Forum Activity for @johnnyb

Thanks for all the advice! 

I ended up buying one of Bill Bergs 5-string instruments. Only slightly more than I was looking to spend, but it came with a nice case, a noter, picks, Korg tuner. Happy so far! Only questions I have so far:

1)I can't find many examples of five string setups online, and the ones that do reference two bass strings, but mine came with the same size string as the melody strings next to the bass string. Normal?

2) I also can't find many resources for pure noter playing. Everything seems to be chords, which I am loving, but I still want to try noter playing. Is all noter playing pretty much by ear?

As it's set now, I am more concerned on having clear notes as I fret - it is not so high to be uncomfortable. I may sand it a bit more, I was just giving myself time to decide. Also in changing the strings I put on heavier ones (& a different brand) deciding now if I wanted to go a bit lighter on the melody. 

Thanks for all your help,  the Intonation  was the concern at first but it is right on now. 

Glad to hear its going well! Clearly you are aware of the nickel and dime technique for setting action, and as others have said having the action a bit high is perfectly fine but may be less comfortable, and too low of action can produce buzzing. Typically  setting the action with a nickel will not be low enough to produce buzzing unless either the fingerboard is uneven or some frets are raised. If you have a straight edge which you can use to verify that the fretboard is perfectly consistent, as it should be, then you should feel safe reducing the bridge enough that the string just barely touches the top of a nickel sitting on top of the 7th fret. If it is comfortable to play and well intonated then this is not really necessary, although I will say that I personally really like the action as low as I can get it.
-Nate

(Now that you have conquered set-up, the next thing is you will start building dulcimers.)

  I feel good about learning to care for a dulcimer but - not there yet on building. Would love to watch someone from start to finish but I'm better at drawing one then building one.

Morning

Marg, I'm glad to hear that it went well for you. A little high isn't too bad if it doesn't hurt your fingers. You can always sand it down a little more later if you need to. The biggest danger is string buzzing if you go too low. Then you would either have to make a new nut or shim the old one. Now that you have conquered set-up, the next thing is you will start building dulcimers.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

OK, careful, careful.

Sanded down - still space between nickel & string but much easier to fret, so will leave it here for now.

What would have taken someone maybe an hour or two to set up, has taken me 3 days but I learned a lot and took my time - checking with you guys as I went.

Team effort - Thanks again

Yes, of course you can sand the bridge. Be careful, though, and go little by little. When you were working on the nut you really couldn't mess up since the zero fret was going to set the height of the strings down on that end of the dulcimer. You don't have that safety net when you work on the bridge.

Thanks Dusty, I was so busy working up at the nut - just wanted to make sure I could still sand the bridge.

Sorry, nut is sanded down, strings are on the 0 fret, it's the bridge (bottom end) I'm considering sanding.

So, I can sand the bridge to help  the action. I really think the dulcimer was set up for a noter

Marg, if the strings are really sitting on the zero fret so that the strings are vibrating between the zero fret and the bridge, the nut will have no effect on the action.  You might consider sanding down the bridge, however.  

One last question, I hope:

Nut sanded, new strings & tone is good  off the 0 fret -

But the action is still a bit too high - can I sand the bridge down just a bit?

Thanks again Gail. I'm still in the process of shopping for a new dulcimer & am looking into all I can. Your info helps so much with the New Harmony instruments. I have a well made, very pretty Ron Gibson Barbara Allen style baritone that I've dragged everywhere & enjoyed for almost 5 years but now these old hands need something easier to play & a 25" VSL. I'll never sell my Gibson but probably won't play it as much as I did before.  I'm looking forward to driving down to New Harmony for the Dulcimer Chatauqua on the Wabash in October too. 

As far as just 3 strings - I always remove one when I've had dulcimers with the double melody string.  I do a combination of strumming and cross picking and find it much easier without the double melody string.  I think people who play noter/drone style like the double strings more because of the sound.

Two of mine have the accutune feature - instead of just a movable bridge you have 3 different places to fine tune the strings on the bridge.  It's supposed to help fine tune the upper notes.  Honestly, I haven't really used the feature a lot.  Once I get the strings in tune they seem to be pretty accurate up the fretboard.  They do make custom instruments.  All 3 of mine are custom made with exactly what I wanted and they were very nice to work with.

I know of a fully chromatic dulcimer he built in 2007 that is number 217. 

Thanks Nate, I have it sanded way down and tiny slits cut in the wooden nut for the middle string  & using the nails for the melody & the bass.

All Good, thanks so much everyone

m.

Thank you Lisa. I've missed the Gebhard Woods festivals the last few years so I'm sorry I didn't go to see these. Gail Webber just responded to my private email to her & gave me a lot of info on how/why she loves the New Harmony. She actually has 3 of them but she also said she plays in an orchestra so she sounds like a pro player. It was so nice of her to give me such a good response...its just what I wanted to know. I think the instruments look really nice hanging from pegs when you see that in the website store pics. I wouldn't store it that way at home...no pegs. LOL Thanks again.   Barb

As I recall from a conversation at the New Harmony booth at Gebhard Woods a few years back, the hole in the head is so you can hang the dulcimer from a peg.

