Gold Tones have a good reputation as a real solid good sounding affordable banjo. Good choice!


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Those irritated by grain of sand best avoid beach.
-Strumelia proverb c.1990

Well it has been a while since I started this thread, and I was originally debating if I needed to upgrade my learner/entry level Countryman banjo, a resonator backed far East make with no tone ring. True enough it has served me well for learning both picking and clawhammer, but I nonetheless got to the point where I wanted an instrument with more punch.So my New Year gift to me was a Gold Tone Whyte Ladie 250 - I had tried one out at a banjo gathering in January and loved the mellow sound. So when I saw a pristine second hand one on Ebay which originated from Andy Perkins (best banjos in UK!) it was a sign from the gods of old time music that it was meant for me.And the sound is beautifully balanced between attack and a lovely mellow rounded sound. The action and the presence of a frailing scoop has (as I hoped) turned out to be real advantages for developing my playing, and it works really well in the trio I now play in. At last I have a banjo that can hold its own against my friend Kathy and her mighty Taylor guitar!

Last month I went back to Toronto for the Bicycle Show, but my first stop was The Twelfth Fret, where I bought the first decent case for the Orpheum. Of course, I took a few banjos off the wall and tried them. The fretless was fun, and another banjo for $1800 was okay. But there was one that I took down because it looked old. In fact, it was. It was an old Windsor. Know the feeling - that as soon as you've hit the very first note, this one is for real? That's what I got out of this one. The sound was crisp and clear and just sang to me. And it was the cheapest one I checked out. If I'd had the money I would have bought it on the spot, no questions, no problem. Too bad. Add it to the long list of "the ones that got away". Maybe some day the banjo fairy will leave one on my doorstep.Tone is subjective (if you'e not brainwashed into wanting a sound that some people say you should have). It's taken me all these years to appreciate the sound of my old Orpheum, and now I'm trying to work with it, not against it. Of course, the fact that I'm really working at it and finding real progress has a lot to do with it, too!

Paul R.,Having done lots of 'setup tweaking' on both my bicycles and my banjos, it never ceases to amaze me how many similarities I find between fine tuning bikes and banjos. It's rather uncanny. I love tweaking the setup on my banjos!When i first started playing clawhammer banjo, I had banjo fever and felt I needed a banjo for every 'banjo sound' I wanted to produce. I wound up with about 13 banjos, but most of them simply gathered dust and several were unfortunate impulse buys. I Ebayed a few to get rid of the clutter, and now I have 7, one of which I still plan to sell too. My remaining 6 include 1 antique and 5 good playable 'work horses'. Two of those five are fretless. The 5 are played fairly regularly and I think I'll never need to buy any other banjos. I could actually make do with 3 or so, but since I have the 5 good ones I will keep playing them.My point here is that I used to think I needed a certain specific banjo for every distinct sound I was after. Now I've gotten way more laid back and these days I kinda feel like any banjo I grab off the wall will do just fine in any situation. As long as the banjo is set up well and plays smoothly, I'm no longer quite so picky about getting an exact certain 'sound'...now I tend to just say "hey, it's a banjo!" and it is what it is. At least all banjos sound like banjos, and they almost all sound good to me. LOL


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Those irritated by grain of sand best avoid beach.
-Strumelia proverb c.1990

From the posts on The Banjo Hangout, it's clear that a lot of banjo players are constantly trying to change the sound of their banjos, looking for "that elusive sound." I do stuff the inside of mine, mostly to avoid waking my wife when she decides to go to bed early. Other than that, I'm more afraid of losing the sound that I bought. When I bought this banjo, I had narrowed it down to 2 models of the same make. I went back & forth a number of times, and I'm sure I could have been happy with either one. One had an 11" pot with a spun nickle overlay, and had a sparkle to the sound that was really beautiful to hear. The other had a 12" pot, without the overlay. It had a depth and richness that I found captivating. Over a 3 week period, I went back & played both several times. Every time I put the 11" down and picked up the 12", that richness reached out & grabbed me. I ended up with that one, and have never regretted it. That was 9 years ago. If the money would have been available, I might have both, but It took me several years of saving for one, 2 was not an option at the time. Who knows what the future may bring? Seems like one of any instrument isn't ever enough. I think the sparkle of that 11" might just be perfect for the 2 finger playing I've gotten more into the past couple of years. 9 years ago, I wasn't playing much 2 finger, having really gotten more into the clawhammer style. Now, I'm kinda reverting to what I played earlier. I'm fingerpicking all my toys a lot lately. Learning to express my moods by changing my playing styles.Paul

