Forum Activity for @ellen-rice

Good morning! -- Y'all will laugh at this one: This week is packed with family responsibilities -- no special burdens, but just a lot going on. The dulcimer is laid out on the sideboard, waiting for me to have time to get started -- it's like its 11:45 a.m. on Thanksgiving and I'm starving to get started, but the last car of family is pulling up in the driveway, and I can't launch into what I want to do just yet.

Who knew dulcimers were that alluring? This forum clan, I know. I make a strum on the instrument as I go past - a sad carrot stick to hold me over

Ellen, that's wonderful news! Sounds like you found a good support system in your friend. Walnut is a wonderful choice of wood- a very warm and resonant sound. We look forward to seeing pix. You are on your way down your musical journey!

If you want to gamble on an ebay instrument, there a Folkcraft up for auction that's still below $100.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hand-Crafted-Dulcimer-by-Folkcraft-Heart-sh...

That could be a very nice instrument, but you have no way to be sure....however, it does come with 14-day after delivery return if you decide you don't want to keep it. It has geared pegs and a 6.5 fret, a case, and a beginning instruction book, so that could be a very good deal. I think it's cherry, which has a nice "voice" and it doesn't look all banged up from the photos. I have purchased some VERY nice instruments on eBay, so if I needed another one , then I would definitely consider this for purchase. I already own several Folkcraft dulcimers, however....

Another thing to consider is Dave Lynch's Sweetwoods Student dulcimer, considered by many to be a top-of-the-line student dulcimer. FOTMD Ken Hulme says "I happen to own a Student Model by Dave "Harpmaker" Lynch. Cost is $125 plus shipping. Sound is incredible - as good or better than instruments costing twice as much. Others will tell you their preferences."

Folkfan then added to Ken's comments:

One point about Sweetwoods Instruments is that Dave does have a $100 credit towards a future upgrade that goes with his student dulcimer. He will give a buyer the $100 towards a more expensive instrument if the student instrument is returned in reasonable condition when the next dulcimer is ordered. Basically then you'd be paying $25.00 for the student as a type of rental fee.

Dave has had this policy for years but has had very few returns of the student but he's had many repeat buyers. His repeat customers say things like, "My daughter, son, cousin or friend is going to be using my student instrument", "It's perfect for taking to a festival, camping, traveling, etc." and "But I love the way it sounds".

I also own 2 of Dave Lynch's dulcimer's! I've heard many people echo the comments made by Ken and Folkfan, and my cherry Dave Lynch teardrop dulcimer is one of my top favorites--I took it to the last workshop I went to, earlier this month.

Many of us also started on cardboard dulcimers...in this case it's definitely the precision of the fretboard construction that makes these great, under $100 instruments to learn on. The cardboard box makes an adequate soundbox, and they come in different colors, as an added bonus! Mine was ordered from Backyard Music Co., I believe (It's been a long time!)

LET US KNOW WHAT YOU FINALLY DECIDE ON! We're all hoping you find something that meets your newbie needs!

You're on your way now! Does he play as well as build? He may be able to get you started learning to play.

Success!

I called a friend, Burt, who I know as a local musician, fluent with guitar and banjo. My thought was to ask him to evaluate the pricey dulcimer at the local music store. But when I stopped by to show him some of the details, he said, "Ah, Ellen, did you know I make these? He had five dulcimers out on the table to show me and we spent an hour discussing them. I came home with a very affordable and lovely choice. It has a bright, clear sound and is made of walnut. No yucky strings either!

I feel confident that I have a suitable beginners instrument from a source that is welcoming of my questions. I'll post a picture eventually. Thank you, everyone for your encouragements and cautions. I am relieved that I didn't spend big bucks on an instrument that might have had issues.

Y'all are treasures! I am learning every day. People have been very generous with their insights -- and somehow it makes me smile that "wormy chestnut" is supposed to be a good thing to find. Onward!

Ellen, you said "I'm concerned it may be from a kit and I don't know how to evaluate that."

Generally, there is nothing wrong with a kit dulcimer -- as long as the assembler did an adequate or better job of fitting the bits and pieces together. Look for good, clean, tight joints; no glue spots from sloppy work; lay a straight edge on top the frets to check flatness of the fretboard; and a nicely applied finish without blotches or dribble bumps.

