Forum Activity for @john-henry

Ken Hulme said:

"Suitable preparation" - hire three guys at 50 pounds per hour, eight hour minimum.

I like tung oil as a non-glossary finish - takes about 4-5 coats over a day or two.....

Ken, if that is a serious comment, you must have more money than I had thought!!! Sorta like me getting in three guys to cook me up a B- be- Q ??? Surely suitable preparation must be something that is as applicable to cooking as to anything that requires a certain outcome ?' Horses for courses I suppose, but after a long time of working and finishing wood I am always ready to concede when someone can offer a better method than the one I am used to ?

My regards

JohnH

john, if you still have 'ripple marks' from planer or whatever, no matter what you put 'on top', they are still there ? 'Sand and Seal' describes a process exactly, get rid of surface imperfections (sand) and then (seal) to provide an impervious surface. Easy to describe and easy to execute, IMO ?

John

john p said:

Thanks both, I'll look into that.

I don't like the way you put suitable preparation in italics John Henry, whats involved here.

Never come across 'sand and seal', is it the same sort of thing as button polish ?

john p

"Suitable preparation" - hire three guys at 50 pounds per hour, eight hour minimum.

I like tung oil as a non-glossary finish - takes about 4-5 coats over a day or two.....

Thanks both, I'll look into that.

I don't like the way you put suitable preparation in italics John Henry, whats involved here.

Never come across 'sand and seal', is it the same sort of thing as button polish ?

john p

After suitable preparation , two or three coats of 'Sand and Seal' ( shellac based) , light rub with 0000 grade wire wool between coats to remove nibs, use the same used wire wool to apply a good qualitiy paste wax, buff with soft duster, and repeat until desired finish is achieved. Almost instant, more or less fool proof, (depending on the care exercised during preparation), almost instantly renewable, and completly natural looking , IMO ! ( I use 'Liberon products)

JohnH

I've got one to do at the moment.

Flame Maple (Like the one in the FOTMD banner), bare wood.

Any reccommendations ?

I'm not keen on very shiney finishes so french polish is out.
I've used Tung/Danish oil before, which is semi gloss. It's not as labourious as French polish, but can take a fortnight to complete.

john p

Many years ago I worked for a High Class Joinery firm which employed a dozen or so men in its polishing shop, all of whom, having worked at their chosen craft for many years, showed distinct signs of acholisim !!! Meth based finishing products, and no real concern by the firm concerned for basic Health and Safety ! Out of interest Lottie, what is the trade name of the 'ready to use' product ?

JohnH

Ken Hulme said:

French polish? You are as sucker for punishment, aren't you! That's a lot of work! Good luck. Most of us just paint on a couple coats of something and call it good.

Advice - find some location that is as lint/dust/everything free as possible that has superior ventilation so you aren't inhaling too much shellac aroma.

Oh you have shaved that cat. I don't know how they do it but it will some how find away to get one hair in that Shellac. Just kidding don't shave the cat.

I agree with Ken When it comes to a nice finish Shellac is hard to beat.

Good on ye! Shellac does give a nice finish, whether properly frenched or not. When you're ready to string a play, let us know.

French polish? You are as sucker for punishment, aren't you! That's a lot of work! Good luck. Most of us just paint on a couple coats of something and call it good.

Advice - find some location that is as lint/dust/everything free as possible that has superior ventilation so you aren't inhaling too much shellac aroma.

Sometimes a different tuning just falls into place for a song we have had trouble playing , sometimes it makes a song come to life in a new way. And sometimes it just makes us think and learn something new. Are any of these bad things? Enjoy!

Paul

Hurrah! Hurrah! Hurrah! Three cheers for John re-tuning!

Yes, but music is all about fun. Tunings are tools we use to accomplish MORE fun! Never throw away your screwdriver just because you have pliers. Use the tool that does the job. When we use a pocket knife for a screwdriver, it leaves blood on the screws. Don't ask me how I know this.

Paul

John

You wanted to play a particular piece of music in dulcimer tab form. It's for DAD tuning.

Try the attached. It's set out complete, twice through. First time is single note melody only. Second time is arranged for playing right the way across the fretboard, some simple, some more complex arrangements - play around with it depending on your stage of dulcimer development!

If you're not familiar with Tab or are confused by any of it, drop me a line.

Enjoy!

