Forum Activity for @ken-hulme

Rob said it right - just behind, without touching the fret.

Jessica - are you having this problem on a Stick? Or on a Dulcimer like the one in your avatar photo? If it's on a dulcimer, you may not have a wide enough stance with your legs, and the dulcimer is sagging a tiny bit as you push down at the first fret. When you're sitting you want a wide knee position, with your left knee under the first fret. Not knees together with the dulcimer teeter-totter-ing atop them.

Rich -- Since it's a "sometimes" thing, chances are your problem is "pilot error" rather than anything wrong with the instrument. Probably related to the way your left hand has to twist to get to that first fret on the melody string. Stick necks are much narrower than guitar/mando/uke necks and that requires your hand to bend differently. You could test this by laying the stick flat on a table and fretting while you can see what you're doing.

johnp is right too. The stick instrument, or as I call them American Citterns, isn't a dulcimer. By definition a dulcimer has no neck beyond the body. The folks here who play sticks may not look in General dulcimer discussions. If it's specific to sticks, you might want to post a question to the Stick Group.

Strumsticks aren't really dulcimers, maybe you'll find something on a guitar site that is more relevent.

Does it have a tension rod, are you twisting on the neck, pulling back or pushing forward in a way that is affecting your frettting ?

john

Right behind the fret without touching it is the ideal.

Clifford Glenn Dulcimer photos

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Thanks for the tips Geoff. You are right it is the base string. I don't remember what I put on it but I'll check your tips out tonight.

Many thanks

David

Geoff Black said:

Hi David

No-one should suffer slipping pegs, particularly on a Glenn where they are normally well fitted and effective.

A few tips with apologies if they are self-evident.

1. I imagine this is the bass string. If so check your gauge first. It needs to be no more than 0.024w, but this should hold easily at D.
2. Always wind the strings on carefully. Strings naturally try to pull the pegs out, unless they are the middle string which pulls straight. Ensure the last two coils are tight against their respective sides of the headstock, so that the pull is as straight as possible.
3. You can put too much dope on. Peg treatments try to do two opposite things - make the peg turn smoothly and ensure it holds firm. Too much or too little drives it to do one or the other exclusively! Either take some dope off using very fine steel wool or simply dust lightly with some chalk to help grip - yes, I know it sounds crude but it works!

Best of luck with it. Should be fine and, with the Glenn sound, should give great enjoyment.

Geoff

Clifford Glenn Dulcimer photos

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Hi David

No-one should suffer slipping pegs, particularly on a Glenn where they are normally well fitted and effective.

A few tips with apologies if they are self-evident.

1. I imagine this is the bass string. If so check your gauge first. It needs to be no more than 0.024w, but this should hold easily at D.
2. Always wind the strings on carefully. Strings naturally try to pull the pegs out, unless they are the middle string which pulls straight. Ensure the last two coils are tight against their respective sides of the headstock, so that the pull is as straight as possible.
3. You can put too much dope on. Peg treatments try to do two opposite things - make the peg turn smoothly and ensure it holds firm. Too much or too little drives it to do one or the other exclusively! Either take some dope off using very fine steel wool or simply dust lightly with some chalk to help grip - yes, I know it sounds crude but it works!

Best of luck with it. Should be fine and, with the Glenn sound, should give great enjoyment.

Geoff

Clifford Glenn Dulcimer photos

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Geoff, the only problem I have is tuning it. Two of the pegs are not too bad but one of them when you get it tuned and bump it or touch it it jumps back again. I've used peg drops like Strumlelia recommended and it helps except for that one peg. I've tuned it down to CGG as DAA was too hard to tune and keep tuned. I use it when I want to play songs in DAA

Geoff Black said:

Hi David

Only just spotted this on an internet search, although I'm on FOTMD often. You may now have answers to your questions, if not the following may help.

Lovely instrument from a middle phase of the Glenn's dulcimer making. It has no flare on the headstock for the strings to run outwards over the nut; shallow sides (1 3/8" or so); and a single nickel screw to act as the string anchor - yes it's original!. Earlier ones had a thinner tailpiece through which the strings pass at the bridge end. Later ones are deeper with flared headstock and brass screw. I have a 1974 which is very similar to this - and a few other earlier and later models.

