Forum Activity for @foundryrat

I understand why, ideally, string gage will vary with the tuned pitch, but what if you want the capability to shift between DAA and DAd? String for DAd and put up with potentially slack melody string for DAA or "cheat" a little bit on the melody string gage and make it .001 heavier?

I enjoy seeing the responses, folks! 

Playing mountain dulcimer with a noter is all I know-- I enjoy it tremendously!  And there are MD players who play styles of music I enjoy yet could never hope to play.  If a chromatic mountain dulcimer is what is called for to play the music a dulcimer player wants to make, then a chromatic fretboard it must be!  :)

With both dulcimers and banjos, I don't necessarily see it as all about the number of frets or non-frets, but more a matter of the style the instrument is played in, which is usually closely connected to the repertoire (but doesn't always have to be).

I have diatonic epinettes, mtn dulcimers with one or a few extra frets, a chromatic langspil, and both (chromatic) fretted banjos and fretless banjos.  They're ALL great for doing various things- playing in various playing styles, playing repertoire from different time periods or different music cultures and genres.  Each one has its own wonderful charms.  If you have diverse taste in music, it's great to have a selection of instruments/tools to get the effect you're after!

I wonder if the same conversations, etc., occur concerning fretted and fretless banjos.

I did an experiment back when I first added a plus fret and repeated it with my first chromatic MD. I played a couple of tunes on my diatonic, then on the one with the added fret and the chromatic. They all sounded and played the same, by golly [and my other half couldn't tell the difference].    I don't use a noter though, and that can make a bit of difference because of the extra 'bumps/thump's.

I don't think it's so much that it sounds like a guitar.  The logic is basically "If you want to play a fully chromatic instrument, why don't you just play an instrument like a guitar (or banjo or mandolin, etc.) that is already chromatic?"

The purists would say that the diatonic fret pattern is a defining feature of the dulcimer.  As you begin to change one of the dulcimer's defining characteristics, the instrument is moving away from being a dulcimer and transitioning into a hybrid instrument.  Not a guitar exactly, but beginning to look and play more like a guitar and less like a dulcimer.

To get the sound of a guitar, you would need to increase the size of the dulcimer's soundbox, extend the neck/fretboard beyond the soundbox, increase the number of strings, and adjust the gauges of the strings.  Each of these changes is a movement in the direction of the guitar and away from the dulcimer.

If the only change made is to fret the dulcimer chromatically instead of diatonically, then the instrument will still sound more like a dulcimer.  However, it will have some of the playing features of the guitar.

Some Common Features of Each Instrument:

Dulcimer = Smaller Soundbox, Diatonic Fretboard, Fretboard Does Not Extend Beyond Soundbox, Fewer Strings, Lighter Gauge Strings, Played on Lap with Fretboard Facing Up

Guitar = Larger Soundbox, Chromatic Fretboard, Fretboard/Neck Extends Beyond the Soundbox, More Strings, Heavier Gauge Strings, Played with Hand Reaching Under and Around the Neck

Putting a chromatic fretboard on a dulcimer body without changing any other features results in a chromatic dulcimer.  Not exactly a guitar, but a step in that direction.

Incidentally, there is nothing wrong with playing an instrument modified from its traditional form.  Likewise, there is also nothing wrong with preferring to keep the instrument in its purest, most traditional form.  To each their own.  What you play and how you play it are decisions to be made by each individual.  Basically, if you enjoy playing it, that's all that's necessary.

I never did understand it when people say if you put extra frets on a dulcimer, it sounds like a guitar.  If you put extra frets on a mandolin does it sound like a guitar?  Oh wait... the mandolin already has extra frets!  So do banjos and ukuleles.  None of them sound like guitars to me. 

Now if somebody wants to make the argument that playing chords instead of drones makes the dulcimer sound like a guitar, well I still disagree but I can understand where they're coming from.

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That can sometimes be attributed to a string that is not tight enough for the note it's being tuned to. With a slightly too slack string, your finger pushes the string right down to the wood much more easily, bending/pulling it to sound a bit sharp.  Also a slightly slack string will much more likely hit the frets when it's vibrating.  Again, for both these issues, I suggest you put on a wound bass string that is not so thin as your current .022.    Try a .024 wound.

