Forum Activity for @curtis-carlisle-bouterse

Somehow I ended up with quite a collection of Ledfords. Most are identifiable from the master list (which, naturally is not complete). I have several early ones including two before he started numbering. Recently, however I acquired one which did not have a number assigned. [There is one on the list unnumbered.]

It has staple frets (long 3rd), early style hearts, and an unusual construction for the fine tuners. It was made of yellow poplar (very dark brown) from 150-y.o. church pews, which locates it from 1969 to, perhaps, 1979. The label also has "Winchester, Kentucky" spelled out.

I'm trying to zero in on an approximate date; does anyone else have one with a dark poplar top and/or a "Kentucky" label and/or the tail plate with fine tuners.

 Ledford. no #. .jpg - 161KB

McSpadden is what I chose as my first and never regretted it.  It is now my loaner. 

McSpadden would be a great and reliable choice in your price range.  It's very well regarded, sounds wonderful, and you can resell it easily later on if you want.

A four string model gives you the option to play with three or four strings. Almost all modern dulcimers come with a 6 1/2 fret and its octave 13 1/2. If you plan to play in DAdd tuning those extra frets will come in handy. If you plan to play in DAAA all the time, the 6 1/2 can be a pain (only because it gives you a little extra bump sliding up to the seventh fret.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

McSpadden,not McFadden

Thanks for all your responses!

I live in Long Island NY. Does anyone have a contact in the New York City area?

Money is not the main concern.

My kids are giving it to me as a 65th birthday present so I can pick a quality instrument in the $400 to $550 range.

McFadden has a nice web page where you can hear the sounds of different instruments; I'm tempted to buy one of theirs or buy a used one. They were also recommended by Jessica Comeau with whom I've had a correspondence. She seems very helpful. I emailed McFadden and will also call them after Christmas.

From my research, for my first instrument, I should get a 4 string model with 61/2 frets set to D. Is that correct?

Mark -- first thing you'll learn in the dulcimer world is that there is not such thing as "best".  The 'best' anything is what works for you... not someone else.

With 40 years experience as a dulcimer builder and player, my advice is to start with a "Student" model dulcimer such as the one made by Dave "Harpmaker" at www.sweetwoodsinstruments.com His student model is an excellent starting place without being terribly expensive.  There are two or three other student models out there.  I own one of Dave's and use it as a loaner. 

If money is a real issue, start with one of the cardboard dulcimers for about $75.  The fretboard is the important part of the instrument, and those fretboards are spot on.  When you decide you like the dulcimer, you -- or someone you know -- can make you a nice wooden body, to which you transfer the fretboard from your cardboard starter.   I did that recently for one of my students...

Builders like Dave will play their instruments for you over the phone, but generally don't have other builder's instruments to compare.  Without much knowledge of dulcimers, listening to "the sound" isn't that useful because instruments in different tunings will sound different and you won't recognize the difference.

Where are you in "the Northeast"?  We might be able to point you to someone.  Chances are you'll not find dulcimers walking into music stores unless they specialize in acoustic music, and then you'll probably only find one "brand".  A dulcimer Festival is the best place to check out lots of different dulcimers, but it will be a couple months before 'festival season' kicks in.

There is a ton of information here at FOTMD; start reading. As Lisa suggests, join the Beginner Group and start looking there.

Mark, I don't know where you are in the Northeast, but there are some dulcimer festivals coming up. One is near Albany, NY (Latham) the first weekend in March. Another is in East Stroudsburg, PA the last weekend in April. There will be several vendors at both festivals where you can try different dulcimers. I would beware of dulcimers in the $100-$250 range unless they are well cared for used instruments. Also, look at some of the individual builders who do quality work and sell dulcimers for less than the prices you mentioned.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Mark, i'm encouraging you to join our site's Beginner Group (click on Groups link at top of page)- and read several discussions there about advice on buying a first dulcimer- lots of good info there!    Be aware to in order to read the actual discussions ib Groups, you have to JOIN that group.  You can unjoin the group eaisily at any time, btw.

