Forum Activity for @5kwkdw3

That's a very good idea and I think I'll stick with that one.  I remember early on that just the difference in DAd and DAA was enough for that one string change as to not really be good for either.  If the string was bought as appropriate for the lower A, then it very nearly came to breaking and poking my eye out in the process (I always flinch when I hear a string about to break and yes "you can tell" after you break enough of them).  Or if you start the other way and get a string appropriate for the higher d, then when detuned to the lower A, the string is very sloppy and the sound not the best in the world up to and including basically unplayable.  One last attempt, because by golly the darn books say you can swap tunings all over the place and I bought a string more appropriate for a middle of the range note of B and or C territory.  Now I asked for assistance back then and found that for the string length I was utilizing and the notes desired, the B or the C pitch ended up being the same gauge so I was indeed in the middle.  I first tuned to the lower A and gave that a try.  Still way to loose and sloppy.  Sounded more like a rubber band and cigar box type of thing.  Then I cranked it up to the higher d and found that I was not flinching as much, but the string was different in feel and hard to finger the higher fretted notes because of the increased tension.  Yep that's another thing to consider.  The tighter the string tension, the thicker the calluses you'll end up with if you can even fret the higher notes.  So the string tuning change was out the window as far as I was concerned and I began thinking of another answer to the problem of playing in two different modes without the hassle of tuning up to or down to the desired pitches.

Now folks with a current outbreak of DAD will appreciate this (there are equivilant diseases in the gun shop and are contagious let me tell you)  That is, buy one dulcimer for each and every mode you'll ever think you might play in.  If you feel that getting different dulcimers a disservice to your learning to play, then buy similar models of dulcimer, but get different looking woods to shake things up a bit.  Mama's or spouses if the other way around don't apparently like this disease at all.  Nonetheless I had what I needed to explore the "other modes" and found that putting all of my effort into one mode had a direct result in producing a better player in that given mode.  The more I spread myself around the less I actually learned.  OK at many but good on none it seemed to be.  So now with over 46 years of musical experience from that very first day on the clarinet to now and many many instruments inbetween I can safely say that I want to concentrate my efforts solely on DAd (actually GDg, but still Mixalydian and the 158 ratios) and just watch my skills increase.  I found the very same thing to be true when my brother and I were in the middle of our "Instrument Wars".  Once I got hooked on the Mandolin and it's family, I stuck with instruments that shared the same "fifths" relationship between strings.  My brother on the other hand chose to not only go beyond the imediate family of instruments, he went out of the box so to speak bringing in the like of bag pipes, bassoon, melophone, accordion, tenor sax, guitar, and the like with not one instrument having any such similarity between themselves.  Needles to say he had a massive slow down and finally had to deep six some of the instruments and just concentrate on a few that he had some aparent skills with.  Yep you change the dulcimer mode if even only the one melody string and you've changed the overall makeup of the instrument and therefore made another instrument that you have to teach yourself how to play.  The exception to this is if any or all strings tunings are changed yet the player is a noter drone player or owns a Tennesee Music Box with traditional fence staples just under the melody string(s).  Then you are only required to play that one string and the others just come along for the ride so it doesn't really matter (other than sound) what they are tuned to or the relationship between them and the melody string   Kevin.

Mike Anderson tried to teach me to play the bones once--whew!  Maybe if I'd had a set of my own, I would have practiced and caught on eventually, but at that time (with Mike) I just wasn't getting it!

I liked that sculpture, too, Wout!

(Tuning a Dulcimer using a Keyboard )

wow, this is so simple, so great to see it like this. I am a visual person, so I will be keeping the tabs. No, I don't paint by-numbers but I do paint. Enclosed is a quick small drawing of a heron fishing, if only I could jazz up my playing lke I can throw things into a piece of art.

Thanks for the site for this illustration.

 Untitled-1.jpg - 187KB

I read walnut bones have a mellow sound. So that's the wood I picked. We'll see. 