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I see.  I will definitely try that.  Hope it works and will let you know! 

That can sometimes be attributed to a string that is not tight enough for the note it's being tuned to. With a slightly too slack string, your finger pushes the string right down to the wood much more easily, bending/pulling it to sound a bit sharp.  Also a slightly slack string will much more likely hit the frets when it's vibrating.  Again, for both these issues, I suggest you put on a wound bass string that is not so thin as your current .022.    Try a .024 wound.

@ Kusani

Thanks, what's weird is that the string is in tune when played open, but sharpens when you use the frets.  That doesn't make sense to me.

[quote="Strumelia"]

"I suggest you try a new bass string, and try one that is just one size thicker-  like a wound .23 or .24 instead of your .22 . That will increase the tension a bit so it won't buzz against any frets while vibrating. 
Also, the windings on an old string may have flattened out a bit at the nut or bridge area, slowly lowering the string by just enough to start creating buzzes.... a new string would solve that as well.  

Wound bass strings tend to be the first string to age and start sounding 'dead' anyway- so it's a good thing to replace the wound thick string on your instrument if it's getting old."

Thank you, Strumelia!  I will try that as well.  The strings are new since last August but I really don't know how long strings are supposed to last.  I play every day for a good 30-60 minutes, so they're getting a pretty good workout.

[quote="Skip"]

I suggest  you check the string height first. Try sliding a dime under the strings right next to the 1st fret. It will probably drag or not fit if the slot in the nut has worn a bit. Call the Dulcimer Shop for advice and order another nut also. The bridge should also be checked by sliding a nickel on top of the 7th fret. 

Thank you, Skip!  The nickel fit, the dime did not.  I definitely think the strings are too close to the 1st fret and some adjustment will need to be made.  The string is definitely buzzing off the 1st fret.  Thanks for the tip!

The mountain dulcimer and the guitar have very different timbres.  Some music, music requiring "extra frets", can sound wonderful, more intimate on mountain dulcimer (as opposed to, say, guitar).  

For centuries, luthiers and musicians have adapted instruments and styles of play for any number of reasons.  And chromatic mountain dulcimers exist in this living tradition.  

I suggest you try a new bass string, and try one that is just one size thicker-  like a wound .23 or .24 instead of your .22 . That will increase the tension a bit so it won't buzz against any frets while vibrating. 
Also, the windings on an old string may have flattened out a bit at the nut or bridge area, slowly lowering the string by just enough to start creating buzzes.... a new string would solve that as well.  

Wound bass strings tend to be the first string to age and start sounding 'dead' anyway- so it's a good thing to replace the wound thick string on your instrument if it's getting old.

I suggest  you check the string height first. Try sliding a dime under the strings right next to the 1st fret. It will probably drag or not fit if the slot in the nut has worn a bit. Call the Dulcimer Shop for advice and order another nut also. The bridge should also be checked by sliding a nickel on top of the 7th fret. 

The toothpick effectively shortens the VSL.

By slightly raising the string you have increased the tension ever so slightly which could cause it to be 'slightly' sharp down the entire fretboard. Retune that one string and see what happens. 

Hello,

I bought a custom McSpadden dulcimer about one year ago, after deciding to learn how to play, and I have really enjoyed it.  It has a wonderful, mellow sound and has been a pleasure to play … until now.  Within the last few days, my base string has started buzzing in an annoying way.  It looks to me like the vibrating string is hitting the first fret.  (It might be my imagination but I believe the melody string is starting to sympathetically buzz as well, as of today.)

I have read every Forum Discussion on buzzing strings on this site.  Someone suggested using a toothpick to raise the string slightly.  Well, when I did that, the buzzing stopped but every note down the string was off key (slightly sharp), which doesn't make a lot of sense to me since the adjustment is right up to the nut. The base string is original and is a wrapped .22 string.  I read where someone said a newer string might buzz more than an older string in one of the forums, so I don't think the age of the string is a factor.

I play my dulcimer every single day and I am wondering if I have already worn something out!  Is it possible for a nut or the grooves in the nut to deepen?  I feel nervous about having someone work on it because I am wondering how they are going to fix it without messing it up.  

Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated since I am fairly new to the dulcimer world.

Many thanks!

It's going to be a wonderful time. Looking forward to seeing many of you there.

