I feel sorry for anyone who is having difficulties. I'm sure it is not their intention to put out a bad product. All I'm saying is that anyone who builds and sells dulcimers should be willing to back up the quality of their work. I would never buy a dulcimer from someone who has no refund policy. I looked up the web site you posted and it appears they are very near the goal of the money needed. I have friends who have owed money to the IRS and the IRS is more than willing to work out payment plans. They want the money because they don't want to be in the business of selling assets.

Elise, I know emotions can run high but Siggie wasn't the only one who had problems. Here is a link to someone else who had a problem, http://mountaindulcimer.ning.com/group/beginnerplayers/forum/topics... .

I understand from other FOTMD members that Cripple Creek were great dulcimers. I also have a friend who built one from a kit. Having said that I personally have a problem with any builder who doesn't stand by their product. I purchased my dulcimer from a builder who would refund my money if I wasn't happy with the dulcimer. I understand Siggie did get his money back less a restocking fee but he shouldn't have had to go through a lot of trouble for that. Any builder who thinks their product is good should back that up with a return and refund.

I would be upset if I purchased a dulcimer that had flaws and the builder was unwilling to fix it or refund my money even if I bought the dulcimer from McSpadden or Folkcraft. While I understand some performance dulcimers can get quite pricey, $450.00 is a lot of money to spend on an instrument that has flaws.

Siggie, I'm glad you got most of your money back. I too have a cardboard dulcimer from Backyard Music that I assembled myself. I really enjoy it. I do want to post a video of me playing it. It does have nice volume which I didn't expect from a cardboard dulcimer.

Siggie, Did you get a refund?

Strange about what's happened with Cripple Creek Dulcimers, but they do have Cripple Creek Guitars

http://www.cripplecreekguitars.com/

at the same store.

It was a little of both, Peter. I remembered a discussion about Cripple Creek dulcimers but couldn't remember if it was here or at ED or whether it got resolved or not. I did a search to find the conversation. It is interesting that they offered a refund two years ago but not more recently.

Peter Tommerup said:

Dusty,

GOOD WORK! Did you remember this earlier discussion or find it by searching for similar laments and complaints about Cripple Creek instruments?

Dusty,

GOOD WORK! Did you remember this earlier discussion or find it by searching for similar laments and complaints about Cripple Creek instruments?

Dusty Turtle said:

As Yogi Berra (whose book is entitled I Didn't Really Say All Those Things That I Said ) did or didn't say, "it's dj vu all over again."

Check out this discussion from two years ago .

As Yogi Berra (whose book is entitled I Didn't Really Say All Those Things That I Said ) did or didn't say, "it's dj vu all over again."

Check out this discussion from two years ago .

I've seen and tried both the first small Cripple Creek dulcimer that Siggie received sight unseen by mail, as well as the one she came home with after going back to the store and settling for the least bad of another 10 or 12 that she was shown.

The first one was TRULY THE MOST UNPLAYABLE DULCIMER I have ever seen in 39 years of playing and 36 years of teaching. I have never even seen a 1st time amateur built dulcimer so poorly designed or executed. It was atrocious and simply not a playable instrument. Compared to it, the Apple Creek dulcimers I've seen look extremely well designed and playable.

BTW, I don't believe the bridge and nut were accidentally swapped; I recall checking that out for Siggie and seeing that they were of different widths and placed into slots cut into the fret board, so one could not accidentally swap the one for the other.

The second short Cripple Creek that Siggie has now--the least bad of another dozen problematic instruments--again looks like it was designed by a first time wood worker. It seems to have a solid maple fret bar (not hollowed out), and still is problematic in terms of playing and tuning. One of its better qualities is that it's quiet enough that its poor design and execution aren't quite as apparent as they would be if it was louder.

