Forum Activity for @john-p

Hi Robin.

Skip has covered most of what needs looking at, so I thought a 'plan of action' might be helpful.

i) - Make sure that the string is not slipping on the winding post !!!
This will show up if the winding post is turning, but the string is not getting any tighter. Most players have their own patent method of attaching strings to the winding post to prevent this happening. Just poking the string through the hole and giving it a couple of turns may not be enough to stop it pulling back through when it's tightened.

ii) -  You will have seen from (i) whether the winding post is turning or not, if it isn't turning then the slippage is somewhere else.
So, take off the tuner by removing the nut from the inside of the pegbox, the tuner should just pull out.

The tuner is made up of sections, very much like the transmission in a car.
The winding post is the prop shaft that turns the wheels.
The barrel section is a single speed gear box.
The button is the engine.
The fibre washer is the clutch plate. You can only get at this by taking off the button.

iii) - Examine the underside of the barrel, and make sure the small pin is in place. This digs into the outside of the pegbox and stops the barrel rotating.

iv) - Take off the button. Hold the barrel between your fingers and turn the button shaft, does the winding post also turn. If it doesn't then most likely the gears are stripped and it needs replacing.

v) - Examine the fibre washer and look for any parts that have become shiny with wear.

vi) - You might not need to do this, depending on (v), but do it anyway.
Put a piece of fine sandpaper on a flat surface and give both sides of the washer a gentle rub over, just enough to rough up the surface a bit.
Most unlikely, but take a look at the bottom of the button itself for any signs of wear. If you do any sanding on this part be very careful to keep everything flat.

vii) - Put the tuner back on, ensuring that when you tighten up the nut the pin digs into the wood and the barrel is tight and flush.

Good luck.

Here is another one. 

 old thomas photos027.jpg - 112KB

In this digital age I miss the shoe box of old photos. Do you have any to share?  

 old thomas photos030.jpg - 129KB

Yes, David.  I retired from the USCG in 1989.

do you have a picture of the tuner? might be able to help,

Skip, the tuner didn't seem to be slipping in the wood.  It's late so I'll not fiddle with the thing tonight. . . Thanks for your advice!  

I have similar tuners. Can you tell if the tuner is slipping in the wood or the shaft turning in the housing. Put a piece of masking tape on the body and a separate piece on the wood and a pencil reference mark on both, tighten and check the reference mark. If it's the body turning, the nut may be loose or the pin anchor protrusion on the body/wood interface may be damaged [which probably cannot be fixed]. Not sure what can be done if the shaft is slipping in the body or the adjusting screw or the gears inside are stripped except replace the tuner. The only other thing I can think of is to remove the button and see if there is a friction washer that is wear polished. 

When she returns I'll find out exactly. Maybe it can be fixed.

I've tightened the end screw-- the screw on the outside end of the wooden button-- and the tuner still slips/turns free.  If you have experience working with Grover Star planetary tuners, please advise. 

[quote="Dan Goad"]
I've never heard of a complaint about the TK Obrien before, David. 

She just doesnt care for the sound. Not clear enough for her.

Was that you Dan in the CG?

I forgot to mention that I got the hourglass shaped dulcimer from Walter. It does have the geared tuners. The teardrops he makes have the Grover Sta-Tite metal friction tuners. That might make a difference for some as far as ease of re-tuning. 

I own a Cabin Creek, Walter Messick, dulcimer.  I like the sound of it.  I know everyone's likes can be different. I do know that you can call up Walter and he can play his dulcimers over the phone for you. That's what he did for me. I have to say when I received it and played it for the first time I was not disappointed. It sounded better in person than it did over the phone but it did sound good over the phone. 

I've never heard of a complaint about the TK Obrien before, David.  What is your playing partners problem? Maybe we can fix it, we are pretty good about doing that.

My playing partner has a TK Obrien. Shes not happy with the sound. Not trying too be rude.

There are closer to 50 different factors that can effect the tone of an instrument.  None is more important than another, really.  Generally we say listen to a specific instrument, not a general maker's line, as each dulcimer can be different.  Call the builders and ask them to play a specific instrument for you over the phone or Skype.  Buy by ear, not maker's name or shape or wood or VSL or any other things.  Generally speaking a dulcimer with more cubic inches in the body will be deeper sounding than one with less cubic inches. 

I don't have any experience with either of those makes.  My rule of thumb is deep sound box with larger strings produces a lower more 'mornful' tone.  Others may disagree but that is just my own opinion.