Beware of that big site that has paid to come up on top when you do searches for 'best dulcimer'. I saw that site and it's really just a big paid links ad disguised as a helpful dulcimer site. it's content simply consists of stuff they've pulled from other sites, too... they have not created their own content.

I am interested in buying a new dulcimer. I have never played a string instrument. I originally wanted to buy a banjo but I understand that the dulcimer has fewer strings and easier learning curve.  The other option would be a ukelele. I then heard Jessica Comeau on You Tube and was hooked. 

Does this logic make sense? I love folk music so the dulcimer sounds very attractive.

Now the problem. I can't find a dulcimer vendor in the Northeast to compare instruments. I would like to compare sounds. Can one do that online?

New McSpadden and Folkcraft instruments are expensive ($475 and up). Online searches for best dulcimers show instruments in $100-250 range.

Please help!

Pondoro -- did I give you copies of my articles for newcomers? I Just Got A Dulcimer, Now What?  is an illustrated glossary of dulcimer terms so we all speak the same jargon, plus andswers to many beginner questions about tuning, playing,care and feeding of your new instrument.  Here they are 

Get Noterized.pdf - 87KB

Pondoro, the way to describe your various notes in the different octaves would be:

D3 (bass string), A3 (middle string), d4/d4 for the double course of melody strings.  DAdd

My six string baritone had the name Blact(?) Richardson(2013) and my walnut four string is marked "Laurence Chapman"(2008). I couldn't figure out the first name on my six string, it could just be bad penmanship.

I'm not sure that any single person actually makes any one McSpad.  I understood that the group collectively makes the parts and performs the assemblies and at the appropriate time maker's labels with different names are applied to each instrument.   

Does anyone have a list of luthiers that have worked for McSpadden Dulcimers?  Of course, there is Lynn McSpadden, his brother, Larry McSpadden, and George Looney.  But who are the others?  Feel free to add to the list if you know the names of the others.

I've got a McSpadden made by a _________ Lang in 2016, but I can't make out his or her first name on the interior label.  Can anyone help me identify the McSpadden luthier who made this instrument?

So I ordered Terry's new capo and it works fine. The measurements were the same on the Bella, 10" radius FB, same width and heighth. It's easy to use and works fine. It was so nice to finally be able to play with the 4th fret capo'ed. I love this Bella Dulcimer so much that now I don't want to play anything else! 

Thank you both very much for your responses, now let’s see if th USPS can get it here in time for Christmas!

I purchased a Walnut Valley dulcimer in Early 1993 and kept it until 2017. I sold it to a lady in our club who wanted it. Then I found one nearly like it earlier this year that appeared to have been bought but left unplayed in its case. So I now have a Walnut Valley once again. I really like the Walnut Valley. It is quite versatile. I have played it noter drone and with 4 equidistant strings using the noter. It sounds good in multiple modes and tunings. I don't think you would be disappointed with a Walnut Valley.

Both are good instruments.  I have a Walnut Valley brochure. If you PM me your email address, I will send you a pdf of the brochure. I tried to do it here, but it didn't work.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Thanks Pondoro for catching my mistake. It should be 1-5-5 or 1-5-8. That's what happens when I watch football and try to respond to posts on FOTMD. I've corrected my posts.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Ok. I'm at my inlaws now but as soon as I get home I'll swap strings around and probably order a couple of new sets, these look a bit rusty. Then I'll have questions about chord melody.

Howdy all,

I’m in the market for a new instrument ( because when are we not?) and I found a couple I like. One was made in the 90’s by a company named Walnut Valley. I find very little info on them, but it is a gorgeous instrument. And I’d love to know more about them.

The other is a Black Mountain model 58D, I can find plenty on them and it too is a beautiful Dulcimer...but it may be sold, will find out this weekend. So, if you could only buy one of these ....Which would it be and why? Thank you in advance for your expertise and Merry Christmas to all.

