Forum Activity for @strumelia

The first American-made instruments that were called 'banjos/banzas/banjars' were developed from traditional African instruments such as the akonting. The first official "banjos" had no frets. Then when banjo playing became popular through minstrelsy, banjos began to be mass produced, and with frets. They were called "fretted banjos".
Over time, fretted banjos became the norm and came to be called simply "banjos", while the unfretted ones became known as "fretless banjos" instead of just banjos.
It shows how common names can change according to what variations become more popular over time.

I understand what you are saying Ken, but my problem with the name is that both the hammered dulcimer and the lap dulcimers have their name because of their sound and not their respective structures.  I remember in the 60’s and 70’s discussions particularly from the hammered side was that, “we were first called the dulcimer and didn’t have to use the word hammered in front of it.” They went on to argue that the Appalachian dulcimer should be called something else.  The word dulcimer was a free and fluid word that described the sound of something and not its form. That led a Welshman to call a Pennsylvania fretted zitter (they didn’t call them Scheitholts) a Dulcimar, in 1757 and write it down as part of an inventory for a will. I doubt if the early players of the hammered or the Appalachian were thinking of build when they used the word, but instead added the words hammered, Appalachian or even mountain as descriptors.  I see stick dulcimers and the like as following that tradition.  Anyways, at this late date it is sort of hard to rename whatever these things are as they are already known by those names.

I know this is an old thread, and the disagreements have settled down, and trouble maker that I am (please forgive me), I'm going to stir the pot.

Ken Hulme is right about the definition of the dulcimer. The word has to mean something. If it doesn't, then it means nothing.

It is true that dulcimers have evolved over the last couple of centuries, but at some point what is being crafted would have to be called something different. We do this with other instruments: violins are not viols, citterns are not guitars, etc. And I would argue (not disparagingly) that stick dulcimers, chromatic dulcimers, dulcimers with an independent bridge and discontinuous fret board (al la guitar) stretch the definition of "dulcimer" beyond the breaking point. Again I am not disparaging these instruments. I am just saying we have to speak of them with modifiers such as "stick", "chromatic" etc. because they deviate from the norm, and that norm is the kind of instrument Ken is describing: a real dulcimer.

I hate to sound so un-inclusive, and I don't mean to imply that such instruments are inferior (I actually own a couple of the "non dulcimers" I described above), or that there aren't sufficient similarities to true dulcimers with the deviation instruments that they shouldn't be discussed here. I am saying that words have to mean something (dulcimer included) or they are useless. If a luthier or craftsman wishes to innovate beyond the basic and general definition, go for it, but what comes from that may not still be a dulcimer. And that is okay.

Then you'll need a nice case. Then you'll need something not so fancy for outside jams, or travel. Then there will be that one that just sounds so pretty...

Yup....all about the priorities....

Sounds reasonable to me too.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

$500 seems reasonable for a Mize.  Bob was a master craftsman of dulcimers, so if it's in great shape, then that seems like a fair price to me.

Great reminder, Ken. Thanks!
It's fun to occasionally catch a member in the chat room on FOTMD, and get to know them a little, or to just leave a message there for other members.

Others may chime in here with their own thoughts on this. But in my own opinion, if the dulcimer is in great shape (no cracks, scratches, pegs in good condition, etc) then i think $500 is a reasonable price for a Mize. It might even be a little low, if anything. Chestnut and walnut sound lovely as well.
Just because a price is above what we can pay, does that mean it's unreasonable?
Sometimes when i really want something wonderful that is a little above 'my budget', I will rebalance my budget to fix its priorities, because they are obviously faulty.

First post. A guy in town has a Mize dulcimer for sale. He wants $500, way beyond my budget, but it’s nice. He says it’s No. 857 is an early one from the ‘70’s. Chestnut and walnut. What is a reasonable price. I’ll have other

Well, this is really for everyone. There is a Chat feature on FOTMD and I'm not sure many people know about it. At one time we had a rather active group or folks who showed up in the chat from time to time to visit with one another. You can find it in the bottom right hand corner. It is a blue ballon with three red dots on it in a white square. If you click on this it opens the chat window. Sometimes folks log in early in the morning before work which is what I did for a long time. Since I've been retired I don't get up that early anymore. I usually check to see if anyone else is in the chat window when I check in to FOTMD. If you see me there, or anyone else for that matter, stop in and say Hello.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

I have, currently - in - my - lap, a Heinrich dulcimer numbered 144. This is his very first baritone, and she told me her name is Aster. I am currently transcribing a heavy metal song called "Wizard" by Castle Rat, and Aster is light and well appointed, and interesting... I am very happy with Gerry's craftsmanship and customer service. Please give him a look. I highly recommend.

https://heinrichdulcimers.com/about-the-artist/

Thank you both!

