Forum Activity for @dan

With a zero fret you don't really have a nut, it is just an alignment piece. Zero frets can be quite "bright".

Micarta IS a kind of plastic -  a composite of linen, canvas, paper, fiberglass, carbon fiber or other fabric in a thermosetting plastic.

Nikolas, have you tried increasing the string gauges on your dulcimers?  This should reduce the pitch of the notes to a 'mellower' tone.  Just a thought.

Ken, Do you know, is this micarta? It looks and feels like plastic...

I have not heard your podcast but I am very intrigued! I'll have a listen with my Sunday afternoon nap and tea. I DO need to have that 6.5 fret added. It threw me for a loop when I tried to play some familiar songs. Thanks for the suggestion. I'll put out a call for a luthier in my area right away!

What a great story! Isn't it wonderful to have a variety of dulcimers to play, all with unique voices.

You probably know that you can get a 6 1/2 fret put on your Folk Roots. Just take it to a luthier.

Have you listened to our podcast? Go to: http://bit.ly/hotdpodcast  or  http://dulcimuse.com/podcast to listen. I'll be posting announcements for each new episode on FOTMD  or you can subscribe to the podcast and have new episodes downloaded to whatever device you use to listen.

Patricia

Robert, that looks like a pretty good identical bunch for comparing tone.  A lovely sight, I might add. 

Here I built a bunch of identical dulcimers with a mix of woods. All sounded maybe 90% in common with each other. Type of woods and weight defined the last 10%. Although I've come to my own conclusions about wood choice another person probably would not agree. Butternut, poplar, cherry are my favorites... Robert... 

 IMG_20141016_132550_333.jpg - 102KB

I'm wondering if the hearing aid is the culprit rather than the dulcimer.  Have you explored any other options with your audioligist or ear specialist?

Nikolas, from what I have read of your sound desires it strikes me that the combination of a walnut body and a butternut (walnut family...slightly less density) might be what you seek, but actual sound and individual perception of sound can vary somewhat (the same is true with pitch...some people can be out of tune and not even realize it due to their own perception of sound).  Wood choices are extremely important in the sound of a well designed instrument.  A dulcimer made of all woods with tremendous density could have the same basic sound quality as a brick with strings (trust me, I've heard it).  The hickory could also be a nice choice.  All hickory is usually a more subdued and mellow sound, while a hickory top with a walnut body keeps the mellow quality with a bit more volume.  There is nothing like trying them yourself, but if that isn't an option, these would be my recommendations based upon what you have written.  I hope that this is helpful to you in your quest for the right dulcimer for YOU.

Hi Patricia! I have a Ruggs & Jackel 1978 Folk Roots. It caught my Mama's eye at a Georgia garage sale and she paid less than $20. She gave it to a musician friend who had never played a dulcimer, and he then later gave it to me. At the first strum, I sat up a little straighter, shocked at the volume and attention getting tone. I have a McSpadden, a homemade kit, a Gallier and honestly, the Folk Root has its own little place in my heart. I'm a newish player and do miss having a 6.5 fret though, with my fingers get discombobulated at times, but we're getting to know one another despite that little bump. I love that it's a part of dulcimer history and I dare say, it looks proud over there in the corner next to the Gallier, like it knows that it's special :)

On the site for Ron Gibson Dulcimers he has soundfiles for several all walnut dulcimers. Keep in mind that Ron's dulcimers have a deep sounbox and have a lot of volume. I had teardrop with a maple soundboard and cherry sides and it was one of the louder dulcimers I have heard

different woods.....especially soundboard woods can have their own tonal qualities.  perhaps the best example are instruments made of

koa.  they have a unique and beautiful sound found in no other instrument.

Nikolas -- I see you're in Winston-Salem NC.  There is a lot of dulcimer activity "inland".  There's a dulcimer shop in Blowing Rock and in Black Mountain; also around Cullowhhee.  Undoubtedly several others I don't know of.  NC is a hotbed of dulcimer activity both on the coast and up in the hills.  Several world-class dulcimer players make NC their home.  Look around, you should find a lot of dulcimers to listen to.