I applaude your effort to purchase locally where you can get "touchy-feelie" with the instrument and find one that speaks to you. Remember that sound is the most important factor - not looks, not tuning machines, not kind of wood.

If you should decide against a local purchase, one builder than many of us here have had absolutely superior experiences with is Dave, "Harpmaker" Lynch of Sweet Woods Dulcimers. Although I've been playing for nearly 40 years and have built a couple hundred instruments, I own one of his Student models and am very impressed with the quality of sound, not to mention the workmanship. For $125 (with a trade-in policy if you later decide on an upgraded instrument) plus shipping it is one of the best deals on the dulcimer market. Check out Dave's website:

www.sweetwoodsinstruments.com

What did we do without the internet? I have learned tons today (hadn't thought of a cruise in a long time - no worries, Carrie, it made me smile!).

I am going to ask a friend to stop by the shop and evaluate the consignment instrument -- then hold off until we get to Seattle next week and will try a McSpadden, a Black Mountain and a student model. At that point I should . . . be really confused.

Ah, THANK YOU. I spent a nervous hour this afternoon wondering if I should dash back to the shop and then decided that due diligence is due diligence and I hadn't done that yet.

A few years ago I went with my (then) teen son to look at a used car. It was a souped up sporty model. I insisted on a mechanic's check and it ended up being well worth the trouble of getting the mechanic's advice. It was funny to see my son's face as the mechanic began going down the list of the problems the glowing machine had (At that age he would not have heard this news from me).

It wasn't just my son who learned a great deal that day. Bargain hunting is best done by the super knowledgeable. Those of us who are less knowledgeable need both ears going to take in advice.

The hunt continues . . . Ellen

Ellen, Walnut Valley is not a generally well known maker. Frankly, I feel that $400 one you link to is quite overpriced. I would not myself buy the one for $280 either, if the strings are shot and I couldn't hear somebody playing it well first. With tax, that's going to be around $300. There are many dulcimers available out there to buy that are in the $150-400 range that are made by highly regarded makers, which you can buy with more confidence.

Excellent points. The Walnut Valley Dulcimer company of Burns, KS seems to be out of business. I tried the 800-633-9477 number Carrie gave and it connects me to a "you have won a chance to go on a cruise" opportunity.

Here is a link to an ad from Birmingham (AL??) that shows a similar instrument:

http://birmingham.ebayclassifieds.com/musical-instruments/alexandria/handcrafted-high-quality-dulcimer/?ad=19468005

That seller says "of beautiful exotic woods" --

The instrument available locally says it is "Model SR" --- and, again, thank you for your help on this!

I echo Strumelia's words of wisdom. Buy the best your budget will allow right from the get go. If I had taken this advice my music room wouldn't be filled with so many not very playable dulcimers. But I did start with a $75.00 dulcimer that was not very playable and learned the basics on it and got jump started. I still have that old little dulcimer and its made a beautiful wall hanger.

Today I went to see a Walnut Valley dulcimer. It is beautiful to look at -- but the strings were in sad shape, so it was a bit hard to really understand what it would sound like (I suspect it will have a 'bright' sound). But it wasn't $150 -- it was $280. The sales lady said the wood was "walnut' -- Goodness, this is hard to evaluate.

Opinions and testing hints much appreciated -- And I do very much appreciate the many kind words of welcome here.

E

I'll let you know what I find -- we have a trip to Seattle next week so I'll see if DH will humor me with a stop at the string shops. How do I find an innocent face when I'm plotting a major purchase? We'll see if my wily ways are up to snuff. His antennae is already quivering . . . dagnab it, he sure is smart!

Diane, I like your plan.

