaned off of the wood, MY preference is Titebond II, perhaps keeping these repairs from being needed in the next 60+ years...?

 Don't know what your "shop" has for tools and clamps and such. Shoot me a message and I can send you some thin stock for cleats and reinforcement....

Best of luck on your upcoming battle.....

That looks like an interesting project. From your photos it looks like you have most of or all of the pieces you need. Since you have experience, what do you specifically need to know about this dulcimer. The cracks look like they can be repaired with the usual methods; super glue, clamps, and cleats. I've never seen a Dixon dulcimer. The pile of wood pieces appear to be braces for the top which should match up to the light spaces on the underside of the top. There are four light spaces on the bottom which indicated to me that there were supports under the top stretching from the underside of the top to the bottom plate. It looks like these were glued between the bottom and the braces. It would be fun to look inside an intact Dixon dulcimer to see if this is the case. Look in that pile of wood and see if there are four sticks that would work for this. It looks like you are missing on tuning peg. I have no idea what substance is filling the peg head. Please ask specific questions about anything that puzzles you. What other parts do you think you are missing?

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."