The most amazing thing is that Cripple Creek seems completely oblivious to the exceedingly poor quality instruments that they seem to be pouring out at this point in time. Based on what I've seen, they make some shoddy and cheap Pakistani instruments look well made in comparison. Actually, calling them instruments is a misnomer since it implies that they can be played. The two I've seen are really just very expensive wall hangers!

Good advice at this point in time is to steer clear of Cripple Creek dulcimers--unless you're up for an exercise in being ripped off and frustrated.

All the best,

Peter

If the dulcimers were good in the past but not now, it makes me wonder if they are contracting someone else to assemble or manufacture them. It's definitely a concern and I'm surprised they don't stand behind their product and offer a refund.

Sad story. There are many reasons why an instrument might not be exactly what we want, but it sounds like this one has many serious structural problems.

I would contact them again and insist on a refund. If all the instruments they offered you have structural problems, then exchange should not be the onlyan option. They need to know how unhappy you are and how vociferously you are voicing your concerns to the dulcimer community.

Siggie, Sounds like someone may have reversed the nut and bridge. I wonder when it was strung up if they put the nut where the bridge was supposed to be and vise versa. You might want to loosen the strings and if the nut and bridge are the same width , reverse them and retune . See if that changes things. Just a thought, I had someone bring me one that was done that way, it was an easy fix.

That's a real bummer. Way too much money for a problematic poorly built dulcimer, and no returns... I feel for you.

You should consider posting this over at Everything Dulcimer, too. You could also comment on the store's Facebook page, although it is mostly inactive, and maybe review on Yelp or Angie's List. Publicity might cause them to make it right, or at least keep somebody else from getting ripped off this way.

I got my Cripple Creek dulcimer kit 6 yrs. ago this coming December. It plays like a dream. Like your older one mine has Cripple Creek Dulcimers burned into the side of the fret board and my named burned into the other side. They even exchanged the fret board that had a flaw in it. I called and they exchanged it. Sight unseen. They didn't want the old one back. I haven't been in the area since, but I am sorry of the way things have turned out for you. I guess time changes everything. For better or worse. Like Ken, they were great people to deal with.

My goodness, no! Bud & Donna, and Bud junior and his Lady have always been very easy to work with and have built really good instruments. Was the instrument you bought a "true" Cripple Creek or a Cripple Creek kit that someone slapped together?

Interesting - less string tension making it easier to depress the strings - Does that mean easier to depress I could have clearer tones on the higher frets? If I was in G and put a capo on the 4th fret, would the strings still be easy to depress or would it start getting more tension - again making the higher frets harder for a clear tone? Hmmmm, may need to try G or C - something lower than D, but than most all my tabs are in D and the group I play with are all in D.

So many different ways of setting up an instrument, so it's right for one's own personal preference - all very interesting.

The third hurdle was string buzzing. What was odd at first was it was erratic. I experimented with bridge height a little but the final solution turns out to be loose frets. When I inspected each fret wire I noticed slight movement of the fret within the fretboard on some frets. There appears to be drying out of the fretboard due to winter dryness and the wood is "unswelling".

This is quite common on cheaper Chinese import instruments Sam (and some more expensive ones too!). The rosewood used is often quite 'young', the fretsaw blades blunt/too wide and the humidity in China when the fretboards are made being much higher than a US winter.One fix is to use asmall drop of very low viscosity superglue (the industrial stuff that isas thin aswater and sets in 1-3 secs) run under the fret, thenpress andholdthe fret firmly down for 20 seconds or so with something like a small hammer head. You can easily re finish the fret board afterward if needed by lightly filing or sanding off any glue marks then using 000 and 0000 wire wool followed by a very light rub of lemon oil. I think I've had to do this on somewhere near 400 various Far East guitars so far as part of my job Mind you, it is also a 'trick' that I've had to use on a couple of old US pre-revival dulcimers that had the odd loose fret in order to get the fret 'singing' again.

