Forum Activity for @b-ross-ashley

Finding ball-end strings

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Thanks for the reassurance! I've never played guitar or banjo so I never had this problem before ... do guitar strings get as fine as .010? My Folkcraft is 20 years old, the VSL is 27 3/4". Bucko Futreal said:

Any of the ball-ends, regardless of their marketing, should do fine -- at least that's what my experience suggests. I purchase individual guitar strings for all my dulcimers -- any decent music store that sells guitars will have lots of 'em on hand. You can also order 'em: http://www.juststrings.com/singlestrings.html
For instance, for my dulcimer in GDD tuning, I do .22 for the bass string and .12 for the other strings. On DAD dulcimers, I do .24, .18, and .12. Those are both Folkcrafts, by the way, so probably the same neck length as yours.

Finding ball-end strings

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Any of the ball-ends, regardless of their marketing, should do fine -- at least that's what my experience suggests. I purchase individual guitar strings for all my dulcimers -- any decent music store that sells guitars will have lots of 'em on hand. You can also order 'em: http://www.juststrings.com/singlestrings.html For instance, for my dulcimer in GDD tuning, I do .22 for the bass string and .12 for the other strings. On DAD dulcimers, I do .24, .18, and .12. Those are both Folkcrafts, by the way, so probably the same neck length as yours.

Finding ball-end strings

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

My Folkcraft came to me wearing a set of ball-end strings. I've replaced them once, with a new set, but the set I was able to find was the standard D'Addario set of loop-ends. Every set I have seen in the store or online is loop-end, but my MD was obviously built for ballends, with pins to fit through the holes in the balls. Loops work, but I think I'd get more consistent tension with ball-ends. Should I invest in four individual ball-end banjo or guitar strings?
updated by @b-ross-ashley: 06/08/16 09:24:05PM

They are both in the same key and tuning, I strum them in D Ionian, DAA, the tonic for both tunes is D ... one verse of Water followed by one verse of Shenandoah. Try it, it works! Bill Davenport said:

Interesting concept of Water is Wide whith Shenendoah. I'd love to hear that.
Bill

B. Ross Ashley said:

I guess I don't do genre Old Time either. I like stuff like Stephen Foster's "Hard Times", the traditional "Old Joe Clark", and others of that ilk, but I'm not enamored of the okeh Records style, no. I do Red River Valley in Pete Seeger's style, mainly because I love the alternate words he put to it back in the late 30s, There's a Valley in Spain Called Jarama. I do Git Along Little Dogies/Streets of Laredo, and The Water is Wide crossed with Shenandoah, 'cause I like them. ;)

I guess I don't do genre Old Time either. I like stuff like Stephen Foster's "Hard Times", the traditional "Old Joe Clark", and others of that ilk, but I'm not enamored of the okeh Records style, no. I do Red River Valley in Pete Seeger's style, mainly because I love the alternate words he put to it back in the late 30s, There's a Valley in Spain Called Jarama. I do Git Along Little Dogies/Streets of Laredo, and The Water is Wide crossed with Shenandoah, 'cause I like them. ;)

Here's a fewAngelina BakerHard TimesMes parentes (with a cajun swing)Cumberland Mtn.Deer ChaseForked deerbarlow knifebritches full of stitchesgoin to bostonfly away pretty little missold joe clarkglendy burkand a zillion others..........

Yes, I think we may be saying the same thing just in two different ways. ;)

I didn't mean to say that other types or sounds of music that use the core of tunes and ballads that are at the heart of "Old Time Music" are themselves "Old Time Music". As you point out Bluegrass is based on in part on the music core of "Old Time" , but doesn't have the same sound as "Old Time"I was simply trying to say that "Old Time" music has had a basic core of songs to develop on and through the years has developed a special sound that is "Old Time" music. In effect it is it's own genre now. But the tunes and music that are at the core of "Old Time" aren't just played or sung by "Old Time musicians", they have a more general audience.Here's how I'd want my Barbara Allen to sound, only not in a man's voice. This has the tonal quality that I would try to achieve if I could. I melt when I hear this, but I've always have love the rolling tones of someone like Mario Lanza, or Nelson Eddy. Yummy voices

