Hi Guy,
Not really understanding that, are you talking drone style and do you have a 6+. If you raise the 7th then you no longer have a diatonic scale(do you have an example of this, I can't think of one myself), and if you raise the 6th then it's no longer Aeolian but Dorian. In fact, most minor mode tunes you come across are gapped at the 6th and therefore playable in both Dorian and Aeolian, (and Phrygian if you have a 6+).
But that's what you get when talking modes 
Don't forget that our major and minor scales are technically "modes", Ionian and Aeolian respectively (although the pure Aeolian mode is often altered by raising the 7th and sometimes the 6th scale degree). So while calling something "modal" when referring to the other 5 modes is common practice, it's not technically correct. Technically any "diatonic" melody is "modal."
It's pointless trying to discuss modes if you don't know the type of instrument being used and what style of playing is being talked about. What's good for one is not always much use for another.
At the very least you should say if you have any extra frets and whether you are playing drone or chord style, otherwise you're just asking for confusion.
If you play drone style then the important things are whether there are any gaps in the scale and where abouts this places your home fret. Modes are just a convenient way of putting a label on this.
If you play chord style then I don't really understand why you are talking about modes at all, but that's probably because of living in the UK . It was more than thirty years before I even met another dulcimer player and the whole post-revival thing passed me by
The only time I've found a thorough knowledge of modes useful is if you're tabbing out a piano score, that is, moving from chromatic to diatonic.
Exactly!
Modes represent a complete different music practise compared with what we use today, with exceptions, like 'Old black Crow', Scarborough Fair' and the 'Drunken Sailor'. Modesis making music listening to the intervals after each other, where harmony is listening to the intervals which are produced at the same time. Drone music is a mixture.
So isn't there a real reason why modes were introduced to the dulcimer? Yep, to get ride of the inflexibility of the diatonic set up. What do other diatonic instruments players do, like the mouth organ and the thin wisthle? Just bying another instrument which is in the right key.Well, that mouth organ iseven crazierthan the dulcimer... Using a C harmonica when playing in G (or is it reversed?)
Wout
BTW it wasn't me who introduced the modes in this thread...
Wout Blommers said:
Hi Strumelia,
'Being sure' is a relative idea
In the above example starting at the open melody string playing Ionian means using the 6+ fret, right? (Rob writes about 'a nice major sounding mode') Using the 6+ and shifting the keyboard one fret to the right delivers, still using the 6+ fret, a Dorian mode..
Ah, I missed the part about starting out by playing ionian in DAd tuning...! Still, it's a confusing debate since the question doesn't lay it out too specifically.
My opinion isthat talking about modes is confusing and also frustrating, special when learning the dulcimer. Let's only talk about major and minor,and sometimes about Mixolydian and Dorian;almost rarities becausethat is just a few compared with the other two in music.
No, let's not.
I'm sort of of the opinion that how confusing and frustrating it gets when talking about modes is directly related to how people talk about them. 
Just use a DAD chart and leave out open, first and second position.
It is the same as on the guitar... The C grip played with a capo on the second position will sound as D. You are thinking C, but it is a D. Anyway, onmost dulcimers there are only three strings (Okay, the melodycan be doubled), which makes chord grips easy.When playing chords one doesn't need a capo. Playing noter&drone style, a capo can be handy.
On the guitar you have only four fingers toperform a grip on six strings. Because you don't have to use the thumb to make pressure at the back of the neck playing dulcimer, you have five fingers for three strings. So one loosing while cooking isn't that bad...
Wout
Larry, what's nice about using the capo is that you can use the same fingerings and play the same songs you are used to. The only difference is that you are in a different key (and you have to navigate around the 6+ fret). So the same fingerings you used for D in DAD will be a G when the capo is at the third fret. The fingerings for your G and A chords will be C and D with the capo at the third fret. Does that make sense?
I seem to post this video whenever anyone asks about how to use capos, but check out this Bing Futch video. He teaches Hangman's Reel in DAD and then shows you how to play it in G with the capo at the 3rd fret and and in A with the capo at the 4th fret. Then, if you listen as the closing credits roll by, you'll hear a "spooky" version in Em, which he gets by putting the capo at the first fret and playing the same song.
Larry,
As Rob explains capos do not work on dulcimers the way they work on guitars or banjos because the dulcimer is fretted diatonically, so some notes are not available to you. As the posts above indicate, using a capo will change not only the key, but the mode. I can't talk modes, but I am comfortable with capos.
If you tune CGC you can play in F with the capo at the 3rd fret or G with the capo at the 4th fret.
If you put your capo on the first fret you will be in the key of D, but the notes available to you will be D minor.
What I suggest is tuning to DAD and using the capo at 3 for the key of G and 4 for the key of A. Then you can quickly tune down one note to CGC for the key of C. Those four keys -- C, D, G, and A -- are the most common keys in bluegrass and old timey jams.
