Help with restoring a 1962 Arthur Dixon dulcimer?

Robert Owens
Robert Owens
@robert-owens
14 hours ago
21 posts

Thanks Dan!

And thanks Ken for the suggestions on the instruction books, and the tip on the DAA scale. I'll check out those books!

Ken Longfield
Ken Longfield
@ken-longfield
14 hours ago
1,235 posts

Since the recommendation is to play in the DAA tuning I looked through my library of dulcimer instruction books. Some early MelBay books like Fun with the Dulcimer and Cripple Creek Dulcimer are good places to start. Another book that has lots of familiar tunes is this one: The Best Dulcimer Method - Yet! Those books can get you started. The DAA scale begins on the 3rd fret. The 10th fret is the octave of the third fret. Knowing that you should be able to start picking out some simple tunes.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Dan
Dan
@dan
14 hours ago
192 posts

Well done!

Robert Owens
Robert Owens
@robert-owens
14 hours ago
21 posts

Thanks Richard!
And thanks, Strumelia, for your P.S below...just saw it...I will post the video. Thanks for the suggestion and invitation!

Richard Streib
Richard Streib
@richard-streib
17 hours ago
257 posts

Beautiful work. What a nice traditional sound. Thanks for sharing.

Robert Owens
Robert Owens
@robert-owens
17 hours ago
21 posts

Ha! Thanks Strumelia! While I was composing that last message, you beat me to it! Thanks so much for all the great suggestions for instructional resources. I look forward to diving in to them!

Robert Owens
Robert Owens
@robert-owens
17 hours ago
21 posts

Thanks, Strumelia...I appreciate all of your advice and ideas that helped me get there. The last few years of developing my post-retirement hobby of building guitars, and restoring/repairing a variety of other (sometimes oddball!) stringed instruments (banjolele, autoharp, Tranjo, Weissenborn guitar, etc.), and having a shop and materials with which to do so, certainly came in handy. But finding this community was the key to this project!
As I just asked Ken, any suggestions for instructional materials would be welcome!

Strumelia
Strumelia
@strumelia
17 hours ago
2,333 posts

Robert, I'm sure you'll get some good tips on instruction books. You may also enjoy browsing through my free blog specifically for beginner noter/drone style players. It includes lots of tips for improving strumming and rhythm, over 30 easy tabs for traditional songs, and help in understanding how to retune and play on the various common modes. DAA (the D being the low bass string) is in my opinion the best tuning to start playing in for those dulcimer players who fret only the melody string.

Here's a selection of blog posts on beginners: https://dulcimer-noter-drone.blogspot.com/search/label/beginner
And some of my posts with free tab: https://dulcimer-noter-drone.blogspot.com/search/label/noter-drone%20TAB




--
Site Owner

Those irritated by grain of sand best avoid beach.
-Strumelia proverb c.1990
Strumelia
Strumelia
@strumelia
17 hours ago
2,333 posts

P.S. I'd love for you to post your video among our main video section for all to enjoy more prominently in the future here on fotmd (in addition to it being within this thread)... you just add it from your profile page to 'videos'.. look for a plus sign+ to add a video and description.




--
Site Owner

Those irritated by grain of sand best avoid beach.
-Strumelia proverb c.1990
Robert Owens
Robert Owens
@robert-owens
17 hours ago
21 posts

Thanks Ken...your input made all the difference. Now if you can recommend some good instruction books (or other resources) for beginners, I'll learn how to play this thing!

Strumelia
Strumelia
@strumelia
17 hours ago
2,333 posts

Oh my, I am so very impressed with the beautiful job you did in bringing that poor dulcimer back to its former 'glory'.  It is indeed glorious!  What a mess that peghead was, i really can't believe how well you repaired and restored this instrument. worthy    And it sounds just lovely!




--
Site Owner

Those irritated by grain of sand best avoid beach.
-Strumelia proverb c.1990
Ken Longfield
Ken Longfield
@ken-longfield
19 hours ago
1,235 posts

Robert, you did a fantastic job on restoring your Arthur Dixon dulcimer. It has that original mountain sound that I like so much. Thanks for sharing the video. I'm glad that you found us here and that we could offer some helpful advice.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Nate
Nate
@nate
yesterday
393 posts

Robert Owens:
Thanks Nate, for your note that I saw by email, but for some reason isn't showing up here in the forum.