Paul Certo said: It's never too late to start over!Different combinations of instruments have appealed to me, too, Paul. Back in the seventies I thought that Appalachian dulcimer and synthesizer would make a great combination. Go figure.Kate and Anna McGarrigle used a variety of instrumental mixes, even dual clawhammer on "Excursion a Venise" in concert (you can find it on YouTube), with Kate and sister Jane. The Transatlantic Sessions (lots of it on YouTube) feature a variety of North American and British Isles instrumental combinations. Banjo and dulcimer sounds like a great mix. A friend once gave me "The Best of Just Friends", a dulcimer CD by George Haggerty from Vermont, and it's filled with combinations: dulcimer with guitar, tin whistle, concertina, fiddle, bodhran, banjo, mandolin. The Fuzzy Mountain String Band had dulcimer in among all those fiddles and banjos.Hmmm ... How about banjo, dulcimer, and Northumbrian smallpipes?Messing with the banjo could be the musical equivalent of working on your bicycle. The Orpheum has been "tweaked" lately with head tightening and replacing the bridge with the one that came with the banjo when first purchased. If the sound needs to be "plunkified", stuffing something between the head and dowel stick works well. The old metal mute also completely changes the tone.

I play banjo, also. I started with guitar in '66, banjo in '68. But after starting to learn dulcimer in '90,I really got more interested in banjo again after hearing clawhammer players playing with dulcimer players. The combination just feels right to me.Paul

Hey Paul - it is never too late to chip yer penny's worth into a thread on this forum!

I know this is really late, but ...There are some very impressive banjos - and players, of course - posting here. (As a recent member I just got to see this thread.)I've been an on again, off again beginner since the early seventies. I unfortunately got rid of the best bajo I ever owned, built by Jake Neufeld here in Ontario in the late seventies. I had a couple of frailing lessons at the long-gone Toronto Folklore Centre (where I bought the banjo), from Kate Murphy. I wanted soemthing louder and went to a resonator model which I had spruced up at the Folklore Centre, with inlay work by Tony Duggan-Smith. It's the heaviest banjo I've ever picked up - put it on the end of the see-saw with an elephant at the other end and it'll hold its own!Shortly thereafter I picked up an Orpheum Number One, also at the Folklore Centre. (All Orpheums are dated 1915, because they can't trace the serial numbers.)Part (or most) of my inspiration came from being a volunteer at the Mariposa Folk Festival through the seventies and early eighties and seeing lots of great banjo players, from Pete Seeger (no autographs) to old-time players - even lightning-fast bluegrassers.Toronto isn't the Centre of the Universe for clawhammer (although some Torontonians think T.O. is the Centre of the Universe, period), although I found out that a couple of Hogtowners have won categories in the Appalachian String Band Festival.I recently dug out my Orpheum and started practising "for real", using tunes from old Oak Publications books: Clawhammer Banjo, Melodic Clawhammer Banjo, and Old Time Mountain Banjo. I've been looking at video clips on line and have downloaded loads of tabs. Another inspiration has been the banjo demos by Don Zepp, playing tunes on the banjos he sells. After watching him, I was able to work out a version of the "A" part of St. Anne's Reel, which I couldn't see in any of the tabs. Now to get it right!As usual, everyone's three steps ahead of me on sources of instruction. It pays to check all over this site!

Hello--just love banjos and have sixteen of them. I try to record on different ones so folks can hear their voices. There is a Goldtone 5-string cello banjo, a Gibson RB250, Deering John Hartford, Lame Horse Shooting Star, and a Bowlin 1865 fretless on the new CD that's coming out soon.Also--there is my Blue Lion mountain dulcimer and Ron Ewing dulcimette. :) One of my favorite tunes has cello banjo and dulcimette playing together. :)

Liz (Elizabeth) Thacker said: LOL Liz - yes, sorry if I kind of hogged your new baby a bit - it was of course sheer envy on my part especially given that the Saga banjo I had got earlier in December was decapitated by Parcelforce *sniff*See you when the snow thaws!

