Well, as a follow up to all this, I happened to be in the local music store, which does carry McSpadden dulcimers, and they had four there to try, including, finally, an all walnut. The others were an all cherry, a cherry with redwood and a walnut with spruce top, though that last one was a ginger model. Well, I am more confuse than ever, lol, and it is clear that I will just have to keep trying out every duclimer I come across and just buy the first one that seems right (goldilocks syndrome). The cherry was brite and quite loud, and the walnut was round and mellow but louder than the cherry. The cherry with redwood seemed the mellowest of the three and to my ears not as sharply loud as the other two. (I tried with my aids in and out, btw). Finally the ginger. . . well, hard to compare since it is so small. It was not as loud, of course, and so the spruce was not painful as in my past experiences,but I don't like that sound (of the spruce), so that is simple enough. Plus I think the Gingers are just too small for me to feel comfy playing. 

So anyway, back to the drawing board - well, search path. 

Thank you all for the input and help. 

Nikolas, have you tried increasing the string gauges on your dulcimers?  This should reduce the pitch of the notes to a 'mellower' tone.  Just a thought.

Those are some handsome dulcimers! :)  Butternut is what some say the top of the dulcimer I am using now is. Some others say it is poplar. So, maybe I should keep an eye out on those tops and hickory. I have played an all cherry, deep body, and that was nice but very different. Had weird frets though.lol

I think you might be right on this. I just have to find some to try in person. 

I don't wear the aids when playing in general. Too much of a volume boost. The sensitivity that sometimes accompanies bad hearing is most noticeable when they are off. I do have a controller for the aids which allows me to lower the volume if I am in a situation where I need to be able to play and talk to others, and so I do that in clubs or jams. I actually wear earplugs now when I play at home for a bit of protection rather than to silence the dulcimer or my uke. I don't have to do that when I use an electric guitar because I can keep the sound source far from my head. The one I have now is not too loud, but has some physical issues I don't much like, and I have borrowed and tried others that do not cause me pain, but I would like to try some others. I just know that spruce and I don't mix when it comes to anything acoustic. 

Robert, that looks like a pretty good identical bunch for comparing tone.  A lovely sight, I might add. 

Here I built a bunch of identical dulcimers with a mix of woods. All sounded maybe 90% in common with each other. Type of woods and weight defined the last 10%. Although I've come to my own conclusions about wood choice another person probably would not agree. Butternut, poplar, cherry are my favorites... Robert... 

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I'm wondering if the hearing aid is the culprit rather than the dulcimer.  Have you explored any other options with your audioligist or ear specialist?

Nikolas, from what I have read of your sound desires it strikes me that the combination of a walnut body and a butternut (walnut family...slightly less density) might be what you seek, but actual sound and individual perception of sound can vary somewhat (the same is true with pitch...some people can be out of tune and not even realize it due to their own perception of sound).  Wood choices are extremely important in the sound of a well designed instrument.  A dulcimer made of all woods with tremendous density could have the same basic sound quality as a brick with strings (trust me, I've heard it).  The hickory could also be a nice choice.  All hickory is usually a more subdued and mellow sound, while a hickory top with a walnut body keeps the mellow quality with a bit more volume.  There is nothing like trying them yourself, but if that isn't an option, these would be my recommendations based upon what you have written.  I hope that this is helpful to you in your quest for the right dulcimer for YOU.

On the site for Ron Gibson Dulcimers he has soundfiles for several all walnut dulcimers. Keep in mind that Ron's dulcimers have a deep sounbox and have a lot of volume. I had teardrop with a maple soundboard and cherry sides and it was one of the louder dulcimers I have heard

different woods.....especially soundboard woods can have their own tonal qualities.  perhaps the best example are instruments made of

koa.  they have a unique and beautiful sound found in no other instrument.

Thanks Ken. Yes, I called Black Mountain, but they had only McSpaddens and one Folkroots and a few TK's. That shop in Blowing Rock sure has weird hours! they never seem to be open when I try to go. lol. I hear it is for sale too. Anyway, I will keep up the search. When I find it. . . I will know.:)

Nikolas -- I see you're in Winston-Salem NC.  There is a lot of dulcimer activity "inland".  There's a dulcimer shop in Blowing Rock and in Black Mountain; also around Cullowhhee.  Undoubtedly several others I don't know of.  NC is a hotbed of dulcimer activity both on the coast and up in the hills.  Several world-class dulcimer players make NC their home.  Look around, you should find a lot of dulcimers to listen to.

"Clearly I need to buy them all." LOL.  I would love that solution. What fun!