It's very tricky for a person new to stringed instruments to purchase one. There be SHARKS in them waters, and they own businesses that supply cheap junk dulcimer shaped objects to unsuspecting purchasers. (Also guitar, banjo, and mandolin shaped objects, the RATS!) The Apple Creeks mentioned above, for example. Some folks found a decent one, mostly by accident, and it was reasonably playable. Others opened the package to find it would not play in tune, perhaps the frets were incorrectly placed, perhaps the action was not properly set up. Don't buy by mail or over the net without the advice of others who know the reputation of the maker. It is possible to buy a very serviceable dulcimer for l$100 to $150 from several makers. They will not be fancy instruments, as more fine detail work costs money. But a lot of the fine detail work doesn't make the instrument play or sound better, much of it is cosmetic enhancements. (Of course, we see these works of art on our friends' laps, and want our own, that's human nature. ) McSpadden enjoys a very good reputation among their customers, as do owners of some of the others listed by Carrie, Wayne and Strumelia above. A quick search will turn up web sites for Flat Creek, Lark In The Morning. and McSpadden, I don't know about Walnut Creek.If you can locate a dulcimer club in your area, or a few players, you may be able to get some first hand advice and shopping assistance. Gila Mountain Dulcimers has a listing of clubs on their web site. http://www.gilamountaindulcimers.com/clubs.htm I don't know if Gila still builds dulcimers, but at least look for clubs or players in your area. Here in Ohio we have several builders who enjoy a good reputation, but that's a long way from your area. It would be best to see and hear the instrument before you buy. Better still if you can play it yourself, but that comes from having one to learn on. Your second purchase comes from a much stronger position, guided by your experiences. What you don't want is to be guided by hindsight, but too often that happens. Wait a few days and see who else pops up here with first hand knowledge of the makers you have located.

Everyone's different. here's my own journey-

Long ago I used to buy real inexpensive bargain instruments as a first instrument. I usually found I wanted a slightly better one only a couple months later, and I then I'd avoid the hassle of selling the cheapo one in order to buy the next level up. Repeating this pattern, I wound up with too many cheap instruments that were a pain in the butt to resell. And some of them had 'issues' that I didn't feel good about passing on to the next person. My personal epiphany came one day when I wanted a really awesome banjo (after playing for two years), but I felt overwhelmed and discouraged by the fact that I had EIGHT cheap Ebay impulse buys hanging on my wall- gathering dust and not very playable for one reason or another. I buckled down that year and sold ALL of those cheap problem banjos. I learned that for me at least, it made way more sense to buy 1 quality $350 instrument during the first two years than three $125 ones during that same first two years.

From that, I learned it was a better plan for me to first do a little homework online, and then to buy something that wasn't the cheapest level. Buying a mid-range instrument is not only easier and nicer to play, but it's also actually easier to re-sell without taking a loss, should you either give up playing or want a more custom instrument later on.

That's just my own experience.

I'd like to also mention that Lark in the Morning is I believe run by Larkin Bryant and her husband (is it still?) and they are good people. If you can possibly go try out what they have in person, it might be a smart way to comparison shop before you plunk any money down. I know it's hard to not go for instant gratification, but sometimes a couple weeks of shopping around can pay off bigtime, with benefits that last for a long while to come.

I am an absolute neophyte beginning the process of selecting a first instrument. As I look around locally (Olympia, WA) I have found:

A "Walnut Valley" dulcimer listed at a local music store for $150. I will definitely go look at it but it sounds like it has old timey pegs for tuning. I'm concerned it may be from a kit and I don't know how to evaluate that.

A store that sells McSpadden instruments in Seattle ("Dusty Strings") which start at (for me) a breathtaking $375 to $450

A store in Seattle (Lark in the Morning) that has a variety of offerings from $180 up -- a $200 choice made of rosewood appeals.

I could also try a Flat Creek student dulcimer that is $110 and has an engraved fret board -- but is boxy.

Words of advice would be appreciated. I know that there are many different opinions out there and I am glad to hear from different mindsets.

Me? I am a middle aged being with a few years of high school band a gazillion years ago. I have champagne tastes on a beer budget. I adore instant gratification (and chocolate ice cream with fudge chunks). My "instant gratification" side says "go with the Flat Creek student model -- my "Ohh, I adore the classy" side thinks I should save up some shekels and get a more glorious instrument that I would cherish.

Hmm, The Dr. Jeckyll, Mr. Hyde of dulcimer shopping has arrived. Opinions, please!

Lovely playing, Robin. And good news about the new CD. Can't wait to hear it.