Yes--a nice simple tab arrangement of it is in the Florida Banjo Tab book which is available through my website. maryzcox.com Also--here is a Youtube of it too. Foggers said:

Mary your banjo playing is a delight. I especially like The Wind that Shakes the Barley. Is there anywhere I can get the TAB for that tune?

Hello,Yes--I've played banjo since I was 12 years old and my Grandad was also a professional banjoist.If you'd like to know more about me and my banjo music, please visit my website. :) maryzcox.com I do usually play at least a couple mountain dulcimer tunes in concert and evidently I play my mountain dulcimer so much in the old time string band style that folks have come up to inquire "What is the difference between a banjo and a mountain dulcimer? They sound so much alike when you play them. " :)

David Beede said: Hi David; that is a really interesting way to tension the head on a gourd - though I guess that Delrin is not exactly a traditional material!!My OH is an amateur luthier having made just 2 MDs after years of tinkering with electric guitars mainly. He now has an idea for a percussion instrument that would need a gourd as the sound box, and it seems impossible to source properly dried gourds here in the UK (weather just too damp I think!)

Foggy - Always glad to talk gourd stuff. I keep meaning to put some building stuff on line but haven't gotten to it. There is a little piece on David Hyatt's site about how I reheaded a banjo for Mike Seeger with a tensioning system I invented that has no metal in it. Here 'tis: http://www.dhyatt.com/craft_how_to_skin_Beede.html Foggers wrote:Hi David - that is so lovely! Have seen you on YT with the gourd banjos, and am really interested in gourd "technology" - will PM you!

Great job Randy. I loved both those tunes and your style too. That's a fine sounding ol' banjo. Did you say you built it or resurrected it? It has a larger head than most of the mountain ones with a wood ring around them. Again, great sound and great tunes.And you're right about the getting old thing. In the playing realm I gave up on virtuosity in favor of variety decades ago. But it seems, if you stick to anything long enough, you either get half way decent at it, or at least eventually you get recognized for endurance!!

David Beede said: Hi David - that is so lovely! Have seen you on YT with the gourd banjos, and am really interested in gourd "technology" - will PM you!

Randy Adams said: Once again Randy - you are great! The sound of that banjo is so right for those tunes.

David I saw a vid of your 1973 box banjo over @ Cig Box Nation...nice box & sounds great! No wonder you build such beautiful instruments!...that's a long time...there's not too much good to be said about getting old...but getting good at your job is one of 'em!So I got my new/old banjo goin'....ended up putting a piece of brass over the fingerboard to brighten up the sound of the 1st string. I recorded a couple of vids today & I would share them with you if you please?I learned Watermelon on the Vine from a Gid Tanner & the Skillet Lickers record....great Georgia band from the 1920's! When I got my banjo to where it was playable the 1st song it wanted to play was this tune...I couldn't think of the title....after I recorded it my son asked me "what tune is that?" & it came to me....it's Nashville Blues, a Earl Scruggs tune. I don't play it in the right style or the right key/mode but it's Nashville Blues allright! Thx for whatching!

Glad to see some banjo action 'round here.I took up ol' time banjo years ago, but then got away from it in favor of dulcimers. I've been building and playing gourd banjos for about five years now and have grown very fond of the mellow round sound they have. Some of mine I string heavy and tune down to D which makes them easy to play along with DAD dulcimer players. The bluesy feel from being fretless also tickles my ear. Here's a tune of mine that I taught to my wife, Julie Johnson's first grade class. They sing on it and illustrated it with some amazing art work. It's one of those "metaphor wrapped in a riddle" songs. Check it out here:

Randy Adams said: Wow Randy - and here is me too meek to tweak the tension on the head of my banjo! That is lovely work and I shall look forward to HEARING it when you post something here or on YT.

Strumelia said: Thanks for the album recommendation Lisa- what a treat! I have the albums Alice Gerrard did with Hazel Dickens so this is a great addition to my collection - just downloaded it.