Dave

Joy to the World is a good example showing the difference between DAA and DAd tuning.

The song 'sits' in a different place on the fret board with each of those two tunings.

In DAA (where the home/tonic note is on the 3rd fret) you would start those first 4 notes (Joy to the world) on these frets: 10, 9, 8, 7.  The next 4 notes will be on frets :  6, 5, 4, 3.  (the 10th fret is the highest note in the whole song)  You will be able to play the entire song on the melody string alone, with accompanying open drone strings. You will be using the 6 fret but not the 6.5 fret.

In DAd tuning (the home tonic note is on the open melody string) you would start those first 4 notes (Joy to the world) on these frets: 7, 6.5, 5, 4.  The next 4 notes will be on frets :  3, 2, 1, 0.  (the 7th fret is the highest note in the whole song)  You ALSO will be able to play the entire song on the melody string alone, with accompanying open drone strings. BUT if you want to make chords, you can fret all strings.  You will be using the 6.5 fret but not the 6 fret. 

Ken, 158 and 155

@ Pondoro;

Playing on just the melody string is called noter drone or finger dancing. Playing across all three strings is chord/melody. Although the dulcimer is a stringed instrument it is, musically, more like the a standard harmonica [diatonic]. Because of this some things that apply to those other instruments don't work the same on the MD.

Thanks! I've already learned that Joy to the World needs the 6-1/2 fret. So to drop below the bottom note on my melody strings I can jump to the middle string? (Once I switch the strings around to be right). Nice to know. 

You can play by fretting the melody only on the melody string (or the double melody course) and leaving the other strings to sound open as DRONES.... OR you can fret all strings with your finger and make CHORDS that way, and maybe use flatpicking. That's called chord/melody style and it's the more modern style of playing.  If playing on only the melody string, many folks find DAA tuning more useful.  If chording, many folks find DAd more useful.  However, either tuning can be used for both styles of playing.  

A good way to start out (after you reverse those strings! haha) is to just pick a very simple tune to play, and get your tuning right and try to play it... either on the melody string with open drones, or by making simple chords by fretting all strings. Dont' try to understand everything at first-  it's too much to process mentally. Best way is to try a simple tune, maybe Jingle Bells, or I Saw Three Ships, or Good King Wencislas (did I spell that right?).  Remember what Ken said- if you're in DAA tuning, the key note/home note will be on your third fret.  If in DAd tuning, the home/key note will be on your Open melody string. (sometimes referred to as the "zero fret").

Most folks today play in either DAAA or DAdd. Both work fine with American folk music. The advantage of using DAAA when beginning dulcimer is that the musical scale begins at the 3rd fret. In DAdd the scale starts on the open fret which means you need to play some of the melody on the middle string. Mountain dulcimers are usually strung with a melody string (often doubled), a middle string, and a bass string. It makes me think that the your bass string is not in the right place. From what you have told us so far you might be leaning toward chord/melody style playing which is more people play in DAdd also known as 1 - 5- 8 tuning or mixolydian mode. DAA is 1 -5-5 tuning or ionian mode. Old Joe Clark is a mixolydian tune which need the 6 1/2 fret to sound good. During the Christmas season I am playing many carols in DAA. When I play Silent Night, I go as high as the 13th fret. Today there seem to be more teaching resources available for DAd, but you can find some DAA books as well. Go to  Folkcraft  and click on the Books and Videos tab. You will find lots of resources there.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

I will switch the strings. The story I heard is that an old man bought it, never played it, and died. My wife and sister-in-law bought it for far less than the internet price. The first owner apparently got the strings switched.

So you fret the bass and A strings? I always thought only the two melody strings got fretted.

Your blog looks like a great resource! 

Pondoro, 99.99 % of all mtn dulcimers do not have their fattest 'bass' string in the middle position. I advise you to switch your fat bass string to the position of being farthest away from you when holding the dulcimer in your lap, with the tuning peghead on your left.  Then, you can tune it (from bass to melody) D3, A3, d4.  OR you could tune it D3, A3, A3. (the D3 being the lowest/bass string).