 

Apologies Robert, I accidentally deleted it while trying to edit it. Thank you for reposting it 


updated by @nate: 04/22/25 02:41:55AM
Frank Dudgeon
Frank Dudgeon
@frank-dudgeon
yesterday
15 posts

Very nice! Congratulations.

Robert Owens
Robert Owens
@robert-owens
2 days ago
21 posts

Hello all. I'm pleased to report back to you...finally...success!
I basically followed all of your advice about the string height issue, remaking the bridge, etc., and I've strung it up, tuned it up, and it's sounding (and looking) pretty great to me! I'm very pleased with how it turned out. The action is still a little high, but still seems pretty playable to me, and the intonation is surprisingly good. Even the tuning pegs seem to be keeping it in tune, at least for now (it took a lot of futzing with them, but I finally got them working pretty well). See attached photos...I also made a little video of me telling about the dulcimer & it's restoration, and even me playing it a little bit so you can see what it sounds like. Here's the link to that:

(if the link doesn't work for you, let me know).
Thanks again to all of you for your help over the past week or so...I couldn't have gotten it back in this good of a shape without your input and advice!

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Ken Longfield
Ken Longfield
@ken-longfield
2 days ago
1,235 posts

Yes, that makes sense. You need to make the touch point of the string on the bridge just a little higher than the tail so that the string is vibrating from the bridge and not the tail piece. So you are right that you will need to make a new bridge.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Robert Owens
Robert Owens
@robert-owens
2 days ago
21 posts

Thanks Ken. That's helpful. I'm thinking that before modifying the original wood on the tail end of the dulcimer, I may just try and string it up with all three strings up to pitch, and play it some, and see how it does. But I assume that in order to even do that I will need to replace the bridge that's now too low for the strings to even touch...right? I guess I can replace it with a bridge high enough so the strings just barely break over it (including some minimal slots). Does that make sense?

Ken Longfield
Ken Longfield
@ken-longfield
2 days ago
1,235 posts

I worked on a dulcimer that has a similar problem. When I put the straight edge on the top of the fret (these were regular frets across the whole fret board) I discovered that the section after the strum hollow to the tail was 1/4 inch higher that the rest of the fret board. That back was perfectly flat. I trimmed off that quarter inch, cut a new slot for the bridge, the slots for the strings, etc. and wound up with a great playing dulcimer for the customer. You never know what idiosyncrasies you'll find on some of the these instruments. I'm not suggesting that this is your problem. You noted that the tail piece on your dulcimer is higher than the fret board so you would either need to trim it down level or live with higher action. The question is do you want to live with the historical value of the Dixon dulcimer or would you rather have a dulcimer that can be played finger picking style rather than noter style. I've found that many older dulcimers have higher action, not just for noter style playing, but also the maker doesn't have to level the frets that way.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Robert Owens
Robert Owens
@robert-owens
2 days ago
21 posts

Thanks Strumelia. That's helpful. I'll be considering the lighter strings, especially now that I've identified some bow in the fretboard (see below).

Thanks Nate, for your note that I saw by email, but for some reason isn't showing up here in the forum. I'll copy it here just to keep everything in one place...you said, "First thing is first, i would recommend detuning the instrument. It is possible that the tail end is being pulled upward by the string tension. Perhaps check with a straight edge."
So I did check with a straightedge, laid on the tops of the frets, and I do note some bow in the fretboard, such that the 7th fret is below the bottom of the string by about the thickness of the nickel plus the dime on top of it (since we're using that measuring system for now!). I didn't really need to detune, since I've only put the middle string on it so far, for the purpose of making these initial adjustments to the nut & bridge height, and I haven't even tuned it up to pitch yet. So, that being said, once I do install all three strings, and tune them up to pitch, I'm wondering what that will do to my fretboard bow. Whether or not the bow changes, what are your all's thought about how to address the problem? Thanks!

Strumelia
Strumelia
@strumelia
2 days ago
2,333 posts

Robert Owens:

One more question for you (or for anyone)...since my dulcimer is designed with the middle string to be over the frets (along with the melody string), I assume there are times when you would fret the middle string, and perhaps play chords with those two strings, right (assuming I'm playing with my fingers, and not a noter)?

 

From your photos, the middle string is 'barely' over the frets... more only over the rounded ends of the frets. This is fairly common in noter-designed instruments, and is simply to allow for enough of a flat surface for the frets... but it's not intended that the middle string actually be fretted on the fret ends. I do not believe the middle string is intended to be fretted. Perhaps some other makers of traditional dulcimers can chime in on this.