Geoff

For the record, I agree with Ken, re tuning has advantages for the player. It helps make the differences in modes much clearer. From posts I've read, I am sure that very few dulcimer players have a good understanding of modes. A lot of the confusion stems from using one tuning, capos, and extra frets to bypass the use of other tunings. When you find a way to duck the tuning issue, you never learn what the tunings have to teach you.

OK, no more soap box. Transposing from DAA to DAD may work if you have a 6+ fret. If you don't, you will find you need the missing 6+ note for some songs. In these cases, a solution is to play the melody, as it's written in the DAA tab but play it on the middle string. Let the bass and melody strings drone. You can transpose by the method Ken gave above,but in some songs you will find you need to play some melody notes on the middle or bass string. If you truly want to stay in DAD, play the DAA music on the middle string. The down side to this is you probably can't use a noter, you will have to use your finger to fret the notes.

Paul

It's one of the Groups on this site, John. You can join it simply by looking it up here ( http://mountaindulcimer.ning.com/group/mountaindulcimersintheuk ).

And Sally, as I explained, is part of the Nonsuch Dulcimer Club ( www.dulcimer.org.uk ). You can find her contact details there.

Best wishes

Hi John

Only just spotted this - why don't you join the UK chapter of FOMD? There's lot of us there, including not a few great teachers...

As Ken says, don't "transpose" DAA to DAD if it's just a melody line piece. If the piece uses chords, tell me what it is and the chances are I or one of my colleagues has it in DAD tab anyway. Just let us know!

All the best.

..and by the way you're not very far from one of the most active dulcimer groups, based in Redditch. Look up Sally Whytehead and the Nonsuch Dulcimer Club.

Not sure why anyone would want to "save re-tuning" (it's dead simple, only one string). But changing tab from DAA to DAd is easy-peasy John, as long as it's melody line tab. Chord-melody tab (showing notes fretted on all three strings) is a bit harder.

All you have to do is subtract 3 from each melody line number... and if the DAA tab has a fret 9 being played it becomes a 6+ in DAd, not a 6.

If however, you have chord-melody tab, you'll want to consult a Chord Wizard like the one at www.strothers.com

Cheryl, I havea few small dulcimers, including a baritone dulcimette by Ron Ewing, an Eedy Beede by David Beede, and a Youngster by Keith Young. Since, as Kristi says, Keith Young has passed away, you could only obtain one of those if someone were selling one. The other two I highly recommend, but you might have trouble getting either of those luthiers to finish one in time for this summer. It would be worth contacting them to find out, though.

There are lots of good small dulcimers, though. As folkfan suggest, Mike Clemmer makes a "sweetie" that must be wonderful since you never see anyone selling them used. Folkcraft now has a re-issue of the Folkroots Travel dulcimer. Lots of people love the McSpadden Ginger model. If I were to buy one new now, I might trythe Blue Lion soprano, though I've never heard one or heard anything about it. I could go on. But I won't. Instead I'll point you to the group I started called Little Dulcimers and the list I created there called The Little Dulcimers Little List which I think is a pretty comprehensive list of the small dulcimers that are regular parts of luthiers offerings.

http://sweetwoodsinstruments.com/specialties.htm

Sweet Woods Instruments has a very nice travel instrument. It has an adjusting feature that works well in taking humid to dry weather changes into consideration.

Hello folks! I may have to travel for work later this summer and was thinking about getting a dulcimer that would be easy to travel with. I saw the Folkcraft travel dulcimer and wondered if anyone had it and could recommend it or another brand/maker??

Thanks!

Cheryl

It sounds like you have standard planetary tuners, but you may have Keith tuners. Take a look here, and scroll down to the picture: http://www.folkofthewood.com/page2161.htm No banjo makers install them unless requested by the player, as they are VERY expensive, and unless you play the few songs that require them, you may not ever need their special capability. They were developed for changing the banjo from G tuning to D tuning while playing. The right hand keeps playing, while the left changes the tuning. The tuner is set beforehand by the player so it will only go so far in either direction. You tune the G string to G, set the upper limit knob so it can't go any higher, then tune the same string to F#, and set the lower knob so the string can't go below F#. You do the same for the B string, but the limits are B and A. I don't know of a banjo player having more than two of them, but it's possible. Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aYqshyDNrg Pay special attention to their left hands during the song, there's a good closeup at about 0:59. Earl Scruggs invented a low tech tuner in the 1950's to do this, and wrote a few songs that needed it. Bill Keith designed the higher tech model some years later, and still makes and sells them. I think they have a lifetime warranty for the original purchaser. If this is what you have, you need to find a banjo player who uses them to show you how to make them do what you need on a dulcimer. Since they are there, you may want to learn to use them. Once you know how to use them, you can use them like normal tuners, there's just some extra learning first.