The New Christy Minstrels do a marvelous version of Barbara Allen too, but I wouldn't call it "Old Time Music" when they sing it. It doesn't have the sounds or tones, and rhythms that I've come to associate with "Old Time Music"

It just isn't the same as the young girl's singing of it in "Songcatcher".Strumelia said:I have a different view on it. After all, a good chunk of Bluegrass music is from old-time songs, tunes, and ballads but played in a more modern bluegrass style. I don't think of it as 'old-time' music then- it's then bluegrass music, derived from old-time music sources. If someone played Shady Grove in Latin salsa style, it wouldn't be old-time music. And it wouldn't be bluegrass then either.Thus, I think of old-time music as being both the material (due to its age and other very distinctive characteristics) and the style in which it is played. It certainly can be a shadowy defining line between things sometimes though. Sometimes things are hybrids of two styles or two sources, etc.

folkfan said:

Carson, I'm going to say that "Old Time Music" is definitely more that just a core of basic tunes and songs. It is by this time developed into a genre of music with it's own sound coming from a basic cultural core but spiced with a variety of other cultures musical ingredients.

You can play the core of music without the sound that is now associated with "Old Time Music"

I have a different view on it. After all, a good chunk of Bluegrass music is from old-time songs, tunes, and ballads but played in a more modern bluegrass style. I don't think of it as 'old-time' music then- it's then bluegrass music, derived from old-time music sources. If someone played Shady Grove in Latin salsa style, it wouldn't be old-time music. And it wouldn't be bluegrass then either.Thus, I think of old-time music as being both the material (due to its age and other very distinctive characteristics) and the style in which it is played. It certainly can be a shadowy defining line between things sometimes though. Sometimes things are hybrids of two styles or two sources, etc.

Carson, I'm going to say that "Old Time Music" is definitely more that just a core of basic tunes and songs. It is by this time developed into a genre of music with it's own sound coming from a basic cultural core but spiced with a variety of other cultures musical ingredients.You can play the core of music without the sound that is now associated with "Old Time Music"Pretty Saro is an old song. Here's Iris DeMent doing it in what I think of as an "Old Time Music" sound

And this is more the way I do it. It has more of a lilt Which doesn't mean that it's better, but just a different style to the same song.

Carson Turner said:

I'm a huge fan of Shady Grove and several style permutations of that tune. It just speaks to me for some reason.

The question I'd toss back is whether Old Time music is a core collection of songs from a period as opposed to a style of rendering tunes of any period? I play Old Time (as well as several variations) and tend to think it's more a performing aesthetic than a particular list of tunes.

Just my thought though. A friend and I do a pretty good If You Seek Amy in Old Time style that gets more than a few raised eyebrows. I'm betting that many of what we call bluegrass tunes can be traced back to pre-bluegrass and into Old Time -- and possibly further back into vernacular folk styles.

No disagreement here on the various influences other cultures other than English, Irish, and Scottish have had on "Old Time Music". Lomax's book on the Folk Songs of North America gives a nice maps showing the areas of influence you mentioned.My comment was made merely to clarify why I have to qualify that I sing old songs but not Old Time music. Since I listen mostly to Irish, and Scottish singers, I come more from a background of the Irish sessions, rather than from jams on pickin' porches in the hollers of the Appalachian Mountain. Though my father was the first one in his family born outside of WV since the families settled in the area before the Revolution, his music was Glenn Miller, and Benny Goodman. etc.Most of the tunes and songs from the Smith/MacNeil book are related to the Child ballads , but they give the American version of the tune as it was sung at various spots along the Wilderness Road. It's an interesting book, especially if someone is interested in learning a bit of history about the songs as well as the development of the country in the early days of settlement.And I get caught on the Scottish Skip quite a bit, at least that's what I call that "hop" the rhythm can sometimes take. Strumelia said:

Interesting reminder, Folkfan!
Let's keep in mind that early American music was influenced by various other ethnicities and cultures besides English, Irish, and Scottish. In old-time music one can hear the definite influence of African rhythm in particular, and there were also influences of the French, Native Americans, Scandinavian, Spanish, German, etc etc.... But the African influence is clearly there, with rhythm (especially as contributed with clawhammer/gourd banjo and tambourine/bones), also as early blues scales (applied to both the instrumental music and singing).I do know that as an 'american old-time' musician, I have a terrible time trying to play along in Irish sessions. Even if the tune is one I already play in old-time style...the rhythm is so different, I mostly fail! The rhythm difference really trips me up- to me it's almost like trying to write on a paper while looking at it in the mirror. =8-o

Here's some links to tunes I've been listening to lately....tryin to steal a few licks... : )....Black Mt Rag

White Creek http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YSQzF8WmI8 Three Thin Dimes

White Freight Liner

Sweet Mt Corn

Big Ball in Monterey http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zpu7rL06Qo Lilly Dale

Wild Bill Jones http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyy4PY6-j9s Few Days

Trouble

I like lots of tunes/songs. Here are some:RoustaboutGathering FlowersLittle BirdieChased Old SatanRed WingRed Rocking ChairArkansas TravelerHunting the BuffaloShady GroveWhiskey Before Breakfast

My favorite top ten old-tune music TUNES?- you mean instrumental as opposed to songs or ballads?Hmm....favorite old-time tunes that I like to play...Here are a few in no particular order:Brushy Fork of Johnson's CreekHell up Coal HollerCold Frosty MorningTexasLady of the LakeLet's Hunt the HorsesJeff SturgeonOld Jimmy SuttonJack WilsonYew Piney mountainCallahanChinqapin HuntingI just realized that almost all the above are minor/modal tunes. =8-oIf you mean ballads/songs, that's a whole different list.

Interesting reminder, Folkfan!Let's keep in mind that early American music was influenced by various other ethnicities and cultures besides English, Irish, and Scottish.In old-time music one can hear the definite influence of African rhythm in particular, and there were also influences of the French, Native Americans, Scandinavian, Spanish, German, etc etc....But the African influence is clearly there, with rhythm (especially as contributed with clawhammer/gourd banjo and tambourine/bones), also as early blues scales (applied to both the instrumental music and singing).I do know that as an 'american old-time' musician, I have a terrible time trying to play along in Irish sessions. Even if the tune is one I already play in old-time style...the rhythm is so different, I mostly fail! The rhythm difference really trips me up- to me it's almost like trying to write on a paper while looking at it in the mirror. =8-o

I was just going through Songs and Tunes of the Wilderness Road by Smith and MacNeil which might have a clue as to why I say I sing old songs, but not old time songs. One paragraph gives a description of the difference between old Appalachian music and the music of Great Britain. It says "five tone and six-tone folk tunes are rare among the tunes that have been field collected in Great Britain. Somewhere between Great Britain and the Cumberland Ford, these tunes became, you could perhaps say, more primitive, without declining the least bit in beauty or power--perhaps , in some instances, even gaining."English and American folk songs tend to be in one of the 4 common modal scales, but old Appalachian tunes tend to use what are called "gapped scales" such as the hexatonic scale that leaves out 1 note, and even more tunes leave out 2 notes and are pentatonic.I came to folk music and ballads from listening to English, Irish, and Scottish singers mostly, not American. Many of the books that I tab from are published in the British Isles. No wonder my music is slightly different in singing style.

I forgot to give my personal top 10! I already named some fave ballads and there are others too:Barbara AllenTwo SistersThe Outlandish KnightSweet William and Lady MargaretArise AriseLittle SadieBut for me the other side of OT music is the tunes that were for dancing rather than singing and tend to have nonsense or repetitive verse/chorus structures, or no words at all:Sourwood MtnClinch Mtn BackstepGive the Fiddler a dram ( it is a favourite family hobby to make up more silly verses for this!)Swing and Turn JubileeIn fact it is difficult to limit it to 10 - my list will change a lot as I learn new songs and tunes as I am still a beginner with only a limited knowledge of repertoire!