Welcome back!

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

What Dusty said. That' what I do.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Unless you are going to play with a noter, definitely remove the outer string so that the remaining three would be equidistant.  That extra space on the fretboard is nothing to be feared and would actually make bending the string a bit easier.

If you play with a noter, you might want to remove the inner string so that the melody string is separated a bit more from the drones.

So, I'm back, as I forewarned you all. I got my walnut TK O'Brien yesterday and really like it... definitely sounds different from my traditional 1985 David Mahoney I'm keeping in DAA and free of 1/2 frets. I've decided I really like the DAD tuning as well, and may get more into chords and what not than I had previously anticipated. Anyway, the title of this post sounds pretty simple and self-explanatory and it ought to be obvious to anyone who can use a yardstick. But, it ain't clear to me. Please see the pic. I don't know which melody string to remove to make 3 equidistant. It appears that if I remove the outer melody string then the remaining three will pretty much be equidistant. But... that'll leave that side of the fretboard with a wider space than what is currently seen on the other side of the fretboard with that first drone string. So, if I do remove that outer melody string, and with that consequent wider space between that edge of the fretboard and the remaining melody string, is that gonna pose any sort of problem or future problem... problems in learning or transitioning to another MD? Options? Ideas? Thoughts? Thanks in advance!

 IMG_6522.jpeg - 142KB

Welcome back, with encouragement to get back to the dulcimer.  

Welcome back!  

Haven't posted much since 2018 when I was first here. I did move, but to Kansas, not Tennessee. I haven't been playing at all but since I did finally retire, I decided it was time to try again. Glad to see this group is still active. 

Thank you, gentlemen. I appreciate your input.

Those prices seem fair.  McSpadden does excellent quality work, and their dulcimers hold their value pretty well.  I've owned a couple of all-walnut McSpaddens and have no complaints about any of them.

Molly, I agree with Richard although if you put it on an auction site it could go for more. It could go for less, too.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Not seeing it and based on your description I would think in the neighborhood of $300 to $350. Over the years I have purchased two different McSpadens which were purchased, put away and never played, buying them second hand for $300 each.

Hi, my friends.

I’m trying to answer a question for which I don’t know the answer. How can I find out how much a McSpadden solid walnut hourglass dulcimer is worth? It’s in excellent shape, no cracks or blemishes, built in 1988, with case. I don’t know what this lady is expecting to get for her dulcimer, but she did inquire about its worth. I’d appreciate any advice!

Thanks!

Molly McCurdy

Thanks again, Nate.  The tunes I've posted actually use pretty standard tunings, DAc and DAD with a first fret capo.  I'll be sending some others with more unusual tunings.  Everything is streamable on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Music, Bandcamp, and other platforms.

Have a great day.

Very true Alex!

I find that many combinations of root notes tend to just make things more confusing, which is a fun opportunity to find something new. 

Most of the time, I will alter the tuning in order to achieve specific chords and fit them together into a track, but many of these alternate tunings are fairly difficult for me to play a full song in. Again, it's just an opportunity to try a little harder.

Since I build all my dulcimers, $20 is about my average cost with some being closer to 5 and the most being about 30.

Thanks for taking the time to respond, and I have no doubt you will provide more creative music with creative tunings. 

I hope you have a great day as well, 

Nate

Thanks again, Nate.  I have three dulcimers, one of which cost me $20, is on loan, and I may never see again.  I keep three strings on one, four on the other.

I can adapt to a new tuning pretty quickly.  I'm not sure why, because ukulele essentially being a transposition of guitar (long my main instrument) drives me up a wall.  I have to pretend it's a guitar and not think of the pitches I'm actually playing.  If I was reading tab, of course this wouldn't be a problem.

At least on four strings, I haven't found many tunings that I didn't think work at all.  For me, it's a question of working with a tuning until I find something interesting.  If I were more concerned with playing familiar chords, I'd probably reject more tunings.

Have a great day.

Personally, i have a massive pile of strings and quite a few dulcimers(8 at the moment), so I often experiment with different string gauge combinations, each combination having a different range of possible tunings. Alternate tunings are a fun way to keep myself engaged when I'm getting a little bored and don't know what to do about it.

I would assume that you can probably do a lot more with them than I could, given your background. 

Thanks, Nate.  With only one exception, all the tunings I've used go low to high, which would eliminate some of those possibilities.  The only exception was Eb D F# A.  One of my former students wrote me a piece with many Eb4's.  When I originally played it, I bent the D up to Eb (with three strings), which obviously wasn't ideal, so I went to four equidistant strings, with an Eb on bottom, below the D, and only used it to play those low Eb's.  Never used that tuning again.

I haven't worked much with tuning the D string lower.  I almost always keep it on D.  I'm sure I'll get around to it.