Foggers said:

Thanks Randy. It is really interesting trying out tunes on different instruments. I think certain tunes just work on a particular instrument. A song from Jean Ritchie that I have always wanted to do is "Sweet William and Lady Margaret". Of course Jean does it on MD but when I listened to it and sang it I could just "hear" an OT banjo accompaniment. That was one of the things that prompted me to go back to the banjo (as I already could play a little fingerstyle on it) and finally work on getting the frailing going!.

Foggers,Listen to the clip of my favorite recently recorded version of "Lady Margaret"- HERE . It's played by Brad Leftwich, Alice Gerrard, and Tom Sauber. Instruments are fiddle and banjo, so it might give you some ideas for playing it on banjo.That whole CD is well worth buying.


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Those irritated by grain of sand best avoid beach.
-Strumelia proverb c.1990

He didn't build Robin..he bought from somewhere.I'm still working on it...can't get volume out of the 1st string....just kinda goes thump....little frustrating. Robin Thompson said:

Did Rodney build the banjo, Randy?The work you've done looks real nice.

Here's what I been doin the last couple days.[IMG] http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i227/randyadams/Picture8.jpg [/IMG]My brother Rodney gave me this banjo a while back & at first I played it and liked it but...it had frets....and a long scale. So yesterday I removed the frets, sanded her down, glued a veneer on the fingerboard, cut 3.5" out of the neck made a 22.5" scale....I like to tune in A & D.....it cracks now!....& I think I got it to where I won't get slivers when I'm playin it!... : )....I'm hoping this banjo will call to me...ya know....think of a song & know right away this is the perfect banjo to play it on.....get in the rotation so to speak.This might be fun!

Thanks Randy. It is really interesting trying out tunes on different instruments. I think certain tunes just work on a particular instrument. A song from Jean Ritchie that I have always wanted to do is "Sweet William and Lady Margaret". Of course Jean does it on MD but when I listened to it and sang it I could just "hear" an OT banjo accompaniment. That was one of the things that prompted me to go back to the banjo (as I already could play a little fingerstyle on it) and finally work on getting the frailing going!.

Glad to hear you got the banjo going Foggers. I'm sure that Countryman will make a fine banjo for you.The banjo & dulcimer are the same for me...I play the exact same notes on both & approach them the same way on most tunes.... a few tunes are instrument specific.

That's so true that learning a second instrument, or a third, actually helps us with all our instruments.I just LOVE tinkering with my banjos! The banjo is the absolute best instrument for tweaking all the mechanical parts on it. TOO FUN!!Great that you took off your resonator and loosened the tailpiece a bit. Try loosening the head just a little bit all around too....like a 1/4 turn per bracket. If it doesn't sound good then put it back again. I find the best sound is when loosening the tailpiece all the way and then tightening it just only enough until it grabs a little....no more. Gives a nice soft bell tone.


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Site Owner

Those irritated by grain of sand best avoid beach.
-Strumelia proverb c.1990

Well I have been persevering with me frailing and an currently working on accompanying Rich my OH when he sings "Little Sadie". I will put up an MP3 when we can get through it without coughing (we are both full of germs at the mo).I have curbed my urge for a new banjo - I have tweaked the sound of my countryman banjo by loosening off the tension on the tailpiece and it is sounding a little more plunky. I am reluctant to tweak the head tension in case I go too far and can't redeem a problem. I have also worked out that the resonator comes of easily anyway as it does not have a flange. See how I sound like I know what I am talking about??? That's cos I did go to the expense of buying a book on banjo construction and maintenance so I can sound all clever now.... Actually, I like to know something about the practical side of any instrument I play- i like to know the basics and be able to tune, change strings and do minor adjustments at least.What seems funny is that it was getting my first dulcimer exactly a year ago that re-kindled my interest in the banjo I had owned for a few years too. I used to find it difficult to move between instruments; it felt like my fingers went kind of dyslexic. But now I think that the skills I pick up on one are usefully transfereable to the others- so I am becoming a better all round musician.

Well you should know that many of the very best old clawhammer banjo frailers use/used resonator banjos.By the way, I have frailing scoops on my banjos, but i have migrated to playing even higher up the neck than the scoops, so they don't do anything for me anyway. ;)The banjo you have is likely just fine for clawhammering....just don't use metal bluegrass picks.