If you have standard planetary tuners, set the screw in the knob for enough tension to hold the string in place, but not so much you have trouble tuning the string.

For those who may be wondering if Keith tuners are good to put on your dulcimer, they are reportedly very good tuners, but at the price of $220 per pair, I wouldn't recommend them on a dulcimer hoping to make retuning a little easier. They have to be set for specific tunings at the upper and lower limits, so you would have to loosen the set knobs for anything outside those limits. This would make retuning harder in some cases. If you set them to go from DAA to DAD and back, they would work well, IF they have enough range to go from A to D. I don't know if they have that much range, but if any one wants to try them, I would suggest contacting Bill Keith before buying them. $220 is a good start towards another dulcimer, which could be kept in another tuning. Re tuning ain't $220 worth of hard.

Paul

That's DAd... the D and A are from the same octave; the d is from the next higher octave. Tune the bass to D. Fret the bass string at the 4th fret and tune the middle drone to that note (A); fret the bass string at the 7th fret and tune the melody string to that note (d).

If you don't like the tightness of DAd, you might try tuning down to CGc... both Ionian Modal tunings, using the same tab, but key of C will have much less string tension. Getting correct gauge strings may also help. Time will help you develop calluses, but lowering that action is the best all around cure.

Joe

Looks as though you've got a standard McSpadden "kit" dulcimer from the early 70s - small body, laminated walnut-faced back and sides, walnut top and sta-tite tuners. Certainly not a baritone.

I've had two to work on. Both has similar problems and neither played in tune when I got them. The fretting proved to be spot on (and presumably done in the shop before shipping), but:

(1) No-one seemed to have told the poor end users that the zero fret was the start of the VSL and the wooden "nut" behind it was just a guide which needed deep, deep slots to allow the strings to bear down firmly on the zero fret;

(2) The bridges/saddles were too high.

Effect of (1) is that the intonation was out all the way up because the dulcimers thought they had a longer VSL than they were designed for; of (2), that the strings were sharpened by having to press the strings down too far.

With yours, I'd start by taking down the action drastically (as other have said) and checking that all the strings are not loosely touching the zero fret or vibrating completely freely above it. As I say, I thought the fretboards were very accurate when I got them sorted. Nice sound as well - trebly, not loud, but quite sweet. Just sold the last one a week ago to a very happy customer!

Best of luck

Baritone dulcimers normally have more interior volume than a regular dulcimer, not less . Wider and deeper equals more volume for the same body length. Guess which one you should string as a baritone....

That tangle of strings isn't tooooo bad; I've seen worse. The two far strings should attach to the two far pegs; likewise the near string and near pegs. Yes that is a Zero fret.

Third, that action isn't just "high"... it's OUTA FREAKIN' SIGHT!!!!

As far as fixing the slightly too tall action , I would suggest sanding the bridge down to the bottom of the existing notches -- it can be sanded in place or removed for sanding. Use a flat hardwood sanding block to get a nice flat surface. You can use the melody and bass strings, still attached, as a kind of guide to mark how much to take off after that. Build a much wider temporary bridge, to hold the strings at the proper height at the 7th fret. It can sit in front of the old bridge. Tighten the bass and melody strings on the temp bridge, and them mark where the strings touch the sides of the in-place bridge. Then you can sand/cut the old bridge down to slightly (1/32") higher than the marks. File ( with a triangular needle file), do not saw, new notches. The notches only have to be slightly deeper than the diameter of the strings...

You have the right name for the zero fret. And it definitely sounds like the action is too high. When strings are too high above the frets, they go sharp just pressing them that far to reach the frets. The bridge should slip out of the groove if you loosen the strings. Try lowering it so the strings are no more than 1/8" above the 7th fret. You won't likely need to lower the strings at the nut end, as the zero fret is probably about as low as you would want it to be. If the bridge saddle doesn't slip out fairly easily, it may have been glued. You can file the top of the saddle down to the height you want, but be very careful. It possible, cover the dulcimer with something to protect it from tool damage. I tend to oops when I do this stuff, so I try to cover the parts I don't want covered with file marks, dings, scratches or other marks that produce @#$% language.