Strings MAY be original - difficult to say. I've had 0.010, 0.010, 0.018w and 0.011, 0.011, 0.021w on mine when I got them - they seem a little lighter than my expectation. I would normally use 0.012 and 0.022w or even 0.024w for DAA with this scale length. What size were yours (if you can remember)?

Woods: you're right with sides and back, but I can't identify the top either. In fact, I struggle with many of the six I own. Most are hardwood, as this appears to be (one cedar), but all different and none obvious!

Are you playing it? If so, what kind of music? Any issues with it to date? - looks very original and in excellent condition. Feel free to ask any questions. Anyway, congratulations on a good purchase. Hope you enjoy.

Geoff Black

Revels Music

Clifford Glenn Dulcimer photos

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

That is a real beauty! Looks all original and mint condition to me- I wouldn't change a thing except to put fresh strings. But also worth writing down the gauge of the strings on it first, or save them in a little labeled bag...as they look like they might well be the original strings put on by Mr. Glenn. It's a lovely gem and so nice that it hasn't been tampered with, after all these years.

Clifford Glenn Dulcimer photos

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Hi David

Only just spotted this on an internet search, although I'm on FOTMD often. You may now have answers to your questions, if not the following may help.

Lovely instrument from a middle phase of the Glenn's dulcimer making. It has no flare on the headstock for the strings to run outwards over the nut; shallow sides (1 3/8" or so); and a single nickel screw to act as the string anchor - yes it's original!. Earlier ones had a thinner tailpiece through which the strings pass at the bridge end. Later ones are deeper with flared headstock and brass screw. I have a 1974 which is very similar to this - and a few other earlier and later models.

Strings MAY be original - difficult to say. I've had 0.010, 0.010, 0.018w and 0.011, 0.011, 0.021w on mine when I got them - they seem a little lighter than my expectation. I would normally use 0.012 and 0.022w or even 0.024w for DAA with this scale length. What size were yours (if you can remember)?

Woods: you're right with sides and back, but I can't identify the top either. In fact, I struggle with many of the six I own. Most are hardwood, as this appears to be (one cedar), but all different and none obvious!

Are you playing it? If so, what kind of music? Any issues with it to date? - looks very original and in excellent condition. Feel free to ask any questions. Anyway, congratulations on a good purchase. Hope you enjoy.

Geoff Black

Revels Music

Clifford Glenn Dulcimer photos

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Pretty! Next must come the sound file so we all can drool over its sound as well as its beauty.

Clifford Glenn Dulcimer photos

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Yesterday I bought a Clifford Glenn dulcimer from a friend who picked it up at a local local auction. It has a little wear and I believe some water spots that I have not tried too hard yet to run out (if possible). The strings are corroded and who knows may be original(?).

One thing I don't if it's original is the screw on the tail when the three strings loop on. Anyone know?

Also trying to figure out what the wood is. The sides and bottom look like walnut to me and I have no idea about the top.

updated by @david-bennett: 06/11/15 07:36:32AM

Multiple key changes in a song?

Playing and jamming difficulties...HELP ME!

It's interesting Paul, how flexible the dulcimer can be for a non-chromatic instrument. I listened to that particular clip you found and I think it's in the same key all the way through - but I'd have to listen again to be sure. This arrangement I've been given to work from is a duet - soprano & alto parts. The key change is part of this particular arrangment - I've found a lot of hymns sung by the 2 church choirs I sing in have key changes - I used to think it was how the hymn was originally written, but perhaps it's a case of how this particular version of XYZ hymn has been arranged.

In any case, I only have to play chords for this one. The cellist is there to provide a tenor/bass harmony and so some kind of rhythmic accompaniment is needed, which is the chords on the dulcimer. You know I didn't think of looking at the chord fingerings and how they'd sound on a tuning that's EbBbEb. I will give it a try and compare it with the 1-3-5 tunings. That's a good suggestion thank you. I experimented tuning it all Eb or Bb and every chord was a barre chord! LOL. Barre chords are hard on my fingers, whereas other chord fingering positions are not - go figure.

