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Hmmm....I should bring some salad too. I took this photo this morning in my garden:
Forum Activity for @strumelia
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Hmmm....I should bring some salad too. I took this photo this morning in my garden:
800!?!!
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Red Algae frybread? Okaaaaaay. I'm gonna call my friend Andrew Zimmern. Like Mikey of the commercials, he'll eat anything!
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Ken, eggs would be great, they are good just broken over the fried laver at the last minuteI You do all LIKE laver bread don't you? Its a bit slimey I know, but as my Mother used to say "stop moaning, it's good for you!"JohnH Flint Hill said:
We'll bring eggs. And goose quill noters as party favors. We've only got three geese. I'll tell 'em they better get to work.
800!?!!
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We'll bring eggs. And goose quill noters as party favors. We've only got three geese. I'll tell 'em they better get to work.
800!?!!
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Thanks, Rod, I'll take 'em!I see Strumelia's skillets will be in use-- those 'Dutch Babies' look good!-- so can't borrow them.
800!?!!
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792 members right now....
I think I'll make some 'Dutch Babies' in my cast iron skillets, made with batter and fresh fruit. Here are some I made last year: 
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Robin Thompson said:
Robin I know there are at least 6 if not more iron skillets in our garage.. you're more than welcome to borrow them.. that just leaves about 193 more to get...I make a decent whole wheat crust pizza in a cast iron skillet. Trouble is, only got one skillet. So, I'm thinking I'll need to borrow 199 skillets.
800!?!!
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I make a decent whole wheat crust pizza in a cast iron skillet. Trouble is, only got one skillet. So, I'm thinking I'll need to borrow 199 skillets.
800!?!!
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Coming up on 800 members of FOTMD pretty darn quick!
I'm bringing Grilled White Balsamic Marinated Flank Steak with Sauteed Wild Mushrooms (shiitake, mitake, crimini, & morels). I figure with 800 members, we'll need at least 400 pounds.
updated by @ken-hulme: 02/16/19 09:45:20PM
David;In addition to Lisa's N&D blog, you might want to check out the article I wrote on EVerythingdulcimer.com called "Get Noterized".Other than a noter made from very hard wood, bamboo or whatever, all you need is a pick to strum with (or not).Tunings? Generally we tune to the mode most appropriate for the song/tune. Much more music is written in the Major scale (Ionian Mode) than anything else, so an Ionian tuning (CGG, DAA, GDD) is a good place to start. The scale then starts on the third fret and runs to the 10th fret. You'll have 3 notes below the Tonic and several notes above the upper end of the scale.The whole "trick" to playing N&D well is fine finger control to keep the noter parallel to the plane of the strings (coming down flat not nose first or tail first). Also keeping the noter at right angles to the strings.Holding? There are two basic schools - Thumb on Top, and Index Finger on Top. Thumb on Top works best if your fretboard is very tall - more than 3/4", so there is room for your hand between the plane of the strings and soundboard. Use your fingers/hand as a "stop" so that the noter does not run into the middle or bass strings.Check out the references and then get back to us with more specific questions, please... We'll be glad toanswer them.Welome to The Dark Side!!!!
Hello David and welcome. In my opinion you can't go wrong if you take some time to look at Strumila's"Mountain Dulcimer Noter Drone Blog" As for tuning, well, lots of differingsuggestions might be offered, Daa or Dac spring to my mind, but you can have a lot of fun just playing around finding out what you(and your instrument) like best.Regards, JohnH
updated by @john-henry: 02/15/16 09:20:58AM
I have heard this tuning referred to as a "newer" tuning, but my family often played in this tuning. I grew up knowing about it and just referred to it as "Ward-chord" tuning because I had never seen anyone else do this.I thought my dad made it up so my mom could easily play chords to his melody. He was always looking for the easy way to do things and this couldn't be any easier than strumming open as your I chord, barring all strings at the 3rd fret as the IV chord, and barring all strings at the 4th fret as the V chord.Dad and mom always played the courting dulcimer with dad playing melody, mom playing chords, and I joined on another dulcimer usually playing harmony.When I play this style with the melody, I play the melody with my thumb as a noter and barre the other two strings at either the 3rd or 4th fret according to what chord it should be. I played this style for Steve Seiffert last fall and he had never seen anyone else play this way. His 1-3-5 style is totally different and more complicated. I just played what sounded good to me growing up and it seemed to be right to me?I wonder if I should try to do a workhop on it sometime? It is very, very simple and fun.Anyway, that's just my two cents worth.KendraPS: as I think about it, I have always said the tuning backwards from what other people say. For example I say D-D-G (G being the bass note) and most people say G-D-D (G being the bass note) I don't know why? Anyway when I tune to 1-3-5, I say it backwards as D-B-G . . . (G being the bass note)I have also heard it referred to as the "N" "B" "C" tuning because those are the notes of the chord it makes.