Paul

1) You really haven't played it much. I suggest trying a set of new strings,tuning it to a tuning it will hold and you are familiar with playing, and STEP AWAY FROM THE TUNER ! Play it for a few days, and see what your ears think. If you ask a scientist what time it is, you may get an answer such as "7:42 and 13 seconds, P.M., Eastern Daylight time." A poet may tell you "It's that time of day when the trees look like black lace against a fading sky." You have asked the scientist (the tuner), how well it plays in tune. Now pose your question to the poet (your ears.) Who do you wish to please when you play your dulcimer? The tuner, or your ears? If it plays close enough that your ears are pleased, you probably don't need to do anything else but enjoy your new dulcimer. let the tuner do it's necessary job, but only ask it scientific questions. It doesn't know Robert Frost from Helen Steiner Rice. NOTE: I suspect many flesh and blood scientists also know and understand poetry, but none of my electronic tuners have ever exhibited any similar knowledge.

2) A deceased luthier whose work I admired and whose word I trusted told me frets should be within .001" to be truly accurate. He may have been more critical than most, but 1/16" is probably not close enough by any standards. If you measure each fret from the nut/zero fret, they will be more accurate. If you measure each fret from the fret before it, any error gets added to each fret after it. Several small errors can then be compounded into large errors up the fret board. Not knowing who built this dulcimer, we can't ask how, or how accurately, they were measured.

3) Old strings can be hard to tune, and may not play in tune, so a new set may be a good start. If the bridge is movable, carefully positioning it is the next step. If the bridge is not movable, small changes can be made by compensating the saddle. This may be best left to someone with experience, but if the saddle is easily removed from the bridge, a new one can be made at a very small cost if you mess up, so you may want to try compensating it. First make sure it can be easily removed without damaging the fret board or top of the dulcimer. I'll leave compensation adjustments to someone better equipped to explain. I understand the concept, and have seen where it is used on some of my instruments, but have very little experience actually doing the adjustments.

Paul

This dulcimer has a zero fret and not a Nut?

28.375" VSL without the correct gauge strings, would NOT like going up to DAd. Personally I'd start, as JohnP suggests, with new strings put one. one at a time.

Frets accurately spaced to 1/16" -- .0625" may not be accurate enough.

Fretted notes being relatively sharp is not uncommon if the action is too high. Balance a nickel on top of the 7th fret. The strings should just touch it. Put a dime next to the first fret and the strings should just touch it also.

Hi Joe,

Are you still using the old strings ?

I have one a bit like that, it's not too bad with fresh strings on but gets worse as the strings get older.

Other things to look at are -

Does it have a bridge and is it fixed or moveable.

What gauge strings are being used, somewhere between 10 and 12 would be expected on that VSL(scale length)

How high do the strings pass over the frets, should be about the thickness of a coin over the middle fret. A bit less towards the tuner end and a bit more nearer the tail end.

john p

Below are instructions on creating a music listening PLAYLIST from your favorite audio clips on Fotmd...

Hi Marian,

One thing all my teachers have emphasized is to keep your fingers on the strings as much as possible as you play, and that should minimize the choppiness. When I see the dulcimer performers I'm always amazed that they move their fingers so smoothly...looks like they're crawling up and down the fret board.

Good luck, and keep playing.

Doris

Well, the really important thing is that you are hearing the difference. I think that if we can hear when our playing is choppy and really want to make it smooth, we'll find ways to smooth it out. One place to really watch for choppiness is between a pickup note and the rest of the phrase. I'm on a "campaign" (smile) to get dulcimer players sensitized to this particular glitch, and I work very hard myself at avoiding it.

have fun!

Nina

Yes, the more fingers you put into use, the easier it is to have fingers available to smoothly transition between notes. So, using thumb on melody helps a lot. I also use my PINKY a LOT on the melody string. So, basically, I'm playing the melody much of the time with my pinky and thumb; that leaves three fingers (ring, middle, index) to negotiate all the other notes. Another strategy that adds a bit of sustain to notes is to use vibrato.