Yes, I did go to a dulcimer show, but wouldn't you know it! LOL Walnut with redwood or spruce topped McSpaddens was all there was - oh and some Gingers with spalted maple tops. I was hoping for some others, but oh well. So, I am going to have to fine a fest where a variety of vendors are slated to be present. A trip to the Folkcraft showroom sure would be fun. That is what I need - a lot of dulcimers to fiddle with (well, in the idiomatic sense of the word). Just off the Blue Ridge Parkway near Maybry Mill is an ukuele dealer. Never saw so many ukes in one place in my life (largest stock in the continental US, I hear). Now there, you could do lots of side by side comparisons and get a sense of what you want. I did not want spruce. lol. So, that sort of environment would be ideal if there was something around like that.

Anyway, I'll keep looking. 

They always say the most important piece of safety equipment in an automobile is the nut behind the wheel.  Well, the key factor that determines a dulcimer's sound is the player.  Heavy strum, light strum, where to strum, type of pick... never mind fingerpicking.  Five players can take the same dulcimer and make it sound entirely different.  That's one reason why we'll never come to a definitive agreement about wood or anything else.

I once had the opportunity to work my way down a vendor table, playing standard McSpadden hourglasses that were identical except for the wood.  I once browsed the Folkcraft showroom, where I sampled various woods and body depths (and other factors, too... the Folkcraft options can get overwhelming) (clearly I need to buy them all).  I borrow and play every dulcimer I can lay my hands on, and over the years I've come to some conclusions about what I like, but someone else could do the same and come to entirely different conclusions.  Different ears, different personal tastes, and different playing techniques.

If at all possible, try to attend a dulcimer festival or go to Fort Wayne and visit the Folkcraft showroom.  Or go to Mountain View and visit McSpadden.  Even if you don't buy a dulcimer there (good luck with that) you'll get the chance to play similar models with different woods, shapes and sizes.  Barring an opportunity to try dulcimers in person, your best bet is to talk to builders, and maybe you can listen to them play some models over the phone.

Incidentally, as a former apartment dweller who likes to stay up late and hates to annoy neighbors, I've tried keeping dulcimers quiet.  A softer pick, a slower strum, resting the dulcimer on a towel or some other thick fabric to keep the back and sides from resonating, using a piece of paper or a corner of an envelope as a pick, giving up on picks entirely and using my fingers, stuffing fabric into the sound holes, leaving the fabric resting on top of the dulcimer, tuning the strings down to low tension, playing near upholstered furniture, rugs and curtains that absorb sound rather than in an empty room... there are many things you can try before giving up on a dulcimer as too loud or too bright. 

The finding a dulcimer whose sound you like is a good idea except for the fact that where I am, it seems the only dulcimers I find in shops are McSpaddens with walnut or redwood tops and the people around all seems to have McSpaddens - walnut with spruce or redwood tops. Other than all I have heard other people with are those by one local builder whose dulcimers all just sound loud, no matter what they're made of. Jammers like them, but there is nothing "sweet" about them to me. The only other people around here seem to have are by yet another local builder, but again his are geared toward being loud, and I don't find his that pleasant sounding. I have only gotten to try one Blue Lion (a Jam model), and it was loud, but mellow for a Jam model, it seemed to me, and a TK O'Brian which probably has the most suitable sound Ive found thus far, though the other features I don't much care for. The first one I ever played was buy a small local maker. It was (and still is) cherry - prettiest slabs of cherry Ive ever seen too - but I think all the wood is too thick because it is definitely not a projector. The strongest sound is the sound of the strings. Not a good thing. If I knew anything about woodworking, I'd love to take it apart and try to re-work it since it the wood looks so nice. lol.  

One thing I know from my attempts with dulcimers, guitars and ukes - Spruce does make a big difference, and I don't like it.

I could live with a McSpadden, I guess, but again, the only ones I have been able to find and try are walnuts with spruce and redwood tops,and there is definitely a difference. Maybe not to other ears, but to mine with my physical issues, yes. Spruce is a no go. Redwood in a pinch. Still the McSpads are not exactly the sound I am looking for (the TK O'brian I have sound better), though I like their feel.  Trade offs. Still, before laying down some money on the dulcimer I want, I would like some choice. The makers around here don't seem to be putting out what I am looking for, and others are far away, so I am trying to get some ideas as to what I might be looking for - not a definitive scientific end-all statement of fact. What has been said thus far has all been very helpful, especially since people are trying to figure out my situation with my ears.

As for this topic coming up every year, so what? TThere are a lot of thoughts on it, and people either want to know or want to opine. Otherwise, the question would be asked and ignored, so no harm done. 

Ditto!

Ken, I couldn't agree more. I built a hickory top and back model  with a 1.75" deep body. Somewhat muted but a remarkably balanced tone. A great dulcimer to sing along with.