I have heard this tuning referred to as a "newer" tuning, but my family often played in this tuning. I grew up knowing about it and just referred to it as "Ward-chord" tuning because I had never seen anyone else do this.I thought my dad made it up so my mom could easily play chords to his melody. He was always looking for the easy way to do things and this couldn't be any easier than strumming open as your I chord, barring all strings at the 3rd fret as the IV chord, and barring all strings at the 4th fret as the V chord.Dad and mom always played the courting dulcimer with dad playing melody, mom playing chords, and I joined on another dulcimer usually playing harmony.When I play this style with the melody, I play the melody with my thumb as a noter and barre the other two strings at either the 3rd or 4th fret according to what chord it should be. I played this style for Steve Seiffert last fall and he had never seen anyone else play this way. His 1-3-5 style is totally different and more complicated. I just played what sounded good to me growing up and it seemed to be right to me?I wonder if I should try to do a workhop on it sometime? It is very, very simple and fun.Anyway, that's just my two cents worth.KendraPS: as I think about it, I have always said the tuning backwards from what other people say. For example I say D-D-G (G being the bass note) and most people say G-D-D (G being the bass note) I don't know why? Anyway when I tune to 1-3-5, I say it backwards as D-B-G . . . (G being the bass note)I have also heard it referred to as the "N" "B" "C" tuning because those are the notes of the chord it makes.
I haven't tried this tuning, but I already have questions. If you play noter style in DF#A tuning, your drone is a major chord, D major. This works if there are no minor chords in the song, but what happens when the song contains both major & minor chords? The third note of the chord(F#,here) defines the chord as major or minor. The I/III drone is a clear major chord. The I/IV or DA drone is an ambiguous neither major nor minor drone that can be used for either major or minor. Why? Exactly because of this ambiguity. It's neither, but contains the notes common to both. A "D" chord consists of D,F# &A. A Dm consists of D, F & A. The flatted F natural makes it a minor chord. I say flatted because the scale in D doesn't use an F natural, it uses F#, so F natural is flatted from the note that occurs in the scale. Dm doesn't belong to this key.Using DF#A tuning for chord style playing makes sense to me, as it gives you a chromatic scale, which at least in theory, lets you make all the chords you may need,if the chord notes are within reach from the melody note you need at a give point in the song. Again, I haven't yet tried this tuning, but the idea intrigues me. I may be playing with it shortly.Paul
As I said originally, I think I might try it out, when I have the time. I just wonder how it would sound with noter&drone play. What sort of chords would come out of the box?
updated by @b-ross-ashley: 02/13/16 08:09:46PM
"Do you think renaissance and nylgut ought to do the trick with a mix of down- and up-picking???"Ken, it should be GREAT to play it like that. Do you know that those 60's Kay banjos (and basses too) are much sought after and beloved by appreciators of 'down-home' vintage banjos? They have a great sound unless they have been messed up or poorly set up in some way along the line. Lucky you!
Great discussion.Just bought a 60s Kay open-back. Pot looks like pressed-wood composite, not bakelite. It's not here yet. Neck's straight, guitar-type tuners, pretty basic. Has a steel tensioner, not a dowel rod.Do you think renaissance and nylgut ought to do the trick with a mix of down- and up-picking???Was intending to get a Bill Miller skin head, but reading what Lisa wrote makes me think I got enough trouble already. We live in humidity heaven here.
