Forum Activity for @nate

Scale length

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Wow there are some pretty skilled musicians showcasing those instruments

I think that any effort to directly compare different VSLs would be a compromise of all kinds of other features that probably affect tone far more than VSL. While the original question specifically asked about scale length, there is also the broader question of how tone, volume, and sustain are affected by a physically larger instrument. I think in general dulcimers with long VSLs tend to often have larger soundboards, are often taller, are often sturdier and can handle more tension, and are often tuned lower. The many other factors that come along with a long VSL can affect the tone more than the VSL itself.

Scale length

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

 

When I bought my Terry McCafferty dulcimer, he was offering 3 VSLs from which to choose: 25", 25.8", and 27", though I could be wrong on that last one.  The boxes are all identical, with the difference just being the length of the fingerboard and the placement of the saddle.  So his instruments would be good ones to choose from to gauge the difference VSL makes.

I am convinced that there is little-to-no difference in tone, although the differences in VSL in these cases are minimal.  

However, I believe the 25.8" has a bit more sustain than the 25", and the difference is less than an inch! (I opted for the 25" model anyway, just for the comfort of my chording hand.)

(If you visit Terry's website, click the "Cool Stuff" page. You might see someone you know playing a tune or two!)

Scale length

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

 

Hypothetically, one could make two identical boxes with different VSLs and choose two string gauges which would produce an equal amount of tension at the two lengths. for example, if both were tuned to D4, you could have a 22" VSL with a 0.010 string and a 31" VSL with a 0.007 and both would have about ~10.5 lb of tension.

Of course youd never be able to perfectly account for the difference in the actual fingerboards. I guess one possibility would be to have both fingerboards be 31" long, and the "shorter" scale just doesn't reach the end of its fingerboard.

It really is too many questions rolled up into one.
updated by @nate: 03/11/25 01:50:24PM

Scale length

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

 

And also, having the correct amount of tension to complement the thickness of the box. Thicker wood can need more string energy to get excited, so an instrument intended for high tension can sound more hollow with low tension. Kind of like when you put nylon strings on a steel string instrument.

Scale length

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Does a longer instrument simply have more tension because the players choose to use higher tension strings?
When I string up longer dulcimers, I use smaller gauge strings or lower pitch tunings to compensate. Similarly, when I string up shorter dulcimer, I use thicker strings or higher tunings to compensate. I prefer the tactile experience of having thinner strings, and I also notice a difference in sustain with longer strings, even when they are not at a higher tension. 

Dulcimer for sale in London UK

FOR SALE:instruments/music items/CDs/Wanted to Buy...

I am selling my dulcimer that I have had for more than 30 years as I have never given it my full attention. The instrument is in excellent condition. 

Here are the details: 

Rugg and Jackel Fok Roots Dulcimer

D-50 S 726881 (dated July 26, 1988)

Spruce top

Black walnut back, sides and headstock 

Approximate measurements are:

Length: 37”

Height: 3”

Width at widest point: 7¾”

Cost: £125 plus any shipping costs. Or collection in person from London UK

Scale length

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Perhaps over simplification, but if the only variable is the strings, Longer and thicker gauges [and therefore higher tensions] will vibrate longer on any given length for the same tuning. As an example a .024 tuned to D3 on a 22 inch VSL [about 12.5 pounds of tension] will not vibrate as long as the same string used on a 36 inch VSL with the same tuning [39.2 pounds].

In the proverbial nutshell, longer dulcimer strings [VSL] usually mean a longer "sustain" of each note played. You can coax a bit more out of a shorter scale by going thicker on the strings , but only to a point. Finger comfort and tension on the instrument can get excessive.

Scale length

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Yeah, to actually measure the difference, we would need to hold all the other variables constant.  We would need the same builder to make identical instruments with the exception of the VSL.  Same box, same bracing, same wood types, same wood thickness, same amount of glue, etc.  And even then we would have to decide what string gauges to use.  Would you choose the gauges most appropriate for the longer VSL or the shorter?  Would you cut the difference in half to measure? Either way, you are not really hearing the way at least one of the dulcimers would normally sound.

I guess what I'm saying is that we could never measure this accurately.  But the good news is we'll be able to discuss it forever! 

Scale length

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Adding to what Dusty said, tone can also be greatly effected by the wood thickness... not simply by the size of the sound box and its scale length.

@Dan ...what note and what string gauge do you use for a 36" scale? Surely not the usual high d note... you must be tuning to lower keys/notes?

Perhaps simply comparing the sound/tone of a shorter 23 5/16" scale McSpadden Ginger to a regular 29" scale McSpadden would answer TonyG's question. However, the Ginger is described as being tuned to the key of G, several steps higher than the standard DAA or DAd.
So, Tony asks if a different scale will effect the tone or sound... I guess part of the answer would also depend on whether you specify tuning both scales to the same notes or keys.

Scale length

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Sustain.  I think longer VSLs have more sustain than shorter ones.

Remember that modern instruments often have much larger boxes than do traditional instruments, so some of the generalizations here may not accurately describe the difference between a traditional instrument with a long VSL and a modern instrument with a shorter one.

Scale length

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Dulcimore Dan is an I.D. Stamper fan!   I.D. used those long, jangly, low-pitched strings on his dulcimers.

Scale length

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

If you tune a 26 inch and 29 inch Dulcimore the same, the longer scale will have more tension and usually have a little better "punch" to it. I also prefer the longer scales, 36 inch is my favorite!