Thanks, Ken! See you there!

Hi Folks -- looking forward to meeting and playing with you next week.  We have a request for those of you staying in the dorms.  We need you to bring cash, not checks or cards, to pay for your lodging ($60 for the 3 nights, $80 if you plan to show up a day early). 

Since we don't have a "festival bank account", one of us hosts must write the College a single large check for the total amount of lodging; and by paying the Committee cash at registration, there won't be any risk.

Thanks in advance.  See you soon.

--Ken 

I have a CSH Folkcraft Dulcimer with flat peghead and three tuners/three equidistant strings.  It measures approximately 39 inches in total length.  I also have a McSpadden with the padded case that comes standard with a McSpadden purchase.  The Folkcraft CSH is about 3 to 4 inches too long for the McSpadden Case.  Folkcraft's case is 41 inches long.  McSpadden's case is only 36 inches long.

Bottom line, the standard Folkcraft CSH dulcimer will not fit into the McSpadden Case.  It looks like you won't be able to use the McSpadden case for your Folkcraft dulcimer purchase.

The Folkcraft CSH dulcimer does fit into a Craggy Mountain Brown Padded Case (available from Craggy Mountain for about $45.00 plus shipping).  The Craggy Mountain Case is a good quality case.  Folkcraft Padded Cases may be made in the USA by Folkcraft.  The McSpadden Padded Cases are made in Thailand these days, and the Craggy Mountain Case is made in China.

Susie

If you don't get some responses, the Folkcraft folks are great to deal with. They will answer the phone or call back if you need to leave a message.

I'm thinking of ordering a Folkcraft FSH or CSH in all hickory. I have a spare McSpadden case that I would like to use (I like the cases with the side walls better than the envelope style that comes with these Folkcraft models), but I need to know the overall length of either of these models (which have identical measurements) with a flat head. Can anyone provide that to me? I know the width measurements, that's no problem.

I would appreciate it, thanks!

No matter what the key of the song is, the chords stay in the same place as long as you do not re-tune. 

Beginning dulcimer players are often told to re-tune every time they want to play in a different key.  But this is not necessary and it's simply not practical if you're spending an evening playing with chromatic instruments like ukes.  The better answer is to pick ONE tuning and stay there.

Most chord players choose DAD tuning and this is good for the keys of D and G, but less convenient for the uke-friendly keys of C and G.  If you intend to play with ukes often, you might consider abandoning DAD and concentrate on learning the chords for CGC or GDG instead.

Or... stay in DAD and add a 1-1/2 fret, which makes it feasible to play chords for the keys of D, G, C, F and their relative minor keys.  

As for the capo, it actually does not change where notes are located.  If you play a G chord at 3-3-5, you still play a G chord on those same frets even when there's a capo on the first fret. 

Dusty, thanks for the more complete reply. I was just heading out this morning when I saw this post and offered a quick reply. I put new strings on my uke and use a D tuning. It is much easier to play to with the dulcimers that way.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Katie, there is one correction I have to make to a comment below.  In a DAd or DAA tuning on a diatonic dulcimer, you cannot play an F chord.  There is no F natural on the fretboard.  (You can get an F chord if you tune to C (CGG or CGc) and then using the same fingering you are used to for a G chord. More on that below.)  Perhaps this transposition chart will help.

So how to use that chart?  The key issue is the relationship of a note or a chord to the other notes and chords of the same key. In the key of D, D is I chord, G is the IV chord, and A is the V chord.  If you want to play that same song in the key of G, you use the same numbered chords, so whenever you had used a D chord, you now use a G chord, whenever you had used a G chord, you now use a C chord, and whenever you had used an A chord, you use a D chord.  You can also refer to chords by their names as indicated, but I find that unnecessarily confusing.  I put that information on the chart because you will sometimes hear people refer to some of those names.

That chart can also tell you how to use a capo.  If you are tuned DAd, you know that 002 is a D chord, 013 is a G chord, and 101 is an A chord.  If you put the capo at the 3rd fret, you are now in G, but you can use that same fingering, pretending the capo is the nut, and 002 (really 335) is a G chord, 013 (really 346) is a C chord, and 101 (really 434) is an D chord.