What kind of tailpiece do you have? If it's an adjustable one that hangs out over the head, like a Kirschner, Presto, or clamshell, you might first want to try adjusting the angle. Lower/tighter (closer to the head) will give a brighter tone, and looser should make for a softer sound. I can do that on one banjo (clamshell tailpiece), not the other (old Elite tailpiece ca. 1910).Have you stuffed anything behind the head, inside the banjo? I get rid of overtones and dampen the sound by packing material (lately a fleece sunglasses bag, rolled up) between the dowel stick and the head.Splitting heads (skin) was too much of a hassle for me. Now I only use synthetic.I'd always go for the simplest possible solution first.
Hunter, am I correct in thinking this is an antique banjo?If so, then the pot may be slightly out of true and not a perfect circle, which can complicate matters if you are changing types of heads. It can be done, but sometimes there are issues that need to be solved.Pot slightly warped out of true, brackets that wont fit over modern flesh hoops, odd non-standard sized pot, etc. What kind of head is on there now? Is there anything wrong with it, like holes or splitting?If the head is ok on an antique banjo, I would leave it alone. A LOT can be done to change tone by tweaking instead: your setup, string material and gauges, the tailpiece type and tension, head tension, the bridge used... I would fiddle with all those things before I changed a perfectly good functional head on an antique banjo. Even a plastic frosted 'bluegrass head' can sound old and plunky if you tweak all the other stuff just right.
If it's a modern banjo, then changing the head is 'usually' less tricky.Personally, I've done it all- frosted plastic head, Fiberskin, calfskin, Renaissance, you name it, I've spent time installing them and playing on them on various +/- 18 banjos that I've owned, set up, fixed and/or tweaked. I play a lot at outside camping festivals and I did find it to be very tedious dealing with the humidity and real calfskin heads. It got old fast. Real gut strings had the same problem absorbing humidity and literally getting soft like al dente pasta (!) on rainy warm humid summer days while camping. Nylon strings had no such issue and sounded almost like gut.After much experimentation, I found that Renaissance heads gave me a sound very close to real calfskin but without any of the inherent problems. Better sound than even the Fiberskin heads. That's now what I use on all 7 of my banjos. (except the delicate 1800's antique one, which still retains its old calfskin head).
http://savethebanjos.com/Skin%20Head%20How-To.htm Here's instructions for installing the head. Another thing you might try first is a lower tuning, especially with nylon or Nylgut strings. Aquilla makes the Nylgut strings in two variations, one is tuned to a lower key, I think it's open E. The relationship is the same as G tuning, so all the fingerings are the same, but it plays in a lower key. You can also still retune for the equivalent of the double C and modal tunings, but they will be lower also. Double C would work out to A, the G modal would be E modal. I tried Nylguts on my banjo, and liked them a lot, but I really didn't try a lot of re tuning , as I mostly play in Double C. You may find nylon stretches a lot when you change tunings, and may take a bit to stabilize in each new tuning. We have Nylguts on both of our uke'sand they sound good also.Paul
What kind of head is on it now? And how much plunk is too much? The ultimate in plunk is a natural head on a gourd. If you were looking to buy a banjo, I would suggest buying a larger than normal pot, say 12" or 13 ". The standard these days seems to be 11", but partly because a brighter sound is in vogue, especially for bluegrass players. As you already have a banjo, a new head makes more financial sense.Be aware that natural heads are affected by humidity. You may find the head needs to be tightened on rainy days, and loosened in dry weather. If left too tight during dry weather it may shrink enough to split. The synthetic heads don't have this problem as they don't absorb or release moisture. This isn't a major consideration, just something to be aware of.Last time I looked, natural heads were about $50, but they usually need to be mounted to a metal ring. I think the ring is sold separate from the hide. Somewhere on the web I saw a set of instructions for doing all this. I'll see if I bookmarked it & post it if I find it.
The reason I ask what brand Hunter is that I have used cheaper Bella brand nylon banjo strings- for me they stretch and break way too easily. I've also used nylon fishing line in various cool thickness. That too stretched way to much and was forever bouncy- like playing on a trampoline.Switching to Nylagut nylon banjo strings....really good stiffer tension, broke way less often great sound and great response. For the price of a pack you can check it out. It makes a HUGE difference in giving a really old sounding plunky tone instantly. If you like them and want to keep them, then you might be smart to widen your nut and bridge slots for the two thickest strings at least- they are thicker than steel strings and ought to be seated properly in the slots for long term playing. Personally I find that switching to nylon strings will make a much bigger change to 'plunky' than changing to calfskin heads. I have tried every combination possible for many years on many banjos. I've played for years on both steel and nylon strings, and all kinds of heads, skin, renaissance, fiberskin....