Hi - am interested in the debate AND the music! That website is really interesting and I like the article that explores the term "old time" - I guess it means that rural people did not realise their music was "old time" until Okeh records (and later the radio stations) labelled it as such!Discussion about defining musical genres can be full of pitfalls and different interpretations (take a look at the endless theads on the Mudcat cafe about "What is Folk music?" to see what I mean - it usually descends into a slanging match there!). However, I feel confident that FOTMD is a much more polite and friendly place and that we can discuss and explore without falling out!Folkfan - I am interested in the distinction you pick up about doing old songs and tunes but not necessarily in an "old time " style. This is tricky for me - I would sound darned stoopid as an english woman trying to sing appalachian songs in a suitable accent, though you are quite right that some pronunciations need to be preserved for the rhymes to work.I am playing MD and banjo in OT styles though, and keep the song arrangements simple. My voice is not a trained voice, so I sing in a simple and not overly developed timbre . Like you a love the old ballads (barbara Allen, Two Sisters,The Outlandish Knight, Sweet William and Lady Margaret) and I think the focus should be on telling the tale - afte all these songs lasted because people love a good yarn!I think that this way I can be true to the original spirit of OT music whilst also being realistic about acknowledging that I am 100 years and a whole ocean away from its US sources!

Bill, Here's a site that has a "description" of Old Time Music. http://www.oldtimemusic.com/ and from what it describes, I definitely don't qualify as an old time music player in that I make no attempt to capture the flavor of the mountain culture that spawned the music style. I simply sing old songs. Occasionally, on some of the Scottish songs, I have to pronounce the words in a Scottish way in order that the rhythm or rhyme of a song works. Hame instead of home for example. My Ain Folk rather than My Own Folk. But other than that, I sing with my Mid-Western accent in as natural a voice as I can use. Fortunately for the world, I sing in private. heheheheheee Bill Davenport said:

Thanks folkfan.
I can't answer my own question. I always hear about Old Time Music. 1920's era music? Bill Monroe with his mother before he "founded" bluegrass. I've read so many things, I'm just not sure myself.
It's hard to "peg" an old time tune. That's why I put this out there.
Jump in anybody.

Hi Bill, Your question is a good one, but not one that I can really answer. I play a lot of old songs and ballads, Really old songs, but I don't play "Old Time Music". I don't play in the style that I understand "Old Time Music" has.Some of my songs would be: Barbara Allen, Eileen Aroon, Pretty Saro, The Riddle Song, Rue, Paper of Pins, Greensleeves, The False Knight on the Road, At the Foot of Yonders Mountain and a lot of songs from Scotland, like An Eriskay Love Lilt, Westering Home, Sound the Piobroch, Come By the Hills, Turn Ye To Me, MacPherson's Lament, Mairi's Wedding, and The Mingulay Boat Song. Hold old some of these are I really don't know.

the Queen family of Jackson Co NC

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I'm sure Mrs. Queen was a treasure to those who knew her.Rest in peace, Mary Jane Queen.

the Queen family of Jackson Co NC

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Neat story, Lois. I'd love to get to see Mrs Queen in person to hear her play and sing!

the Queen family of Jackson Co NC

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Thanks, Greg, I searched Henry Queen and found the site!

the Queen family of Jackson Co NC

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Although I do not know the Queen family personally, I do have a DVD copy of the PBS program. Like other mountain families, their music has been passed down from generation to generation. Henry Queen has a website where you can purchase a copy of the DVD or one of their CD's. The matriarch of the family is Mary Jane Queen, who has a CD out on which she sings mostly old Appalachian ballads similar to what Cecil Sharp was collecting in the early 1900's. Henry Queen's music falls somewhere between old-time and bluegrass.Greg "Banjimer"

the Queen family of Jackson Co NC

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

It'd be fun to sit down and play some tunes with you, Phil!