When I have had all three dulcimers side by side, all walnut, all cherry, all hickory and all Folkcraft, my perception is that the cherry is the brightest and crispest in sound, followed by the walnut and then the hickory. My personal choice is the walnut which is what a play most of the time. I have noticed that you can change the sound the all of these dulcimers by changing out the nuts and bridges. Replace the micarta nuts with wood and you will get a mellower sound.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

James, my hickory model is exactly the same as your poplar model except 3/8" deeper body. Defiantly a more mellow tone and notes have a very clear undistorted quality. Less overtones perhaps ? This is the only hickory dulcimer I've made so can not say if all hickory dulcimers will sound this way... Robert...

They always say the most important piece of safety equipment in an automobile is the nut behind the wheel.  Well, the key factor that determines a dulcimer's sound is the player.  Heavy strum, light strum, where to strum, type of pick... never mind fingerpicking.  Five players can take the same dulcimer and make it sound entirely different.  That's one reason why we'll never come to a definitive agreement about wood or anything else.

I once had the opportunity to work my way down a vendor table, playing standard McSpadden hourglasses that were identical except for the wood.  I once browsed the Folkcraft showroom, where I sampled various woods and body depths (and other factors, too... the Folkcraft options can get overwhelming) (clearly I need to buy them all).  I borrow and play every dulcimer I can lay my hands on, and over the years I've come to some conclusions about what I like, but someone else could do the same and come to entirely different conclusions.  Different ears, different personal tastes, and different playing techniques.

If at all possible, try to attend a dulcimer festival or go to Fort Wayne and visit the Folkcraft showroom.  Or go to Mountain View and visit McSpadden.  Even if you don't buy a dulcimer there (good luck with that) you'll get the chance to play similar models with different woods, shapes and sizes.  Barring an opportunity to try dulcimers in person, your best bet is to talk to builders, and maybe you can listen to them play some models over the phone.

Incidentally, as a former apartment dweller who likes to stay up late and hates to annoy neighbors, I've tried keeping dulcimers quiet.  A softer pick, a slower strum, resting the dulcimer on a towel or some other thick fabric to keep the back and sides from resonating, using a piece of paper or a corner of an envelope as a pick, giving up on picks entirely and using my fingers, stuffing fabric into the sound holes, leaving the fabric resting on top of the dulcimer, tuning the strings down to low tension, playing near upholstered furniture, rugs and curtains that absorb sound rather than in an empty room... there are many things you can try before giving up on a dulcimer as too loud or too bright. 

Ditto!

Ken, I couldn't agree more. I built a hickory top and back model  with a 1.75" deep body. Somewhat muted but a remarkably balanced tone. A great dulcimer to sing along with.

No two dulcimers ever sound alike and you don't know how a dulcimer will sound until its tuned up. Half the fun of building dulcimers is the surprise you get when you first play them... Robert...

I think part of the problem is that with mtn dulcimers, there is a HUGE variety in the factors that influence sound: body shape, body volume, wood type, string gauges and types, inner bracing, wood thickness, instrument age, repairs, overall scale length or size, pick variations, noter or finger fretting, action,...the list can go on and on, and every one of these factors can influence the sound/tone/volume to one degree or another.  Side by side tests are rather meaningless unless every single factor but one is absolutely identical.

In comparison- violins, mandolins, guitars etc do have some of the same kinds of variations but overall they tend to be much more uniform and therefore it's a bit easier to make comparisons based on one factor, such as wood type or body volume for example.  Yet we expect to be able to make the same comparisons on wildly varying dulcimers?...we cannot.

There are just way too many variations to do accurate scientific comparisons on dulcimers that are different from each other in multiple ways.  In the end, our best means of selecting a dulcimer for ourselves remains: simply listening to an existing particular dulcimer to see if we LIKE the sound (what a concept), or by talking to your luthier of choice about your goals and preferences so he can try to incorporate some of the factors that would increase the odds of a custom dulcimer sounding to your liking.

All that said, it seems like we have this very same discussion every year.  

There are a minority of people who can tell the difference of sound between different woods used in musical instrument construction and the different shapes used....what percentage I don't know...10%?...20%?...5%?...

Whenever this subject comes up the majority, who can't hear the difference, claim there is 0%...... : )....

Me?....I used to be in the minority when I was younger and willing to put forth the effort to listen and concentrate intensely....now I'm in the majority... : ).....

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Almost everyone can agreed that different woods have definite tonal characteristics. For one example  https://www.taylorguitars.com/blog/guitars-more/tone-talk-rosewood-mahogany-and-maple

Yet when someone in these dulcimer forums asks what kind of wood they could use to get such and such a sound the standard response seems to be "just pick out the wood you find pleasing and the builder can make it sound any way you want." 