Everything else being equal, a skin head will have a mellower, plunkier sound than a plastic head. In between the frosted, plastic head (brightest sound) and skin head (mellowest sound), you will find the Fyberskin head and the Renassaince head.Within limits you can also adjust the tension on the head by tightening or loosening the hook/nuts on the side of the banjo pot. A tighter head will have a brighter sound. A looser head will have a plunkier sound.Greg
updated by @greg-gunner: 02/12/16 06:10:29PM
There are a couple of other things involved here that come from the origins of some of the oldest songs and styles of playing. Modern music is very much chord based and relies on chords for it's harmonies. But older music frequently didn't use chords for harmony. Sometimes only a single root note was used. The root would normally be the keynote of the scale the tune was played in. Instruments of the violin and guitar families, are chromatic, and can play in a variety of keys. But strummed chords are really more of a late 19th/early20th century concept. Guitars were played by plucking individual strings,and chords were not generally fingered. Violins didn't play chords either, and it's a rare thing even now. Some fiddlers played double stops, or 2 strings at once, but by necessity these were adjacent strings. If the fiddler played a melody on the E string, the A string could be used as a drone. Moving the melody to the A string made the D string available as a drone. Likewise, the melody could be moved to the D string, using the G as the drone. It's not too surprising that so many fiddle tunes are played in the keys of A,D, & G. These were the easiest notes to drone as a harmony note. And if you think about it, the D drone leaves the A melody string in the same relationship as the dulcimer in DAA tuning. At some point, dulcimers were made as 3 course instruments, allowing a two note drone harmony. I don't know if this was the original configuration, or if 2 course dulcimers existed before the 3 course models that are so common now. This may also be why dulcimers are fretted the way they are: The fiddle player is using a I drone string and a V melody string in each of the cases I cited above. Just like the standard DAA dulcimer tuning, except the dulcimer has an extra drone string. Having the melody string start on the V instead of the I gives the player a few notes below the start of the scale to "walk up" to the starting point. The same configuration as the fiddle.Incidentally, this is also why Clawhammer and Old Time banjo players use multiple tunings- each tuning is designed to allow drones for a certain key. Bluegrass players seldom use these extra tunings, as Bluegrass is a chord based music.Paul
Ahhh!!!!!Galax tuning has some very specific advantages, particularly when you start playing with other musicians. From d,d,d,d you can play in the keys of D or G without re-tuning and, using a reverse capo at the first fret or tuning the drones up to e,e you can play in the key of A minor and A major. Those 4 keys are the standard session keys for old time and Celtic sessions.Whilst I would agree that Galax tuning is not as "sweet" as 1-5 drones when played solo it is an excellent tuning when you add one or more additional instruments. Additionally, as Folkfan says, you can use the bagpipe varient (or Galax) to produce a very ancient sound. The single drone (often the 5th rather than the root) is a feature of old Celtic music.Once you start playing with other musicians you will certainly "get" Galax and bagpipe.Robin
If you normally play in a chord or chord/melody style, getting used to the sound of the drones can be difficult perhaps. Since I've never played anything but drones, I'm quite used to them and find that songs such as Bonnie Dundee, Will Ye No Come Back Again?, Coulter's Candy, Flower of Scotland, The Minstrel Boy, Skye Boat Song and so on sound quite grand played in a Bagpipe tuning. The drones give the music the flavor or taste of the pipes where the drones are the same note only an octave apart and in tune with the chanter. So in olden days when the pipes weren't available (or forbidden), the dulcimer gave Celtic music and the Celtic ear the sound needed.I learned the Bagpipe tuning from an old book, so I'm in the key of C (1-8-8).
updated by @folkfan: 02/16/16 04:27:27AM
In our gatherings of old-time musicians ( sometimes several hundred at a time), the keys most often played in are G,D,A, and C. There are a LOT of oldtime fiddle tunes in C !! Some jam sessions go on for several hours all in the key of C. The C tunes have a very carnival/circus/rag flavor to them. I notice many of them seem to be from Georgia (U.S. deep south, not Russia
).Brian avoids playing in C because of his old hand injury, he can't make the stretches very well in C on his fiddle. I'm kind of glad about that, because the C fiddle tunes vaguely remind me of scary clowns! lol!!