Again, I might suggest slightly lighter gauge strings on this old and somewhat fragile instrument, especially if you intend to tune it to the key of D.




--
Site Owner

Those irritated by grain of sand best avoid beach.
-Strumelia proverb c.1990
Robert Owens
Robert Owens
@robert-owens
3 days ago
21 posts

Hello...me again.
SO...I've been working on the dime & nickel method of setting the height of the nut & bridge. It went well starting on the nut end, and I got the height down very close to the dime beside the first fret. I stopped there to work on the bridge, and thinking I might play it some after that, knowing I could come back and work on both the nut & bridge some more, if needed.
Anyway, when I proceeded to work on the bridge, I was gradually working my way down to the height of a nickel resting on the 7th fret, and before I realized it, I had taken it down below the height of the end of the dulcimer itself where the strings pass over it from where they are attached (see attached photo). When I realized that, I checked again with the nickel on the 7th fret, and saw that the string is still a good bit higher than the nickel (in fact, it's about the height of the dime stacked on top of the nickel). So, obviously, reducing the bridge any more at this point is useless. 
Could this mean that the builder meant for the strings to be that high (the height of the end of the dulcimer), and so he would have perhaps built the bridge basically the same height at that?
Or some other explanation?
Other thoughts on what to do at this point?
Thanks!

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Robert Owens
Robert Owens
@robert-owens
3 days ago
21 posts

Makes good sense, Nate. Thanks for clarifying that point. Being new to the dulcimer, I'm not sure what feel I like, but from what I've read, it seems that the overall goal is for the height to be low enough to play comfortably without buzzing, right?

One more question for you (or for anyone)...since my dulcimer is designed with the middle string to be over the frets (along with the melody string), I assume there are times when you would fret the middle string, and perhaps play chords with those two strings, right (assuming I'm playing with my fingers, and not a noter)?

Nate
Nate
@nate
3 days ago
393 posts

With that said though, I think it's best to simply start with the nut and bridge too tall, and then slowly bring them lower until you get the feel you like, with the range of 0.3mm to 0.8mm between the bottom of the string and the top of the crown of the first fret being a general guideline


updated by @nate: 04/20/25 03:10:31PM
Nate
Nate
@nate
3 days ago
393 posts

Robert Owens:

Thanks to all of you for the additional advice...that all makes sense to me.
Only remaining question as I thought about it a little more is, using the dime measuring method at the first fret, it seems that its usefulness would depend partly on how high your frets are, right? Or maybe all dulcimer frets are pretty much the same height (pretty low, speaking as a guitarist & guitar builder)?

 

Robert that is correct. Using a dime is most effective on instruments with mandolin fretwire. I use jumbo fretwire, which has a crown height that is actually taller than the thickness of a dime. Its a useful trick to avoid needing gauges, but  cant be done with taller fret crowns. the actual distance between the crown of the first fret and the bottom of the string could be as low as 0.3 mm and as high as 0.8mm. If you're planning on playing your instrument at a lower string tension, you may want to consider around 0.5-0.6 mm 


updated by @nate: 04/20/25 02:52:19PM
Robert Owens
Robert Owens
@robert-owens
3 days ago
21 posts

Thanks to all of you for the additional advice...that all makes sense to me.
Only remaining question as I thought about it a little more is, using the dime measuring method at the first fret, it seems that its usefulness would depend partly on how high your frets are, right? Or maybe all dulcimer frets are pretty much the same height (pretty low, speaking as a guitarist & guitar builder)?

Strumelia
Strumelia
@strumelia
3 days ago
2,333 posts

The dulcimer has 3 strings, and the frets are mostly only under the melody string. This dulcimer was designed to be played noter style, with fretting only the melody string and letting the middle and bass strings ring open.
As you mentioned, the orig nut slots positioned the strings so that the melody is centered over the frets, but there is a little extra space between the melody string and the middle string. (in other words, a little more space between the melody and middle string, and a little less space between the middle and bass string). This is on purpose, in order to avoid the end of your noter (or your finger, if you are fretting with a finger) from touching or bumping into the middle string while playing. On all my noter style instruments, I ask for that extra space, rather than positioning all the strings equal distance from each other. It gives 'extra grace' allowance while fretting the melody string. I used to play pretty fast with my noter, and what with varying noter angles as I play on different parts of the fretboard (up to the 10th or 12th fret sometimes), there's a danger of touching the middle string with my noter tip and making unpleasant sounds/muting/buzzing if that happens. The tiny bit of extra spacing for the melody string allows for this and to me at least it is a big advantage having that leeway. This is a logical thing to do particularly if the frets are under the melody string only, clearly indicating the noter/drone playing intention.