Looked the video twice: 1e information, 2 film technique. Love the sculpture in the background: it visualise the sound of the bones :-)

I don't think there was much editing in the film, because there are view point changes without any disrubtion of the spoken word, so at least 4 camera's were used: 1 fixed creating the overview and 3 hand held for each musician. That's a lot in a small room, where also the mic's and recording gear had to be in. What also surprises me is the sound of stamping feet on the wooden floor, which is completely gone when playing the song, although Hubby and Dom are moving as before... Just an observation, which I always do watching information video's on the internet: what's manupulated and what isn't.

Anyway, it is all about the bones, of course.

BTW Strumelia, can you hear the drop in the volume of the voices when the bones are playing? And Rhiannon admits their volume :-)

And there is indeed a lot of edited speech, although it is rather good work.

This page maps dulcimer tunings to the piano keyboard: http://www.get-tuned.com/dulcimer.php

We really are making this too complicated.  Tune the bass string to a note that sounds good.  This note is the key you will be playing in.  Then fret the bass string at the 4th fret and tune the other strings to that note (which is a 5th interval higher than the bass string).  That is how people tuned dulcimers for a hundred years. 

Here I am, someone who mostly plays chord/melody in DAdd, telling people to use Balis Ritchie's "bim-bim-BOM" tuning!  Honestly, these forums are wonderful but we send beginners on wild goose chases.  Tune DAA, put away the tab and chord charts, play a scale on the melody string starting on the 3rd fret, and listen to what happens.  Until you get to know the instrument and how it works, jumping around to new tunings and following paint-by-numbers tabs is just wasting your time.

One pair to start. I don't want to get two pairs the same, and since I won't be able to play with both hands in the beginning, I thought I'd wait to decide what to get for my second pair. But I would really love to eventually play with both hands. 

There may be a song about a banjo playing repo man... 

It is interesting the many differences that can be achieved by eaçh person.

Marg, I should clarify this...  I don't have all strings just tuned an octave higher- they'd break!   What I do is- I've removed my heavier Bass and Middle strings and exchanged them for what you might think of as all thin melody strings.  Those strings are then tuned in generally the same octave as my melody string.  In effect there is no more low octave bass string. 
So, if I wanted to play in the key of D in ionian... YOU would tune DAA, and I would tune dAA.  Then when I fretted the tonic note on my melody string it would sound like dAd...with the middle string A being the lowest note of those three sounding notes.   OR, I might tune it ddA, so that when I fret the third fret tonic note, the 3 strings would be playing ddd.  I explain a bit more about this here: http://dulcimer-noter-drone.blogspot.com/2009/06/why-i-dont-use-bass-and-middle-strings.html

It's all a matter of personal preference of course.   Wonderful that we can all get so many different results and effects! 

This keeps coming up every year or so.  Ken's article is great, but his numeric naming of the octaves is incorrect, by today's generally accepted standards of where 'middle C' is.  People keep pointing this out, and it really should be corrected.

If tuned DAd, the mountain dulcimer is tuned (low to high):  D3, A3, d4   The high melody string D4 is the note right above Middle C on the piano.  The Bass string D is the D note BELOW Middle C.

Here are some more online tuning aids:

http://dulcimer-noter-drone.blogspot.com/2010/12/what-notes-do-i-tune-my-strings-to.html

Speaking of tunings, this morning while playing swallow tail jig.  I. named a new tuning. I call it Abe Lincoln tuning. Actually it's E Dorian... strings are A B E... Get it... . After all we have Calico, Sawmill, Cumberland Gap tuning... Robert.

I'm excited for you Sheryl!   Did you get one pair or two?