Robin, I have no idea if your speculation is plausible, but I just want to applaud your last line: "you could drink, dance and drone with the devil in D . . . and then chime in church with the choir in C.!"That's a great line!D.T. Robin Clark said:
This is a very interesting thread!
I have no evidence for what I'm about to suggest, just drawing from your posts above.
I wonder if both the keys of C and D were actually regularly used in "Olden Days" (which arn't really that old - my house is the same age as the earliest dated MD). Different regions would have had different primary uses for the instrument and therefore taken tunes from differing sources.
Tunes in the key of C, the "church" key would have been more likely to be written down. Hymns would have been primarily composed on the pump organ/piano by musically literate folk and passed from community to community in written form. The first written books for MD would have come from musically literate folk, much of their material (hymns) would have been in the key of C and it would make sense to transpose folk songs for the MD into the same key for instruction.
Mountain music was more likely to be learned by ear. If you were listening to your uncle play a tune on the fiddle then you are most likely to copy it in the same key. The key of D makes sense as a base. These tunes would be passed from community to community by ear in an aural tradition and would not have been written down until outsider schollars became interested.
In some communities it is quite plausable that you could drink, dance and drone with the devil in D on a Saturday night and then chime in church with the choir in C on the Sunday morning!
Robin
This is a very interesting thread!I have no evidence for what I'm about to suggest, just drawing from your posts above.I wonder if both the keys of C and D were actually regularly used in "Olden Days" (which arn't really that old - my house is the same age as the earliest dated MD). Different regions would have had different primary uses for the instrument and therefore taken tunes from differing sources.Tunes in the key of C, the "church" key would have been more likely to be written down. Hymns would have been primarily composed on the pump organ/piano by musically literate folk and passed from community to community in written form. The first written books for MD would have come from musically literate folk, much of their material (hymns) would have been in the key of C and it would make sense to transpose folk songs for the MD into the same key for instruction.Mountain music was more likely to be learned by ear. If you were listening to your uncle play a tune on the fiddle then you are most likely to copy it in the same key. The key of D makes sense as a base. These tunes would be passed from community to community by ear in an aural tradition and would not have been written down until outsider schollars became interested.In some communities it is quite plausable that you could drink, dance and drone with the devil in D on a Saturday night and then chime in church with the choir in C on the Sunday morning!Robin
You are far less likely to break a string going from DAd to CGG than going CGG to DAd. Lowering the note lessens the tension on the string. Your melody string may end up mushy though if you have a string gauge designed for DAd. To tune down from D to C and A to G is to simply go down one note. To go from d to G is to go down 5 notes.I wouldn't hesitate to tune DAA to CGG and back again, but I would worry about tuning CGG to DAd as my strings are meant for a CGG tuning. To go up to the d is too high as the increased tension would more likely to break a string. If it didn't the string would probably be to tightly wound as to be unplayable anyway. Dana Harlan said:
As a beginner: I'd like to ask, with only one dulcimer so far, Is there any reason not to tune DAD to learn one song then tune CGG to try to learn another. Is this behavior likely to break strings? I did get some spare strings.
Dana - yes changing tunings is "liable to break strings". Maybe. Question is - does it matter?* Breaking strings will not harm your instrument.* Breaking strings will probably not harm you (but "no pain, no gain" as they say ) if you are tuning a moving string not a static string.* Breaking strings will not cost thousands (or even hundreds) of dollars (I pay about $2.50 a set from www.juststrings.com )You're going to change strings anyway every couple months (aren't you?). We're talking a day or two difference in use, probably, if you change tunings often versus rarely.String breakage should NEVER be a consideration when it comes to "should I re-tune or not"...Fact is that strings are gonna break. Get used to it; or buy a drum