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Site Owner

Those irritated by grain of sand best avoid beach.
-Strumelia proverb c.1990

Strumelia said: I shall see what I can do about a pic. My other instruments are already jealous of the amount of attentions I lavish on my MDs. (We all know our instruments have feelings, don't we?) so it is about time I did pics of the others.It is a resonator banjo more suited to bluegrass. I am finding the idea of a banjo with a frailing scoop on the neck quite attractive because my fingers and thumb just seem to be catching the sides of the frets when I try to play up the neck a little for that more plunky and mellow sound. Gosh, listen to me slowly TALK MYSELF INTO A NEW BANJO !!!

I'd like to see a photo of your "Countryman" banjo- maybe it's just right for clawhammer....let's see it! :) Foggers said:

Of course I can now see that my "Countryman " banjo just aint right at all for clawhammer playing...maybe I need a new banjo from Santa??

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Those irritated by grain of sand best avoid beach.
-Strumelia proverb c.1990

THanks for the replies Lisa and Randy; here is the news...Well my laptop kind of hiccupped on the DVDs, but after threatening it with a hammer, things settled down and the disks play okay.I like Dwight's approach to the right hand rhythm. I had already made a start on the bump-ditty pattern through a book i got a couple of months ago, but when I listen to practice recordings it just sounds too "busy" somehow. Having had a weekend with Dwight's "Just Rhythm" DVD I can see that I need to stop worrying so much about the "ditty" and I am already sounding more like I want to! So that is fun indeed.Of course I can now see that my "Countryman " banjo just aint right at all for clawhammer playing...maybe I need a new banjo from Santa??

So hows it goin Foggers? Learnin how to make banjo noise?... : )... Havin fun?

Foggers, that's great!Dwight Diller was my original banjo teacher about 11 years ago- I took a 3 day workshop of his when i was just starting out.I love his approach to clawhammer banjo- nothing fancy, but heavy on good rhythm. Dwight used to say "The right hand is the meat and potatoes, everything else is gravy."...I love that! ;DWhenever I feel that the banjo world is too frustrating and fussy, I just go back to the basic 'meat and potatoes' of Dwight's philosophy. you couldn't have picked a better learning instructor, in my opinion. Foggers said:

Yippeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!

FInally my long awaited Dwight Diller instructional DVDs have arrived. Gonna have to put the MD down for a couple of days and spend some time frailin' instead.

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Site Owner

Those irritated by grain of sand best avoid beach.
-Strumelia proverb c.1990

Yippeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!FInally my long awaited Dwight Diller instructional DVDs have arrived. Gonna have to put the MD down for a couple of days and spend some time frailin' instead.

razyn said: Wow rayzn - I am deeply envious of your contacts with people who are heroes of mine - Pete and Mike Seeger, Homer Ledford....I have looked at some of the re-enactor/historical society banjo clips on Youtube. There are some fascinating instruments there but I am not sure I could countenance playing one with calfskin and real gut strings. And I know what you mean about the mentality of some re-enactors: I used to do meadieval re-enactment and found some of my companions to be rather in retreat from real life!!

I don't play very often, but I started a long time ago. I have a few old banjos, say 1870-1900 or so, with and without frets -- and one reproduction "minstrel" banjo, made within the past ten years (an eBay coup de foudre). I've been to the Antietam Early Banjo Gathering, twice, and really enjoy the fellowship of those guys even though many of them are certifiable (i.e., dedicated Civil War reenactors). There's a Ning group for Minstrel Banjo, and I was lurking in it about a year before Strumelia started this dulcimer one.My best banjo is an open back S.S. Stewart "Universal Favorite" tenor (a Nashville pawn shop purchase) that Homer Ledford converted to a 5-string for me. He added his special tone ring, as well as making the new birdseye maple neck (fitted with the old inlays), in 1966. One of the earlier Ledford banjos, I guess. He didn't sign it or anything, but I have letters from him when we arranged for it. I swapped him a nice early Washburn mandolin he wanted -- didn't pay actual money for the conversion, but he costed it out at $75. (More than I had paid for his standard dulcimer, in 1963.) I also got Pete Seeger to autograph it, when he did a workshop in Nashville around 1968 -- so now I can't change the dang head. Mike Seeger also played it, not long after that -- guess I should have asked him to write on it too, but we were actually friends, so that just seemed odd.Back in the day, about 1915-20 when Uncle Dave Macon was a wagoner and there was not yet a radio show in Nashville (the Grand Ole Opry), my paternal grandfather was one of his employers. (I just checked the Wikipedia article about Uncle Dave, and it discusses The Macon Midway Mule and Wagon Transportation Company.) So my dad and my grandmother had some anecdotes about him. I knew two of his sons, but he had died when I was about twelve -- and he had long since been a professional entertainer, rather than a wagoner. I got into folk music a few years later. I do have a banjo that Uncle Dave broke in about 1892, when he fell off a friend's porch in Lascassas. He gave it to the boy who lived there -- who got the broken neck fixed, and about 70 years later I bought it from him. And I also got some good banjo tunes from him (Elbert F. Pilkington).Dick