--
Site Owner

Those irritated by grain of sand best avoid beach.
-Strumelia proverb c.1990
Ken Longfield
Ken Longfield
@ken-longfield
3 days ago
1,235 posts

I've use the method that John suggests except I've always measured with the dime on the saddle side of the first fret. I'm not sure it really makes too much difference which side of the fret it is on. For my dulcimers intended to be played noter style I usually raise the string height a little.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

John Pettreemusic
John Pettreemusic
@john-petry
3 days ago
51 posts

Correct....I can't claim credit for the "hack"....but it's nice, simple, and worth a heap more than the .15 cent investment.........

Robert Owens
Robert Owens
@robert-owens
3 days ago
21 posts

Hey, I like that approach! I've got digital calipers and all that fancy stuff, but I like this more...thanks! (But just to clarify, when you say "before the first fret" for the dime, I assume you mean not on top of the 1st fret, but on the fretboard, right before it...right?)

John Pettreemusic
John Pettreemusic
@john-petry
3 days ago
51 posts

I've heard this before [from Skip perhaps...] but a dime just before the first fret, and a nickel on top of the 7th. Do the dime [nut] first, then attack the bridge. As you are probably aware, it's a lot easier taking off not enough than taking off too much.....

Robert Owens
Robert Owens
@robert-owens
3 days ago
21 posts

Hello all. And thanks again for all of your help so far.
I'm happy to report that I have restored the dulcimer to pretty good shape, basically taking it apart and putting it back together again (using Titebond glue), so it feels pretty sturdy. I was able to fix the cracks, which I have reinforced with cleats, etc. I have also gotten rid of the bizarre tuning system, and have found some wooden pegs that that I have been able to make work for now, and I have gotten just a basic set of D'Addario EJ64 strings to start with (which gives me two 0.012 gauge strings for the melody & middle, and a 0.022 for the bass). And finally, I was able to make a new nut & bridge out of some ebony that I had on hand. 
SO...now I'm at the point of setting it up, and I have some questions about that. My main questions are about string spacing and nut & bridge (and string) height. I have found various opinions online about those subjects, but I thought I'd ask here for perhaps some more experienced voices. 
Just a reminder, if you saw the photos I posted originally (of mine and the one sold by Wilcutt), this dulcimer is just 3 strings, and the frets do not extend all the way across the fretboard. As I look at the Wilcutt example (see attached photo), it looks to me like the melody & middle strings are spaced about as far as they can be on the available fret length, and that the middle string is slightly closer to the bass string. Is this about what I should be shooting for in terms of spacing?
And as for nut & bridge (and string) height, I've seen various opinions about what it should be, ranging from the string height at the nut being 0.015-0.030" above the fret crown at the first fret, to the saddle being 1/16" above the 1st fret and 1/8" above the 17th, etc., etc. What say you?
Thanks!

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Robert Owens
Robert Owens
@robert-owens
3 days ago
21 posts

Thanks Strumelia. I thought I had replied to you the other day, but don't seem to see it here, so will repeat it here. I appreciate your helpful suggestions about string gauges, tuning pegs, etc. Now that I have basically taken apart and put back together the instrument, using Titebond glue, I feel like it's pretty sturdy and not as fragile as it had been. So I've ended up starting with just a set of D'Addario EJ64 strings (which I could get cheap and free shipping from StewMac, who I order a lot from), which gives me two 0.012 gauge strings for the melody & middle, and a 0.022 for the bass. And for the pegs, I did want to at least start with the original type of wooden friction pegs, to take it back closer to its original configuration...I may upgrade later. So I was able to find some inexpensive ones online that I was able to make work for now. Now I'm at the point of setting it up, and I have some questions about that, so I'll ask them in my next post, to everyone. Thanks for any additional advice! 