If you don't switch those strings, you are going to have a very confusing time of it and you will not be able to follow any Tabs written for DAd or DAA.  It's going to cause you a whole lot of headaches. Either intentionally or unintentionally, that dulcimer was strung in an 'experimental' manner that will prove to be incredibly frustrating. 

Think of it as though someone reversed two strings randomly on a guitar... imagine what a terrible time some guitar student would have trying to learn to make chords and play guitar when all teaching material and all other players had their strings normally laid out.  I strongly advise you to swap your middle and bass string so the bass/fattest string is the one furthest from your body when playing, and the medium thick string should be in the middle position.

Your dulcimer is not a tenor banjo, and my advise is to stop thinking in terms of your tenor banjo tuning. I mean, plenty of folks have experimentally tried tuning their dulcimers like guitars, or like banjos... but the problem with that is that they can't then use any of the wealth of dulcimer teaching material available, and they will have a hard time relating to anything dulcimer players are talking about with tunings, fingerings, chords, tab, etc. It all goes out the window because it can't apply to your dulcimer.

When you imitate the tuning of a different instrument, the immediate benefit of feeling you are already 'familiar' with how to play is pretty quickly outweighed by being 'stuck' in that tuning and string positioning that nobody else uses, and as a beginner dulcimer player you won't be able to get much help from others or from learning materials. 

Dulcimer is flat on my lap. Tuners to my left. The farthest string from me is not the bass string. It appears to be the same diameter as the two melody strings which are closest to me. The fat bass string is in between. I tuned it A3, D3 (lower than A3) and then, nearest me, d4. Fattest string is lowest     .

Now my tenor banjo is tuned (to my memory, it is not with me) D3 G3 B3 E4. The fourth string is nearest my nose and is D3. So my melody strings are not exactly the same as my tenor banjo D, but they are never the less open D. So all my Irish tunes in the key of D pretty much come naturally.

But my point was American folk. So please feel free to convince me that Some other tuning is better. 

A couple of things: 

The usual way of writing/describing the tuning on a mtn dulcimer is to name the bass string first, melody string(s) last. Thus, DAd means the bass string is in the lower octave (thus it is capitalized)... the middle string is the A above that D.... and the melody string is the d an octave higher than the bass string (thus it's usually in lower case letter d).  In DAA tuning, the bass string is low D, the middle string is the A above that note, and the melody string is the exact same A note as the middle string.

There are some links with actual tuning aids here:  https://dulcimer-noter-drone.blogspot.com/2010/12/what-notes-do-i-tune-my-strings-to.html

As to your tenor banjo- do you mean your banjo lowest string when you say 4th string? If so, you may be tuning the dulcimer en entire octave too low. check the above tuning aids in the links.

When you say 'near to far'- do you mean your Bass string is tuned to a low A and middle string to the even LOWER D3 ? if so, then that tuning is not right.  If you are going for DAA, the bass string will be low D.  If you want DAd (or DAdd), the bass string is low D and the melody string(s) will be the d an octave higher.  Most folks talk in terms of bass, middle, and melody strings, rather than near to far. And tunings are usually described in the sequence of from Bass to melody. That way we can all be on the same page and avoid broken strings!  ;)

Are you holding your dulcimer flat on your lap?  Just asking, since not everyone does.

Whoa! I'm tuned DAd. Just realized that the melody strings are the same note (d) as the fourth string of my Chicago tuned tenor banjo. After playing Oh Susanna I entertained my wife with Raglan Road. Strings (far to near) are tuned A3, D3, D4, D4. Like I said the thick string is in the middle. 

Using my index finger and a pick but I plan to make a noter from a dowel. 

Pondoro, that is terrific!  Sounds like you and your dulcimer are going to have a grand adventure for sure.