the Queen family of Jackson Co NC

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Hey Robin-yes, we have a good many dulcimer players in these parts. I am a member of 4 clubs, so there is usually something going on. If y'all ever come this way give me a holler and we'll do some playin'. Robin Thompson said:

Phil, are there many other dulcimer players in your neck of the woods?

the Queen family of Jackson Co NC

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Phil, are there many other dulcimer players in your neck of the woods?

the Queen family of Jackson Co NC

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I don't know the Queens but I live in the next county over from them-Macon county. There are alot of very good musicians around these parts-mostly banjo, mandolin, guitar and fiddle. I have played at places where the bluegrass musicians are fascinated with the MD. They can't believe all of the music we can play on those little things and they ask all kinds of questions.Phil

the Queen family of Jackson Co NC

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

In his blog, Bill Lewis mentioned he watched a program on PBS about the Queen family from Jackson County NC. Anybody here know the Queens? The documentary looks great and I'd like to see it.
updated by @robin-thompson: 01/15/16 10:25:51AM

Two mode/tuning/notation questions.

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Timothy and Folkfan, thanks much. You have both been very helpful.I've been picking out a tune in each of the church modes as a learning exercise. The Locrian mode is fascinating -- though useless perhaps -- because it seems such a pathological case.Frank Singer says, "Modal harmony is exclusive, meaning only scale tones are used to construct the chords of the harmonic progressions."However, he goes on to say, "Lydian and Locrian do not produce harmonic progression, as the I chords in these modes don't produce a feeling of resolution using secondary chords containing unique notes from the mode". (Emphasis mine.)(There's a sharpened 4th in the Lydian and of course the flatted fifth in the Locrian mode.)Finally, the one near-Locrian example I could come up with (the Berceuse theme from Stravinsky's Firebird) does in fact use both natural and flatted fifths. It still sounds pretty evil. ;)Thanks again for your thoughtful answers.Ken

Two mode/tuning/notation questions.

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

The use of 1-5-5, 1-5-8, 1-5-7 etc to denote the scale patterns for the modes was because the bass and middle string were always tuned to the drone while the melody string was tuned to put the starting note of the scale at the correct fret. So DAA# or Bb would be the standard way to write the notation for the Locrian mode when you only use the 6th fret. It puts the starting note of the scale at the 2nd fret. No matter what key you are using.However is you do have a 6+ fret and use it and try DAE for Locrian with scale starting at the 6+fret. That's a modern twist on things.As to the A drone, remember that the Locrian mode is considered the most discordant of the modes. It is considered more of an experimental or theoretical mode than a true playing mode which is why there is so little music written for it. In other words it's the Devil's Mode and it sounds awful which is how it is suppose to sound ;-) Again, however, if there are certain strums for drones like the DAA# just don't hit the DA drones but just the A#.Personally Locrian is so discordant and disagreeable to my ear that I never use it. But I don't enjoy badly tuned bagpipes either, ;-) 8-)

Two mode/tuning/notation questions.

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Questions in bold face.I ran into this question looking at the Locrian mode, which may be the only place that it arises with fifths tuning (e.g. 151, 155), but it revealed a general misunderstanding on my part of the notation used to describe dulcimer tunings and modes.The table below contains the Locrian scale in D for a dulcimer tuned DABb with Bb as the melody string. The first column is the note, the second is the melody string fret required to obtain that note, and the third is number (scale degree) of the note in the D Locrian scale.D 2 1Eb 3 2F 4 3G 5 4Ab 6 5Bb 7 6C 8 7Recall that we're tuned DABb. Let's assume that The D and A strings are unfretted drones.The first misunderstanding I have is that the 5th degree of the Locrian scale in D appears to be Ab rather than A. Yet each time we strum the three strings we sound an A drone, and the A note is not found in the D Locrian scale.So my question is "why is there an A drone in a tuning intended for the Locrian mode in the key of D?"The second (and related) thing I don't understand is the notation. I have seen DABb referred to as a 1-5-6b tuning. It appears that the scale degrees in this notation are always given in terms of Ionian degrees.Example: Looking at all three strings, 1-5-6b corresponds to DABb in the D Ionian scale, whereas it corresponds to DAbA in the D Locrian scale.)Do we always give scale degrees in terms of Ionian degrees when using this notation? Not a problem either way of course. I'm just trying to understand the notation.Thanks for taking a look at this!!Ken
updated by @flint-hill: 02/20/19 01:57:50PM

