Forum Activity for @jan-potts

Kusani, you're totally on the right track here....I also have a John Maxwell dulcimer that I wouldn't change--the tuning pegs are just that distinctive!  As you say, you may one day purchase another dulcimer that suits your current needs better.  Just don't get frustrated and quit before you've bought that 2nd dulcimer!

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Just make it sound nice, and I'm happy with however you play it.

I was going to make the same point.  There are many ways to work around a melody for which the dulcimer does not contain a note.  You can skip the note, you can play an alternative note such a harmony note, you can play a chord instead, etc. But there are also ways of finding notes other than those that the frets themselves provide.

With a noter, there is a method of getting any note you want, as Robin Clark demonstrates in this video .  What he calls his "angle noter technique" allows you to get a note in between frets.  And if you play with your fingers, you can bend strings, thus also getting notes in between the frets.  Both of those techniques take some practice, but they open up a whole range of melodic and harmonic possibilities.

Nice Work. :)

Here is a picture of two banjo's I built. One has a $4 set of ebony fiddle pegs. The other $80 geared fiddle pegs. Can you tell the difference. ?.

We have the technology... Robert...

 IMG_20160107_125629_630.jpg - 95KB

Yes, Marg, you can do that.  When I was talking about going all over the fingerboard it was more because I don't use the 1 1/2 fret.   6 1/2 on the melody is 9 on the middle so there's not a lot of jumping around.

Without the 6+ in DAd, instead of jumping all over the fretboard finding a note to replace the 6.5, could I play cords for a measure or 2 and get by not having the 6+ that way or do something like a silent strum (if it sounds alright that way)?

I had hear about soap but not the chalk or pencil so that is good to know

thanks again, every little bit helps and adds up

Welcome back Carol!   

Pull out only if the peg won't turn at all.  If you have the peg properly seasoned with chalk (for stickiness) and pencil (for lubrication) it should turn and hold just fine with a little pushing.   Because both of these substances are solids throughout a wide range of temperatures, they retain their properties with the temperature changes we usually encounter.  Not so for soap and/or rosin.  I don't recommend them for that reason. 

Thanks everyone, guess when I get to KY and have my little W. May will learn over time how to tune a peg. But for now still not sure, do I need to pull out a bit before turning than push in or just turn than push? 

I personally can't stand wooden pegs.  They look cool, but they drive me nuts.

Yeah, sometimes those chromatic slides are very out of place. Often when I'm playing an instrument with a lot of extra frets I tend to play across the strings more in order to avoid that.... it really depends on the tune and what I'm going for.

Very true, Rob!  It's fun to play all over the board like that! As in everything, it really all depends on the tune, and the sound you are going for!

Being a newbie, just started playing, or trying, yesterday I was faced with the decision wether or not to go to geared turners. I have decided, at least for now, to keep my instrument original; partially due to sentimental reasons and also due to remaining true to the instrument maker.  As I hopefully gain more experience, I suspect I may purchase another dulcimer rather than modify my current one. May sound silly but I live in Cookeville where I met John Maxwell the day my mother purchased her dulcimer; which I now have. :)

Kimberly, that's outstanding!  How neat you've got a mix of instruments to get a stringband sound.  :)

Basically you turn them while gently pressing them in. Even properly installed pegs can be a problem to tune. They work like a charm one day and stick and slip the next. They look great, and their cheap, about $4.00 a set. But most folks convert them to geared pegs at some time. A geared conversion will cost around $100.00. A common sound I hear in the night is the sound of pegs popping loose on my pegged instruments... Robert. 

It's probably not as detailed as you'd like, but I did do a video with tuning wooden pegs at the request of a member here as an introduction to an instructional video once.  I just put it up on Youtube.  

There's only 2 things you need to get wood pegs working right: spit and chalk.  If the pegs seem tight then carefully loosen them and put some chalk where the peg meets the head.  I use billiard chalk but you can use blackboard chalk.  I use moisture to swell the peg if it's slipping a little.  You don't have to spit on them.  lol.  

Stringing is the same -- over the top, through the hole and back again.  Don't bother wrapping around the peg more than twice; cut the excess off -- it's much cleaner looking than a wiry bird's nest.   It takes two hands to tune -- one to turn the peg and one to hold the dulcimer firmly.  When tuning, aim for a bit sharp, and then give a firm push to set the peg.  It will usually slip a bit as you push, bringing you close to what you want.