I found it almost impossible to practice to varying music and tempos at first, but I seem to be a bit more able to at least try varying tempos now.  I agree, it's great advice to just practice with all kinds of music, whether you're good at it or not doesn't matter...I'm sure it really helps build our skills.   :)

I have a beautiful repro minstrel banjo made by the same builder, James Hartel, that made the one Rhiannon is showing there.  Mine is a different model type though.  Rhiannon has such a graceful way about her hands when she plays banjo and other instruments...it's a real individual thing. 
Sheryl- I had to chuckle when you wrote repo banjo (as in repossessed) instead of repro (as in reproduction)  ;)  Jim Hartel told me he custom made her banjo for her, so we'll assume it was not repossessed.  Mine however might have been, I can't be sure!  

Great video Lisa, thanks for sharing. Very interesting repo banjo. I love how Dom points out that you can play along to any music on the radio. I already do that with my empty hand, while driving. My bones should arrive tomorrow. Can't wait!

I saw that Strumelia has her dulcimer tune an octave highter than mine also but she says she likes hers high and we would probably be an octave lower. Could it be if you play with a noter you are tune highter than if like me i cord or finger dance? Or is it I just like the sound of the lower octave?

ken,

In your article:  I Just Got A Dulcimer, Now What?   (Under 'Geting In Tune' - 'Which D is D') - The D which we use as the basis of all the D tunings, is D4 – one whole note above “middle C”. The A we use is A4 and the d we use is d5 )

Seems in DAd, my base D is tuned to the D below 'middle C'. The melody string is tuned one note above 'middle C'. I have not checked the dulcimer tuned DAA but would image it is also an octave lower than your tunings.

     I go to a dulcimer practice group tomorrow and will have them check my tunings. Could be set up this way since I do like a more mellow sound not a bright sound and to tune the base string  to a D, 1 note above 'middle C' sounds way to high to me. 

Or am I reading this wrong?

I just found this nice video with some good bones history:

When I started playing MD back in the last century, I had several books like that.  Those books WERE written specifically for the purpose of introducing beginners to the various modal tunings.  Expectations and playing styles have changed a lot over the last 30 years, but a lot of the same books are still on the market. 

I never saw a book of all-DAd tab until post-2000.  And when I saw it, I wondered "why in the world would anybody pay money for that?"  It takes all kinds.  I agree with you about ED and other online resources: we're lucky to live in a time when lots of materials are available on the internet and we are all free to learn what we want.

As for the main topic of this thread:  It's worth noting that sometimes you retune because you want a different mode (DAd vs DAc) and sometimes you retune for a different key (DAd vs CGc) and still other times you retune for a special effect (DAd vs Ddd). Or maybe you don't retune at all.  There's nothing wrong with picking one tuning and sticking with it.  No worries. 

Thanks Jim. I appreciate you comment.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Yes, just changing 1 string Isn't bad- I have no trouble going from DAD or DAA  but I ran into problems on where to start for the DDDG. I have it where it sounds good but can't say for sure it's right, I have the G on the bass. I will check out the videos when I get home - stuck  now at the dealership. 

Here is a video I made demonstrating how I change back and forth between the four most common dulcimer modes (mixolydian, aeolian, ionian, and dorian) in the key of D, by changing the tuning on just the melody string. Sometimes seeing it done feels less complicaed than describing it.

Here's my blog post of it:

Retuning between the modes

and the video itself (r.i.p my kitty Pearl):

Marg; 

Here's a "relative tuning" discussion I got from Jerry Rockwell, years ago, and have added to.  It's from my article I Just Got A Dulcimer, Now What?, and tells you how to change from one tuning to another, among the four most common Modal tunings.  All you do is change one string...

Ionian Mode is called the "natural major" mode. (called DAA if the Keynote is D).  Most traditional American songs you can sing or hum are 'natural major' tunes.

1. Tune the bass string of the dulcimer to D or a note that sounds good with your voice… not to low or too high.
2. Press the bass string just to the left of the 4th fret and pluck the string. Tune the middle string so it exactly matches this note.
3. Tune the melody string(s) to the same note as the un-fretted (open) middle string.