No two dulcimers ever sound alike and you don't know how a dulcimer will sound until its tuned up. Half the fun of building dulcimers is the surprise you get when you first play them... Robert...

I think part of the problem is that with mtn dulcimers, there is a HUGE variety in the factors that influence sound: body shape, body volume, wood type, string gauges and types, inner bracing, wood thickness, instrument age, repairs, overall scale length or size, pick variations, noter or finger fretting, action,...the list can go on and on, and every one of these factors can influence the sound/tone/volume to one degree or another.  Side by side tests are rather meaningless unless every single factor but one is absolutely identical.

In comparison- violins, mandolins, guitars etc do have some of the same kinds of variations but overall they tend to be much more uniform and therefore it's a bit easier to make comparisons based on one factor, such as wood type or body volume for example.  Yet we expect to be able to make the same comparisons on wildly varying dulcimers?...we cannot.

There are just way too many variations to do accurate scientific comparisons on dulcimers that are different from each other in multiple ways.  In the end, our best means of selecting a dulcimer for ourselves remains: simply listening to an existing particular dulcimer to see if we LIKE the sound (what a concept), or by talking to your luthier of choice about your goals and preferences so he can try to incorporate some of the factors that would increase the odds of a custom dulcimer sounding to your liking.

All that said, it seems like we have this very same discussion every year.  

There are a minority of people who can tell the difference of sound between different woods used in musical instrument construction and the different shapes used....what percentage I don't know...10%?...20%?...5%?...

Whenever this subject comes up the majority, who can't hear the difference, claim there is 0%...... : )....

Me?....I used to be in the minority when I was younger and willing to put forth the effort to listen and concentrate intensely....now I'm in the majority... : ).....

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Almost everyone can agreed that different woods have definite tonal characteristics. For one example  https://www.taylorguitars.com/blog/guitars-more/tone-talk-rosewood-mahogany-and-maple

Yet when someone in these dulcimer forums asks what kind of wood they could use to get such and such a sound the standard response seems to be "just pick out the wood you find pleasing and the builder can make it sound any way you want." 

Shouldn't a dulcimer be made to focus on the tonal characteristics of the wood with which it is built?

A part of the problem is that is no meaningful definitions of terms like bright, mellow, sharp, sweet, muted and loud.  Nothing that says "this is a 2 on a 5 point scale of mellow".   All we have are subjective impressions. 

We do know that wood type is only one of dozens of factors that affect sound, and a good builder can make a dulcimer sound pretty much anyway you want.  I have personally heard both "sharp" and "mellow" virtually identical dulcimers made by the same maker, from the same wood combinations. 

Volume (length x width x depth) of the dulcimer affects sound, yes, certainly.  Both volume and effect are easily measured.  But shape does not effect the sound.   A year or more back I posted here and on ED,  a double-blind "can you tell which track is played by a teardrop and which by an hourglass" test because people said they could "always" tell what shape was playing a tune.  A number of tunes were recorded on an hourglass, an elliptical and a teardrop.  No one who took the test came close to getting the shape correct, even half the time.  That's a pretty good indication that shape has little or no discernable effect on the sound. .

If you are looking for a specific sound, I would suggest asking what builders make dulcimers that sound like that rather than what woods to use. Although the type of wood clearly has some effect on the sound of a dulcimer, other aspects of instrument design have a far greater influence. A Blue Lion will always sound more mellow than a Pritchard replica no matter what woods are chosen. If you have an all walnut Folkcraft, a Folkcraft with a spruce top, and an all walnut Warren May, the two Folkcrafts would sound closer to one another than the two walnut dulcimers would.

Having said that, in general, instruments that have soft tonewood like spruce or cedar for the top will have a warmer, more mellow sound than instruments that have hardwood such as walnut or cherry for the top.  That is why spruce is traditionally chosen for the tops of guitars and violins, for example.

@steven-berger, @ken-longfield - I am curious about the FSH Hickory since hearing Bing Futch's "4 Dulcimers for sale" youtube video. He started the vid with a hourglass model, and it sounded quite nice from what I could tell. I wish I could try one in person, but can't find any around here. 

@annie-deeley - I have tried a TK O'Brian dulcimer that was said to be one of their better ones, and it had, I believe, a butternut top with walnut body. That one was close to loud, but did exceed my limit of comfort, so I should look into that too. Thanks

Yes, the brightness seems the problem (and volume on top of that, but especially the bright side). Agree with you too about spruce sounding guitar-like. I tried a few ukuleles with spruce tops, and I had the same volume problems, plus they also sounded less ukulele-ish. The uke I settled on was an all Mahogany, so you are right on the tone that works for me. Does anyone make mahogany dulcimers? I haven't really looked into it, but I guess I will.

