Forum Activity for @nathina

ahhhhhhhh, well now, if it's a kit, anything can go....especially if it's an unexperienced wood worker.  If your money is involved in buying a dulcimer from ebay, look for EVERYTHING you can see.  and then trust your gut feeling.  If it turns out to be something that doesn't play very good, then use it as a loaner to someone that wants to try it for a while.   If it turns out that you can make it play IN TUNE, more better.  It's all a learning game and exciting to say the least.  aloha, irene

If it were made from a Capritaurus kit, that would explain the label not including a signature or date. Maybe there was a special label included with kits. It would also explain the plywood back and inexpensive tuners.

Browsing old dulcimers on Ebay can be fun and addictive, but it's often frustrating and is never without risk, especially if one is unfamiliar with mountain dulcimer history and makers. With older instruments of any kind there are often more questions than answers, and on Ebay you only get what info the seller has to offer, and they sometimes know little about dulcimers as well.

Howard Rugg is a member here. I would contact him directly.  He kept very meticulous records.

I don't think you can draw conclusions about vintage Capritaurus instruments based on his newer work, though.

One thing to keep in mind is that Capritaurus used to sell kits, so it's possible someone else made a dulcimer from a Caprituarus kit.  Again, Howard would be able to explain the differences and maybe even identify an kit Capritaurus from a photo.

I was looking into his older Capritaurus' and there was a signature on the card. Serial Number etc. Looking at the Folkcraft a "business card" similar to what is pasted on the bottom is attached to the instrument at the neck normally for sale. I checked with Howard's site, and as far as I can tell, they did not use ply on the back, but solids for the Series. This would be the fourth or fifth, I lost count, of "vintage" instruments that were not made by the stated manufacturer if it is what I suspect. This instrument is on Ebay for 199.00. Suddenly there are several more listed on the web, no evidence of manufacturers name and one "new" Capritaurus from a reseller, again no id in evidence. Why I am becoming interested is 1. I don't want to buy a knockoff, nor would I want anyone else to buy one. 2. My brother told me the Chinese have caught on to cheap quick instruments and are making copies, especially since the country keeps getting locked down, and suddenly there is a dirth of dulcimers hds, mds. etc and other folk instruments for sale. I managed to get a great bargain on my vintage McSpadden, and a good buy on my new Gibson. So I am trying to learn to recognize copies of the MD. I can do that for the HDs but copies are few and far between due to the complexity. There is a big copy market on guitars, with knock offs coming in from China.

Well, I don't know the full history of CapriTaurus, but I do know that Howard kept very good records on the production of FolkRoots dulcimers, so I would think he would have done that with CapriTaurus as well. There is nothing showing a serial number or date of manufacture. You could go to Howard's current website: https://dulcimuse.com/capritaurusdulcimers/ordering.html  and find his email address or phone number and ask him.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

If one looks for flaws, one can find them always.   I sapose whatever we focus on, we will find and see.   I see a beautiful older instrument that I bet sounds really good and learning to play it with others and share your talents with others will be the joy of this instrument.   Someday this stupid covid stuffs will be in the past and festivals and gatherings will be soooooooooo much more fun.   This instrument will have joy to in being played by you and a good one to take to the up coming music gatherings. I sure do hope to meet you at one of these!!   aloha, irene

Another pic.

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This is being sold as a vintage capritaurus. The dulcimer has a ply back which actually looks rough. I think this is simply a business card pasted inside. The Ruggs, I thought,  were making a high line in the Capritaurus and this instrument does not appear to be one. The varnish is irregular and pooled in the head, as well as in crevices. There also seems to be "varnish" splatter on the tuners. I may be wrong what do you think?

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Richard Beard has been building for a long time.

Beard Dulcimers – Revels Music Mountain Dulcimers

Seems overpriced to me.

I think this is a new luthier. Haven't heard of him/her before. Anyways selling only on EBay by the name of Beard. The instruments look beautiful, prices are high for possibly an unknown I would think but have never heard them played, or seen anything about them. Looks are fine, but the tone is all. 