Multiple key changes in a song?

Playing and jamming difficulties...HELP ME!

I'm not familiar with the song, so I searched it and found several versions. I listened to this one:

It sounds to be an ionian melody.

This one changes keys, most likely to allow the melody to change from soprano to tenor voices. If you were to sing this as a soloist, you could keep it in the vocal range best suited to your voice, eliminating the key change entirely. As an instrumental, the key change can add some variety, but isn't completely necessary. This is part of the "re thinking" I mentioned in my earlier post.

Still another possibility for this example is to tune to EbBbEb, and play the Eb section on the melody string, and the Bb section on the middle string. This likely would require the use of a 6+ fret, if you have one. Without the 6+ fret, you could tune to EbBbBb, and try playing the Eb section on the melody string, and the Bb section on the bass string.

These 2 keys have a lot of common notes and chords, which allows one tuning to overlap the keys fairly well. Many of us do this with the keys of D,G, and A when we use the DAD tuning. Some melody notes are found on the middle string, and some may require the 6+ fret, but the closeness of the scales does give us a lot of overlap. Sometimes when only one missing note impedes us, we bend the lower note to get it. We seldom need to bend the string more than a half step, though a whole step and more is possible. unless you like extra heavy gauge strings.

If the song requires 3 or more different keys, or If you play a lot of songs with key changes, you may find a 135 tuning, or a chromatic dulcimer will do the job best.

Paul

Multiple key changes in a song?

Playing and jamming difficulties...HELP ME!

Hi Dusty, you're not rambling and you explained it clearly so anyone without music theory could b understand. This is a hymn Crown him with many crowns and it starts off in Eb major then jumps to Bb major then back to Eb for last section. The key signatures change.

What I did today is work out the chords and yes I need to get them checked by someone who knows a lot more music theory than me. B u t I found 9 chord changes, major and minor.

Then using the Strothers chord wizard, and 1-3-5 tuning, I looked at how those 9 chords would be made whether I tuned it as Eb maj triad or Bb maj triad. The same 9 chords were used in both key changes.
It seems possible in either tuning - ie my fingers can reach, or else they're barre chords. Don't know how it sounds yet.

I guess the next step is to convert the melody line into tab so I can write in the fingering for those chords underneath. I was thinkibg of buying TablEdit anyway, so now I have a reason to get it. I have no idea how this is going to sound. This is for a fundraising concert for the choir, to be held end of July, so I've 5 weeks to figure something out. There will be 2 vocalists, me and cello playing tenor part. I just have to provide chords, no fiddly bits. Gonna be interesting trying to make it work!

Multiple key changes in a song?

Playing and jamming difficulties...HELP ME!

Ruth, I have to ask a question to ensure you are asking the right question.

Are you sure you are talking about "key" changes and not merely "chord" changes? The key corresponds to the keynote of the song, and in any given key, certain chords are likely. For example, a song that is in Eb will almost always have Ab and Bb as well. When a song moves from an Eb chord to a Bb chord, that is usually not a key change; it is merely a chord change. Any song will have a set of chord changes that is referred to as the chord progression, and in any given tuning, certain chord progressions are possible.

If you were to play "Go Tell Aunt Rhody," for example, in the key of Eb, there would be two chords: Eb and Bb. If you were to play "Bile Dem Cabbage Down" in the key of Eb, there would be three chords: Eb, Ab, and Bb. But in neither case is there a key change. Both songs are played in one key.

Sometimes songs really do change keys. In those cases the entire song moves from one keynote to another. And the most common key change is to move up a 4th to create an increased emotionality. For example, the Beatles song "Penny Lane" famously moves up a fourth towards the end. And sometimes that same shift can represent a lack of originality, as in the Stevie Wonder song "I Just Called to Say I Love You," where to avoid the appearance of excessive repetition the song moves up a fourth. When Whitney Houston moves up a fourth in "I Will Always Love You" it creates not only increased emotion, but increased awe because her voice demonstrates such range.