Larry Ross said:
Thnaks for all the input and the total confusion. I guess the answer is...... tuning to the Key of C and putting a Capo on Fret one does not result in the Key of D
Hi Strumelia,
'Being sure' is a relative idea
In the above example starting at the open melody string playing Ionian means using the 6+ fret, right? (Rob writes about 'a nice major sounding mode') Using the 6+ and shifting the keyboard one fret to the right delivers, still using the 6+ fret, a Dorian mode...
Playing the open string and using the 6 fret (not 6+) delivers first a Mixolydian mode and shifted one position delivers an Aeolian mode. That is what we do by tuning the melody string to C (one down) and start at the first position instead of the open string.
Using a capoon the first fret delivers E Aeolian, a minor scale (not mode), as Aeolian being next to Mixolydian in the circle. Next to Ionian is Dorian.
Ionian > Dorian > Phrygian > Lydian > Mixolydian > Aeolian > Locrian
My opinion isthat talking about modes is confusing and also frustrating, special when learning the dulcimer. Let's only talk about major and minor,and sometimes about Mixolydian and Dorian;almost rarities becausethat is just a few compared with the other two in music. (With exception of the Medieval Church music)
Strumelia said:
Wout are you sure about that?
Wout Blommers said:Hi Rob,
Tuning in 1-5-8 and starting 1 fret higher will be Dorian.
Wout
Larry,
Another idea is to have one dulcimer in either Bagpipe tuning Ddd with the 6.5 fret, and to have another in CGG Ionian tuning. With the 6.5 for Bagpipe D, from the open string you would get key of D and D mixolydian, and from the 3rd fret down key of G. With a reverse capo under the drones on the first fret, you would get E minor as well. Just a thought for whatever it is worth,
J.O.P.
Well, Larry, unless you have a chromatic dulcimer, the short answer is, "yes, you're missing something." Because of the diatonic arrangement of the frets on the dulcimer, you have not only changed the open notes; you have changed the mode as well. Instead of being in a nice major sounding mode, you'll be in (I think) aeolean, which is minor sounding. If you have not read it, you can download Robert Force's "In Search of the Wild Dulcimer" for free on his website: www.robertforce.com . He has a great discussion of modes in it.
In old time jams, I normally have 2 or 3 dulcimers in different tunings: one in DAA, one in CGc, one in either DAd or DGd. See it's a great excuse for multiple dulcimers.
Rob
yep sure was. One ofthe best mail I have ever gotten. I am still smiling like a frog on a hot summer day sitting on a Lilly pad. 
oh that was bad.
Robin Thompson said:
I'd wager your mail the other day was way better than mine,Phil. :)
phil said:as soon as i get some new battery for my camera I will show ya'll what I got in the mail.
I know i have been missing for a few days. nothing bad has happen, we have been moving into our new place. still have some things to get moved. then we will decide what we are going to do and where we want to live. so for now we are renting.
as soon as i get some new battery for my camera I will show ya'll what I got in the mail.
I know i have been missing for a few days. nothing bad has happen, we have been moving into our new place. still have some things to get moved. then we will decide what we are going to do and where we want to live. so for now we are renting.
Phil, sounds like things are in an upswing. It's good to hear you are doing better and have a place to stay
as soon as i get some new battery for my camera I will show ya'll what I got in the mail.
I know i have been missing for a few days. nothing bad has happen, we have been moving into our new place. still have some things to get moved. then we will decide what we are going to do and where we want to live. so for now we are renting.
I hope we can all hear a little more about it Phil- sounds pretty good whatever it is!
I'm so happy for you to have experienced some wonderful kindness from others here.
I am so glad that you received something to bring a smile to your face! May many more good things come your way.
You deserved some good news for a change, Phil. And yes, there are some wonderful people here at FOTMD.
Ditto to what Robin said! I hope things are starting to get back to normal, whatever that is!
Wow good things really do happen. I always knew there where some awesome people here. But today just blew me away when I went to the mail. I am not sure if I can say what came, but there are some really spectacle people here. I would like to thank them for what they have done. Oh and ya can't knock the smile off my face no matter how hard you try. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Wow good things really do happen. I always knew there where some awesome people here. But today just blew me away when I went to the mail. I am not sure if I can say what came, but there are some really spectacle people here. I would like to thank them for what they have done. Oh and ya can't knock the smile off my face no matter how hard you try. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
I am just reading about the fire and I am very sorry for all the pain this has caused you and your family. I like the way Helen said "sooth your woundedsoul" that is how I feel about playing the dulcimer and all I do is make a sweet noise so far.
It is very hard to go through many many years of saved memories, some maybe lost now but you did live them and are still here to remember them. I remember the feeling of going through and throwing away everything you have but when I did it, so was most of new orleans (after katrina) so as bad as it was, you didn't feel alone. I am sorry your neighborhood could not be by your side but I am so impress that your FOTMD fellow members are true friends and at your side.