The 'pushing in' bit is so subtle that it probably would not show on a video.

I'm looking for a youtube or web site on how to tune wooden pegs on a dulcimer and I can't find any. Does anyone know of a video on how to string and tune with wooden pegs.

thanks

 ken & dusty, thanks for the articles. Seems I read some of your discussions awhile back but made more sense this time around. May still take time on understanding the modes.

I do like the 6+ for DAd but any more frets I don't want, They get in my way. But to have a dulcimer with a beautiful tone that's great for DAA  would also be nice to have the 6.5 for DAd - a great go to for me.

Thanks everyone for lots of good comments, all very helpful. 

 Marg, a while back I posted a discussion entitled " What are 1/2 frets and do I need any ." Although you've clearly gotten very good advice here, you might find that post helpful.  My thoghts on this topic can be found there, so I won't repeat myself.

Ken and I are clearly opposites here. He plays  strictly noter/drone on a true diatonic fretboard.  I play across all the strings on dulcimers with one and increasingly two extra frets.  However, we agree on one thing: if you have an older instrument without the 6+ fret, keep it as is in its traditional form rather than butcher it for modern usage.

It looks like your efforts have paid off well. Good job!

I would like to thank everyone for all of the helpful suggestions!  Our November meeting had about 6 people there.  Our December meeting had 7.  Our January meeting last Saturday?   We had 22 people!!!  YES!  So, it was not all dulcimer players.  We had a couple of ukulele players and a guitar player, but 22 people!!!!  YES!!!!!  Some of the people that attended are very interested in becoming dulcimer players and they wanted to come and learn what it was like to play the dulcimer.  (I think we have some budding dulcimer players!!!)

Ironically enough, we were SO busy in the library that day (I am the assistant branch manager at the library where we are having the library-sponsored dulcimer meeting), that I was trapped at the main circulation desk helping all of the patrons of the library!  I didn't even get to take my dulcimer out of the case and join in the fun.  :(

Even though I didn't get to join in, I am so excited that there is so much interest in the group!

I just wanted to share an update with you all!  

 This is a great post Ken................thinking about changing my user name to the Impolite Bi-folkaled Moder, in your honor............

Yeah, Guy, but it sure is "cool" to play all over the fretboard.  In 2014 I was playing with some folks (fiddle, bass, autoharp) at the local farmer's market. The fiddler called out "Over the Waterfall," one that I use the 6th fret on the bass string to get the C natural in the A part.  After we were finished I heard someone say, "boy, they ran that guy with the dulcimer all over that thing."  It was  pretty nice that they noticed.

This is my only real objection to extra frets, can't get used to it no matter how much I try, too many years playing by ear I guess. Otherwise very useful.

The 6.5 allows you to move the root position UP a fifth (Ionian played from the Mixalydian position for example)

The 1.5 allows you to move the root position DOWN a fifth (Dorian from the Mixalydian position for example)

And here's a shot of the "wide" Sassafras model, Both the Mahogany and this one look like they were never even played, or minimally at best, I couldn't find any sign of wear at all.

 IMG_1047.JPG.jpg - 133KB

I actually ended up with 3 Warren Mays, to do a side by side comparison, I really don't mind the wooden pegs, all it requires is a little patience and adjusting to them, I find I can now tune about as quickly and accurately as with geared tuners.

 I ended up withy the 82, older fret scale, not sure of the wood.

also got an 86 all mahogany, with the updated fret scale, and a much more recent model, the "wide" version with f holes, walnut back and sides, and a sassafras top, they all sound fantastic, I do think my fave is the wide version, so mellow and haunting sound, especially tuned to CGC.

 I may end up selling the 82, but can't decide for sure, I really only set out to find one, but I was a little naughty but nice to myself for Christmas!!

 Here's a shot of the Mahogany.

 mahogany.jpg - 90KB

Interestingly enough, in order to play many of tunes that are in Mixolydian mode (especially if you play melody/chord), the so-called "Mixolydian tuning" doesn't work too well, unless you have the 1.5 fret.  I find that the 1-4-8 (C-F-C) tuning works better for those tunes if I'm not using the 1.5 fret. Otherwise you have to jump up to the bass string 6th fret to get the flat 7 on the melody if it dips below the tonic, which most of them do.