So there are songs that change keys, but they are rare. Most of the time a song begins and ends in a given key. And in that key, it will change chords several times. But if you are playing a song that moves between Eb and Bb, it is probably not changing keys, but merely changing chords.

If I am wrong here and you are indeed referring to key changes, please forgive my ramblings.

Multiple key changes in a song?

Playing and jamming difficulties...HELP ME!

Thanks for this info - I hadn't heard of this site before. I've ended up selecting a hymn that only has 2 key changes - Eb maj to Bb maj. I'm hoping that playing around with the tunings will make it doable.

Multiple key changes in a song?

Playing and jamming difficulties...HELP ME!

Yes, and not necessarily. It's impossible in those keys using the common 155/158 tunings, but may be possible if you rethink it.

One answer you might want to try is the 135 tuning. Have a look here, http://mountaindulcimer-1-3-5.com/ and try a song or two from their tabs. This tuning gives you the flexibility to deal with key changes.Probably what I would try first, if I didn't play other chromatic instruments.

Another possibility is to change keys to put all parts of a medley in the same key. One tuning will cover them all, unless the songs use accidentals, in which case you may still be looking for an answer.

I would try the 135 tuning first, and see where it takes you.

Paul

Multiple key changes in a song?

Playing and jamming difficulties...HELP ME!

Hi, I was asked recently to look through a selection of hymn duets and find something that I could play dulcimer to (chords probably). But last night when I sat down to look at them I realised all these hymns are either medleys or have multiple key changes. Eg, D major to E flat major to F major. It's impossible on a dulcimer isn't it?

updated by @ruth-lawrence: 06/11/15 07:36:25AM

Capritaurus -- seeking info on recent purchase

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

The plywood dulcimers were made as a group effort.

Mark Richardson said:

Looks nice.. I have something similar and still trying to find out its maker... It came with Capritarus paper work... a actual manual and diagram and how to tune, from Capritarus.... NO label inside. I figured it around 73 or earlier...Neil Hellman took a look and couldn't tell its maker, as its not of the Model D ( I have an 83 Walnut Model D, and owned several Model D's in the early 70's).

Capritaurus -- seeking info on recent purchase

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Mike, you do have a piece of history there and a fine instrument as well. I have one of the earliest ones with pegs (pics on my page) and love it's tone (though I don't play it as much as I should.) Enjoy!

Rob

Capritaurus -- seeking info on recent purchase

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Its a Capritaurus walnut with spruce top made prior to "folk Roots". Looks great!

Howard

Mike Anderson said:

Dusty Turtle said:

Mike, perhaps you already know the basic story of Capritaurus. But if not, Howard Rugg tells us in his own words:

Thanks Dusty I was fortunate enough to be able to watch and enjoy those. Funny enough I was living in the Village on Bleeker street in the 60s and I think some of those were my twins on the west coast.

Capritaurus -- seeking info on recent purchase

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Hello Mike

The picture above looks like it might be made from a kit, its not exactly shaped like an origional Capritaurus. Do you have a picture of your dulcimer? The earlier 70ies Capritaurus were not marked with model and serial no. on the label. The real early had a large scroll with violin pegs. We have not figured out when we first started using guitar machine tuners yet.

Howard

Capritaurus -- seeking info on recent purchase

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Mike, perhaps you already know the basic story of Capritaurus. But if not, Howard Rugg tells us in his own words:

Capritaurus -- seeking info on recent purchase

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Mike Andersonposted the following:

I just purchased a Capritaurus and wonder if there is a way to date it? The label has no serial numbers or signatures that I can see. I have seen several pictures and it appears to be a generic with heart-shaped soundholes and not custom. This is what mine look like but the picture is from Wikipedia:

Mike then added: I saw one of Howard's posts and he was referring to actual serial numbers. It appears to be a Model D if applicable to the Folk Roots name. I will get a flash light and do a closer exam.

updated by @dusty: 02/17/19 05:30:42PM

I've always played this a little differently( ... | 0 1 0 2 | 1 - 0 - ), but no idea where I got the tune from. Badly remembered most likely ... we'll call it the folk process

Here's the A and B parts according to Suzuki :

john

On his "Short Time Here" CD (Walnut Mountain 904) Don Pedi sings a hilarious, almost Monty Pythonesque, version of Aunt Rhody (called "Aunt Nancy"), which he learned from the singing of the great Ozark ballad singer Almeda Riddle. This uses the AABA format - very close to the music as given by Stephen.