Spring is coming and new beginnings, I hope you and all your love ones are able to look forward to all the next's to come and soon will be able to smile again.
Oh, Phil, I do understand the heartbreak of going through those things that hold memories! That was one of the reasons I said you need to be in as good condition personally as possible. It will never be the same, but I'm so happy for you having the housing as a place to retreat and get ready for your new life. May many of those items surprise you by still being worth saving.
As a personal example, this bibliomaniac lost tons of books, but just yesterday came across a book on vintage clothing I thought was lost. No, it's definitely water damaged, but was saved from being unusable. Don't mind a bit the condition since I can still use it to figure out what I need to know.
I'm sure you'll have damaged items that you will choose to keep...especially since this means both smoke damage, heat, and probably many things have water damage in stopping the fire. I am sure from what you say here that it will just affirm how strong this very difficult time shows you can be. Nobody would wish for it, but you will come through it.
Phil, wishing you and your wife peace and comfort as you move into your new place.
I would probably build a different setup to get to the door, even if it was just a piece of plywood and some cinderblocks. My husband had a bad fall years ago coming out of a door that had 3 steps down and he misjudged his footing--couldn't see what he was doing because he was carrying a huge air conditioner. Accidents happen very easily, especially on snow and ice. Be careful!
I am sorry for everything that you have been through, but you have a great attitude. May good things come your way.
Good thoughts, Phil. Things will go on and get better again for you.
Well we have finely started to move into a new place, the owner still needs to fix a couple of things as we move in. Then yesterday we got hit with an Ice and snow storm and its a whooping 9 degrees out today. So moving anything else has been put on hold for now. 
One thing I already know that I am going to have to find away to do is somehow build a better way of getting into this place there are three step to get into the front door there is no landing and no railing. the owner not going to do anything the steps that are there they are good, It's just my knees and hips are not.
We've been down to the ol' home place going through things to see what can be saved and what to take, what to leave, what to sell. you would be amazed at how much stuff we collect over a life time. Some of this stuff I don't even remember. Then there are the things that set off a flood of memory's Like all the marks beside the door where each child has been measured over the years to show how much they grew and the new fresher marks as Grand children came into the family. All the birthdays and holidays, all the laughter and tears, A family was here the children learned about life here through both good times and bad, they had each other, they explored the world around them. Then to soon they where gone... Then they came back but not alone, soon there where Grandchildren and a new life had started.
Now is a time for a new chapter in life to begin, we don't know where it going to take us. Things can and will be replaced and broken and replaced again. but they are things that do not matter.. Life will go on no fire on can take what is in our hearts. The memory's are ours to keep, New ones will now be made in a new place over time. there is even talk of moving to a new state. I had enough of cold and snow.
Phil,
Having been away from FOTMD for most of January, I'm just catching your news updates. BOO! to Wal-Mart and the comments from a former employee here saying it's typical of a company that tries to claim it cares about its local community. Yeahrightsure. I now feel better about the Red Cross, however, as I was led to expect much worse. Oh I hope and pray your house sale goes well for you. May the rental be working well. Did you have more to say about your instruments? Sure hope you have health insurance at least and that you are taking care to get better. This is a time that could make anyone overwhelmed -- as I said earlier from my own house flood experiences -- so you need to do whatever it takes because this is enough to make a healthy horse sick. (Not that I'm calling you that!) Is there any hope of ever getting your dogs back? That alone would be the equivalent of a death in the family situation for me.
This storyteller says you've got the makings for a That's Bad/That's Good story where the luck alternates until a whole bunch of it finally is the same and brings it to a conclusion. May your conclusion be "And I strummed happily ever after!"
Phil, You've taken a lickin' but have kept on kickin'. Good for you!!!!!!!!!
Phil, I know you've had a string of bad luck, but at least pneumonia is something they can deal with. Take it easy until you're better.
OK ready for round 3. I am starting to believe God is trying to tell me something. Since I was last here I have spent the last week and half in the Hospital
after the fire I had been feeling sick, Seen my Doc and was told I had the flu and bronchitis. So after getting meds to feel better, taking them for a week ,I was not getting any better, I was told to head to the ER. Found out I now had Pneumonia. I remember being out of my head a few times with high fever, I know it looks like I have a big head and all, But it takes some work to get out of them little holes to be out of your head.
I am finely back where I was, staying with family. hopefully we will have a place tomorrow. I am taking my meds and now have an O2 tank to carry around. But...Hey I am still here and Kick'n
n
Phil....did they ever set up a collection at a local bank or something? I know your community hasn't exactly bent over backwards to help....but maybe the dulcimer community could help some.
If this hasn't been set up, then send me a message with your address, please.
Wish you were closer...I have lots of extra stuff at my house.
Phil, I hope you feel better soon! Praying that you'll get a great price on your property.