Shouldn't a dulcimer be made to focus on the tonal characteristics of the wood with which it is built?

A part of the problem is that is no meaningful definitions of terms like bright, mellow, sharp, sweet, muted and loud.  Nothing that says "this is a 2 on a 5 point scale of mellow".   All we have are subjective impressions. 

We do know that wood type is only one of dozens of factors that affect sound, and a good builder can make a dulcimer sound pretty much anyway you want.  I have personally heard both "sharp" and "mellow" virtually identical dulcimers made by the same maker, from the same wood combinations. 

Volume (length x width x depth) of the dulcimer affects sound, yes, certainly.  Both volume and effect are easily measured.  But shape does not effect the sound.   A year or more back I posted here and on ED,  a double-blind "can you tell which track is played by a teardrop and which by an hourglass" test because people said they could "always" tell what shape was playing a tune.  A number of tunes were recorded on an hourglass, an elliptical and a teardrop.  No one who took the test came close to getting the shape correct, even half the time.  That's a pretty good indication that shape has little or no discernable effect on the sound. .

If you are looking for a specific sound, I would suggest asking what builders make dulcimers that sound like that rather than what woods to use. Although the type of wood clearly has some effect on the sound of a dulcimer, other aspects of instrument design have a far greater influence. A Blue Lion will always sound more mellow than a Pritchard replica no matter what woods are chosen. If you have an all walnut Folkcraft, a Folkcraft with a spruce top, and an all walnut Warren May, the two Folkcrafts would sound closer to one another than the two walnut dulcimers would.

Having said that, in general, instruments that have soft tonewood like spruce or cedar for the top will have a warmer, more mellow sound than instruments that have hardwood such as walnut or cherry for the top.  That is why spruce is traditionally chosen for the tops of guitars and violins, for example.

Ah!  The light dawns!!   Nonsuch.   You're on that side of The Pond!!  Give a shout to Robin Clark, a member here, at Bird Rock Dulcimers:  www.dulcimers.co.uk   He's up in Snowdonia, Wales, and has a pretty good selection of dulcimers to choose from.   He's a great traditional player, and instrument repairman as well. 

I have a Folkcraft all-hickory FSH teardrop dulcimer that I play on a table with a small thin plastic placemat (lined side up) under it. Its sound is quite mellow (to my ears) and not very loud when played this way. I have an all-walnut hourglass dulcimer made by Johnny Pledger that I play the same way and its quite a bit louder and not as mellow as the teardrop (it's deeper and wider).

To be honest, I don't know how much the type of wood affects the sound quality of each dulcimer as opposed to the size and shape. 

I think the quality you have trouble with is a bright tone and the top of an instrument really does affect the tone quality. An all-mahogany instrument may have the sound you're looking for, warm, not so bright. Walnut is similar, but a little drier, a little brighter. I personally don't care much for spruce-topped dulcimers. They sound too guitar-like to me, and I already have guitars.

The McSpadden website has pretty good soundclips of their instruments. A half hour there would probably help you narrow down your choices. I also hear a significant tone difference between hourglass and teardrop bodies.

That's great! Now you'll be able to get a start and discover just what you want in an instrument. The problem is, many of us wind up wanting, and getting several (if not too many) instruments! 

Hi. I have a mellow,sweeeet-soundiing dulcimer. Built by Robert Schuler of butternut, which I understand is related to walnut...

Have you tried an all hickory dulcimer? I think they are one of the most muted dulcimers I've every heard. It is a lovely sound.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

It seems you're looking for exactly the opposite sound compared to what I prefer.  So... given that I greatly prefer a cedar top over an all-walnut dulcimer... I conclude that you would probably prefer the all-walnut!  Vive la difference :-)

Give Folkcraft a call or email them and ask what they recommend.  They are very nice people and they can help you pick out not only the wood, but also the body size, shape and depth.  A deep body gives a mellow sound, but also increases the volume so I'm not sure if that's the way to go. 