If only the hole in my head was so convenient :-)

@sunvalleylaw, don't feel you have to abandon techniques you developed playing the guitar. I also came to the dulcimer from the guitar, and when I bought my first dulcimer I got a 12-pack of those pointy, triangular, Herdim picks.  I never took to them, gave them away at a festival, and went back to the same Tortex picks you use.  I tend to use the green .88 ones when there is a little more slack in the strings and the blue 1.0 ones when the strings are nice and tight.  If you are only strumming across all the strings, those big, pointy, floppy picks are fine.  But if you want to flatpick and play long single-note runs, you need a bit more control.

Since noter/drone players can handle higher action than those of us who fret with our fingers, a lot of dulcimers are made with higher action.  By all means, do what you can to get the action as low as possible without causing any strings to buzz.

It seems you are well on your way to ensuring you are comfortable playing your instrument.  That will certainly allow you to progress quickly.

@dusty-turtle Starting to make a little headway on the song. Bit by bit.  Along the way, loosened the strings and worked the saddle out, took down the action just a bit.  Still seems high as compared to what I am used to.  But will take my time in working it down.  The tuning for this song makes the strings feel pretty slack as compared to what I am used to feeling, so I am getting used to fretting and pick action as well.  My normal pick holding style is very guitar oriented, so am learning how I want to adapt that.  I am finding for now that my .88 Dunlop Tortex feels best.  I just cannot get comfortable and happy with floppy picks, and the sharp pointed triangle ones seem too sharp for my tastes.  But this will continue to evolve.  Tried to rip the edge of my fingernail on my index finger off a time or tow playing with this.  A symptom of my sometimes sloppiness in pick holding. 

Bottom line, learning this and learning to make the sounds I want with clean tones and effect is good for me, . . . And fun!

 E682BF0F-789C-409F-9C68-6EC8533E3A9F.jpeg - 319KB

I’ve just learned that Gary Gallier, John’s son-in-law has an early Stockard that has wooden pegs.  

Hi Ken...thank you. Agree, I saw the 'sold' dulcimer descriptions with VSL but none gave dimensions. They have 4 different series of instruments: Brio, Whale Tail, Private Reserve, Pinnacle Series. I couldn't find anything about what the differences or specs are for each of those series & seeing that would really help me know where to start. There's nothing wrong with the design...I just am curious about why there is a hole in the peg head.  I'm also curious what/how the Accutune module I see near the saddle is/works. There's nothing wrong with 3 strings only but, again, I'm just curious. You seem to think I'm challenging the design innovations but I'm not .... I'm just curious to know & thought perhaps there was a New Harmony owner who could tell me. General info like that is helpful for anyone considering getting one. It'd be easier to read that on the website to get a good concept of what to select vs arranging a Zoom meeting to get answers. 

When I wrote them an email asking about getting one made within my price range, etc. since everything was 'sold', I got a response from Rick Gooden and he is more than willing to Zoom meet so we can discuss woods, tuners, etc. so they do make custom orders. The overall design is determined but that's much the same as anywhere else but there isn't a 'take it or leave it' attitude as you describe. They seem like nice people who work with their customers.  

I'd still be interested in hearing from anyone who owns one and know what they think about them. I don't know anyone other than a dulcimer teacher, Dona Benkert, who said they sound lovely. 

Why do they have a hole in the tuning head?  Why only 3 strings?  Because that is New Harmony owner Rick Goodin's design.

He does not build custom dulcimers to your specifications -- he builds dulcimers to his specifications, and you can choose to buy one or not.  He seems to have plenty of buyers waiting for his next creation.

I just now went to New Harmony's website, and every dulcimer there has the VSL listed. 

He actually only has 3 instruments available at this time -- all the other instruments shown are sold.  He posts sold dulcimers to give you some idea of what to expect from the combination of design and wood choices he chooses to make.

A dulcimer teacher told me about this brand & how lovely they sound. Can anyone tell me why there is a hole in the peg head? It's so unusual. What/how do you use what they call an Accutune module? I was surprised they don't have any specifications about depth, length, etc. except on 'Sold' instruments. It sure leaves a lot of questions to be asked if you are considering them. I also noticed they don't seem to make anything other than a 3 string instrument. So many makers offer 3 or 4 equidistant so this was a surprise. Thanks.

If it sounds good with the VSL starting at the 0 fret, hypothetically the instrument should work fine with just the nails and no 'nut' as a spacer. If you would like the wood nut to be there for aesthetic reasons, you could reduce it's height and make nice deep grooves in the top where each of the strings sit and use it as a spacer. The grooves would serve to hold the melody and bass string in place and keep them from pulling toward the middle of the fretboard due to tension, since the tuning pegs are near to the middle of the headstock, and the strings will want to move in a straight line from the bridge toward their tuning pegs unless something holds them at the edges of the fretboard, the way the nails do, past the zero fret. Alternatively if the nails serve the purpose of spacing the strings well enough, you could even sand the nut so low that it doesnt touch the strings and is simply there for aesthetics if you wanted to.

