Forum Activity for @skip

It's not necessarily a kit. It may be a modified kit, made from scratch or with made from a variety of purchased parts.

( large hole was bored in the scroll, and a rounded-off plug of wood was glued into it.)

yes, but not all the way through - Do kits do the scallop raised fretboards? Lots different from a regular kit.

(eliminated the nails)

I think the nails were there to hold the 3 strings close together the 2 melody & the middle string -  maybe for playing with a noter. The Bass was where it belonged. 

Nice catch, @ken-longfield! I guess they don't call you "eagle eyes" for nothing!

That scroll design is unique in my experience.  Looks as if a large hole was bored in the scroll, and a rounded-off plug of wood was glued into it.

(the nut is installed backwards) Not sure Ken if you meant besides sanding to also turn the nut around or switch out with the bottom bridge but I did turn it around and those two things seems to take care of  things. 

Thanks again guys,

m

Still the mystery of the kit, it does seem to have the leaves of Cripple Creek and the same nut & bridge but not the head scroll (circle on the sides - different) or the raised fretboard, or wooden knobs - hmmm

As far as I am concerned, there is no difference between a dulcimore and a dulcimer. They are different names for the same instrument. C.N. Prichard call the instruments he manufactured "The American Dulcimer." J. E. Thomas called the instrument he made a dulcimer. As to where the name originated, it is anybody's guess. One theory is that mountaineers familiar with the King James Bible new the list of instruments in Daniel. One instrument on that list was dulcimer. Since no one knew what a dulcimer was, they adopted the name for their instrument. (Biblical scholars think the instrument called "dulcimer" is really a reed instrument like a clarinet.) Strumelia already mention that the name may have derived from the Latin for sweet (dulce) and the Greek for sound or song (Melos). Who knows for sure? Pretty much all of the early scholarly literature and much of popular literature refers to the instrument as "dulcimer."

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

"Dulce melos" is French with Greek/Latin roots, meaning "sweet song".  There was an old key-hammered zither called a dulce-melos or douchmelle in the 15th century.  

IIRC, "dulcimer" came to prominence in the King James Bible translation where it was incorrectly used as a term for a wind instrument. Also found (again mis-used) in the Samuel Taylor Coleridge poem Kubla Khan -- "In Xanadu did Kubla Khan a stately pleasure dome decree...

Dan Cox has been the leader in assigning the term dulcimore (I spell it dulcemore just to be contrary) to those Appalachian fretted zithers built originally prior to the Dulcimer Revival -- in particular those instruments detailed in L. Allen Smith's  landmark thesis and book A Catalogue of Pre-Revival Appalachian Dulcimers

On that particular dulcimer, the nut is installed backwards. When it was built slots.should have been cut in the nut to space the strings. That would have eliminated the nails. I would sand down the bottom of the nut so that it is not so high and cut slots in the nut. You want the slots deep enough for the strings to ride on top of the zero fret.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

I think I would check the tuning before doing anything. Check using the 0 fret as the starting point then using the nut as the starting point. The frets should only be correct using one or the other. There is a significant difference in string length there. It may have been set up to use a slide, as in dobro style

Marg, I'll let the builders answer that question.  I would think that if the distance between the 0 fret and all the strings were the same, you might consider sanding the bottom of the nut.  But if that distance varies, you might also need to deepen the slits.

The good news is that you don't have to be so precise to the left of the 0 fret. If the frets (including the 0) are set up correctly, they should come off the 0 fret and the action and intonation should be good.

(the strings should touch the 0 fret)

Would I slit the nut or sand the bottom to lower it so the strings touch the 0 fret? I'm better at sanding some off the bottom, don't that.

Thanks Dusty,

Yes Cedar Creek, cripple Creek but the head scroll is different & it has the raised scallop fret board. 

Don't need who made the dulcimer but what kit it's may be from - and back in the 90's if that is different then kits now.

I can't help identify the maker of the kit, but I would bet those little nails by the nut are to help space the strings appropriately, since the can come in at any number of angles off the tuners.

Yes, the strings should touch the 0 fret.  The strings should vibrating between the 0 fret and the bridge.  There should be no space between the strings and the 0 fret.