Hello Ken and thank you for your welcome message.  

and Hello Tumbleweed, John, Strumelia, and Nikolas,

Having never seen a dulcimer of any kind, played live I really do not know what sound, look of feel I want an instrument to have. It sounds a simple question however, from the feedback I have received there is a lot more to the number of strings than first meets the mind.  I thought I was going to have to travel large distances to see, feel and hear the various qualities of a collection of mountain dulcimers before I took the plunge into buying one that I liked.  This may be the answer in the long term if I decide to raid the piggy bank to purchase the ultimate instrument but in the short term however, most of the decisions have been put on the back burner.  No I am not giving up the idea of getting a mountain dulcimer, far from it as I was amazed to hear from a friend who is a member of the Nonsuch Dulcimer Club, that having made some inquiries within her circle of musical friends, she phoned me to say that she had spoken to a fellow musician who use to play MD that he had still got one that he was willing to let me have as my first instrument, so at this stage 3 or 4 strings is not so important as saying thank you to him for his very kind offer.  I hope to take delivery of it in a weeks time, so Bring it On

Hi everyone I'm enjoying the wonderful sound of this pick up called "Myers Pick up" I've put a few examples on soundcloud and many people have commented how good the dulcimer sounds. Here's the problem. The suction cup he uses to mount the pick up to the dulcimer pops off. I've had to just leave it "sit" there and play carefully and it works but I have a gig in two months that I can't have that happen with....I thought at first I could use that "tacky" stuff that I use to hang up pictures in my class room but it does leave a residue. Also I reached out to the owner who was very understanding as I thought I may have to upgrade to a different type. He told me that was no problem but that he's had many customers tell him they use 2M command strips. I just went on Amazon and it does look like they could work without damaging the instrument. If you scroll down it shows that when you need to "remove" the strip from the instrument you pull a tab down and it releases it without damaging the wall (normally use is to hang up stuff on walls) I do recall back in the day those types of strips would rip the paint and sometimes the board of the wall off...seems like they made an improvement and they are touting that "it won't damage walls" etc. 

what is your opinion? 

Here's the link:

 http://www.amazon.com/Command-17024VP-Poster-Strips-48-Strips/dp/B001KYSAN4/ref=sr_1_fkmr2_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1452874269&sr=8-1-fkmr2&keywords=2M+command+strips 

A dulcimer too loud?  That would have to be an oxymoron.  

lynn mc spadden once told me the thickness of the soundboard on various woods was more important than the type of wood. 

hard to imagine a dulcimer that is too loud. 

I personally feel the reality is somewhere in the middle here.   :)

I have the exact same dulcimer- given to me by a woman now in her 70s, whose father made it for her from a kit in 1983.  She said she'd never played it much and wasn't going to be playing it ever.  It has her father's name inside, but also has the kit sellers' green label inside, saying "The Dulcimer Shoppe, Folk Crafts Books", ...on highway 9 north in Mountainview, Arkansas.  It's identical in every way.

I used it in almost all of my dulcimer noter instructional videos, because my two main playing dulcimers both have 1.5 frets which would be confusing in a beginner video.  I don't normally play it, because it has a real hard time holding the strings to tension.  The original pegs were completely shot when I got it, and I replaced them with some similar looking ones which fit the holes and were in better shape- but unfortunately those tuners don't want to hold well either.  It's a real struggle to tune it to key of D.  Planet tuners would likely do the trick, but the dulcimer just isn't valuable enough for me to justify buying another set of high priced pegs (and I don't have bunches of tuners lying around), so I only use the dulcimer for testing out tunes on next to my desk, or for instruction purposes. It has a very narrow waist and the wood is quite thin.  I could post photos- it is truly identical in every detail to the dulcimer in your slideshow, Richard.

You said "The Folkcraft site makes it sound as if the hickory comes in, sound wise, between cherry and walnut. Does that seem a fair description?"

I have to say no.  That sounds like marketing.  The effect of wood species on sound quality is very fa down the list of known factors which effect sound quality.  Buy the dulcimer that sounds like what you want rather than buying a wood type, shape, size, or string count.

Type of wood is REALLY far down the list of dozens of things that influence and affect the overall sound.  All Walnut is no more 'fat and mellow' than all Poplar or Wenge and Spruce or any other wood combinations you can think of.  Specific instruments vary in sound.

I never recommend that a person buy a dulcimer by specific wood, except in the sense of beauty.  Virtually identical dulcimers can sound as different as night and day.  Several builders that I know have made identical dulcimers from consectutive slices of wood from a single log -- and gotten completely different sounds.  No two McSpaddens sound exactly alike, regardless of the woods.  Just keep listening until you hear the sound you want.  Then be prepared to buy that sound.