Forum Activity for @wildcat

John Molineux box dulcimer

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

@strumelia I enjoy Bing Futch's videos. 

John Molineux box dulcimer

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I think that in general, older dulcimers with double fretboards were meant to be played by a couple sitting facing each other knee to knee, playing it on their laps in duet. That means the two fretboards are mirrored (one peghead being on one end of the box and the other peghead at the other end of the box). These were called 'courting dulcimers'.

Double fretboard dulcimers that are meant to be tuned and played in different keys, tunings, or octaves by one musician tend to be more modern and can be played by switching quickly between the fretboards. Those instruments will have the two fretboards facing in the same direction so the instrument does not have to be physically turned around to switch fretboards on the fly. Bing Futch's custom double dulcimer is this way.

Is there an option to order replies from oldest to newest ?

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Hi, thanks for this question.
The software used for running FOTMD does not allow individual members to re-order forum or group discussions. My choice for which order to use was based on the fact that about 50% of users now browse FOTMD from their phones or tablets, and having to scroll down through multiple pages (to check the latest post in a long discussion they are participating in) on a phone would be such an immense turnoff to many users that they might not want to remain here at all. So I'm afraid the 'newest posts on top' is the way to go these days... the same order as one finds on mobile device 'feeds' such as facebook, twitter, etc.
Sorry to disappoint you!  

updated by @strumelia: 02/01/24 09:48:25AM

instrument question- Stephens Lutherie/holy grail dulcimer?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Ah, the search for the elusive "perfect instrument"!  It probably does not exist (just as the perfect spouse does not exist), but luthiers like me try to build the optimal dulcimer for each customer.

I have not encountered Stephens Lutherie.

instrument question- Stephens Lutherie/holy grail dulcimer?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Any one tried a Stephens Lutherie dulcimer? he has a floating fret-board design for lack of a better word?

I think I’m catching that disease that seems to run through the musical community.  Which explains why so many people have multiple instruments.  Not just dulcimer players but everyone in general.  They are all looking for the Holy Grail that one instrument out there somewhere, which has everything all in one instrument. Is beautiful, and has that perfect volume, sustain, balance, tone and range.  SMILE 

updated by @lilley-pad: 02/11/24 02:32:37PM

Is there an option to order replies from oldest to newest ?

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Hi Nicolas!  I’m new at this myself. I like the idea of the first comment/response being at the top of the thread. There’s a scenario I wonder if the reverse order would be of benefit. Let’s say you’re following a discussion. If you get a notification that there is a new comment in a discussion you’re following, you open the link, I think you’d initially see the title of the discussion and the oldest (first) comment/response, then have to scroll down to see the most recent response. But I think I get what you’re saying. It’s easier to follow a conversation from beginning to end and it’s less likely you’ll miss information. 
I know that doesn’t help your question/comment. Maybe someone knows if there’s a toggle that reorganizes the time line.

updated by @rachel: 02/01/24 07:14:44AM

John Molineux box dulcimer

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

The dulcimer in the video is very cool and relates to some ideas I've been thinking about lately (such as fingerboards that do not touch any edges of the instrument)
It's hard to imagine what aspect of that dulcimer would be patented. It is notable that the second fret board does not have strings or a bridge. My first guess would be that it is intended to have a lower register of deeper pitch strings. This seems likely, since it only has one octave worth of frets.
Another guess would be that the second fretboard is meant to play in a different key. Bing Futch has a Folkcraft dulcimer with two separate fretboards in different keys. 
Either way thanks for sharing
Nate

Is there an option to order replies from oldest to newest ?

Site QUESTIONS ? How do I...?

Hello everyone,

I am fairly new on this great forum and I have not yet figure out how to order replies from a post from oldest to newest. Said differently I would love to be able to see the initial post, then just under it the first reply, then the second reply, and so on.

Today, what I am doing is scroll all the way down to the page (use load more comments if the discussion has a lot of replies) and read from bottom to top.

Did I miss something ?

Have a great day all,

nicolas

New instruments that I have no clue about!

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These are undeniably super cool. I am grateful that you shared these, but I would think the best person to tell you what they are would be your grandfather himself? The first instrument is very cool to me due to its fret layout. It is interesting to think about why the second string would be chromatic and not the first. Maybe it would allow the second string to be tuned to a major 3rd and still play diatonically. 
Would love to know if anyone knows more about the bizarre fret layout on the first photo. It reminds me of a citera.
Thanks
Nate

updated by @nate: 02/01/24 03:47:49AM

Reasons NOT To Get a Chromatic

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

#1 Reason NOT To Get a Chromatic Dulcimer:
You don't have to defend or rationalize it's place as a dulcimer. 