Strumelia
Strumelia
@strumelia
one week ago
2,333 posts

This is a great thread, and what a great old dulcimer! Beautiful wood too.
Just my 2 cents, but for a fragile old dulcimer like that at 28" scale length and a peghead that will need either bracing or restoring, I would put on melody strings of 0.010 gauge, whether you decide on a C tuning or a D tuning. These slightly thinner strings will not be quite as tight tension on the old instrument.  I might put 0.010 melody, 0.010 or 0.16 middle (Dad/DAA) and a .022 bass. middle. I'm assuming you'll maybe try to put in original type wooden tuning pegs after renovating the peghead. You could go with real nice Whitner viola pegs which would look just like old wooden pegs but would tune like machine pegs, like butter.




--
Site Owner

Those irritated by grain of sand best avoid beach.
-Strumelia proverb c.1990
Robert Owens
Robert Owens
@robert-owens
one week ago
21 posts

Okay, great, thanks! You're certainly a wealth of info about all of this...glad we have connected. I will follow your advice and try those string gauges, and will experiment with tunings, etc. Thanks again!

Ken Longfield
Ken Longfield
@ken-longfield
one week ago
1,235 posts

With a 28" length I think you would do well with 0.012 for the melody string (the one closest to the player), the same gauge for the middle string, and 0.022 or 0.024 for the bass. Your dulcimer does not have a fret between the 6th and 7th frets. Therefore you will need to play in the 1 - 5 -5 tuning. To play the in mixolydian mode you need what we dulcimer builders and players call the 6 1/2 fret. As to accompanying your singing voice, the bass string gives the key. When you tune it to D and the other strings to A, you are in the key of D. Tune the bass to C and the others a fifth above that (G) and you are in C. You can play in E and still keep the other strings at A. You'll need to find what works for you through trial and error. When you get to this point you can start another forum with a question about this as I'm not singer and I'm not the best authority on musical theory as it applies to the dulcimer.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Robert Owens
Robert Owens
@robert-owens
one week ago
21 posts

Thanks Ken. Well, I don't know if that's more than I want to know, but it's more than I knew I needed to know! So, I've measured the vibrating string length of my dulcimer, and it looks like just a little over 28" (maybe 28-1/16"?). Given that, would you have any advice as to what tuning I might want to use? I'm not sure how to decide that, but would it relate in any way to my voice range (assuming that I sometimes might want to sing along with my playing)? If so, I have a fairly low range (not sure how to classify it...have never had formal voice training, etc.)...for example, I often sing the bass line in choral songs, and I often end up tuning my guitar down a full step to be able to comfortably sing certain songs (if I don't want to otherwise change keys, etc.)...does that help in any way?

As for the nut & bridge, I agree with you that the Wilcutt example definitely has metal for those two parts, with notches for the strings cut into them, etc. The nut on mine is somewhat worn and chipped, but it is definitely some kind of wood, and it looks very similar to the rest of the wood on the dulcimer (and it also has notches cut into it). (And as I think I said previously, the bridge is missing, so I'm not sure what it was made of.) I think I should be able to fashion some kind of wooden replacements out of the various varieties of hardwood scraps that I have in my shop.

As for moving to friction tuning pegs, I have found some different versions that might work, both on the International Violin Co. website, and on Amazon. I will keep looking around for options before ordering any. And I still might try and make them myself, since I would ideally like to replicate the shape of the knobs on the originals.

Thanks again!

Robert Owens
Robert Owens
@robert-owens
one week ago
21 posts

Thanks Nate. I have various hardwoods as well as bone blanks for guitar saddles & nuts that I could maybe use. I also have the reamers, which I use for installing guitar tuners. Will do some online searching for the pegs themselves. 

Thanks again!

Ken Longfield
Ken Longfield
@ken-longfield
one week ago
1,235 posts

Well, in discussing the tuning pegs I forgot all about your other questions. It does look like the nut is made of metal. Perhaps it is a piece of sheet metal (steel)? In the Willicut photo the bridge looks like brass. As far as strings go we need to know the vibrating string length to calculate what you would use. Measure from the inside edge of the to where the strings touch the bridge. You can calculate string size by using the Strothers string calculator. You can find it here . You will also need to know what notes you will use for each string. When Dixon was making dulcimers the accepted standard was C - G - G. Today the standard is D - A - d although many people still play D - A - A (an octave higher than the old standard). Sometimes these tunings are referred to as 1 - 5 -5 and 1 -5 -8 tunings or Ionian and Mixolydian. The former tuning has a scale beginning on the 3rd fret while the latter has the scale starting on the open string. That may be more than you want to know at this point.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Nate
Nate
@nate
one week ago
393 posts

On one hand, if you particularly wanted to install a "zero fret" made of metal that is an option. Common materials for dulcimer nut and bridge are very hard woods, bone, and plastic.