Sam,

What a history of setting up your dulciborn and welcome to FOMD. I'm glad you found this discussion, everyone seems to love their dulciborn but a few of us have or had some issues.Christine, you will notice likes theheavier gauge strings also. Both she and Frank have some great videos playing the dulciborn and many others on this site have great videos with their dulcimers - others like me are new to playing and find so many members always ready to help.

I never would think of inserting a nail under the strings but I love that you can tune to G and with the capo able to catch most all other tunings. Makes it almost seem like the best of all tunings except, I have trouble making a clear tone on the hight frets on the dulciborn - my action is still too high. Maybe I could try this on my dulcimer, which is really easy to play with a nice low action.

Good luck with GT, I wish they could straighten out the problems they have had with the dulciborn. It sounds like you know a good bit about fretboards and adjustments. I, on the other hand am learning as I go but with help picking up some good info.

Again welcome to the site, I hope you enjoy it.

I'm glad the 12's coupled with the fret adjustment improved the twang. Good job Marg! As far as the 11's, I find them a bit too thin sounding for my style of playing. There's not a huge difference but it's enough to keep me happy - ha!

marg said:

I changed to 12's today, that and filing the 3rd fret down just a hair I think made a difference on my twang or vibration. I got to play another dulciborn yesterday and it made the same twang as minewhen strummed up the fret board. For these two dulciborns either I need to remember to strum more toward the strum hollow or not so hard.

Thank you both Christine and Frank. I wouldn't think there was hardy any difference between an 11 & a 12 string. Is it just a bit heavier or mellow? What makes you both put 12's on the dulciborn? Just like 12's better?

Christine Shoemaker said:

I use the .12's too Marg. Also, .18 plain for the middle and .28 wound for the bass. I just changed the bass today to a .29 Acoustic Silk Bronze by GHS strings. (That one doesn't come in a 28.) So far, I think I like it. It seems to have a warmer tone.

marg said:

I will try the .12's and do hope Wayne can straighten out the problems. To have so many issues with the latest shipment shows they have not made any headway.

thanks as always for your suggestions, help and ideas

The heavier gauge will make it a little harder to play until you get used to it, Marg. For me, it's worth the extra effort as I like the tone much better. It might be worth a try and if you don't like the stiffer action you can always change it back , right?

Christine

Going to a heavier string for the bass, does it make it harder or easier to play or is it just the tone that changes?

I changed to 12's today, that and filing the 3rd fret down just a hair I think made a difference on my twang or vibration. I got to play another dulciborn yesterday and it made the same twang as minewhen strummed up the fret board. For these two dulciborns either I need to remember to strum more toward the strum hollow or not so hard.

Thank you both Christine and Frank. I wouldn't think there was hardy any difference between an 11 & a 12 string. Is it just a bit heavier or mellow? What makes you both put 12's on the dulciborn? Just like 12's better?

Christine Shoemaker said:

I use the .12's too Marg. Also, .18 plain for the middle and .28 wound for the bass. I just changed the bass today to a .29 Acoustic Silk Bronze by GHS strings. (That one doesn't come in a 28.) So far, I think I like it. It seems to have a warmer tone.

marg said:

I will try the .12's and do hope Wayne can straighten out the problems. To have so many issues with the latest shipment shows they have not made any headway.

thanks as always for your suggestions, help and ideas

Interesting, had not thought of changing the others. I have a bit of a tang from vibration when I strum fast or up the fret board- I was hoping the 12's could help with this. Would be nice to be changing strings just to try different tones. Doesn't the dulciborn make a great sound and I love the sound that comes when we slide, you have some great ones in your latest video, Winter's Delete Key.

thanks,

Christine Shoemaker said:

I use the .12's too Marg. Also, .18 plain for the middle and .28 wound for the bass. I just changed the bass today to a .29 Acoustic Silk Bronze by GHS strings. (That one doesn't come in a 28.) So far, I think I like it. It seems to have a warmer tone.

marg said:

I will try the .12's and do hope Wayne can straighten out the problems. To have so many issues with the latest shipment shows they have not made any headway.

thanks as always for your suggestions, help and ideas

I use the .12's too Marg. Also, .18 plain for the middle and .28 wound for the bass. I just changed the bass today to a .29 Acoustic Silk Bronze by GHS strings. (That one doesn't come in a 28.) So far, I think I like it. It seems to have a warmer tone.

marg said:

I will try the .12's and do hope Wayne can straighten out the problems. To have so many issues with the latest shipment shows they have not made any headway.

thanks as always for your suggestions, help and ideas

Someone from the dulcimer group in Houston went to Gold Tone for a visit. Wayne wasn't in town but one of the tech's showed him a few dulciborns and out of 6 half were good & half were a mess. I guess we got the wrong half.

Frank Ledgerwood said:

All the instruments were from this latest shipment and issues from 3 years ago still persist. Waynes' last comments were suggesting he's looking for another MFGR. May check back in a year or two.

I will try the .12's and do hope Wayne can straighten out the problems. To have so many issues with the latest shipment shows they have not made any headway.

thanks as always for your suggestions, help and ideas

Frank,

If the string size for the dulciborn for DADD - .011, .011, .016, .024w have you ever thought of trying .012's instead of .011? As you know I was having trouble setting up my dulciborn and yes I do have a bit of vibration more so when I strum fast or up the fret board- I was wondering if the strings could make a difference with the vibration? Having .011's on it, I'm sure is what gives it the nice high tones alone with the base tones but thinking it may be worth a try to put on .012's.

Any ideas or have you tried changing the string size.

Frank Ledgerwood said:

Hhmmm, I'm not sure what the issue is now. I can strum and do from the nut all the up to the 7th fret with no unwanted change in sound. You can try shimming up the saddle or even just a piece of paper under the offending strings. Also if your fretting on some of the upper frets, say from 3 fret up and still get the sound you describe, then I wouldn't blame too low of an action. If you get the "tangs" strumming open or the first 1 or 2 frets, then you probably have too low strings.. Also the more you strum up the fret board, the more vibration your causing, which may make the strings contact the frets. As your learning, setting up an instrument is an art.....

Sharon,So glad you had a good evening and the dulciborn really had the crowd excited.

If the string size for the dulciborn forDADD - .011, .011, .016, .024w have you ever thought of trying .012's instead of .011? I have been having trouble setting up the action on mine and I have a bit ofvibration - I was wondering if the strings could make a difference with the vibration? Having .011's on it I'm sure is what gives it the nice high tones alone with the base tones but thinking it may be worth a try. Any ideas or have you tried changing the string size.

I played the Dulciborn at a gig last night in a local bar. I played it with a banjo and accordion and we played some old time tunes and Irish standards, sprinkled into other repertoire. We played nothing fancy-Old Joe Clark, Drowsy Maggie-that sort of thing. There is a primal and exciting atmosphere made by the power of this instrument. It was really stirring and the crowd responded! I love it!

I agree with you Marg, there are great members here and you've all made me feel very welcome. Thanks everyone! I hope I can keep up with you and continue to generate a few WOW's every now and then!

So nice Christine Shoemaker has come to FOYMD and posted some of her videos, there's great members here and all interested in - all things dulcimer. In just a few days she has gotten more views than posting elsewhere and many comments alone with, quite a few WOW'S

Joy W. said:

Marg, you're right about the collection of dulciborn videos available on the YouTube link that you posted. The musician, Christine Shoemaker, is also a member of FOTMD, but I don't think she has been active on this website in a while. She and I have worked on some dulciborn duets together and, last summer, recorded some of our efforts at a practice session. Here are two of my favorites:

Southwind - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaRKcaKZpkA

John Stinson's #2 -

On her YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCS9PAgUI8AfFoxZFZ_XsTcQ Christine also posted some really beautiful pieces that she plays on a McSpadden 6-string baritone.

