Forum Activity for @mikekoz

I think I will try cutting the slots deeper in the "nut". I really do not want to ruin the dulcimer as I do not have very good woodworking skills! I probably should have invested in a new better brand instrument, but I am just a beginner at this and did not want to spend a whole lot of money. Knowing me though if I saw a good deal on a better one, I would probably buy it! The one I got from Amazon is really nice though, but I know it is nothing high end.  I did a little research on the shop that is named on the sticker inside the sound hole. Apparently, the phone number is still good, and the shop may still be in business, but the instruments designer, Jerry Meador passed away in 2018 at the age of 68. I am going to guess this dulcimer was probably made in the 1980's. I was able to find a few other photos online of the same model, and one had a black "nut" and the other was like mine, but I could not tell where the strings were in relation to it. I will keep you all posted of any progress I make! 

I agree with Skip about cutting the slots deeper in the false nut before trying anything else. Sometimes I get ahead of myself and forget to do the easier solutions first.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

I think I would try cutting the slots in the false nut deeper as a work around for now. Be sure to protect the wood.

Once you get the nut problem fixed the error should be minimal. 

An example of splitting the error, Say the note/fret you check is sharp by 10 cents, you can re tune the string to 5 cents flat then when the string is pressed it will only be 5 cents sharp at that fret. The caveat is this affect all the notes/frets. If you have to fudge a bit, a little sharp is more acceptable than a little flat.

Just a thought, but have you tried contacting the makers/builders? your photo of the label shows a phone number and address.  they could give you info on the instrument, like if that blue plastic nut-like thing was part of the original dulcimer or added by a former owner, maybe some hints on how to remove it safely, etc.  It can't hurt to ask...

Mike, that blue piece is not actually a nut (or shouldn't be). It should be a string spacer to keep the strings in the proper place across the nut which is the zero fret. If it were my instrument I would try to get the blue plastic piece off and replace it with a small piece of wood; maybe one eighth inch square, or perhaps three sixteenths or a quarter inch square depending upon what would look good. I'd saw slots for the strings to provide for double melody strings and four equidistant string spacing. I'd make the slots deep enough so that the strings rest on the first fret. After that, I'd tackle the string height from the saddle/bridge end.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

OK, all of this is great information, and I have already learned quite a bit! I did not know what the zero fret was before you all just told me and was wondering why that fret was doing there! I have not tried the trick with the nickel yet but just took a look at the zero fret and strings and posted more pics. The strings do not come close to touching that zero fret even when fingering the strings on fret 1. I am just guessing, but looking at the nut on this instrument it looks like the previous owner may have added it to bypass the zero fret for one reason or another. It was unfortunately glued on, and I do not have the skills to remove it without damaging my dulcimer. Later on today I am going to do as you all suggested and check the string height on the 7th fret and see if I can lower the action by sanding down the saddle some more. I do have some files to deepen the nut slots but have never used them. 

One other tip is to split the error between # and b

Sorry Skip but I do not know what you mean by this!

More to come and again and I thank all of you for the information you have given me so far!

 Nut1.JPG - 387KB

One other tip is to split the error between # and b.

I'm glad you spotted that Skip,
with that in mind, the dime is not needed and only the nickel is necessary, as Ken said. Apologies for the confusion.

Skip and Nate have given you good advice. Check to make sure that the zero fret is higher than the first fret after you check to see that all strings are resting on the zero fret. From there check with the nickel on the seventh fret. If you get lower than that, the strings may start to buzz on the frets. You can make slight adjustments at the saddle (bridge) if you need to lengthen the vibrating string. You can't shorten the string because the saddle is in a fixed position.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

First, welcome to FOTMD. 
Are the strings touching the fret right next to the nut? If not, you need to cut the slots deeper because that fret is the zero fret. A zero fret performs the same function as a nut on a guitar. That black piece looks like  nut but is just a string spacer.

There are three main factors to consider when intonating a dulcimer, the height of the nut, the height of the bridge, and the position of the bridge. 

There is a simple system for intonating a dulcimer which is called the "nickel and dime method" where a dime is placed on the fingerboard just above the first fret so that the side of the dime is touching the nut-facing side of the first fret, so the dime is between the first fret and the nut. A nickel is placed on top of the 7th fret and is between the 7th fret and the string. 

Generally, the nut and bridge should be lowered until the string is just barely touching the face of both of the dime and the nickel.

If your fret wire is taller than average, the dime may not be useful, since the fretwire may be taller than the dime. If that's the case, it may be a little bit more complicated. Using a dime only works for short fret wire, such as a mandolin or ukulele fret wire, and if the instrument has guitar or jumbo fret wire, then determining correct intonation at the nut might be more difficult. 

If you set the string height or "action" using this method and all goes well, but your instrument is still not well intonated, then you may need to adjust the position of the bridge itself.

To do this, tune the string up to the desired note, and then using a tuner check the intonation at the octave fret. 