Aeolian  is the "natural minor" mode.  (called DAC if the Keynote is D).  Many traditional Scottish and Irish tunes sound
good in this 'weeping and wailing' mode. Wayfaring Stranger, Good King Wenceslas, and ShadyGrove/Mattie Groves are well known Aeolian songs.

Steps 1 and 2 are the same as for Ionian.
Step 3. Press the bass string at the 6th fret and pluck it. Tune the melody string(s) to this note.

Mixolydian (called DAd if the Keynote is D).  Mixo mode is only "slightly minor", and is used extensively for neo-celtic music, Irish fiddle tunes, and the masterpieces of Turlough O'Carolan.

Steps 1 and 2 are the same as for Ionian.
Step 3. Press the bass string at the 7th fret and pluck it. The sound is an octave higher than the unfretted bass string. Tune the melody string(s) to this note.

Dorian ( called DAG if the Keynote is D)  Dorian mode is not so minor sounding as Aeolian Mode, but more so than Mixolydian. Barbara Allen,
Scarborough Fair, and Greensleeves are well known Dorian tunes.

Steps 1 and 2 are the same as for Ionian.
Step 3. Press the bass string at the 3rd fret and pluck this note. Tune the melody string to this note.

The above is why I so appreciate tab found on ED and the like: Earlier on I bought a few books and even bought a couple based solely upon a particular song or two that the book contained.  Only later to find out that instead of the much more common DAdd (double dd for Marg), they were in some backwoods passed down for generations family mode and tuning.  That did me absolutely no good whatsoever.  There for awhile I had some success with a computer program called Finale of which I had for other music interests.  When a group was playing at the church I'd arrange the hymn to the instruments that were available.  This was all in standard music notation as that's what most if not all played in for their respective instruments.  The dulcimer was of course the odd bird of the bunch (I couldn't even play standard notation on the dulcimer and had to have tab).  After I'd arrange the score I'd separate the parts and print them out and when I had my part indicidualized I'd convert it to tab. (on that version of Finale it was a simple "Select All" and then click the "Convert to Tab" button.  Boy was I spoiled for awhile.

Another thing I'd often notice was that if a fellow hated fretting on the first or second fret all the time (in say DAdd "double dd for Marg") rather than use a capo, they'd just tighten up the strings a bit and call it the "Johnson Ol Tyme Mode" and be done with it.  I swear I didn't think that there were that many modes for the dulcimer at all?  Quite often a book will have you tighten or loosen a string (or all the strings) a number of pitches (just asking for a broken string) and back again just to play yet another song.  One book I had there were only two songs that were in the same mode.  Every song had it's own unique mode to play it in.  Now maybe that book was an introduction to those varioous modes, but as a book, it stunk big time.  That's what I don't understand.  If you look at the available instruments and how they are strung as sold and then the music books that follow, a majority are in teh DAdd.  So why is there an insistance on producing all of the other tab that is more problematic than helpful to the rest of the folks?   DAaa is the very next most popular and found tuning and I've seen a number of books mainly written in that mode, but you can't single out just one mode it seems.  Every book I've bought even a Mel Bay book on the DAdd tuning had a load of other tunings in it.  That made no sense at all.  It would be like buying an english book that was written in spanish?  Go figure?  Kevin.

    Yes, it's exciting to explore with the idea it will help you find the path that's right for you at that point in time. And you are right all the modes, tunes and keys were something I knew nothing about - but so ready to jump right in and learn. 

   I had already practiced a few DGD songs with the group I'm with and was excited to find out I could play the DAA tabs - melody line in this tuning. So, I tuned my student dulcimer to DGD and tried some out but was not excited with the tone.