I would like to thank everyone for all of the helpful suggestions!  Our November meeting had about 6 people there.  Our December meeting had 7.  Our January meeting last Saturday?   We had 22 people!!!  YES!  So, it was not all dulcimer players.  We had a couple of ukulele players and a guitar player, but 22 people!!!!  YES!!!!!  Some of the people that attended are very interested in becoming dulcimer players and they wanted to come and learn what it was like to play the dulcimer.  (I think we have some budding dulcimer players!!!)

Ironically enough, we were SO busy in the library that day (I am the assistant branch manager at the library where we are having the library-sponsored dulcimer meeting), that I was trapped at the main circulation desk helping all of the patrons of the library!  I didn't even get to take my dulcimer out of the case and join in the fun.  :(

Even though I didn't get to join in, I am so excited that there is so much interest in the group!

I just wanted to share an update with you all!  

ken,

If I was in DAA i would have 18 & 18 for the AA's? Is 12's too way off, since that is what Warren said he would used, or could he have forgotten it's a small size - is there a size good for both or either tunings DAA & DAd?

Maybe I'll look for a how to video on wooden pegs

thanks

Hi Robin and John,

A different slant on this for you. Take a look at the distance between root and fifth for any particular mode and see how well it matches the fifth you have between drones.

Read my article on Modes and Modal Tunings called The Uncontrite Modal Folker , here: 

http://fotmd.com/forums/forum/dulcimer-resourcestabs-books-websites-dvds/15050/the-uncontrite-modal-folker

There are seven Modes and Modal tunings, each of which has a traditional Keynote associated with it.  The Keynote is the note to which the bass string is tuned:

Mode...........Keynote.............Tuning
Aeolian..............A...................traditional tuning AEG
Locrian..............B...................typical tuning Bb F G
Ionian................C....................traditional tuning CGG
Dorian...............D...................traditional tuning DAG
Phrygian............E...................typical dulcimer tuning E Bb G
Lydian...............F....................typical dulcimer tuning F E Bb
Mixolydian........G...................traditional tuning GDg

Other common (but not Modal) tunings are Bagpipe (1-8-8, such as Ddd), Galax (8-8-8, such as ddd) and Merv Rowley's 1-3-5 tuning.

Marg -- the whole phrase was "Regarding bagpipe tuning - this never works well for me in Mixolydian Mode in JI".  That is to say that for John Shaw, playing Mixolydian Mode (the modal name for DAd and other 1-5-8 tunings) tunes when his Just Intonated dulcimer is tuned to Bagpipe tuning does not work well for him.

Wooden pegs require a little more patience that geared tuners, uke tuners or autoharp pegs.

Using the Strothers String Gauge Calculator, a 20" VSL instrument tuned Mixolydian DAd or Bagpipe Ddd would want strings at least 13, 18, 26.

Warren May's groundhog looks like your dulcimer, george but with f sound holes and smaller. What type of wood do you think yours is?

I haven't had pegs before, is there a trick to tuning it or restringing?

George,

You haven't had your '82 Warren May long but what do you think of it up to now?

Checking the string gauge, Warren I think said 12 12 12 24 or 26, can't remember but checking unless I am ready it wrong shows heavier strings. What would be good size strings for Warren's 20" short fat hourglass?

 What does mode in JI mean?

I'm looking to get a '81 Warren May small, fat dulcimer called a groundhog he use to make but doesn't anymore. It has a string length of just 20" overall length 28.5".

I think at the present it is tune to DAd, reading all these post it sounds like it should be tuned to DAA. Since I don't know what's it life has been up to now, can I just change it back to DAA with no problem? Will this be the best tuning for it but could it handle DAd if I wanted to play something in that tuning? There is no 6.5 fret so I guess this would be the 'old scale'? Warren always like DAA best Is that why DAA is the best intonation for it?

I will be seeing it next week when I travel to KY. I have only hear it over the phone and seen photos so far. Even over the phone it sounded really nice, like a Warren May's dulcimer would. I did get to talk to Warren, he said since they were smaller they were more custom made. He said he had recently found one for himself to add to his own collection.  

Hi Dusty,

Yes, we know Steve Eulberg.

Thanks!

Patricia