Reasons NOT To Get a Chromatic

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

It's too bad that this conversation, which started with such a reasonable question (even if it demands a parallel conversation on reasons to get a chromatic) has descended into a series of diatribes in which people offer differing definitions of an instrument that has been innovative and evolving for its entire history.  None of this has anything to do with the original question.

Yes, as Nate says, "qualifiers."  

There are guitars, 12-string guitars, solid-body electric guitars, tenor guitars, baritone guitars, etc.

There are dulcimers, baritone dulcimers, octave dulcimers, chromatic dulcimers, electric dulcimers, etc.

No controversy needed.

The dulcimer is a young instrument. For its entire history, it has been evolving.  Those first dulcimers had frets only under the melody string.  Does that mean that dulcimers with strings across the fretboard are not dulcimers?  Those first dulcimers also used friction tuners.  Does that mean dulcimers with mechanical tuners are not dulcimers?  Those first dulcimers were likely made solely of local hardwoods.  Does that mean a dulcimer with a redwood top is not a real dulcimer? Any effort to define a dulcimer by a limited number of construction characteristics is random and denies the long history of creative innovation among dulcimer builders and players.

The Jean Ritchie model dulcimer (made in that great Appalachian state of California!) has a Honduras mahogany fingerboard, rosewood overlay, ebony nut and saddle, mechanical tuners, and a 6-1/2 fret.  Those first dulcimers on which Jean learned had none of those elements, yet she recognized that they improved the instrument and supported them.  The rest of us might do the same.

Vintage dulcimer information sought

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I agree that the wood piece is meant to simply space the strings at the correct distance from eachother, and the dark colored 'bar' is the actual bridge. It would explain the extra notch. That would correspond to a "course" of melody strings, it if were strung '3 string equidistant with a melody course.' From the image, the dark colored 'bridge' seems to straddle the fingerboard, with small 'legs' that go down off both sides. I assume that piece of light colored wood was added specifically to modify it to be able to play 3 string equidistant.
Out of curiousity, I'd love to know how much this dulcimer cost at an antique shop.
Look forward to you learning more about it and sharing with us
Nate

updated by @nate: 02/01/24 02:23:22AM

Reasons NOT To Get a Chromatic

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

 
I'd love to find the first man to call an Appalachian zither a 'dulcimer' and ask him his definition. I wonder if it would be so general that most modern instruments fit in, or so strict that none of us meet the cut.
I think the standards you apply to dulcimer are not be applied to other instruments. A seven string guitar is a guitar, and a micro tonal guitar is a guitar.
In my view, a dulcimer that is different is just a dulcimer with qualifiers. Whether a chromatic dulcimer, a 1, 2, 4 or 5 string equidistant dulcimer, a resonator dulcimer, a lego dulcimer, they all count as dulcimers, but are not simply a dulcimer.
Might not be 'just a dulcimer' but it's 'more a dulcimer than it is something else.'

Just For Fun - sayings regarding the dulcimer or music

OFF TOPIC discussions

 
I play behind my back, Like Stevie Ray Vaughn.
I like to leave my best performances behind me 

Dulcimer Bag Lady Dulcimer Bags

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

That double bag looks pretty slick!!

Just For Fun - sayings regarding the dulcimer or music

OFF TOPIC discussions

@shanonmilan --the vast majority of us (traditionalists and moderns) play dulcimer horizontally -- "string side up" on our laps or on a table or stand.  There are a few who play it more vertically -- like a guitar...

updated by @ken-hulme: 01/31/24 07:16:18AM

Just For Fun - sayings regarding the dulcimer or music

OFF TOPIC discussions

Do you play it like a reso guitar, with the dulcimer resting on your lap?

Vintage dulcimer information sought

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Thanks for the feedback everyone. You have given me confidence that I may have a playable instrument. 

Btw: T and St meant Tone and Semi-tone, not Tall and Short. Sorry for the confusion.