I have been listening away on the McSpadden site. It is sort of hard to tell if the various wood combos will work with me, but it is interesting how the all walnut and all cherry dulcimers have, to me, the real trad dulcimer sound. The teardrops do sound rounder. . . a bit less shrill (without meaning that negatively, so maybe that is something I need to look into as well. Thank you, John.

Yes, I think you are right, though I cedar is one top I have not tried. What you said about the deep body giving a mellow sound but also more volume sure seems a problem for me! lol. I took your advice and gave Folkcraft a call, but it seems I made it right outside their call hours, which are 12 to 4, Monday ~ Friday, so guess I'll try it on Monday. Thanks.

I have a Folkcraft all-hickory FSH teardrop dulcimer that I play on a table with a small thin plastic placemat (lined side up) under it. Its sound is quite mellow (to my ears) and not very loud when played this way. I have an all-walnut hourglass dulcimer made by Johnny Pledger that I play the same way and its quite a bit louder and not as mellow as the teardrop (it's deeper and wider).

To be honest, I don't know how much the type of wood affects the sound quality of each dulcimer as opposed to the size and shape. 

I think the quality you have trouble with is a bright tone and the top of an instrument really does affect the tone quality. An all-mahogany instrument may have the sound you're looking for, warm, not so bright. Walnut is similar, but a little drier, a little brighter. I personally don't care much for spruce-topped dulcimers. They sound too guitar-like to me, and I already have guitars.

The McSpadden website has pretty good soundclips of their instruments. A half hour there would probably help you narrow down your choices. I also hear a significant tone difference between hourglass and teardrop bodies.

Hi. I have a mellow,sweeeet-soundiing dulcimer. Built by Robert Schuler of butternut, which I understand is related to walnut...

Have you tried an all hickory dulcimer? I think they are one of the most muted dulcimers I've every heard. It is a lovely sound.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

It seems you're looking for exactly the opposite sound compared to what I prefer.  So... given that I greatly prefer a cedar top over an all-walnut dulcimer... I conclude that you would probably prefer the all-walnut!  Vive la difference :-)

Give Folkcraft a call or email them and ask what they recommend.  They are very nice people and they can help you pick out not only the wood, but also the body size, shape and depth.  A deep body gives a mellow sound, but also increases the volume so I'm not sure if that's the way to go. 

LOL. You sound like my teacher. She is into loud, but then she loves to jam, and in a jam, I sure understand the need for loud. My problem is I have hearing loss which makes it hard to understand speech and thus have to wear aids. The side effect of the hearing loss is hypersensitivity to sound (hyperacusis, they call it, if I recall). So when the aids are off, sounds are louder than normal - volume up, recognition down. So I often wear limited sound cutting plugs when playing at home so as to cut down the volume and prevent further damage. In a jam, I am sunk. In order to hear well what I am playing and that I'm playing along, I sure could use a loud dulcimer, but at home...

And so I am looking for a dulcimer that is mellow, smooth, and had voice - but that is not too loud. For the home, I guess. I considered a dulcimette for home practice, since I seemed very comfortable playing around with one a while back, but it is so small and just not quite the same thing. Well, we'll see. 

A dulcimer too loud?  That would have to be an oxymoron.  

hard to imagine a dulcimer that is too loud. 

I personally feel the reality is somewhere in the middle here.   :)

And yet, in every case, a spruce top sounds loud and sharp and hard to my ears. Isn't that a characteristic of wood?  

Type of wood is REALLY far down the list of dozens of things that influence and affect the overall sound.  All Walnut is no more 'fat and mellow' than all Poplar or Wenge and Spruce or any other wood combinations you can think of.  Specific instruments vary in sound.

I never recommend that a person buy a dulcimer by specific wood, except in the sense of beauty.  Virtually identical dulcimers can sound as different as night and day.  Several builders that I know have made identical dulcimers from consectutive slices of wood from a single log -- and gotten completely different sounds.  No two McSpaddens sound exactly alike, regardless of the woods.  Just keep listening until you hear the sound you want.  Then be prepared to buy that sound.

I'm looking for a mellow and "creamy" sound and all walnuts are described as being fat and mellow. Only problem is I can't find any all walnut dulcimer to hear what they sound like (and YouTube vids have too much string sound to tell). I have heard walnut and redwood McSpadden (ok, but a bit loud for me) and walnut with spruce top McSpadden (too sharp, way too loud), but not the the Walnut/Red Cedar Folkcraft combo. So, my question is what is the difference between the all-walnut vs the walnut/red cedar? Is it mainly a volume increase on the red cedar and/or does the red cedar smooth the sound (creamy)?

Hope that made sense.