Very enjoyable, Robin --kind of smooth and mellow...

Thanks Bobby

I think that the shape of the body makes the guitar look bigger than it is. It only has a 23" scale and narrow deep C neck but it looks like a jumbo guitar! The body is quite compact and smaller than many tenor guitars I've seen. I've not seen another one this shape though ?

Thank you all for your comments

I feel very lucky that this tenor guitar found its way to me as I wasn't looking for one. I was given the instrument in a trade for one of my resonator guitars - in fact I was given this tenor guitar, a Frank Profitt and an Ellis Wolf mountain banjos and an 1890s Essex banjo. All are wonderful instruments in their own ways. And, Helen, I'm going to see if I can use them all on the CD project. It is taking some time to put it all together but I'm working on it little by little when time allows.

Wow, that tenor guitulcimer sounds great, Robin. It has a really nice, warm sound. And your playing is just precious. You display such patience with that slow rolling melody. Nice work!

I got this beautiful 1930s Regal tenor guitar in a trade a couple of weeks ago. They are usually tuned in climbing 5ths like a mandolin but starting with a C. But I thought I'd tune it instead to DAda and just play melody over drones on it So there you go - rather than trying to play a contemporary dulcimer like a contemporary guitar. I'm trying to play and old guitar like an old dulcimer I'msort ofgetting the hang of playing the instrument with just one finger!!! I may get as far as two finger playing some time

Thanks John. I found that I could write ABC notation after a very short learning curve too. And all the free programs out that can print it out musically much better than I could by hand.

But it will do "voices" so you can have both a melody and harmony lines. Here's a link for a quick explanation on how to do it.

http://www.lesession.co.uk/abc/abc_extensions.htm#voices

No, the only downside I've found is there is no TAB feature (at least I haven't found it). You can do it by typing out the TAB like lyrics (1st verse is D string, 2nd verse is A string, 3rd verse is d string) but that's kind of tedious way to do it.

John Tose said:

On the whole I find it very easy to use and after a bit of practice to write tunes out in. So much so that if I was jotting a tune down in a notebook now I'd do it in ABC, then when I got home I'd type it into the program and it'd play it for me.

Brilliant. One downside is that it only works for a single melody line.

I use ABC notation all the time. It's a great way to store a lot of music scores and pass them on as they use very little memory, it all being just writing. There are a lot of freely available software options depending on your operating system. I used to use ABC2Win but when we upgraded to Windows XP it wouldn't work properly so I use ABC Navigator instead. Only downside of that one is that it doesn't include a beginners guide to writing ABC. For the uninitiated the ABC above for Little Liza Jane - you would highlight it, and copy the whole thing into an ABC file on your computer, then using your ABC program when you open it it transforms it into a nicely laid out score. The program will even play it back to you, including endless repeats and at whatever speed you want, which is great for learning new tunes. ABC Navigator uses a quite pleasant concertina-like sound.

On the whole I find it very easy to use and after a bit of practice to write tunes out in. So much so that if I was jotting a tune down in a notebook now I'd do it in ABC, then when I got home I'd type it into the program and it'd play it for me.

Brilliant. One downside is that it only works for a single melody line. So great for folk music, but not if you want a score that includes a harmony line. Another is that ABC written on one program might not be entirely compatible with another, so if you've downloaded a song, you might have to change it a bit to work on your program. Looking at Liza above, I can see in fact that it wouldn't play properly on ABC navigator - it wouldn't like the unfinished bars at the end of line one and 3. Easy to fix though.

Just do a search for ABC notation and you'll find useful `how to' guides.

I've never seen this, before. How do you interpret it?

I've just recently joined FOTMD but was wondering if many have any experience using ABC notation?

I know that there are literally thousands (if not more) of traditional songs written in ABC notation and there a quite a few programs (mostly free) that can be used to write, edit, play and print.

For example, Little Liza Jane would be written like this:

T:Little Liza Jane
S:Friends
Z:Nigel Gatherer
L:1/8
M:4/4
K:A
ef | a2 f2 e3 e | fecB A2 ef | a2 f2 e2 c2 | f6
ef | a2 e2 e3 e | fecB A4 | cBAF E2 F2 | A4 A2 :|
z2 | Bccc c3 A | B2 A6 | Bccc cB A2 | F6
E2 | F A3 B3 A | B c3 B3 A | cBAF E2 F2 | A4 A2 :|]

And although they haven't added the ability to do TAB yet, there is a way to add it using lyrics (3 lines of lyrics using finger numbers instead of words or syllables).