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Great!   :)

Two things I noticed about that post this morning: the label photo is no longer part of the post and the dulcimer is now called a Folkcraft. Curious.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

We can now fill in the spot for style or instrument. That works for me. Thanks for the fix. 

If this is the dulcimer on eBay, I think the price is way too high. I'd value it at less then half the price, maybe around $300 - $350. My concern is that the label displayed is not shown in the dulcimer but on the carpet. I am unsure whether that is a Capritaurus sound hole and peg head. I'm sure Howard Rugg would be able to tell us. Just my opinion, but I would stay clear of this dulcimer at this price.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

I did a little tweaking. Is it working now the way you'd like? (check by clicking the gear to 'edit' a song you already have up)

Good question, @traildad.  There is obviously a field for "style or instrument" but no way to edit that field.   We'll have to wait for @strumelia to chime in.  Most of us upload audio files to Soundcloud first, which has a different set of fields, all of them editable.

On the audio upload page it shows a spot for style or instrument. When entering the info for the upload I don’t see any obvious place to enter the info for that line. I’d like it to read “Dulcimer Noter Drone Style” is there a way to add the info?

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It has a the standard plush cardboard case. Very little about the dulcimer itself, outside of the label that says it is a Capritaurus and from CA. Certainly doesn't look much different than the Rugg and Jackel. 

I stumbled on this great little video showing little samples of all different kinds of dancing all over the world... so fun and inspiring to watch! 

https://www.facebook.com/joa.inlakesh/videos/10207979904291206/

The down side would be if you are tuning your strings back and forth on your melody string between a low G and the high E frequently, you will stress the string and break it more frequently than if you keep two dulcimers (for C/D and G/A). Also a melody string tuned down to G on a 26" vsl may be a little saggy feeling. You don't want loose tension especially on the melody string for playing the melody.

Considering the same manufacturer, a pre break up Capritaurus W/OSSC (walnut what is ossc?) would be better ?

Any Idea as to reasonable price?

My bad, 1983. Still second one made that day.

Ken,

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

I was reading the Mountain Dulcimer Noter and Drone blog. @Strumelia suggested getting two different VSL dulcimers for playing in different keys. 28 1/2 for D or C and 26 1/2 for A or G. If a 28 1/2 VSL led to broken strings tuning up to E, what is the down side to just using the 26 1/2 VSL? I can understand using two dulcimers with different string gauges for different tunings. I've read that a shorter VSL helps for chording, especially with smaller hands. I've also read that VSL is not so important for noter drone style. I've observed that VSL and the overall size of the dulcimer can make a difference in tone. I'd like to learn more about choosing a VSL for a noter drone dulcimer and the pros and cons of different VSLs in general. 

Ken 1982 or 83

I am thinking the price is a little high for this one. Trying to keep myself from the potato chip craze.

The label you have in the photograph is an original FolkRoots label from a dulcimer made November 14, 1982 and was the second instrument completed that day; a 38 year old dulcimer.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

FolkRoots, once owned by the Ruggs and Steve Jackel, was sold to Folkcraft when Howard and Steve decided to part ways. Folkcraft bought all the molds for making FolkRoots dulcimers and ti was shipped from California to Connecticut. When David Marks retired he sold Folkcraft which now owned FolkRoots to Richard Ash who moved the company to Indiana. A couple of years ago Howard Rugg decided to start making some instruments again and revived the Capritaurus name.

To see an assembly line of instrument building visit the Martin Guitar factory in Nazareth, PA or the Taylor Guitar Factory in El Cajon, CA. I think McSpadden was closer to having an assembly line approach but only in the sense that today worker A may be gluing up backs, worker B is cutting fret slots, worker C is bending sides, etc. Tomorrow worker A may cut fret slots, worker B bending sides, and worker C is gluing up backs. Lynn McSpadden told me that the worker who glued on the back signed the dulcimer, but everyone in the shop had a hand in building it. I'm not sure if that is still the case today.