I've seen those leaves and hummingbirds on several dulcimers, not just Cedar Creek.  It looks nice in general.

Someone's grandfather made this dulcimer sometime maybe in the 90's from a kit.      Can anyone tell who's kit it's made from? The case has a McSpadden sticker on it but that doesn't necessary mean it's their kit. Also there are leaves & hummingbird more like Cedar Creek.  Lots of photos and a raised scallop fret board - hope these clues help.

Questions also:

Why are there little nails to hold the strings in place up at nut?

The strings coming off of the nut, are they suppose to ride over the 0 fret (touch or above)? Maybe the slits were not cut into the nut - therefore high action and off a bit up at the 6+ fret. (I place a small stick under the strings up at 0 fret - that helps the tuning up the fret board - so maybe I just need the strings to ride over the 0 fret?)

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Hear, hear!  Bravo, Dan!

The Latin root 'dulci' means sweet. Nobody knows who exactly invented the words dulcimer or dulcimore. It goes far back in time, to medieval references to hammered dulcimers. 'Dulcimore' is simply one of various old fashioned variations of names for the same or similar instruments.

Right, Dan! So many quaint old names for mountain dulcimers were in use years ago in the US.   Indian walking stick, dulcerine, duck slammer, even sometimes just called a Music Box.
I first noticed the particular name 'dulcimore' being used much more frequently by Dan Cox just a few years ago. Before that (for the 30 years i have studied and discussed dulcimers), we all simply talked about 'traditional mountain dulcimers' and 'modern dulcimers'. 'Dulcimore' rarely came up except in online conversations where we were listing quaint old fashioned historic or regional names for our instrument.
Whether Dan intended it or not, I consider him to have spearheaded a movement where now it seems to be pretty much standard procedure to refer to traditional mountain dulcimers as 'dulcimores'.  Since it's handy to use as a shorter name than constantly saying or writing 'traditional dulcimer', and has a lilting quality, I'm all for making things simpler when discussing our favorite instrument.  But I do think that Dan deserves the credit for 'reviving' the name 'dulcimore' into now common usage and understanding.

It's what you were referring to when you said: "...that I could just count up a few frets to make that tab work"

(The +3 tab conversion really works best)  Sorry, but what does that mean?

Use a DAd tab & count up 3 frets on melody? So, if it's a 2 I would play a 5? Same as a DAA tab

or - use a DAA tab & count up 3 frets, so a 3 I would play on a 6?

1)  No- the standard 'reverse tuning' of DAA would be ADA... reversing the middle and bass strings, NOT doing anything to the melody string. In both DAA and ADA, your tonic note would still be the note of D. (found on one of the drone strings and on the melody string at 3rd fret.)

2)  I don't know what you consider to 'standard tab'... for what tuning? 
Easiest way to test all this: Play it while doing your counting up thing and see if it sounds right, and if you have all the notes you need for the tune. My bet is that it won't translate well if you are fretting on all strings and chording. If that's the case, then retuning to an optimal tuning for the tune and the tab will be the easiest solution.

The +3 tab conversion really works best if you only or mostly play/fret on the melody string (drone style playing). It's more complicated when you fret notes on all strings and/or play chords. You can try it, but I have no idea how it'll sound.

A tuning can often play tunes in more than 1 mode. That's why we are not technically correct in saying "dorian tuning" for instance. What I try to say these days, which is more correct, is that "this tuning is great for playing dorian tunes". The purpose of 'tunings' is to make it easier to play various kinds of tunes. A particular tune might be easier to play in DAG than DAC, for example. You'd have all the notes you need in places that are easily available depending on your style of playing. This is particularly important on non-chromatic instruments like the dulcimer, which is typically 'missing' certain frets.

Hope this helps!

Strumelia,

Looking at your Noter & Drone Blog - Lots of info - could reversing tuning of DAA be the same as AAd 

(Tonic/home note which is on fret #4.) means d is 4 up from A - I still don't understand whats standard tab i have that I could just count up a few frets to make that tab work

Hi

I just ran across a tab (from Carolyn Brodgnisku 'St. Kilba's Lullaby' playing with 'Send in the Music') I tuned to this and tried it out, easy to tune my bass down to 'A. It did sound like bagpipe tuning. 