I, too, play a little clawhammer banjo although I've sold off most of my banjos. I've still got a Clifford Glenn fretless banjo and will probably buy another fretless banjo this year, most likely a Bart Reiter or Mike Ramsey fretless. I'm also looking at the mountain-style fretless banjos made by John Huron based on those of Stanley Hicks. My inspirations include Dwight Diller, Frank Proffitt, Sr., and Frank Proffitt, Jr.Greg

Hi Jill - my friend has a Goldtone 5 string that is so heavy I can only hold it long enough for one song, then it just has to go! It is interesting swapping around on different instruments; I think it helps me to build my knowledge in transferring from one to another. Hope you get a lighter tenor banjo and get stuck in!

Hi Randy thanks for that link - I have checked out her other YouTube clips and there is some very handy tutorial stuff there about the basic right hand rhythm, which is exactly what I need to work on. I really like her style - there is something just so steady and light-hearted about her playing. Have added her to my YT subscriptions.

Here Foggers check out this lady....she plays slow & clear & credits DD instructions. I like her rythym....& check out her other u-tubes..... http://www.youtube.com/groundhogpeggy

Yes I was impressed when I checked out the YouTube clips; and his basic instructional DVD is called "Rhythm". I think it is exactly where I need to start as all my instrumental skills have been more melodic/harmonic (e.g. fingerstyle guitar) so it is the rhythm that I need to work on. His teaching tyle is simple - no TAB, clear explanation and good close ups of both hands - exactly what I need! So I have placed an order.Thanks for your advice Lisa - will let you know how I get on with it!

Hi Jane,I have never seen Dwight's DVD's, but I took a weekend workshop with him when i was just starting out.He mainly emphasizes rhythm which is good. I like the West Virginia tunes he specializes in , and his recordings are such a pleasure to listen to- nice easy pace and clear to hear what he is doing- never fancy or fussy. I love how he plays, and I have several of his great music cd's, such as "Just Banjo" and Banjo '99, or some such titles.


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Site Owner

Those irritated by grain of sand best avoid beach.
-Strumelia proverb c.1990

Hi Lisa thanks for the suggestions - could not get the link to work for Pat Costello's clips but have found Dwight's website and have a had a catalogue emailed to me from Elaine Diller, so I think I shall get a DVD from them once I have checked out the clips on Youtube.Jane

Hi Foggers,I play clawhammer banjo. I was lucky enough to have a decent teacher to get me started- Dwight Diller.I highly recommend his DVD's and recordings.Frankly, because I had a live teacher and banjo playing friends to help me, I don't know a lot about visual aides for learning the clawhammer stroke.But...have you checked out some of Pat Costello's online instruction? He has a lot of clips for beginners I believe. Check some here: Pat's clips I don't agree with some of his banjo philosophies, but perhaps his basic stroke instruction can help you if you have not seen it already.


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Site Owner

Those irritated by grain of sand best avoid beach.
-Strumelia proverb c.1990

Getting a 5 string banjo about 4 years ago was my entry into US folk and old time music, leading more recently to the MD.I have neglected the banjo until recent months and have set my mind to finally mastering the clawhammer technique. I don't have any teachers nearby, I have pored over the free lessons on YouTube and various books/CDs but I think I need an instructional DVD so that I can really see it in action, slow it right down, and build up really slowly (impatience is one of my vices when it comes to learning new skills!). Can anyone recommend a good one to get me started?
updated by @foggers: 02/17/19 05:56:53AM