For the pegs, others might be able to provide insight,  but pegs of standard sizes are super cheap and "peg hole reamers" as well as "peg shavers" might be useful tools to use

Robert Owens
Robert Owens
@robert-owens
one week ago
21 posts

Hey fellas. End of the day update here...

I appreciate all of you who have weighed in to help me solve this puzzle.

So, I was able to remove the tuners, by heating up the posts with a soldering iron enough to soften the glue holding the wooden knobs to the shafts, so the knobs could be removed, and then the tuning machines removed from the box. Upon inspection (and touching with the iron), that is definitely lines of solder down the plate of each tuning machine. As I've reflected on it, although I'm new to dulcimers, I find it hard to imagine that this was the original tuner installation...I bet John is right that this was a re-do by some owner of it before it came to our family (although I had thought we were the original owners). I found another Arthur Dixon dulcimer that was sold by Wilcutt Guitars in Lexington, which clearly has the traditional friction tuning pegs (see attached photo)...BTW, this one is numbered 87, whereas mine is 42), and the knob ends on the pegs are identical to the ones on my dulcimer. I can't imagine that mine is the way Mr. Dixon installed tuners on his earlier builds, and then he went back to the traditional friction pegs later. I'm thinking that some previous owner wanted to put geared tuners into it, so they cut off the knobs of the pegs, and mounted them onto the shaft of these geared tuners. And in answer to some of your comments, it appears that the gears were facing down, and the metal rods were soldered to the top side of the plates (and there were no screws used, I guess because there was no way to use screws in the plates themselves). Also, in answer to John's question, yes, the holes do go through to the other side of the tuner box, just like in the Wilcutt example (which also seems to confirm that mine was not the original tuner configuration, because the geared tuners wouldn't have required the holes on the other side of the box). 

All that being said, I think I would like to restore it look more like the one sold by Wilcutt, with the traditional friction tuning pegs. Do you all have a source for such pegs? (I could possibly just make them myself, but may want to buy them.) And thanks, John, for your suggested solution...I may go that route if the traditional tuners don't work out.

Finally, any answers to my other two questions below, about strings and materials for the nut & bridge? Its pretty clear from the Wilcutt example that the nut & bridge are metal, like fret wire...although on my dulcimer, the slots are wider and deeper than typical fret slots, and the nut appears to be a thin slice of wood of some type (the bridge is missing).

Thanks again for any and all continued help!

Ken Longfield
Ken Longfield
@ken-longfield
one week ago
1,235 posts

I decided to look at some Dixon dulcimers. Here are links to two photos of Dixon dulcimers:

https://heritagedulcimers.wordpress.com/2021/06/05/arthur-dixon-1897-1978/

https://willcuttguitars.com/products/arthur-dixon-dulcimer-used

Neither dulcimer has tuning machines. The are wood pegs. Could it be that someone else decided to add the geared tuners?

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Nate
Nate
@nate
one week ago
393 posts

Ken Longfield:

Thanks, Nate. I see that I didn't pay attention to that in the original post. It seems like an awful lot of work compared to installing them the conventional way. 

Ken 

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

 

It reminds me of the saying "If you do what you know then you'll know what youre doing."

Perhaps this concept was more familiar to the person who installed these tuners so its what they opted for. More than once ive seen people fix instruments in strange ways because it was their first instinct.

I cant imagine what exactly was going through their mind, but it would make sense to me if someone was "winging it."

Ken Longfield
Ken Longfield
@ken-longfield
one week ago
1,235 posts

Thanks, Nate. I see that I didn't pay attention to that in the original post. It seems like an awful lot of work compared to installing them the conventional way. 

Ken 

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Nate
Nate
@nate
one week ago
393 posts

John Pettreemusic:


Bizarre is using bunt pans.....Love yer stuff Nate!


 


Thank you, I appreciate it John!


With that said, I have to admit Ive seen a ton of folks use baking pans for resonators on other instruments and i just started slapping them on dulcimers. Id like to think ive seen a lot of string instruments, but using solder instead of screws is definitely a first for me rofl

Nate
Nate
@nate
one week ago
393 posts

Ken Longfield:

Were the mounting plates of the tuners screwed to the bottom of opening in the peg head?  