Nina

A follow up, because I do think that smooth playing can go a long way to making dulcimer playing sound beautiful:

a) Another great way to connect the notes is to slide from one to the next. Not on every note, but I remember once LInda Brockinton telling me that she "slides all the time", and that helped me think more about playing smoothly.

b) Another analogy that I use with my workshop classes is to think "glue fingers": keep each finger down until absolutely necessary to lift it up. And, by "down" I mean close to the wood. The result will be that you'll be making your dulcimer "sign", with the notes very connected, as in vocal music (or violin music).

c) Recording yourself, even tho' yes it makes us all nervous, is a wonderful way to hear where the "gaps" are.

d) One final suggestion: to see this technique of "glue fingers", you might try going to you tube and watching videos of folks who make it a priority to put this smooth ("legato") style in their playing. Plenty of good dulcimer players do, but Linda Brockinton and Janita Baker come to mind (and, oh OK, my own vids will show it, too). A guitarist who does this beautifully, and really makes his guitar "sing" is El McMeen.

Happy playing!

Nina

Marion--The EXACT same thing happened to me at the same time in my learning (and I have not been playing long)--I,too, posted the question (but not as well). Nina Zanetti has explained above exactly what I was doing wrong. Also, I found that I was extra choppy because I hit "record" and became nervous.

On a completely unrelated note (generally-speaking), after I improved my fingering so that the notes were ringing properly, I switched to noter/drone almost exclusively in my learning. I found that I really liked the traditional sound and to have a drone along with the melody more to my liking. Not to say that is what you would experience, but since one of my favorite players responded above, I thought that I would throw that in there. Happy Playing!

Marian; please post a sound clip so we can tell what you mean by "choppy". As mentioned, it could be several things. But with only a two month learning period, you may have opted for quantity (number of songs) over quality (several technical glitch possibilities). If we hear you we can better help you sort it out.

Hi, I just saw this post , and it seemed to me that maybe by "choppy" you meant that there were little gaps between the notes, as tho' the sound of each note was being stopped rather than sustained. If that's what you meant, then I think the problem is more a matter of left hand technique than strumming. That is, it could be how you are fretting the notes, or- more to the point- what you do with your LH once you have played a note. With the dulcimer, after you've played a note, the tone starts to die off. But, the tone will completely stop if you lift your LH finger off of the position on the string. In fact (and this is important), the tone will stop completely even if you keep your LH finger in contact with the string, but if you lighten the pressure so much that the string lifts up from the fret. I've seen people do this, and what's happening is that they are inadvertently "muting" the strong after they play the note. It's the technique that we might use intentionally to produce "chop chords", i.e. when we WANT the sound of a chord stop abruptly. But, in song-like, sustained tunes, we want to the notes to flow smoothly, one note connected to the next. Again, the important thing is this: if you lift up your LH finger enough so that the string no longer contacts the fret (I think of it as contacting the wood of the fretboard), then you will have created a gap in the tone, and there will be silence until the next note is plucked.

Any chance this is what you're experiencing? If so, you've taken the first step to correcting the problem, which is to be aware of it! If you can hear those "gaps", then you at least know where you need to connect or smooht out the notes. Next step is to figure out how. The trick: never lift a LH finger (that has just played a note) until it is absolutely necessary. So, you'd never want to the finger (LH) of the note that's just been played until you set down the finger (LH) of the next note. Janita Baker gives a wonderful analogy of dancing: one foot always has to touch the floor/ one finger always has to remain pushing down the string. This takes practice, but is a habit well worth developing, if you want to have your playing sound smooth and song-like. If you are playing chords or across the strings, it's really good practice to hold down any note as long as possible, sometimes holding down a note on one string while you move a different finger to a new place on a different string.

Hard to explain all this in writing, but hope this helps some. Feel free to ask more questions.

Nina

www.ninazanetti.com

Well the good news is that you have noticed!!!!

The bad news is that there are no shortcuts You just need lots and lots of practice like Robin T said above. Strumming is a very complex skill - it is physically difficult and musically difficult and it is the most important aspect of your playing. If you are not struggling with strumming, then you are not pushing yourself hard enough. I always struggle to get my right hand exactly how I want it. When I learn a new tune I'm constantly trying tofathom outhow I should be working my right hand and I'll try differnt picks, grips, and rhythm patterns until I'm happy.

Howdy, Marian. What Robin said is a great way to get the rhythms ingrained in your system (so to speak.) Another thing which may help is to pat your foot at a steady beat (or use a metronome set to a fairly slow tempo.) Strum out in out in on each beat (pat of your foot or click of metronome.) When you're steady and clean with that, then strum out in for each beat. Do each of them 16 times before starting to play as a warm up, gradually getting faster, but not so fast you lose the steady rhythm.

Enjoy

Rob