I would suggest playing around with a capo by playing a song you know, then putting the capo on the 3rd fret and playing the same song the same way you did before. You will see that everything works the same way but you are now in a higher register and a different key. You can also put the capo at 4 to play in A, though you have to watch out for that 6+ fret.

So with a capo, you can play in the keys of D, G, and A.  To get the key of C, I would suggest tuning down a note to CGc.  Then the same thing applies. If you play 002, you are playing the I chord, meaning C chord, if you play 013 your are playing the IV chord, meaning an F chord, and if you play 101 you are playing the V chord, meaning a G chord.

That's how I would approach playing in the main keys of C, D, G, and A in a multi-instrument jam.

And these same principles can get you funkier keys.  What if a singer comes in and wants to play in F?  You don't have an F on the dulcimer in DAD or DAA, but F is the IV in the key of C, just as G is the IV in the key of D.  When we tuned DAd, we got the key of G by using the capo at the 3rd fret, so we can just tune CGc, put the capo a the 3rd fret, and we are now in the key of F.  In other words, whatever key you are tuned to, you get the IV by capoing at 3 and the V by capoing at 4.

If all of this makes you dizzy, just know that if you know the alphabet from A to G, and you can count to 8, you can figure all of this out yourself.  

Contact the club and ask if they welcome other instruments.  A few clubs are doctrinaire about ukes-only; you wouldn't want to join them anyway, they're no fun!  Then ask for a copy of the songbook.  Like Dusty says, you'll want to study up in advance.  Look at the chords you'll need... and DO NOT PANIC.  You don't have to play on every song.  And you don't have to play every chord; you can mute the strings when there's a chord you don't know.

A beginner-friendly club in the US (where ukes are generally tuned GCEA) will mostly play in the keys of C and G.  If you show up ready to play these six chords you should be in good shape:

C major
G major
F major
D major
A minor
E minor

It's nice to add the 7th chords (C7, G7, Em7 and so on) but really they are optional.  The uke players will be adding a 7th note to some of their chords and it won't matter if you do; the notes you're playing are compatible.  You could learn the theory behind this or just take my word for it.

I play all of these chords on an MD tuned DAd with a 1-1/2 fret and 6-1/2 fret.  If you don't have a 1-1/2 fret, you can tune to CGC as Ken suggests.  Another option is to tune a short-scale dulcimer(or a baritone) to GDG which puts you in the key of G; capo at the 3rd fret for the key of C.    

We're all assuming you play chords.  When in Rome... strum chords and sing like the uke players.  It would be difficult (not impossible) to fit noter/drone into a uke club.  If you ever try it and the drones aren't working -- which they probably aren't -- you can stop playing the drone strings and play single-note melody or harmony.

If this all seems too overwhelming at first, go visit a uke club just to listen and sing along.  Talk to people and you may find others who play dulcimer (or would like to learn).  Even if you decide the club isn't a good fit for you, it can still be a good place to meet other musicians. 

CAUTION:  No matter how much you protest, they will force a uke into your hands and show you how to play a C-major chord.  My local club has two loaner ukes and we force them on restaurant customers, passersby, wait staff and children.  I swear there are neighborhood dogs who know how to play a C-major.  Ukulele Acquisition Syndrome (UAS) is a dangerous malady made even worse in conjunction with DAD/DAA.  Do not ask me how I know this.  Save yourself.

Katie, you've gotten some excellent advice.  Don't be overwhelmed by chords.  There are a limited number of chords that are used with any frequency.  And keep in mind, the same chords are used in many different keys.  The D chord for instance occurs in the Key of D Major, the Key of G Major, and the Key of A Major.  In each instance, the notes that form the D chord are the same.  Their position on the fretboard only changes if you have changed the tuning of the strings.

If you can play a C chord, a D chord, an E chord, an F chord, a G chord, and an A chord, you will be well on your way.  As others have suggested start with a single key and learn the three primary chords for that key.  Notice that some chords occur over and over again.

Key of C = C, F, G Chords

Key of D = D, G, A chords

Key of A =  A, D, E chords

Key of G = G, C, D chords

Fresh peas . . .

I love sardines, I'm picking asparagus, sells so fast never have any for myself. The frozen food company down road is cutting spinach, fresh pea harvesting starts soon. Looking forward to enjoying garden fresh food again.