I will Kenneth. I've been messing around with the piano for 15 to 20 min. just about every morning since my discovery. We have a regular piano and an electric piano. I really like playing the electric experimenting with the different sounds. Lots of fun.

But right now I am spending a horrible amount of time preparing for a family reunion the end of this month and a Christmas presentation in Dec. I've fallen in love with a new song I am learning to play, "Beautiful Star of Bethlehem". Love the words and music. I've heard this song for years, but never appreciated it until now.

Terry, I love those "ah ha moments" when they occur. Glad to hear about your piano discovery. Keep exploring and experimenting. That's the fun of music.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Ken,I figured that was what the black keys are for, but thanks for the confirmation. I have already began using some of the black keys. I don't really know when to, but by ear I find the right sound.

Lois, I certainly don't play by ear, but more and more I am finding it easier to pick out a song without TAB. I am also getting the hang of playing songs in DAA or DGD, while tuned to DAD or CGC or even BF#B. I just move up the fret board.

In fact, I have dedicated my Don Gardner built dulcimer to playing in noter/drone, always tuned to DAA or DGD. Playing all the songs I play in CGC in DGD, without TAB. Playing by ear? I don't think so, but I believe I'm making progress. I sincerely believe that learning to play in noter/drone has opened up another "ah ha" moment. I think the learning key has been not being stuck in DAd playing with the noter, using the noter or pointer finger to press the middle string. DGD or DAA forces one to use the melody string in its entirety (if that makes sense). The high ringing sound is just beautiful, so old timey sounding.

Good luck Lois.

Terry

Those black keys are for the frets your dulcimer doesn't have....

Years of piano left me figuring there were those who played by ear and those who couldn't. I even too one of those one night wonder courses on playing by ear, but had a heck of a time figuring out where to start. My other instruments never helped as I still needed SMN or at least tab even though I could transpose to different keys. Only dulcimer has helped me realize even I can pick out melodies and the rest of the accompaniment. Okay it's still fairly primitive and at a beginner level, but I'm looking at the BINGO or A HA moment from the opposite side and loving it.

Ahaaaaa! Thanks Paul. Another window opens up.

You are using C for D, D for E, etc. Now try using D for D, E for E, etc. When you get to F, you will find it sounds wrong. Go to the black key just right of F, and it will be the F# you need for the key of D. Another "Aha!" moment? That's what the black keys are for. When you get to C, you will find that a great many songs will need the black key just right of C-C#. Go try it, your wife will be tickled!I learned enough about scales & chords playing guitar to find songs on a piano. I won't ever be mistaken for a pianist, but I can make songs come out of it.Kicking & screaming, but they come out.

Thanks man, I'm enjoying it. Still playing the dulcimer though, it will always be my main squeeze. Ain't no piano gonna turn my clock around.

R N Lackey said:

That's great, Terry. Keep up the good work!

That's great, Terry. Keep up the good work!

Yep.

Carrie, I'm with Dan, it's just "too cool". My wife thinks it cool too. It's like this neat little discovery took the big secret out of the closet. Now the challenge is to figure out how to use more than one finger and what those black keys are good for. Carrie, I don't know much about a pump organ, I just hope it's not something that's catching.

Last night I experienced a new "ah ha" moment. My wife plays piano and over the years I touched the one in our home several times, but it was so foreign to me the touch didn't last long.

Well, after playing the dulcimer for 18 months now, I sat down at the piano and "bingo!". Starting at middle C on the piano white keys (wife told me this much), I discovered I can play, with one finger, songs that I play on the dulcimer. Middle C is D, next key to the right of middle C is E (tuned DAd), and so on and so forth up the key board. Middle string on the dulcimer are the keys to the left of middle C.

This may sound pretty elementary to some, but to me this was huge in understanding music and the scary piano. Just delighted by this discovery.

Terry