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

 

Ken if i am understanding correctly, there are no screws. After the machine tuners were placed in the peg box, a metal rod was installed spanning from the scroll to the bridge on both sides of the actual tuning cylinder, and the mounting plate ot the tuners were then soldered to the rods.

I might be misunderstanding, the whole thing is just such a head scratcher to me

Nate
Nate
@nate
one week ago
393 posts

Soldering tuners into a metal cage gives new meaning to the phrase "locking tuners" LOL

John Pettreemusic
John Pettreemusic
@john-petry
one week ago
51 posts

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Just doing some quick "shop think'n"  A thin strip of wood or metal/brass/copper as a cover, mounted flush with the peg box might give it a nice "it was built that way" look? Would help stabilize the tuners in the slot, and cover any mounting screws?

Ken Longfield
Ken Longfield
@ken-longfield
one week ago
1,235 posts

I think I understand the tuning machines now. It appears that they were placed inside the peg head with the gears on the bottom. The shaft that holds the knob went through the wall of the peg head to the outside. I've never seen that arrangement before. Were the mounting plates of the tuners screwed to the bottom of opening in the peg head?  When I use open gear tuners like that I usually buy them from Folkcraft in Woodburn, IN. McSpadden (The Dulcimer Shoppe) in Arkansas also sells them. You can buy cheaper versions from places like C.B.Gitty or do a search on Amazon.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

John Pettreemusic
John Pettreemusic
@john-petry
one week ago
51 posts

Bizarre is using bunt pans.....Love yer stuff Nate!

John Pettreemusic
John Pettreemusic
@john-petry
one week ago
51 posts

Seriously tho....Looking at the peg head, is it perhaps probable that it started with simple pegs, and this was an attempt to put in machine tuners that "looked" original?  Robert, give a look and see if the peg hole continues on the other side.....

John Pettreemusic
John Pettreemusic
@john-petry
one week ago
51 posts

Josephus book of antiquities page 438 b ...under pre Viking design concepts.........

Nate
Nate
@nate
one week ago
393 posts

Wow thats the most bizarre system for anchoring tuning pegs that ive ever seen. Is this a method others have seen before?

Robert Owens
Robert Owens
@robert-owens
one week ago
21 posts

Thanks again for your all's input.

That makes sense about the sound posts. I think I'll just try and put them back the way they were.

And I may try to restore the tuners, if I can get them out without destroying them. I did take out the one that's missing its knob, and they appear to be just a square plate, with the usual posts & gears, similar to a guitar tuner (see attached photos). And upon closer inspection, it looks like the metal rods that ran the length of the box on each side were soldered to tops of the plates of each tuner (see photos), and the rods stuck into the wood on each end of the box. Seems like a pretty crude (but creative!) way of mounting tuners! Anyway, if I can't make these work, I may try to find some tuners that are similar, and figure out some way to mount them in the tuner box securely.

  • If so, do either of you have a source to suggest for dulcimer tuning machines (either new or used/vintage)?

Two more questions...

  • Any advice on what to use to replace the bridge & nut (both of which are pretty worn or broken)? I'm assuming I could make my own out of the materials I have...the mounting slots are pretty thin, about 0.050" (as you'll see if you zoom in one of those initial photos)...don't know if that's unusual or not.
  • And finally, any advice on what type of strings to use, and any best sources for those?

Thanks again!

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Ken Longfield
Ken Longfield
@ken-longfield
one week ago
1,235 posts

Both James Edward Thomas and Charles N. Prichard used sound posts in their dulcimers. Thomas installed two post; one around the third fret and the other around the tenth fret. Prichard used one which was a 3/8 inch square at the center of the length of his dulcimers. Why Dixon used four is a mystery.

I'm still trying to figure out what all that stuff is in both peg heads.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

John Pettreemusic
John Pettreemusic
@john-petry
one week ago
51 posts

The long thin strips across the bottom helps keep the bottom from splitting, they also provide a thicker area of mounting for the top support posts. Effectively they tie the top and bottom together, transmitting the vibration of the top to the rest of the instrument. They also keep the top and bottom from flexing too much under the tension of the strings and the players pressing down on them. Not unlike the sound post in a violin or cello. Do you "need" all of them, or any of them......maybe. Can they be more of a delicate design instead of "barn beam" style? ? Perhaps you would be fine with just the one near the bridge end?