Scale length

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

One thing to note is that a longer scale length/VSL usually means a physically larger instrument, which can affect tone and volume.

This is just an observation and I might be wrong about this, but to me, when tuned to the same note with the same tension, thinner longer strings seem to have a fuller tone than thicker, shorter strings.

Scale length

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I know the trend has been toward shorter scale lengths, which I suppose makes sense for chord melody style, but being a drone player, I prefer a longer scale length which for some reason sounds better to my ear.  But I was wondering what the reason is, and basically,  how does scale length affect the sound of a dulcimer?

Hair line crack bottom back of walnut McSpadden

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Sometimes faults and scars make some beautiful sweet sounds.....

Tuning for a 4 Equidistant String Dulcimer

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

There are numerous tunings

Hair line crack bottom back of walnut McSpadden

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I see

McSpadden v. Folkcraft?

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I prefer Folkcraft because those have more options

Chromatic Dulcimer Jazz

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I found a book called "Speakeasy And Tin Pan Alley Tunes For Chromatic Dulcimer" by Dana Gruber which works great when playing Jazz on a Chromatic Dulcimer. Mine is a Folkcraft Lap-Jo (Chromatic 4 strings with Doubled Melody String in DAD Tuning & the 23 inch scale using Jumbo Frets in Stainless Steel) so I can get a splash of Dixieland Jazz thrown into my Jazz Dulcimer playing.

McSpadden v. Folkcraft?

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I find the folkcrafts more versatile because they come in more varieties like resonator (I hope the Resonator dulcimers have the option of 4 strings with both double melody & 4 equidistant strings in the future)

Reasons NOT To Get a Chromatic

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Chromatic Dulcimers started out as Diatonics but they added extra frets (0.5, 1.5, 3.5, 4.5, 6.5). The original Chromatic Dulcimer was a Diatonic Dulcimer that was converted historically speaking.

Mr Moses Scrivner

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

For anyone interested the the Scrivner dulcimer that David Schnaufer played here is a video about it.

 

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

updated by @ken-longfield: 03/09/25 12:16:15PM

Mr Moses Scrivner

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Even though you posted the wrong profile, I enjoyed reading it. Thanks for sharing.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Mr Moses Scrivner

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I enjoyed the profile.  Though David Schnaufer is gone, Vince Farsetta is still making music.  

Mr Moses Scrivner

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Looks like I pasted the wrong link SORRY but still some interesting info. about Vince Farsetta & David Schnaufer.

Mr Moses Scrivner

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Well kids I hope everybody's doing well just thought I'd pass along this link For those who are interested  https://dulcinews.com/profile-vincent-farsetta/

A Question about dulcimer popularity...

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I saw a longer part of Amanda's interview and she took up mountain dulcimer during the pandemic.  The dulcimer she's playing wasn't hers but was pulled out by Jimmy Fallon and it surprised her.  She said she was nervous yet dove right into California.  

A Question about dulcimer popularity...

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Incredibly talented!

A Question about dulcimer popularity...

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Just what we need to get the kids interested!

I have to admit I didn't expect such a strong voice from Amanda.

Introduce Yourself!

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Sweet!

Introduce Yourself!

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

 

I've been listening to Steve Reich for over 20 years.  Recently I did a piece with lyre and psaltery inspired by his earlier work, particularly Violin/Electric Guitar Phase and Drumming:

https://trebizond.bandcamp.com/track/lake-evendim

Shortest scale length to help with playing on 4 strings

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

 

I used just regular Folkcraft Roller Wound Strings, .011, .011, .013, .024RW & I had no problems at all. They're very gentle underneath the fingers.

Shortest scale length to help with playing on 4 strings

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

The shortest scale dulcimer I make is 24". I use 12 12 14 22 strings without any problems. The nice thing about short scale dulcimers is tuning to pitches much higher then Dad...Robert 

A Question about dulcimer popularity...

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Gett'n ready for the revival..........

Shortest scale length to help with playing on 4 strings

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

If you want to go to lighter strings on a 23 inch VSL, I suggest 0.011 for the melody strings, a 0.015 for the middle, and 0.023 for the bass. You could always try going down once size on each string to see if it is too floppy. For the most part, experimentation is what you need to find the right strings for you and your dulcimer.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Shortest scale length to help with playing on 4 strings

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

With a 23" scale, you'd have to use somewhat heavy strings to keep the DAd tuning from being too floppy (especially for the middle A string). What gauge strings did you put on it for that tuning?

Shortest scale length to help with playing on 4 strings

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I have a 4 string Chromatic Mountain Dulcimer in DAD Tuning with the Doubled Melody String (the bridge & nut are cut to also allow for 4 equidistant strings) & what I did rather cleverly here was to use a 23 inch scale length (the shortest scale length) which keeps the tension of the strings down. A really short scale length makes the strings more flexible and easier to play.

updated by @s11141827: 03/04/25 07:49:28PM

Chet Hines “dulcimore”

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

You have a piece of Dulcimer history for sure.

Chet Hines “dulcimore”

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Ken, that’s wonderful. What a great article! I’ll be sure to contact Ron and see if he can give me any more information. I’m starting to feel I have a real treasure with this dulcimer. 

Chet Hines “dulcimore”

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Here is a link to the Ron Ewing article in DPN. https://archive.org/details/dpn-1990-016-03/page/20/mode/1up

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."