Forum Activity for @wally-venable

OK, now I understand the requirements. Just have a blacksmith or welder construct five separate cradles, each customized to fit an individual instrument and at your chosen angle. A single hanging point for each is all that is needed. Make them from heavy steel wire (8 gauge ?), paint them black, and cover the contact points with black rubber tube (1/8 in. ?).

This approach requires good craftsmanship which won't come cheap. You could by another good dulcimer for the same price.

I must dissent, not that Wally (and Dusty before him) don't have good ideas on the broad topic of dulcimer displays.  But I'm specifically asking how I might best arrange five dulcimers to tell "The Story of the Dulcimer" visually, as Ralph Lee Smith did with three instruments in the cover illustration of the first edition of his excellent little book on that subject.  I own a couple of "missing links" in the sequence he has documented, there and in the revised 2nd edition, as well as his long-running series in Dulcimer Players News.  And I've specifically proposed a fan shape, over a wide doorway, in a large room with an unusually high ceiling.

Nearly alone in Dulcimerica, you (Strumelia) have actually seen my collection -- six or eight of them -- some years ago at an Antietam Early Banjo Gathering.  Other dulcimer fans who have seen most of them include Roddy Moore; the late Ralph Lee Smith himself; and most recently John Hallberg and Ken Longfield (together), alongside John's large and growing museum collection.  For this proposed, historically informative wall display, none of the five is newer than 1963.  Three of them date from the early to mid-19th century, including a fine German-American zitter (regrettably called a "scheitholt" by most of our community).  All are now in playable, gently restored and unmodified condition; so I might, very occasionally, want to take one or two down to play, or to show someone.  They are in my residence, not a museum.

I like Wally's thought of angled bookshelves. Like say at a 20 degree angle. That way, it would also slightly reduce dust from settling on the instruments. The shelves could be attached without a backboard, and perhaps staggered on the wall, to give a more floating effect.

You might also consider building some sort of angled "bookshelves" or "shadow boxes." That way you could easily take them down to play.

The closest thing I can find as a picture is on

https://www.amazon.com/Rolanstar-Bookshelf-Bookshelves-Bookcase-Organizer/dp/B0CLD2KJLK/ref=asc_df_B0CLD2KJLK/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=693769995770&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=12067035090039566209&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9009439&hvtargid=pla-2273008037708&psc=1&mcid=c43bb487d9ec3f929b6e7a208188e8a7&gad_source=1

@razyn, I appreciate your visions here and think of all the suggestions so far, @ken-hulme's is probably the best, though it will entail some work.

Have you thought about using a slatwall kit instead?  Pegboard would work as well, though it doesn't look as nice.  You could easily get hardware to fit the slatwall to hold your dulcimers at different angles.  And none of it would be permanent, so you could change the display if you added new pieces to the collection or to highlight different kinds of comparisons among the instruments. Some slatwall looks downright elegant.

You can see my lazy approach to hanging dulcimers here:

This is a useful idea, though I remain very reluctant to make the mount itself a prominent element of the display.  Preferably it would be invisible.  But for purposes of discussion, there is not a problem with mounting a fan of five 1x2 planks (each shorter overall than the dulcimer or zitter it will support) directly to the drywall, e.g. with molly bolts.  Individual harnesses, each of which will hold (but can release) one instrument to its custom-sized plank, might differ in the means and location of their unobtrusive attachment mechanisms.  I might seek inspiration at REI or someplace where I can look at nylon web belts, etc. made with quick-release clamps, for things like water bottles attached to bicycles, flare guns to kayaks, or whatever.

The fan of dulcimers will be roughly five and a half feet wide, three and a half feet high, and the lowest point (on the two outside examples) will be seven feet or so above the floor.  The room has about a 16 foot ceiling, not a problem for looking at dulcimers, but a long way to drop one.

I appreciate all the ideas; every instrument deserves its own approach, and some of them may differ, on the wall.  I'll address the fundamental topic as it was more tersely stated by Ken Hulme.

Make a fan of lengths of 1x2 with cross pieces to hold the wide ends apart.  Mount that to the wall with standard hardware, then attach the dulcimers to the angled arms...

Good question......I think I would experiment with eye screws painted to match the color of the wall and plastic clear zip ties or stainless steel zips painted or stained.  Another thought is use some loop end strings, run them through the bottom hitch pins and put the one your going to attach to the wall under one of the strings running through to the bridge, pull it tight and twist it to secure making another loop or wind it around the eye screw or whatever your using. You might be able to make a sort of L bracket out of plastic or vinyl to run your wire through. If your are placing them on dry wall use some plastic or metal anchors with the eye screws..........there is a way but it might be trial and error until you find on that works for the bottom attachment.