I suspect that is what happened in the early days of FolkRoots and Folkcraft. At one time Richard Ash's brother, Steve, signed all the instruments and after Steve's death Richard's father seemed to take over that task. No matter who signs it, there are several people involved in building FolkRoots and Folkcraft dulcimers today, but this dulcimer assembly in no way resembles the assembly line building of Martin or Taylor.

Now to your original question, which FolkRoots is better? The answer is subjective. The old dulcimers are well made and have held up over time. The newer dulcimers come in a greater variety of woods and choices of tone holes. The same mold is used today as was used 50 years ago. I'd be happy with either one.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

I have never seen an established American dulcimer company that does not put together all their dulcimers by hand, with care. Any maker that sells multiple dulcimers is naturally going to make up some of the pieces in multiples ahead of time to save time- so for a standard size they build often, maybe they'll cut 6 fret boards instead of only one. Even a maker who produces only custom dulcimers, one at a time- well if they've sold dulcimers for a while, they likely have some parts already cut and hanging on the wall, ready to use on their new custom order.

I've never heard of an actual assembly line for dulcimers, or of machines that make dulcimers. This isn't China we're talking about. 
I believe that companies that sell lots of dulcimers will definitely have an organized method that saves time and is simply more efficient. Even small luthiers have ways they use to avoid wasting time and energy. Any outfit that offers their own standard model dulcimer would be losing potential customers if they didn't have a couple of them made and ready to ship.
This simply means it makes sense to put together their more popular dulcimers several at a time. 
And if a company produces a lower priced model of dulcimer based on less expensive materials such as plywood, or a standard model that they sell a lot of and therefore have some in stock ready to ship... well that still doesn't mean it was created on an assembly line, and it doesn't mean it was not hand made with care and attention. Just my two cents.

So the Rugg and Jackel are a massed produced line assembly as noted by the high Serial number. Also seems that the sticker fell out of the instrument. Price wise not on the level of the current Folkcraft. 

Yes that is a legit Folk Roots label. 

Rugg & Jackel made Darn Fine dulcimers!     As Dusty says, Capritaurus and Folk Roots were two different critters however.  The Folk Roots line was more of a production dulcimer than a hand-crafted dulcimer.  Are current Folkcraft better than a Folk Roots?  Depends on your personal interpretation of better.  

Nathina, some others here would know the story better than I, and Howard Rugg himself is a member here and can fill in the details.  My understanding is that the Rugg brothers started making dulcimers under the Capritaurus name and then the dulcimer renaissance happened in the Santa Cruz area, so to keep up with demand, they separated Capritaurus from Folk Roots.  The Folk Roots dulcimers by Rugg and Jackel used some plywood and other techniques to keep costs lower and production higher.  The still had the same design, though, as the large-bodied Capritaurus dulcimers that were probably the first dulcimers made with a larger box to get more volume.  Eventually they sold Folk Roots to Folkcraft, as you know.

So are they good instruments?  Yes.  But they are probably do not compare to the high-end instruments made today, which cost a lot more and have been built on some of the design principles that the Ruggs pioneered.

If you have a question about a specific instrument, you might ask Howard. He still has records on most of the instruments they made and can often tell you the specific woods used, whether that 6+ fret was made by them or added afterwards, and more.

My understanding is that the Folk Roots line of dulcimers made by Folkcraft are made of solid wood with no ply, but they honor the large box design of the original Folk Roots dulcimers by Rugg and Jackel.  The main advantage to buying one new is that you could get exactly the features you want.  On the other hand, Howard Rugg resurrected Capritaurus Dulcimers and is making instruments again, so if the Rugg design interests you, you might see what he is offering.

P.S. I moved this discussion to the Forum on specific instruments and specific luthiers since that seemed a better fit and would be easier to find by others later on.

is a Ruggs and Jackel pre folkcraft a good instument? Are the current folkcraft better? What type of label did they use and was it inside the instrument?

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LOL, I'm embarrassed it took me so long to figure it out--I was in IT for 25 years before going to law school.

Now I've figured out the photo gallery thing, and posted pix of all my dulcimers. The cardboard one started me along the path, the walnut one carried me a good way...but the McSpadden...she is The One.  :)