Exactly, is there a preference as to the two?Does one provide better? I'm leaning towards  the Walter Messick, great wood.

There are many different factors that make up the sound of a dulcimer.  Tone woods, sound chamber size, VSL (viibrating string length) and string size (gauge) used. 

I am just looking for feedback on the sound of the O'Brien, compared to Walter Messick? I have heard the O'Brien as having a better "sad", "lonely" sound, but was curious as to the Messick, has a beauty right now I am seriously considering. American Chestnut. I really like the deeper, more melancholy, "sad" sound. I know, cheery soul! :-)

My first dulcimer was a kit I bought from a shop that no longer exists in Estes Park Colorado, The Dulcimer Shop, I think it only stayed in business for 2 seasons. I put it together with absolutely no experience whatsoever. It was a little rough around the edges to say the least! :-) But it held a tune, started coming apart at the seams a little over time, and got my love affair with the mountain dulcimer right then. I eventually gifted it forward to anther interested newbie dulcimer player, but have no idea where it ended up. 

 It was the only kit I ever built, but it did teach me enough aouyt them to be able to do some minor repairs in the future.

My very first dulcimer I purchased is a Cabin Creek made by Walter Messick. I was looking for something that I could make music with, something that was easy to learn to play a song. I did a lot of research and saw recommendations about dulcimers. I remember hearing dulcimer music at Tamarack in WV. I saw some videos on Youtube and was convinced that was the instrument for me. I decided to look for builders in Virginia. I'm not sure how I came across Walter's web site but that's where I landed. I called him up and he played a few over the phone for me. I wanted to order one I saw on his web site. He asked me to wait because he was in the process of making one that had butterflies for sound holes. He said if I didn't like it I could get the other. Well, when it arrived I was amazed at the craftmanship and how beautiful it really was..... a lot better in real life than pictures on a web site. I got the pick and started playing a tune. I was thrilled to be able to play a song right out of of the box so to speak and not having any music training I felt like I accomplished something wonderful. I still own that dulcimer and I wouldn't part with it for anything.  

Welcome fellow Tar Heeler. Not sure where on the OBX you are, but there is a group listed that meets in Morehead City that can probably help you out. Contact information can be found at www.everythingdulcimer.com under the Clubs tab.

Also, there is the  North Carolinians Plus group, here on FOTMD you can join, if you haven't already.

Good luck, enjoy your dulcimer journey.  

I've had some decent success on Ebay, but as stated, be wary. It helps to know what you're looking for and do specific searches. What are you looking for in a used dulcimer? I have several out of many from my personal collection that I am getting ready to sell.

 I'll have a Blue Lion 4 string Model IC, cherry top back and sides, a McSpadden 4 string hourglass, Sitka top, sycamore, (I think) back and sides, flat headstock, and most likely a late 1970's John Maxwell 5 string with wood case also. That one is a bit more "rustic" with wood "butter paddles", not geared tuners. I'm needing to thin the herd a bit, have 20 right now and just simply running out of room! :-)

I made my first one in about 1967 out of a sheet of unfinished mahogany paneling I bought for $3.00 and scrap 2x4s from under my dad's work bench. I got some fret wire and guitar tuners from a local music store. It was awful. The peghead canted off to the right about fifteen degrees. It was meant to be a symmetrical teardrop, but ended up rather "free-form." I don't remember if I used my banjo or guitar as a model for the fret placement, or if I fretted it by ear. I used something in a spray can to finish it. 

It was a pretty crude affair and the sound wasn't very good, either. I played it a bit and passed it around to others who wanted to try dulcimer. I don't know what ever became of it and I'm no longer in contact with any of the people I ran with then. But I do know a half-dozen people or more learned the rudiments of the instrument on the thing. At least one of them got pretty serious about dulcimer, and early on had a chromatic instrument made. I built a few more over the years, along with some other instruments, but never became much of a luthier.

There is no shortage of "used" dulcimers, but as Robert sez, be wary of Ebay specials.  You can find quality "previously loved" dulcimers here quite often, and also in the Marketplace at www.EverythingDulcimer.com

You'll find that there is no dramatic drop in price between new and used dulcimers. 

Welcome...  There is no shortage of cheap dulcimers on E bay. Although I won't vouch for their quality or playability its a place to start. People don't give up good dulcimers very often. There is a classified ad page on this site. And a handful of very good dulcimer builders who can help you out... Robert.

BTW.. Dulcimer players are the most open and friendly people I've ever met in the music world. You came to the right place...

Jan - it was so wonderful to meet you at Warren A May's in Berea last week! Thanks for your lovely playing and for the fellowship over lunch. I hope to get to KMW next year!