If the octave fret is sharper than the root note, then the bridge needs to be moved closer toward the nut. If the octave fret is flatter than the root note, then the bridge needs to be moved further away from the nut. 

I hope this helps

Nate

First time poster and first time dulcimer owner! I recently purchased two dulcimers. One was an Applecreek AD200 cherry model from Amazon and I have been very happy with it. Its finish and sound quality exceeded my expectations. I also wanted a US made vintage model so I started looking on Ebay and there was a lot to choose from! The first one I purchased I returned because the seller put down the wrong dimensions for it, and it was too small for my taste, but sounded OK, I finally found one that was the size I was looking for, and it arrived a few days ago and that is where my question starts! It does not have a brand name on it, but a sticker inside the sound hole that states " The Beaten path, Home Of American Dulcimers"  in Pigeon Forge, TN. It also shows two names, Jerry and Marsha Meador. I see no date or model number so I am assuming they made this instrument. If any of you know anything else about them or this dulcimer I would appreciate it also! Anyhow, the dulcimer was in pristine shape except for a crack in the headstock, but it does not appear to run very deep. I cleaned it up and put new strings on it and tuned it. It sounds great when just strumming an open cord, but hitting notes up on the frets sound off, especially with the center A string. I know how to intonate most electric guitars but am not sure how to do it on this. The saddle is not movable, so I am stuck with it as far as that goes. I removed it and replaced with a bone one made for an acoustic guitar, sanded it down a bit to lower the string action, and this has helped a little bit, but it is still off. What else can I do? Any and all help is welcome! I have attached some photos for reference.

 Dulcimer5.JPG - 219KB

Truly, a wonderful album! 

Hi All,

I hope you're having a great week.  Here's "At a Dinner Party," a track from my new album, Amy Levy:  Songs of Love and Loss .  Victoria Vargas is the vocalist.  The poem is (of course) by Amy Levy.  Yours truly is the composer and mountain dulcimerist (if there's such a word).  The whole album streams on YouTube and many other platforms.  Please give it a listen.

Way cool.  

Very interesting. I have seen them a handful to times at Hindu weddings, where the playstyle is QUITE different, and is much more energetic and rhythmic, but it works surprisingly well as a drone accompaniment as well. Makes sense since you don't actually have to control the speed or force of the bellows at all, so you just flip a switch to the chord you want and don't have to worry about feel or rhythm. Pretty clever.

Very cool.  I had to look up the difference between a shruti box and a harmonium... both play background drones. The shruti box is more simplified, without an actual keyboard like the harmonium has, instead with a handful of 'chord' buttons, like an autoharp.  learned something new!

Jean Ritchie's version, with an unusual, non-dulcimer accompaniment.

Hi All,

I hope you're all having a great day and looking forward to a great weekend.

As of today, my new album,  Amy Levy:  Songs of Love and Loss

https://neumarecords.org/home/ols/products/alex-lubet-amy-levy---songs-of-love-and-loss

Is streaming on all the usual sites, including Pandora, Spotify, and Apple Music.  It's on YouTube, too, but currently hard to find and, as always, in individual selections.  Please give it a listen if you're interested.

Best,

Hi Karen.  I sent you a message just now.  

Steve

Kinda like coffee me thinks... Sometimes bold with hints of chocolate or cinnamon....Or bland without any flavor.. All subject to the ear of the listener. Perhaps sometimes so many flavors it just tastes "off"...

I don't think I've heard a dulcimer yet, that didn't sound sweet.....

So the term "overtone" as it relates to dulcimers, just means perhaps you're thinking too much......Or you're building one out of an old toaster and a bundt pan ..... 

Glad you solved your problem. That's a technique I've used a few times.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Thank you! I ended up drilling four small holes and hammering in escutcheon pins. They've held up so far.

Straight forward, yet ambiguous. Does a presence of many overtones make an instrument sound

More "clear" or "full"

More "nasal" or "broad"

More "refined" or "ambiguous"

More "bright" or "warm"

All the words convey opposite meanings, but "overtones" are used to describe both.

On the dulcimer, what does the term "overtone" say about the tone?

My student is looking for a short scale (25-26”) standard dulcimer. Good sustain, mellow tone, no 1.5 fret. Anyone culling their herd and wanting to sell a well loved instrument?  Thanks.

Hi All,

I hope you're doing well.

Here's a review of my new album, Amy Levy:  Songs of Love and Loss.  It will stream starting this Friday on nearly all the familiar sources.

Have a great day!

Alex Lubet sets Amy Levy to music – Dulcimer meets Neo-Classical – AM_plified • The magazine for powerful music.pdf - 1.6MB

I found one from another personal source.. I never know how to delete a post - so Lisa, can you delete for me?