Old time folk tunes and carols are a wonderful choice to start out playing- the dulcimer can play all kinds of music including classical, blues, jazz, etc... but its an old folk instrument that was originally mostly used in playing American folk/fiddle/dance music, ballads, and hymns, which includes many carols. Mountain dulcimers are like ducks in water when it comes to that particular playing repertoire.

You'll get lots of good advice here on FOTMD.  I'm a little biased myself, but I'll go ahead and recommend that you start with DAA tuning and playing the melody only on the melody strings (or the double melody course).  You can try out playing in the real old traditional style using a noter stick, or your finger. Once you get your bearings you can also try out chord playing and/or fingerpicking styles, and other cool tunings like chord-friendly DAd and lonesome-sounding DAC.  There are different styles of playing and each one has its own special charm and sound. 
For beginner melody-only style playing with open drone strings, may I suggest you explore my noter-drone BLOG for traditional ducimer playing style- it has many beginner tabs and videos to help with strumming patterns and other general playing tips for beginners:   https://dulcimer-noter-drone.blogspot.com/    Be sure to start reading from the oldest posts first, the ones from 2009.

If you find a local dulcimer club or jam to play with, you might find that they play in chord style in DAd tuning, and usually play only from TAB together.  If you like what you observe there, you can join them in learning that way of playing, but you should know that you can also play along with them in DAA or with a noter... or in fingerpicking style. The point is, as long as you are all playing in the same key, there are ways that different playing styles can play together harmoniously. Never lose sight of having FUN and never get discouraged!  The mountain dulcimer is an amazing and forgiving friend- it truly allows you to find great joy in playing music- no matter how simple or how complex your playing level or your chosen approach is, and no matter what your musical background and taste is.  

P.S. I think you needn't worry about anything beyond that 10th fret for a good while yet. You may very well encounter tunes you want to use second octave frets for, but... some folks never play up there, ever!  lolol  In other words, you don't 'have to know' how to play above the 10th fret... you could literally spend a lifetime exploring wonderful tunes that never go above it. If and when you're ready to play up there, you'll know it and it won't be a big deal.

By the way it has 19 frets, not counting the zero fret. 1-10 are labeled and there is an unlabeled 6-1/2 fret. After 10 you tell me. I'll figure them out with an electronic tuner. 

The middle string is wound, the two coursed strings and the far string seem to be the same size. When I get home I can measure the diameters. 

A few months ago I joined this site. My wife and her sister had bought me a dulcimer for Christmas. I just got it. It is a Cedar Creek, plywood top, looks undamaged and very serviceable. I'll state here that I play ukulele, tenor banjo, bodhrán, and harmonica. So I understand instruments but have never tried a dulcimer. I've built a few ukuleles, two cigar box and two with actual bodies from bent wood.

I plan to play old time folk tunes and Christmas carols. I'm pretty excited to finally have a real Appalachian instrument, since I love old time American music. Playing it on the uke is fun but a bit out of the proper era. I'd like to try it on the dulcimer!

I'm open to tuning suggestions- it has four strings, two are in a single course, the double course is near me when the tuners are to the left. One thing I've learned from years of ukulele - telling a newcomer that, "You can tune it any way you want" is theoretically true but not much help. I'd like suggestions for a tuning that fits American folk tunes and has plentiful teaching resources. I'm ok if I get conflicting advice! Hand in hand I'd love suggestions for learning resources- free is awesome but I'm not too cheap to buy a book. 

Thanks!

If you have the "mechanical" friction pegs with the tension screws, and the screws won't tighten enough to hold the strings in tune, it means the plastic peg buttons are compressed. The screws can't go any farther.

You can take the peg apart and either add a small washer between the screw head and the top of the button, or make a washer out of leather or soft plastic and put it between the bottom of the button and the metal housing it sits on. This will allow the screw to be tightened a lttle more.

These screws shouldn't be any tighter than necessary to hold the string in tune, or the buttons will become compressed prematurely. 

If you have wooden violin-style pegs, the various remedies already given work. Sometimes I use "peg dope" (jeweler's rouge) or blackboard chalk for the peg to have more grip in the holes.