    Looking through a dulcimer handbood, that was beyond me half a year ago - I found several songs in the different tunings. I went ahead and retuned to DDDG. Ha, it took me about 3 tries to get it right, first I had it all upside down with the G on the melody string. Than the G on the base was not the right G. finnally I got it and played 'Shenandoah' and it really sounded nice. I then played it on my dulcimer tuned DAdd and realized the melody line was the same tab only slight difference, since it was written by someone else. Some of the cords in DDDG are not hard and the ones that are, I just use my thumb like a noter on those and would slide back and forth between the notes. I found this very exciting, where I didn't care for DGD I thought DDDG was very nice.

    AS I begin to explore this part of learning more of what the dulcimer and I can do - since I am at a 4 not a 10 - as strumelia mention in her post; I know I can't do them all at once but I have a start. The biggest problem I see now more than having tabs is not knowing how to tune to the tunnings. Which strings would be below or above middle C. But I feel, just like tonight when the time is right, I will get it and be excited.

    It is an exciting journey, I think that is my path right now. Breathing life into my soul and seeing where the dulcimer takes me. 

I really do appreciate all of your answers. Life has been ridiculously busy lately, and since I am utterly new to playing an instrument and getting obsessed, I am finding I have many, many questions. when I read reviews of pics or mics or other things, often times, the reviewer is not a dulcimer player. I highly value the opinion of the experienced. Thank you again. 

Sometimes when I'm learning something new that involves a lot of information and variations, it begins to feel too overwhelming yet I naturally want to understand it all right away, so I can make decisions about what path I want to follow or explore.  When I get that feeling of being overwhelmed by my lack of knowledge I tend to ask questions that get me answers I don't yet understand anyway.  That's because I want to know about points 9, 10, and 11 without really understanding points 3, 4 and 5 yet.   For myself, I do best when I then focus on the basics before diving into trying to understand lots of finer points all at once.  I find that my knowledge tends to build on itself like a tower of blocks, and it sticks in my head better that way too.  :)

Marg, you're idea is exactly what I use to do.  In printing out available DAd tab off of ED, I had a really tought heavy duty binder (D ring about 2" thick) and a three hole punch.  Alphabetized, punched, and filed for later use.  After awhile I got quite the collection of tab in my very own tab book.  Kevin.

Well, ken I'm good to go than since the red stain dulcimer is set up for DAA. Playing by the clover soundhold really makes some interestings tones. 

Marge -- probably 85% of the songs you'll want to learn to play are playable in Ionian Mode -- DAA -- or Bagpipe Ddd.  A few songs require either a 6+ fret or Mixolydian tuning.  There are some special songs that simply can't be played 'properly' in anything except Dorian or Aeolian Mode.  As you explore the music you want to play, you'll find those special songs, and then the tunings that will make them "just right". 

robert,

Your baritones are very handsome, very nice in-deed. 

    Thank you ken, I am amazed when someone can play a song much less a couple hundred. I am what you would call a 'latecomer' as in starting to learn the dulcimer or even music, late in life. I guess when I see or hear something new, (which is much) - I am like a kid in the candy store - wanting more than I could possibly manage at that time.

    I wouldn't want you to go out of your way on  'city of new orleans'. When I saw it listed I went to it right away, new orleans was home - but after katrina  'home' was lost and everything that goes with that concept. Maybe one day, I could just hear you play it. 

    I appreciate your patience with my questions or the asking on some problem (I love the help I received on the red stain dulcimer and felt I learn so much working on it with all the help). The more I learn, the better my question will become hopefully and I wont throw out as many - (Again, I wouldn't want to 'over step' - even without knowing) 

    This discussion was such an eye openner on the different tunings I guess I was just looking for the 'Cliff Notes' to try and catch up on what tuning I would like when I didn't even know there were so many still to try. I sometimes can't believe even what I have been able to do so far and look forwartd to this dulcimer journey i'm on and where it is taking me. 