 Or If you used a flat rectangular piece of plastic, attached to the wall, behind the instrument you could run that wire from  the hitch pins under the body and tighten it up enough so that the instrument will lay fairly firm against the wall.......wrap your wire under that plastic, through a hole in it and/or around a screw holding the plastic.  If your worried about the screws that you attach the plastic with stick some felt over them.  That way, if the head is secure you could angle them any way you wanted depending on where and how you placed the plastic piece.

Just a thought or two..........

Thanks, Ken, it's the cradle details that bother me.  Some sort of attachment to the back that would hold the negligible weight of an instrument, be almost entirely out of sight, and could be suspended at any angle I wish.  I was thinking of some light harness (twine?) assembled as a loose fit, with maybe a miniature turnbuckle, or similar device to make its grip gentle but firm.  Padded hooks or tabs at the edges where it has to be gripped.

IDK, the dulcimers are all differently shaped but have fronts, backs, and sides.  And of course are old, rare, irreplaceable...  Maybe I should lay them out on the floor, take a photo of the view I want, blow that up, and mount that over the doorway.  But it would have a fraction of the impact, or educational value.  And be two-dimensional.  As you and I well know, John Hallberg has a similar problem, multiplied by some large number.  The Story of the Dulcimer is still worth telling visually.

I went back through all my photos of dulcimer displays but could not find any displayed as you want to do it. They were either hung vertically or laid out horizontally. Those at an angle were resting against something. The "unobtrusive" support fis puzzling me. Most of what I've thought of would require making some sort of cradle to hold the lower end.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

The late Sam Rizzetta had a column about the issue in DPN, Fall 1995, p. 9.  But he didn't address techniques for hanging them at angles.

Very interested to hear what others with actual knowledge do for this. Personally, I have mounted dulcimers on the wall by securing them with picture frame mounting hooks, and hanging them by a piece of twine that is tied to the scroll and tailpiece. Because the twine puts a lot of friction on the hook, it will stay at whatever angle you position it. I am sure there are more simple and elegant solutions so I'm looking forward to hearing from others.

Not that they aren't playable; the ones I intend to hang are just historically interesting.  I want to fan five of them side by side in a sort of homage to Ralph Lee Smith's cover photo (that showed three) for the original edition of "The Story of the Dulcimer."  Thanks to Ralph himself and other collectors/researchers, we have more details of the story than he had forty years ago.  I own a couple of the "missing links" that help tell the story visually.  And I think they'd look better as a fan display than as soldiers standing at attention (all hanging parallel, because gravity works that way).

So the question I'd like to address is, how have others here dealt with the lower end or edge of a dulcimer so it can hang at an angle, about 30 degrees left or right of vertical?  The top end isn't the problem, but I wouldn't want any of these antiques falling off the wall for lack of attention to that detail.  I'd prefer some sort of unobtrusive hardware solution, not nails or glue, or double-sticky tape on the instrument backs.  None of them are heavily built, like e.g. the "TMB" form.

My experience almost exactly parallels that of mu "dulcimer twin" -- Ken Longfield. -- except my journey started in 1974 and half the continent away; he in Pennsylvania, I in Colorado. 

Although I don’t post a lot on here, this is one of my favorite places❤️🎶

I love the dulcimer and this community is filled with people around the world that love the same thing I do!  They say variety is the spice of life - which we all bring here with different styles, different instruments, different genres, but we all love the dulcimer!  And seriously - it would be tough to find a better group of people anywhere!  Thank you all for being awesome!

I think his use of pull-offs adds to the delight of this tune.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Since I'm coming into this discussion rather late, all of my suggestions except one have been offered. If you go to the trouble of angling the end block under the peg head, you could angle the end of the peg head to fit flat against the fret board. You could flatten out the top of the peg head by the fret board to place the nut on or cut a dado to accept the nut. This probably the most work intensive suggestion.

And as Ken Hulme said, "Keep us posted - show us your solution."