Hi, if you're still looking for a well-loved Warren May dulcimer, I have a 2006 all cherry hourdrop with no "extra" frets (so no 6.5). It's in lovely shape. There's a hard case which is not in lovely shape but serviceable. I can send pics if interested, thanks. I'm in Madison, WI.

I would add my 2 cents' worth about the melodies!With ballads sung without accompaniment,they had to be memorable,durable because they were passed down without written music.For a lot of my older friends the melody was just a vehicle used to tell a story and it's not opera!..that kind of thing would be a distraction.. chord changes,modulations...

I missed this entire thread when we were away camping in the Northwoods of Pennsylvania. In addition to Jean Ritchies books, English Folk Songs of the Southern Appalachians by Cecil Sharp and Maude Karpeles and The Child Ballads by Francis James Child are excellent resources. Child's collection was originally titled The English and Scottish Popular Ballads. It contained 305 songs (lyrics only) with American variants. Tunes were added in 1960. I believe the original was 8 volumes. It is still available in print and digital editions. Sharps book was originally published in 1917 is still available in the used book market but most  scholars agree that the second and enlarged addition is the one to have. It contains 273 songs and ballads and 968 tunes. I bought a copy many years ago and paid $200 for it. I looked today and found a first printing of second edition for a mere $750. Since the copyright has expired on Sharp's work, it can be found in reprints and digital editions for a lot less. Both works are worth having for folk song researchers. Many of the individuals and groups involved in the so called folk music revival of the 1950s and 60s used songs from these works.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Those very old Anglo ballads came from a time generations before Jean Ritchie, when there was no instant source of news in rural areas... no newspaper delivery, radio, or tv.  They served useful as warnings about disasters, illness, or criminals... and taught lessons in morality and behavior.

John Knopf said "One thing I've noticed is how many of these songs dealt with disasters, death, sickness, loss of dear ones, etc."

Isn't that what a lot of current "pop" music lyrics are about? Only today it is sung in the first person, not the third.

"Today I hoed an acre of beans and split a cord of wood, I'd do the same tomorrow if the good lord said I could," isn't particularly entertaining. 

In addition to ballads, they also sang "play party songs," common hymns, etc.

Many collectors were seeking "old ballads" which "proved" connection to Elizabethan England and seldom notated the other stuff. There was political bias in the collection process.

In the spring term of 1968 I took a poetry class and while studying ballads we spent a week using a dulcimer set up in traditional, non-chromatic tunings (only one for a class of ten so we passed it around) . Our adjunct professor, a fan of Jean Ritchie, used a quill and noter but encouraged us to try that as well as “guitar style “.   It was helpful to hear subtle variations of cadence , timbre etc that might be missed when the music was absent.  Then came the summer of love and a Jimi Hendrix concert … Memories from a steel trap mind - many are rusty …

My neighbor gave me a John D Tignor dulcimer. It's a five string. Does anyone know how that would have been tuned? 

If the bridge is being held in place by string pressure, rather than being glued down or in a slot, then intonation could be almost completely fixed by simply sliding the bridge about 1/16" to 1/8" closer to the nut. 

If the bridge is fixed in place, then I would agree that it's not worth messing with.

If you are interested in making the simple adjustment to the bridge Id be happy to explain further or give more specific advice based on your VSL and string gauge, but really just scooting it about 1/16th of an inch closer to the nut should mitigate any intonation issues.

I agree with Dusty, though, that it may sound just fine as it is, and there is no harm in putting lighter strings on the instrument to find out.

Either way, its fun to have different dulcimers with different ranges, so whether you leave it or change it, you cant go wrong. :)

Thank you all. I think the bottom line from your comments is that it will likely make a difference in intonation but I can compensate with changes to the nut and bridge.  I guess I don’t want to start down that road.  I’ll just have to play more baritone.  Thanks for all your help. 

Karen, everything people have said here is accurate.  However, you cannot harm the dulcimer by putting on lighter strings for a standard tuning and trying it out. (In contrast, putting baritone strings on a standard dulcimer might do some damage.)  I would suggest that you try it.  See if the strings sit right in the grooves on the nut and bridge.  Test the intonation, both by ear and by using an electronic tuner.  It might be that the intonation will be slightly off but you will barely notice it.  If the strings wiggle around in the nut and bridge, though, you might get some buzz that will be off-putting.  In short, all you risk by trying it is the cost of three strings.  That's still less than a lavender latte at your favorite cafe.

Karen, due to the thicker strings used on a baritone, I suggest putting on a new nut and bridge. I don't remember if Dave spent a lot of time adjusting the slots in his nuts and bridges to create better intonation or just went with the VSL. I think people stress too much about attaining perfect intonation. Somewhere I read an article about a luthier building a guitar and making sure that the intonation on each string was perfect. Not being much of a player, he asked some well known guitarists to play it. The consensus was that it was dull and lifeless; not due to construction, but due to the lack of overtones or something like that due to the perfect intonation. I wish I could remember where I read that story.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."