Does anyone know how many dulcimers John Stockard built? I picked this one up and it is super nice to play and sounds amazing.

 djpitiis8secexsmeopy.jpeg - 29KB

Looks like it could have been an early John Stockard?  

( feel comfortable sanding the nut way down)

  There was another nut in the case, no slits. I sanded that one down, saving the wooden one till I would see if I could get it to work. Hey, Hey - right on from open string to the 7th YEA!!!! Off some up pass 14 but I don't go that hi & if I would - think I would just use a different dulcimer. I even sanded the top more rounded like Nate said, for better pressure on the string.

  I like the wood better, since I don't have anything else white but good for now. I will need to replace the strings, they got a work out today. I'm leaving the nails in since I would have small holes to fill and I don't want to change what the builder did too much. 

Thanks for all the help, I'm slow but learning much from y'all

m.

( the intonation is correct at the nut or at the zero fret)

Intonation is correct at the zero fret, not at the nut

Nate asks all the right questions here.  You might try simply removing the nut and allowing the zero fret to do what it's supposed to do.  Then you could check the intonation and the action.  If the dulcimer functions correctly, you can feel comfortable sanding the nut way down, since, as Nate says, it's only purpose is to space the strings correctly.

Well you could potentially put a sliver of wood, folded paper, or something else directly on top of the zero fret to raise it 1/16 of an inch or so but this would only be a temporary fix to the issue of the fret being too low and would lose some sound quality and volume, and would also most likely result in slightly too high of action on the first couple of frets.

With that being said I'm still not sure what to make about the interesting set up with the strings resting on the nut or 'spacer.' I call it a spacer because typically the zero fret would function as the 'nut' or the end of the scale length of the vibrating strings; the small piece of wood between the zero fret and the headstock just serves to hold the strings the correct distance apart. Since this dulcimer also has nails for this purpose and the strings were resting on the nut rather than the zero fret, this instrument is intriguing to me.

I'm really not sure why the spacer was so high or why it was backwards. Were you able to get the strings in solid contact with the zero fret or hesitant to sand that much off? 

Also have you checked whether the intonation is correct at the nut or at the zero fret, as skip suggested?

Can't wait to learn more!
-Nate

(the builder just shim something over the 0 fret)

What could act as a shim for over the 0 fret?

Could I maybe place something right in front of the 0 fret, creating another 0 - like the size of a tooth pic? I have sanded the nut but hesitant to sand anymore.

( found that how rounded off the side of the nut facing the headstock is can affect the pressure )

This was good info.

That video is super clear, isn't it?  By the way, that practice of using the same chord shape and moving it around the fretboard is what Joellen calls "parallel" chords. It is an easy approach to learn (well, the left hand is, anyway), since the fingers stay in the same shape and you just have to move them up and down the fretboard.

i’ve been reading a little bit and also watching a little bit and now have my dulcimer tuned to this tuning and I am working on this piece as a starting point to start learning my way around. Fun!

Wow this dulcimer leaves me curious about many things. The combination of a zero fret, nut, and nails to space the strings is very bizarre to me since the strings did not touch the zero fret and the nut was not spacing them. It seems like all the nut is really doing is preventing the strings from touching the zero fret. I would think having that big of an inaccuracy at the very beginning of the fretboard would change the vsl and ruin the intonation. Obviously this can be easily fixed by reducing the height of the nut with sanding, but it does make me wonder, did the builder just shim something over the 0 fret like you did the entire time they owned it, or has this instrument been out of tune its whole life?

By the way on the topic of the direction of the nut, I have found that how rounded off the side of the nut facing the headstock is can affect the pressure it puts on the string at its breakpoint. The more rounded it is, the better the pressure of the string is dispersed across it, however when you put the nut in backwards, this can put a lot of pressure on one single point where the string breaks away from the nut toward the headstock, which can affect tuning stability and cause more string breaks at this point.
I don't think it's the biggest deal ever, but when I tested this by putting new strings on a dulcimer and seeing how high I could tune it before the strings broke with different nut shapes, I found that a nut with a squared off side facing the headstock broke at that point at a much lower tension than a rounded off one.

Update:

I Always like making a new (for me) dulcimer mine. This one had the rounded-off plug of wood where a hole had been bored into the scroll (I think Patrick's grandfather just didn't finish this part) anyway, I didn't like the look of the plug. While thinking of what I can do -

I inserted a fleur de lis 

 inserted fleur de lis 01.jpg - 514KB

I beg to differ Bob. Aesthetically, it makes a difference. It just looks better when the rounded portion of the top faces away from the fret board. Also, it makes it easier to gauge the depth of the string slots for the strings to ride on that zero fret.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Ken Longfield: On that particular dulcimer, the nut is installed backwards.

Yes but it doesn't really matter since it has a Zero fret.

(may be a modified kit)

Interesting idea. 

(rounded-off plug of wood was glued )

What would be the idea to 'bored in the scroll' only to glue a plug of wood (not something more decorative)? An idea starts but then changes needed? Maybe he was thinking of carving something but time ran out & just glued till he could get around to carving the plug.

  How ever this grandfather built the dulcimer - kit or not, he did well. I'm still thinking the high action and the 3 strings close together, he had to be using a noter.

thanks again,

m