Vintage dulcimer information sought

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Thank you for the additional information Art. We will all wait until you get the dulcimer and you have more of chance to examine it. It poses some interesting questions and I hope we will be able to find the answers. I'm sure you will be able to get it in to playing condition. I've seen thin pegs like that on other dulcimers.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Vintage dulcimer information sought

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

*  I'm not sure either of those bridges is 'real'  -- they are both far too long and extend way past the sides of the fretboard, making it difficult to play without snagging yourself on the,
* If that first dark "bridge" is set into the fretboard I agree that is most likely the actual bridge; a simple test will prove it.
*  As Strumelia says, the top & back being wider than the sides is called a "fiddle edge" and is a common feature especially on older dulcimers.
*   The Wide and Narrow (not Tall and Short) fret spacing is a true Diatonic fret layout.  It's your dulcimer, you can of course add a 6+ fret..  But Why would you want to?  This dulcimer was obviously designed to be played in a traditional manner, not modern Chord-Melody style.  Why not appreciate it for what it is?

updated by @ken-hulme: 01/30/24 09:40:06PM

Vintage dulcimer information sought

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

We are at a disadvantage as I walked away from the store, then bought it over the phone. When I get the instrument I will get and share more detail. The bar is in fact grooved, and I am beginning to think that the first crude "bridge" is there to raise the strings up to level with the fretboard. Note that the board itself drops away at the tailpiece.

Vintage dulcimer information sought

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

It should be easy enough to test on just one string to find out which of the two 'bridges' is the true bridge that allows the current frets to play in tune for scale (the distance between nut and bridge. I suspect the black one is the true bridge since it matches the nut, and the crude stick with the notches was simply put there to keep the strings at certain distances from each other (since the bridge has no notches and string spacing was likely originally just provided by the string holes at the tail).  But I see that the nut provided an extra slot for making a double-course melody string pair spacing instead of 4 equidistant.

Looks like a nice dulcimer, with that fiddle edge overhang, and such nice wood!

@motormike, it looks like the black bridge is actually cut into the body.

updated by @strumelia: 01/30/24 07:41:02PM

Vintage dulcimer information sought

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

What I'm thinking is that object by the bridge is a simple "noter" shoved under strings for storage.

Vintage dulcimer information sought

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Hi Ken. I knocked the photos down to get a few into the forum. The pegs are wood. I don’t see any markings inside through the sound holes. The frets run T, T,St, T, T, St, T, T, T, ST, which I think I have seen before. Can I add a 6½ fret? The top and back are slightly wider than the sides. Again I've seen that before, but forget the term that is used. It is currently set with four equidistant strings, but the bridge and nut seem to be cut for an optional double melody, as there are five slots. Presumably as I replace them, I can do what I want. Not having played it, I have no idea how accurate the frets are. I took pictures and walked away from it, then called back the next day and bought it. So I don't have it in my hands yet.

Vintage dulcimer information sought

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

There isn't enough clarity in the photos to really give an informed opinion. I agree that there are four equidistant strings. I have no idea what the function of the bar in the front of the bridge. It appears to be wood and fitted to the width of the fret board.  It could be that what we are calling a bridge is just to space the strings apart and the bridge is that dark wood and may be moveable. I am interested in the pegs.Are they wood or metal? Is there no builder's label inside the dulcimer?

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Vintage dulcimer information sought

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Art, that looks like a nice one.  Not sure of the bridge-bar either, but it may be an adjustable bridge, with the "real" bridge there just to set the height and spacing?  Like a zero-fret at the other end?

Reasons NOT To Get a Chromatic

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Sitting here looking at a dozen or so instruments...staples, frets, wound wire, straight wire, oak, maple, rosewood. No two are alike, yet I would call them ALL dulcimers. If I spoke in elizabethan english I may say "dulcimore", and if I was a kid in the mountains I might say "that stringy thang"... And guitars with hollow bodies, solid, whammy bars etc are ALL guitars...But as for men with only a mustache and no beard.....well...."technically".....

Vintage dulcimer information sought

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Nice looking instrument,4 equidistant strings.The fact that you found it in St.Jacob's got me excited,laugh-a Mennonite-Pennsylvania Dutch dulcimer...No.It's a modern dulcimer and I bet it will sound great by the look of it...all the best.

Vintage dulcimer information sought

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I picked this up in an antique store in St Jacob's Ont. No markings. Very nice shape other than  the bridge and nut which I will replace, and some damage to the scroll head. I'm not sure what the bar in front of the bridge is all about. I've not seen that before. I hope the frets are correct.