    Thank you for your kindness and now - back to the tunings and what the members like.                                                           

Kevin I'm glad you mentioned baritones. Because in a way, baritone is a kind of tuning in itself. Although I don't play is as much, my 30" scale baritone is just the thing when you need that boomchucka sound... Here is a picture of my baritone along side my regular work a day dulcimer. And an uncompleted hourglass baritone. Tuned in A... Robert...

 IMG_20150815_213335_745.jpg - 91KB

I have one by Robert Schuler and Kevin Messanger and they are the best workmanship and sound, I am very happy with them both. You can talk with either fellow right on this site and they will treat you right.

No -- you're not "over stepping".  You don't know if you don't ask.  Never be afraid to ask.  There are no dumb or silly questions, just ones you don't get answers to. 

Playing the dulcimer can be as simple or complex as you want to make it.  There's a world of difference in playing songs or tunes in traditional Noter & Drone or Fingerdance style compared to modern Chord-Melody style.  Not everything can be played in DAA, DAd, or Ddd in either style.  Some songs simply require notes or chords you can't find on the fretboard in those tunings. 

I do think folks are more likely to repond to a single tune request rather than a blanket request for tab.  

I will gladly send you City of New Orleans that I've worked out in DAC, but I'll actually have to sit down and write it out.  I don't personally collect tab, as once I've learned a song and written it down in the process of working out the tune,  it's added to the couple hundred songs in my "internal software" (brain) and I can play on demand.  So the old envelope or napkin that I recorded the tab on gets discarded. 

Marg, we all have something to learn, no matter where we are on this journey. 

Sorry if you felt in my asking about tabs  (rather than a shotgun request) I was over stepping.

    I didn't even know they had all these modes or tunnings or keys to play in, till I started reading this discussion. As I said, 'Learning as I go'

One step at a time - no worries, I will print out the ones I fine and start a collection and begin to try them out.

Jan, I know the link and it costed my a night sleep already!

Rob, as someone who usually prefers oldtime to jazzier or bluesier stuff, I really wondered whether I would like Dom's new trio, considering it had a 'real' drummer with a full drum set, and a bass fiddle player...sounded like a jazz trio to me.  But they actually played a wide variety of stuff including lots of 1920s-50s depression era songs I liked.  Even their modern stuff they did with lots home grown flair.  It was good!  Dom has tons of energy- the concert was 90 minutes with no break, and with much high energy dance, bones, harmonica, guitar, and some incredible raggy style plectrum banjo playing at warp speed by Dom that was amazing.  He really gives his all, and his two partners add to the fun.  They are all absolute sweethearts.  Rob I know they would enjoy playing with you, you are the real deal.      Their fiddle and bass player Brian found out I play limberjack and told me he always wanted to learn it but didnt know how to get one or get started.  I gave him a simple limberjack i had that was kind of an 'extra' I had, and I showed him the basics...he was so excited!   You can see him happily holding it in the photo I posted.  I bet he would have loved a little dulcimer lesson from you as well.   They are all three just like that- so open and excited about music and people.

Jan- that's a great link to some great music!   I bet you do still have some hidden 'special powers' though...one day you'll swoop into action and we'll all be saved and amazed! 

Nothing pitiful about your playing at all, Rob!  I think I saw the Chocolate Drops when they were on Woodsongs Old Time Radio Hour. (No, I don't have special "powers" to "see" radio.....the shows are taped in a theater in my hometown of Lexington, KY, and the tapings are then shown on TV.  The website also has an archive of all its shows....you can watch Sarah Morgan performing on the same show as the Two Cellos(Show #710, watch Jean Ritchie at a taping, as well as many other greats in the music world...many that are no longer with us.)  http://www.woodsongs.com/show-archives/

Welcome Ron!  The Tamarind noters are all sold, but I'll be having some other hard exotic wood noters available late next week.  I just ordered a mixed bag of raw stock including Bloodwood, Purple Heart, Padauk, Wenge, and Yellowheart, and it should be here by the 19th.