John Brown's raid on Harper's Ferry

OFF TOPIC discussions

This piqued my interest because one of my ancestors was thought to be a part of John Brown's raiders. My mom has a book that I need to read to get more information. Thanks, Teri

John Brown's raid on Harper's Ferry

OFF TOPIC discussions

Jill Jalbert said:

Hey are you another banjo player?

Assuming you meant me -- I have had a banjo (or several) since about 1963-64, but never got especially good at playing them. Basically, I played guitar, and collected other old folk instruments (not guitars). I learned to play something on all of them -- both sorts of dulcimer, fretless banjo, mandolin, fiddle, balalaika, Jew's harp -- just whatever turned up. I sometimes participate in the "Minstrel Banjo" world, because those guys are interested in the earlier, historical instruments -- they learn the tunes from early method books (pre-1865 ones, because a lot of them are CW reenactors) and generally strive for an authentic 19th century sound. Which is very different from modern banjo styles, played on modern instruments.Dick

John Brown's raid on Harper's Ferry

OFF TOPIC discussions

Thanks for posting this Razyn.. when I hear of John Brown's raid at Harper's Ferry... I always think of the interesting fact of who the 2 main union officers involved in capturing John Brown were. A Colonel Lee and a Sergent Stuart.... later to be both major Generals in the Confederacy... General Robert E. Lee and General Jeb Stuart...

John Brown's raid on Harper's Ferry

OFF TOPIC discussions

The Battle Hymn of the Republic was written to fit the tune of (some would say, partly inspired by) the more or less comic song "John Brown's body;" which in turn was based upon the camp-meeting hymn "Say, brothers, will you meet me, On Canaan's happy shore;" which was also newly in print around the time of John Brown's raid, i.e. 150 years ago. (Actually, I think that hymn was published in 1858, but I'm a little fuzzy on the details w/o looking it up.)Dick

John Brown's raid on Harper's Ferry

OFF TOPIC discussions

The Civil War or the War Between the States and all that led up to it are definitely watershed events in our history which should be recognized. Many horrible things happened during that time and they were recorded in the music from the period. We need to remember the time and honor the people that lived through it and what better way than to sing and play the music they wrote, in order to let them speak again.

John Brown's raid on Harper's Ferry

OFF TOPIC discussions

... was 150 years ago today (well, tonight), if anyone cares.I mentioned this yesterday on the (Ning) Minstrel Banjo forum, and the only responders so far are a couple of yahoos who think I'm trying to honor the memory of a terrorist. I'm not, OK? It was a watershed event, it happened 150 years ago, and I'm pointing that out. So, dress up and do your 1859 thing. Starting in just a couple of years, it will be the 150th anniversary of some Civil War event, most all the time -- for four years. Think of the gig possibilities.Dick
updated by @razyn: 01/13/19 05:09:18PM

I just made a twelve string guitar

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

All-around wonderful, Dick.For sure, I'll never attempt to build a 12-string guitar! Seems a 6-string would be half as much trouble. :)

I just made a twelve string guitar

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Dick - what a super instrument, and just in time for his 40th! I know I treasure the dulcimers made for me by my partner Richard and I am sure your son will feel that way too. There is nothing to match the knowledge that someone has cared enough to spend so many hours (of trouble!) to create a unique and priceless gift.