Any information or comments would be welcome.

updated by @art-s: 02/29/24 06:34:49PM

Reasons NOT To Get a Chromatic

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Let me help you with that, Ma'am!  The misty dulcimore past is calling out to you...

Reasons NOT To Get a Chromatic

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I guess I don't have any mountain dulcimers.  waaaaaahhh!   😭

Reasons NOT To Get a Chromatic

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

@nate Your perspective was one I hadn't considered-- I'm glad you wrote of it!  

Colloquially, although my newer Jean Ritchie model Blue Lion has "extra" frets, I'll still call it a mountain dulcimer.    

Happy strumming, y'all!   

Reasons NOT To Get a Chromatic

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

If it has more than diatonic frets, or more than 3 courses of strings, technically an instrument is no longer a dulcimer, it is a Fretted Zither.  "Tomay-to tomaatoe", but diatonic fret spacing is part of what defines a dulcimer.

Reasons NOT To Get a Chromatic

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

A guitar player friend once said about my dulcimer: Too bad some of the frets are missing. But then, too, are some of the strings, compared to a guitar. I wanted more strings, but instead of getting a guitar, I built a dulcimer with five separate strings. Is it a dulcimer? I would say it is 'quite' a dulcimer.

Just for fun, I added frets to a 4-string dulcimer to make it chromatic, and I can now play tunes that would otherwise be impossible. For strictly diatonic tunes, I use one of my diatonic dulcimers (well, they all have both the 6 and the 6+ fret, but I still consider them diatonic--that has become the tradition). 

Those of us who have been playing for a while probably have more than one instrument. Meanwhile, I play five dulcimers with different string/fret configurations: 3 strings, 4 strings with the double melody course, 4 separate strings, 5 separate strings, some with the 1+ fret, one chromatic. Each of those instruments has its own allure, its own possibilities and restrictions. I see no reason not to get a chromatic, and no reason not to call it a dulcimer.

John Molineux box dulcimer

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

 

great thanks!  So maybe this was more like the 1933 patent.  

John Molineux box dulcimer

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

 

In an interview by Graham Hood, John explains that, in the original dulcichord configuration, he added a complex mechanism of pedals and levers acting on the shorter neck, but that the result was too noisy to use. This can be seen on the record sleeve.

John Molineux box dulcimer

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Here is a short bio on John:

1947 Born in Los Angeles, California
1950 Family moved to England
Instrument - making
1972 - 74 Training : Newark School of Violin Making. Pass with distinction
 
Music and Story-telling
1963 Met traditional music through Folk Clubs
1965 Started giving concerts, solo and in groups
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1976 Moved to Brittany

1978  LP  "Douce-Amère" : traditional songs and instrumentals
(mostly with Appalachian Dulcimers)
1978 - 82 Member of the JOHN RENBOURN GROUP (vocals, dulcimers, violin,
mandolin). Tours + 3 LPs with the group.
since 1978 Solo concert tours: U.S.A., Germany, Ireland, England,
Italy, Hungary and France.
1985 LP  "Spice of Life" : personal and traditional tunes and songs
(with Dan ar Bras, the Josquin des Prés Quartet etc.)
since 1996 Tours throughout France with the story-teller Alain Le Goff
for the story and music show ‘‘Baleines, baleines’’
2000 Creation of  " LEGENDARY AIRS " , a solo show of ‘Stories told by Music itself’ (for all, rec. min. age 7 yrs ).
         CD compilation of «Douce-Amère» + «Spice » (Kerig KCD185) : awarded "BRAVO"  label from Trad Magazine.
2002 Creation of  " WOLF ? " : a one man show, where the wolf is revealed through stories, with some music (for all, rec. min. 7 yrs ).

2018 Creation of  " DREAMCATCHER " :

John Molineux box dulcimer

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Great video! Thanks.  I didn’t pick up on the range of that dulcichord, the basses are rich sounding.  But, so it still makes me wonder what the other fretboard is for? It’s such a short scale.  

John Molineux box dulcimer

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Thanks for that link. Although I don't speak French, I found the video interesting. I'll search among my friends to see if anyone speaks French to do some translation for me.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

John Molineux box dulcimer

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

A link to a 1979 French TV program (in french, sorry...) in which John introduced the dulcichord (watch from 9 minutes 30 seconds)

Douce Amère : John MOLINEUX - YouTube