I know the positioning of the "one little" sound post in a violin/cello can make a HUGE difference in the tone...

As for your ancient viking style tuners......Please let us see how the battle goes......

Robert Owens
Robert Owens
@robert-owens
one week ago
21 posts

Thank you John & Ken for your quick responses and great advice! I think I have the tools and wood that I'll need to repair it and reinforce it, etc. I guess my main challenge will be repairing/replacing the tuners, and then I have a question about the bracing.

As for the tuners, I've seen some photos of Arthur Dixon dulcimers that have simple friction tuners, but these are geared (see additional photo attached), even though they have knobs made of wood and seem to be handmade. Are there tuner sets available that would be a close replication of these? Maybe I can salvage the two remaining knobs, and carve the third one needed, and use them with some new machines? But actually, the existing tuners are working pretty well as is, in terms of turning pretty freely (even before any cleaning/lubricating), so maybe I can salvage them, and just make a new knob to replace the missing one. Also, that rod that is sticking out seems to have been what was holding the tuning machines down in the box (with apparently another rod on the other side (which is now missing). Maybe I could figure out a better way to securing these original tuners into the box. Any ideas about that?

Then, to Ken's question about the "supports" that appear to have been installed between the top & back braces...is that a common part of mountain dulcimer construction? I can see how they could offer some more rigidity, etc., but I'm not sure how necessary they are, since the fretboard makes such a stiff "brace" holding everything together, right? I could certainly replace them, if that makes sense (one is missing, which I would have to replace).

Any other thoughts/advice/referrals?

Thanks much!

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John Pettreemusic
John Pettreemusic
@john-petry
one week ago
51 posts

Wow....That peg box looks like it came up from the ocean floor in an old viking ship....

I think [if it was my project] I'd start by cleaning out those broken pegs and other "stuff" in that box, cutting the strings away first. It almost looks as if the string tension was high enough to snap the pegs {rotten?} off without spitting the box? if it is still sound, clean and replace pegs with re claimed  violin pegs, self carved or for "function" , machine tuners...YOUR preference.

The rib crack[s] can be a little tricky, if you only want function, a thin strip of opposing/angled grained wood clamped internally should do the trick. The broken curve on the upper bout is the most challenging, as you need to get it back to the original curve, and reinforce it so it doesn't do it again. Either make a solid piece clamping form using the "good" side as a template, or I have seen using plaster of paris to make a mold of it, making a form perhaps 3-4 inches thick to give something to clamp to.

From what I can see, your top and bottom seem to be intact. Looks like all of it was put together with hide glue, hot water and a 3M pad should clean old glue residue fairly well. Once the old glue is cleaned off of the wood, MY preference is Titebond II, perhaps keeping these repairs from being needed in the next 60+ years...?

 Don't know what your "shop" has for tools and clamps and such. Shoot me a message and I can send you some thin stock for cleats and reinforcement....

Best of luck on your upcoming battle.....

Ken Longfield
Ken Longfield
@ken-longfield
one week ago
1,235 posts

That looks like an interesting project. From your photos it looks like you have most of or all of the pieces you need. Since you have experience, what do you specifically need to know about this dulcimer. The cracks look like they can be repaired with the usual methods; super glue, clamps, and cleats. I've never seen a Dixon dulcimer. The pile of wood pieces appear to be braces for the top which should match up to the light spaces on the underside of the top. There are four light spaces on the bottom which indicated to me that there were supports under the top stretching from the underside of the top to the bottom plate. It looks like these were glued between the bottom and the braces. It would be fun to look inside an intact Dixon dulcimer to see if this is the case. Look in that pile of wood and see if there are four sticks that would work for this. It looks like you are missing on tuning peg. I have no idea what substance is filling the peg head. Please ask specific questions about anything that puzzles you. What other parts do you think you are missing?

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Robert Owens
Robert Owens
@robert-owens
one week ago
21 posts

I have a 1962 Arthur Dixon mountain dulcimer, from Whitesburg, KY, that has been in my family since it was built. It has a fair amount of cracks and other damage, and am hoping to restore it to playing condition. Although I've restored guitars and other stringed instruments, this is my first attempt at restoring a mountain dulcimer, so I need some advice, and possibly some parts. I will attach some photos here. Anybody out there who could help? Thanks!

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updated by @robert-owens: 04/21/25 04:57:55AM