I usually play melody/chord in DAd/DAA/DGd/CGc etc.. Lately I have been learning how to strum down & much on the melody in AEA (the 50yr. old red dulcimer, I just finished working on) 

As I was just starting to try different tabs, I played a DAA tab on the bass string & again on the middle. 

(Tonic/home note which is on fret #4.)   If I can take my DAd tab & count up 3 & turn it into a DAA tab - does this mean I would count up to 4 for this tuning and would I need to play on the A string, or could I play on the d string?

(dorian tunes) Is that what this tuning is - Dorian?

Thanks, Strumelia - I love how I keep discovering new ways in playing the dulcimer

@carla-maxwell & @ocean-daughter If the weather's fit, we'll all be able to play a tune or two outdoors!  

For the places on Earth with drought and fire/threat of fire now I hope they get the opportunity to be playing indoors on a rainy (not flooding) day.  

Happy strumming, friends!  

Marg that appears to me to be a tuning one would use to play in the lonesome-sounding Dorian mode.

Are you playing the melody on the melody (d) string when in that tuning? And... are you playing in chording style, or in drone style? (drone style meaning you are not fretting the middle or bass string). 
I do have a couple of tabs on my noter drone blog for dorian tunes.  Basically, it's like playing in aeolian except further up the fretboard, and thus you have several extra available notes below the Tonic/home note which is on fret #4.

IMHO  Makeshift instruments are one thing, and Traditional instruments, particularly dulcimers/mores another thing entirely.

Nothing wrong with makeshift -- "necessity is the mother of invention", after all.  That's how instruments were invented -- plucking rhythms on an archer's bow string is the ancestor of all stringed instruments, hollow logs the ancestor of drums, rocks or sticks clicked together the ancestor of all rhythm instruments.  Makeshift or improvisational music making is a multi-thousand year old tradition in it's own right.

Traditional, in the dulcimer sense, is a specific definable set of characteristics which separate pre-1960 instruments from later ones --  in particular how the dulcimer has changed in the past 50+ years.

The Ozarks have at least one Traditional dulcimore -- the so-called Indian or Ozark Walking Stick or Cane --  which can be more or less described as a narrow teardrop shape with sharp corners at the widest part of the bout rather than curves.  Some describe it as a Coffin shape.  That instrument was invented as a specific design by John Mowhee (or Mawhee) back during the Civil War.  Like other instruments of the era it has the same characteristics as other Traditional dulcimores.

On the topic of defining a trad dulcimer vs a contemporary one, my early experiences with dulcimers long before I started playing or building were those that old timers out in the Ozarks played. These were very folksy instruments made out of all kinds of creative materials. I was led to believe that this followed a tradition of makeshift instruments built by their ancestors out of a necessity for music. All instruments from fiddles to banjos to basses to guitars were built this way. Fence staples or fishing line, broom wire/tie wire, old posts/stakes and recycled boxes or random pots, pans, and cans.

I have definitely noticed that those who follow all sorts of different traditional designs tend to prefer alternate terms to 'dulcimer' which seem to imply that the instrument will have a style that is in some way or another not like a contemporary dulcimer. The oldest dulcimers I have personally seen in the Ozarks are very improvised, which I assumed to be characteristic of early dulcimers.
For what its worth, call it a fretted plucked box zither or a hog fiddle, but Ive always enjoyed the Jerry Rockwell coining of a 'musical possibility box.' Still I'd wonder if the dulcimers I make, which are in the style of my somewhat trashy ancestors who loved up-cycling, would be considered traditional by others. It does follow a very old musical tradition, but perhaps not the one most closely related with dulcimer specifically.

That's the spirit of it! Good on ya! It's been cold and raining here in Daylesford, AU, for weeks and my fingers are crossed that the weather is good enough to be outside that day.

I'm going to start telling people I play the Fence Scorpion. 

We have more of a front stoop than a porch, but I'll figure out a way to be out there. 