I am very flattered that you would want tab for my originals! I'm sorry, but no, I do not have any. Honestly, after I finish writing and then recording them for memory purposes, I usually go on to the next one rather quickly and do not take the time to tab them out. I'm happy that you enjoyed "Uh-oh!". I had a lot of fun with that one. If I ever do tab it, I'll be sure to send it your way Sharon!

I love Christine's playing and her compositions. I wonder if she has tabbed any of them. I LOVE "Uh-Oh"!!!!!

So nice Christine Shoemaker has come to FOYMD and posted some of her videos, there's great members here and all interested in - all things dulcimer. In just a few days she has gotten more views than posting elsewhere and many comments alone with, quite a few WOW'S

Joy W. said:

Marg, you're right about the collection of dulciborn videos available on the YouTube link that you posted. The musician, Christine Shoemaker, is also a member of FOTMD, but I don't think she has been active on this website in a while. She and I have worked on some dulciborn duets together and, last summer, recorded some of our efforts at a practice session. Here are two of my favorites:

Southwind - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaRKcaKZpkA

John Stinson's #2 -

On her YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCS9PAgUI8AfFoxZFZ_XsTcQ Christine also posted some really beautiful pieces that she plays on a McSpadden 6-string baritone.

So nice Christine Shoemaker has come to FOYMD and posted some of her videos, there's great members here and all interested in - all things dulcimer. In just a few days she has gotten more views than posting elsewhere and many comments alone with, quite a few WOW'S

Joy W. said:

Marg, you're right about the collection of dulciborn videos available on the YouTube link that you posted. The musician, Christine Shoemaker, is also a member of FOTMD, but I don't think she has been active on this website in a while. She and I have worked on some dulciborn duets together and, last summer, recorded some of our efforts at a practice session. Here are two of my favorites:

Southwind - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaRKcaKZpkA

John Stinson's #2 -

On her YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCS9PAgUI8AfFoxZFZ_XsTcQ Christine also posted some really beautiful pieces that she plays on a McSpadden 6-string baritone.

Well, I'm not posting any videos either but I do enjoy listening to the ones I can fine:

Frank Ledgerwood is a member and has several videos

http://dulciborn.com/videos.html

and

"I Wonder as I Wander" A song that came out of Murphy, N. Carolina in 1933. Sung by a young Annie Morgan at a revival meeting. John Jacob Niles happened to be there and paid $.25 each time for 8 times for her to sing it for him, so he could write melody and the 3 lines. He went on to add two more versus and publish it in 1934.

there are the ones Joy W. post above and Christine Shoemaker has several

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=Christine+Shoemaker%2C+dulciborn+videos

I do enjoy my dulciborn but wish the action was a bit lower so it would be easier to play the higher notes. I have had a lot of trouble trying to set it up so it would be playable.

I hope you enjoy this site, there's lots on it and many very helpful members.

thanks for the welcome, marg.

not sure what tonal differences the two designs might have - if there are any, they're probably too subtle for my ear to distinguish. and the upper register is harder to fret cleanly - not an area that the dulciborn excels.

as far as videos go, not very likely, i'm afraid. due to minimal skills i'm very reluctant to play in public. i suppose only playing in private is a bit like talking to yourself, but for now that's ok.

I see you are new to FOTMD site, Welcome and hope to see some videos soon of you playing your dulciborm.

alan kolman said:

i've been playing the dulciborn for a year and a half. it's a 'john hawk' model that i bought from john, and it has 1.5,6.5,8.5 and 13.5 frets. it sounds great, is easy to play, and i play it every day. however, after 6 months the fretboard warped badly (it's an early, scalloped model). gold tone repaired it at no cost other than shipping, tho i will say their customer support needs improvement big time. no problems at all since then.

i love my dulciborn, but it's kinda like an old british sportscar - beautiful to look at, fun to play with, but likely to spend time in the repair shop.