To me Rhody has always sounded like a simple lullaby that a mother might typically make up while singing to her baby. I used to make up such melodies myself as a young mother trying to get my babies to sleep, but I can't remember now any of the tunes I invented so long ago. Many were somewhat rhody-esque in one way or another. Other lullabies I sang were in Spanish and had the same simplicity as Rhody too, these were in Puerto Rico where my babies were born.

You are right. I should be more careful in the future. I WOULD like to know the truth.

Strumelia said:

Hi Stephen, I wouldn't conclude that Aunt Rhody came from a hymn, based on a 1930's 78 recording. I'd be much more likely to guess the hymn on the 78 was built around the old melody, since traditional melodies are so frequently borrowed and new lyrics are applied, and vice versa of course.

The current familiar Rhody song with melody was written down in books already in 1913 and 1918 in appalachian ballad collections, and had already been passed down for a while by then, but the melody was also apparently included in a 1752 folk opera by Jean Rousseau, and was sung by a shepherdess character. Perhaps Rosseau was the Aaron Copland of his time, incorporating traditional rural folk tunes into his musicals...

Stephen Seifert said:

The melody of Go Tell Aunt Rhodie is from an old hymn. I've got a recording of an old 78 (maybe from the 30's) of a guy playing and singing Go Tell Aunt Rhodie to the exact melody of the hymn (I can't think of the name right now) and the form is AABA.... Could someone help us find the hymn?

Hi Stephen, I wouldn't conclude that Aunt Rhody came from a hymn, based on a 1930's 78 recording. I'd be much more likely to guess the hymn on the 78 was built around the old melody, since traditional melodies are so frequently borrowed and new lyrics are applied, and vice versa of course.

The current familiar Rhody song with melody was written down in books already in 1913 and 1918 in appalachian ballad collections, and had already been passed down for a while by then, but the melody was also apparently included in a 1752 folk opera by Jean Rousseau, and was sung by a shepherdess character. Perhaps Rosseau was the Aaron Copland of his time, incorporating traditional rural folk tunes into his musicals...

Stephen Seifert said:

The melody of Go Tell Aunt Rhodie is from an old hymn. I've got a recording of an old 78 (maybe from the 30's) of a guy playing and singing Go Tell Aunt Rhodie to the exact melody of the hymn (I can't think of the name right now) and the form is AABA.... Could someone help us find the hymn?

From a harmonic perspective, that looks like a legit B part since it goes to the IV chord (fret 5) in the same measures where the A part goes to the V chord (first fret).

The hymn is "Lord, Dismiss Us With Thy Blessing."

But it is also credited to Schubert as "Rousseau's Dream," and this version provides some nice ideas for variations (although it also goes off into places only Oscar Peterson would understand).

The melody of Go Tell Aunt Rhodie is from an old hymn. I've got a recording of an old 78 (maybe from the 30's) of a guy playing and singing Go Tell Aunt Rhodie to the exact melody of the hymn (I can't think of the name right now) and the form is AABA. Here's a quarter-note version. (You add the extra strums.) I use this B almost every time I play it. Make sure every time through you play AABA, AABA, etc. Could someone help us find the hymn?

1st A:

2 - 2 1 | 0 - 0 - | 1 - 1 3 | 2 1 0 -

4 - 4 3 | 2 - 2 - | 1 0 1 2 | 0 - 0 -

2nd A:

2 - 2 1 | 0 - 0 - | 1 - 1 3 | 2 1 0 -

4 - 4 3 | 2 - 2 - | 1 0 1 2 | 0 - 0 -

B:

2 - 2 3 | 4 - 4 - | 5 - 5 - | 4 3 2 -

2 - 2 3 | 4 - 4 - | 5 - 5 - | 4 - - -

3rd A:

2 - 2 1 | 0 - 0 - | 1 - 1 3 | 2 1 0 -

4 - 4 3 | 2 - 2 - | 1 0 1 2 | 0 - 0 -

Hey Dulcimer Jim,

Technically a "B" part refers to a second part of a song, meaning a different melody and different chord progression. Most fiddle tunes, for example, have an A part and a B part. In general you play the A part twice and then the B part twice. In songs with words, often the B part is just a chorus that is repeated after each verse.