If I am tune to say AEA I can play DAd tabs, does anyone know if there are any standard tabs for an A'Ad tuning? (Just tuned the D in my DAd down - base D down to A')

I guess the practicalities do get in the way a bit!
This makes me think of all the articles shared on here about dulcimer building workshops in schools. I have spent a lot of time working on ways to make dulcimers as inexpensively as possible. I have helped a couple of hitchhikers to build cardboard dulcimers which, other than having to buy a can of polyurethane that lasts for several, cost ~7$ to make(3 loose strings 1$ each, three eyehole screws as tuners, 1.50$, 2 foot piece of red oak 2.50$) Id love to get to a point with editing where I can make videos on producing good sounding dulcimers for under 30$. We really are blessed to play an instrument that doesn't necessarily  require anything fancy to produce.

Friends, I have the solution you crave for tuning multiple dulcimers for children:  Use zither pins for tuners, and give tuning wrenches only to the instructors!  Tune all of the dulcimers ONCE, and let the classes begin!

Add the tuning issue to the cost of purchasing and maintaining multiple dulcimers helps to explain why the recorder is the choice of most schools.  It is much less costly and is ready to play right out of its pouch.

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Ahh, yes. You are right. ( those pesky details)

One drawback to using string instruments in large groups of children is getting past issues of tuning multiple instruments quickly.  Imagine trying to tune 30 dulcimers before everyone is "in-tune".  The typical elementary music class is about 30 minutes long.  Trying to tune an instrument in a noisy room can be extremely difficulty.  Trying to tune 30 dulcimers in a  room of 30 children is nearly impossible.

Add the tuning issue to the cost of purchasing and maintaining multiple dulcimers helps to explain why the recorder is the choice of most schools.  It is much less costly and is ready to play right out of its pouch.

I agree that a dulcimer should replace the recorder as a child's first introduction to music. Anyone at all can have immediate success. Recorders are hard to get to point where the music is pleasing to a kid. The trouble is that recorders (or "songflutes", what my children got) are cheap, and can be kept by the kid. Or, if you go back far enough to the 60's we had "Tonettes" that lived in a cardboard box until passed out for temporary usage. 

I'd recommend one over a ukulele for a kid being introduced to strings/music.

The label is inside the lower left f-hole. I think the piezo pickup is on the outside, Ken. I'm not quite that clueless.  ;-)

Trouble is this dulcimer is "too common" -- hourglass, scroll head with up-right tuners, f-holes, string pins on the tail block are all VERY common attributes.  Label?  That white bit isn't a label -- it's a stick-on piezo pickup for plugging into an amp. 

Since it includes a bunch of songbooks, the pickup,  and a case, if the price is in your range, just buy it.  If it doesn't sound as nice as you want, you can always re-sell it on Craigslist and get your money back.  

Unfortunately, that's all I have. I was hoping to identify a brand. Obviously, it could be a custom one-off, but I thought someone might recognize it by brand if a more or less common model. I note the tuners, the scroll head, the satin finish, the f-holes, and the fact that the pins are on the bottom rather than on the front as most Folkcraft dulcimers seem to be. It belonged to an older lady (son selling) who cannot play anymore and comes with a fairly large number of songbooks, so I am thinking it got some serious use and is not just some junk instrument. As you might expect, I am very curious to see what it might be. Just because it looks rather plain does not mean it is not a fine instrument. By the same token, I have played some recently built instruments from people you would recognize that were beautiful, but somehow not quite right in how they played and sounded.

There's not a lot to go on here, Bridge.  Doesn't instantly remind me of any particular maker.  Dulcimer-building is all about putting one's own unique style and design to a piece.  If you get any further photos they might help!  Sorry.

Can anyone ID this dulcimer from just this photo? It has popped up for sale on Craigslist by someone who doesn't know much about dulcimers and is not very responsive to questions (out of town, can't check label, etc), but it's available for sale. I am guessing from what I have been told that this instrument is perhaps 20 years old. I was surprised to find that there are not many photos on the net of dulcimers with f-holes. Appears to be made of walnut.

Any guesses? Just a tiny bit of label visible there.

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