Jill

Thanks Jan!

I think it's GREAT!  I'd pay for one!

My dulcimers weren't working without altering the top "neck support", even fully extended. So, that's why my husband worked on that part for me. As far as the cradle part, I wanted to do a support that didn't have any stretch. Plus, I don't mind sewing projects. Thanks for the compliment on my project. I wanted a stand that would look nice and work with all my dulcimers. I have had people ask if it was bought that way (specifically for dulcimers). So, it must appear to be nicely converted, to some degree.

Thanks for the post. I had forgotten that the song is a slow one. Maybe my favorite version (this week) is the one by Martin Simpson.

Good advice. I tell all of my students to "learn slow to play fast".

Helen--what a clever idea!  I read what you wrote to my husband and he added, "And the wool is probably good for the wood", since he knows you have to be careful about what is touching the dulcimer when you are storing it or displaying it.

Thanks for the thoughts, Wout.  There was a jug bass there, but the guy who brought it is a beginner musician and isn't very good.   He doesn't really understand the role of a bass and was just kind of mimicking the melody line.

When I played bass I did a version of what you describe, just moving from the tonic to the third, the fifth, and then back to the tonic, for example. But that was getting tedious, I think.  I was able to throw in some bass runs when the chords were changing, but I got a little stuck on those tunes that sit on the same chord for a while.

By the way, I was using the tapewound strings you recommended. I love the tone.

I always thought the jug has to play the bass, by definition

In most music groups the bass tells the other musicians what the tempo is and 'where are we in the song'. Riffs and breaks are used to communicate. If the chord is in 'hold', mostly a kind of improvisation mode, play just the notes of the chord or partial, like tonica-third-fifth-third-etc or tonica-fifth-octave-fifth. Create a nice rhythm with these tones.

In your old avatar you hold a guitar, so record a chord progression and try to create bass lines for yourself. You will find a repertoir for yourself. There will be a moment a descending bass line in triplets will blow yourslf and the others away  

I joined a jug band group last night and played this acoustic bass for about 1/3 of the tunes. It was fun, but I still have a ways to go.  I just don't have enough ideas of bass riffs to play when the melody sits on one chord for a while.

Just updated the pdf of the tab.  Thank you John P for pointing out the error!

Bob, I watched that whole thing and still don't quite understand how it works. It sounds pretty cool, though, like magical bells.

 Great!  Now I have got Stephen Seifert and Dusty running around in my head!  I think I'm going to give up dulcimer and switch to glass armonica. 

I don't have an answer to this question, not because I nail every tune I attempt, but just the opposite. I try to play a lot of tunes on the dulcimer, and most don't work out. Some I have never gotten (at least not yet) and others were put on the shelf for a while only to be resurrected successfully later on. 

There was one tune that I worked on really hard and could not get it at all.  I got frustrated and just threw the tablature off my desk.  But about a year later I was cleaning up and found that tab behind a bookcase.  I sat down and tried to play it, and lo and behold I was able to do it!  What had seemed impossible was now easily approachable.  The lesson for me was to never give up, but also not to get frustrated. If something is not working, put it away for a while and come back to it later on.

I also want to comment on Bob's remarks at the beginning of this conversation. I first discovered the mountain dulcimer from Stephen Seifert's video of Whiskey Before Breakfast, which had long been one of my favorite fiddle tunes.   I was entranced by Stephen's soft but quick fingering and the beautiful woody sound of the dulcimer.  Of course, I wanted to play that song and worked on it for a while.  Eventually I posted a version on Stephen's Dulcimer School, expecting to get some tips from him.  And he did offer some helpful comments. But others commented at how good it was, a couple suggesting it was ready for public performance.  That experience taught me not to measure my playing by the abilities of someone else, but only by my own desire to present my own musical ideas.  Nowadays, I only play the song a little better than I did three years ago when I posted this video , but I don't let the fact that Stephen blows me away to stop me from offering my own version of the tune.  

There are a lot of ways of being musically expressive, and even if you can't play as fast as someone else or with as many notes as someone else doesn't mean you can't find a way to say something with a song.  One cool lick might say more than a whole verse of virtuoso improvisation.  I have learned to play within my limits and to still find ways of inserting my own musical sensibilities into the tunes I play. As I've said elsewhere, if you start with a pretty tune and play it on a beautiful instrument, the real trick is to stay out of the way and not mess things up.  If I tried to play as fast as Stephen Seifert, I would mess things up for sure.