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Well, John, it is an exquisite instrument, but coming out of your workshop that's what I expect. You do beautiful work. Thanks for sharing it here.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Ever since I encountered my first live dulcimer person back in the summer of 1970 I've had mostly positive experiences with dulcimer people. There have been those who looked down on me for playing mostly in 1 - 5 - 5 tunings and those who thought I was a simpleton for playing with a noter, but I've ignored them. I try to be encouraging of all dulcimer player and builders and find positive things to say even if there dulcimer thing isn't my dulcimer thing. After 54 years of having a love affair with mountain dulcimer, I'm not about to discourage anyone from having a similar experience. Just remember, no matter where and how you play or build it,

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Ken

The dulcimer community has been the most positive, helpful and encouraging out of any instrument I've played, by a lot.

Thanks, everyone!

Ken H., it's based on every scrap of information I could find about Jethro's dulcimores.  Photos, written dimensions, actual eyewitness of his dulcimores, etc.  I think it's pretty close overall.

Lovely, John!   Is that based on measurements you took when we were in Berea and Lexington for the Grumpy Old Men Gathering?

Really looks like a pristine old Amburgey!  Lovely work.

Great suggestions. Giving a brief comment or compliment, both online or in real life, takes so little effort but can have a profound effect on others, more than we might ever know.

Keep us posted -- show us your solution...

John: Thank you for the advice on materials. You have confirmed some ideas for me.

Ken: Now THAT is a solution I'd have not thought of. So simple. I had thought about cutting an angle into the headblock and creating a new tuning head, but your photo has me thinking now.

Nate: You are absolutely correct that's what it's doing - pulling the strings down over the zero fret. Same general concept as Fender string trees, but it just introduces such a harsh bend in the strings that I believe is contributing to the middle string in particular going out of tune almost immediately.

You all have been helpful. I have some things to think about with this little gal.

Mackelroy, you could use several materials for the nut.  Bone, ebony, rosewood, Micarta, even brass.  Tennessee luthier John Maxwell even used clear plastic, though I don't know why.  You can get bone blanks at Guitar Center or an old-school music store.

Lots of things you could do, certainly.   Personally I would saw the tuning head and headblock on a downward angle, drill 4 new holes, and install autoharp tuning pins as tuners.  This is what Bobby Ratliff did on his Cumberland Travel Dulcemore that I won in a TTAD contest a couple years back. 

Those tuning pins are tapped into pilot holes, and thread the hole as you turn them to screw the pin deeper into the wood.  They hold tuning very well, and are easily adjusted using a clock key or autoharp tuning wrench.  Best of all, they only cost about 40¢ each.  

 Bobby's tuninghead.jpg - 166KB

It looks to me like the spacer is not only meant to keep the strings at their correct distance, but also is meant to pull them down over the zero fret. That is why the strings are going through holes, and not just resting over the top like an actual nut.

I appreciate the advice. I have some new strings on order, and will try to do that. That faux nut/string spacer is going to be replaced as well. I want the strings to go over it, not through it as they currently do. . I have experience making/shaping nuts for guitars. Is there a preferred material for making one?

It might help if the strings were wound around their posts right at the surface of the peghead, rather than around the beveled area by the holes.  You would have to hold each string down at the peghead surface as you tighten them.  This could give you a few more degrees of break angle.  The straight peghead-mounting design is not beneficial to proper string action. 

Nothing wiggles. But if you were to snug it up to the fretboard, it’d bind the strings. Whatever the solution is, it almost has to include a different string spacer. 

My mistake I thought the nails were screws. Are the nails loose? It visually looks like the spacer is meant to be flush with the edge of the fingerboard, but has been pulled out of place and tipped over by the force of the strings.

Great thoughts, Jamie!  I'm with you-- we're all doing something we love.  And we have a place here to communicate meaningfully with one another.  

The “nut” is nailed to the fretboard. And if you look closely, you can see that the strings go through it, not over it. It’s being used as a string spacer. I would hope that wasn’t the maker’s design, but I also can’t tell you it wasn’t. The string angles coming from the tuning posts are not great. They’re tall posts, and you’d have to wind the string way down them to get an angle approaching “acceptable,” IMO.  

Looks great John.

Very nice,  Great technique on the wood.

if you were to tighten those screws, would the nut be upright and flush with the end of the fingerboard? It seems to be leaning pretty dramatically toward the zero fret and the screws look pretty loose. Maybe is just needs to be re-secured

Just a thought.Dulcimer players are a minority in North America which has an advantage re mainstream media...we can be as creative as we want to be...no pressure to be successful or conform to a certain standard or style, because we're mostly ignored.Very creative situation...Nevertheless,as musicians we need  communication,a response.If you like something or a certain approach in a tune or wonder about the technique-ask,like,comment.It's not Spotify...it's a bunch of individuals whatever the playing level doing something they love...Ask,like,comment.