What you seem to be looking for would be better termed "variations." That is, you are searching for variations on a tune so that you can play several verses without repeating yourself. In that sense, whether Wayne's B part is a harmony part or not is less important than the fact that it differs (or varies) from the standard melody and allows you to play another variation on the melody.

What I would urge you do to is not necessarily memorizea variation that someone else has played, but get ideas from those variations and see if you can come up with something on your own. One reason we use Bile Dem Cabbage as an introductory song is that so many variations are possible and the song can be a catalyst for igniting the imagination of each individual player. Even your initial premise of doing a calypso version of Rhody is an example of creating a rhythmic variation of a tune, so you are well on your way to creating interesting music of your own!

No need to apologize, Wayne. Dulcimer Jim was looking fornew ideas to add to his version of Go Tell Aunt Rhody, and you certainly gave him that.

Haveyou tried to play the two parts together?Try playing the second part over your recording of the first part. I bet they would sound really good.

Wayne Anderson said:

Sorry guys, I was just trying to help out on a question that was asked

Harmony or Part B, Really sounds like a nice addition.

Dusty Turtle said:

I had never heard of a B part to Rhody either. I would guess that what Wayne is playing as a B part is actually a harmony part. It sounds like the two parts he plays would sound great played simultaneously.

The B part is on Jean Ritchie's "The Most Dulcimer" album, "Aunt Rhodie R I P."

I had never heard of a B part to Rhody either. I would guess that what Wayne is playing as a B part is actually a harmony part. It sounds like the two parts he plays would sound great played simultaneously.

There is no traditional B part to Aunt Rhody, but it is possible someone has written something to use as one. Why not just sing it as is?

Paul

Okay Wayne, I'm a little dense and need a map. Where would one find this audio clip?

Free tabs: More German folk songs

Dulcimer Resources:TABS/Books/websites/DVDs

Thank you all. Glad you like it.

@Ken: To be honest: "Morgenrot" is not among the German folk songs I usually sing - I had to look it up. But my wife remembered the tune when I played it.

I tabbed it today in DAD and in DAA (but I don't have a DAA-tuned dulcimer and didn't want to retune my DAD dulcimer. So I tried it on my Raffele which is tuned in DAA and I hope it works on a regular DAA-dulcimer as well!)

The author of the lyrics lived (more or less) in the area I grew up. Interesting that it was sung during the Civil War as well.
I'll join the group dealing with the Civil War era and upload the files there.
I hope it is the song you meant!

Free tabs: More German folk songs

Dulcimer Resources:TABS/Books/websites/DVDs

Really nice collection of German folk music Peter. Keep up the good work!

How about a tab for Morgen Rot? Then we can add it to the discussion on American Civil War songs. It was sung on the Yankee/Northern side of the ACW, although I understand that it is much older than that (Thirty Years War?).

Free tabs: More German folk songs

Dulcimer Resources:TABS/Books/websites/DVDs

Thanks, Garey and Robin!

@Garey - I have added a short summary about the meaning of the songs. I want to add the German lyrics, but I'll have to type them first.
Yes, I have seen some tabs where only the melody is in the music notes line. But I also like to have a visible idea of the chords I use, and I think the musical notes help. Best of all is if all know it by heart at the end! Some days ago I have uploaded two of the songs at everythingdulcimer.com. But I do not read there very often.

@Robin: Yes, I think some of them can be played noter-drone. Great to know, that some of the old folks are "international". For a long time I thought, the song "Lang, lang ist's her" was a German folk song. When I wanted to tab it, I learned that the composer was British ("Long, long ago")...
Ah, and Elvis actually learned to know "Muss i denn" when he served for the US Army and was based in Bad Nauheim, Germany for some time...