Best,

If each string can be tuned down 3 steps or up 2 steps, that is 6 possible notes per string, which I think amounts to 1200 possible combinations on a 4 string dulcimer. Then it's just a matter of finding the ones that are actually useful lol. I personally am a big fan of ADAd and DAdf#, but as you said, there are so many options.

I had to look up Galax tuning.  I use all-unison tuning sometimes on both 3 and 4 strings and it's indeed powerful.

I spend a lot of time exploring different tunings.  I've come up with about 75 and I think they're more interesting on a 7+1 fret dulcimer than a chromatic dulcimer, although I've never played the latter (and have yet to get interested in buying one).  My interest may stem from a background in classical music and jazz.  I admire and enjoy more traditional repertoires, but I don't play them.  I'm sure the folk who do are better at it than I'd ever be.

If you're interested, I've got channels on most of the major streaming services and three albums (on dulcimer), with another dropping soon.

Have a great week!

Hi Alex.I suspect that going from Galax tuning to D a dd might be inspirational just as doing the reverse was for me.They both have their capabilities and special tunings to explore.Re the thumb,I use it all the time on high melody notes.I liked Dusty Turtle's comment about shifting the angle of the dulcimer...I've learned that if a tune requires a high thumb I have to shift the dulcimer a bit to the left(I'm a righty except with a hockey stick,laugh) and angle it a bit to get the high notes comfortably.

Another thing i always try to do when putting a brand new string on-
I bring the string up to tune about 1 to 2 steps below the final note it will be at... then i leave it for an hour or so before bringing it up to the final note. This is especially good if you are changing or putting on all strings at once.

When i adjust the tuning on a string, I do two safety things-
1. I always turn my head so my face is turned away as much as possible.
2. And I hover my other hand over the fret board near the middle while I turn the peg. That last part would definitely keep the string length from whipping up at full length to reach my face.  So, in rapid succession I pluck the string to hear it sound, then quickly hover that same hand closely over the middle of the fret board while turning the peg with left hand.
If you are tightening a string a long ways (as when just putting it on), you can even lay a little washcloth over the fretboard as you are getting the string 'in the ballpark'.

Richard, I am very paranoid when tuning a new instrument and I wear protective goggles when I do, but I have a lot of dulcimers with old strings and I am always worried that one will break while Im playing. Unfortunately goggles arent always an option, so I'm mostly trying to gauge what a worst case scenario would look like. 

Robin, I could definitely imagine that it hurts. I personally take a mechanical pencil and scribble some graphite into the slots before putting the strings on, and this helps a lot with friction at the nut. 

Jamie, that is good to hear, and I imagine that where it whips is somewhat erratic, so I hope that stays consistent for you. It's good to hear that nobody has an instance of being whipped in the face. 

Thanks all

I spent some time this morning trying out your suggestions.  They offer some new possibilities.  I've been playing 4 equidistant strings for over a year.  I wonder how much difference that makes regarding fingers and thumb.

Alex,  I'll just address your first question here and also encourage you to join the Modern Chord Style Players Group here.

When he performs, Steven Seifert rarely uses his thumb.  Aaron O'Rourke uses his more often, but still not a lot compared to the rest of us.  But importantly, both of them teach chording using the thumb.  And most of use all our fingers.

The reason Seifert and O'Rourke don't use their thumbs that much is that they use their ring finger (Seifert) or their pinky (O'Rourke) to barre across all the strings, allowing the other fingers to fret strings above the barre.  So in DAd, whereas I play the 335 G chord with my middle, ring, and thumb, Aaron just forms a barre with his pinky at 3 and then uses his index finger on the 5.

One thing to keep in mind is that if you don't use your thumb, the dulcimer can sit straight across your lap, kind of perpendicular to your legs. But if you use your thumb, you will want to angle the head of the dulcimer out over your knee more.  This is easy to demonstrate and harder to describe, but the basic idea is that you want a relaxed angle for you fretting hand.  I often change how far out the dulcimer is angled depending on how much I use my thumb in a given song.

Personally, I think the best approach is to be flexible, making sure you are able to use all five fingers, and then choosing the fretting hand attack that best fits a given arrangement.

For the record, I played the guitar for decades before discovering the mountain dulcimer.  I think of the right hand as playing the guitar and the left hand as playing the piano.  Maybe that helps. Maybe not.

Thanks for your answers.  My answers to yours:

1) I knew about Stephen Seifert.  I wonder if he started on guitar, like me.

2) There's a whole literature about string instruments that says, contrary to what may seem like conventional wisdom, that the right hand does the harder work.  I'm very left handed, but was never given the option of playing lefty.  It's been limiting in some ways, but I can do some things with my left hand that righties would find challenging.  Check my stuff out on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Music (or other streams) and see if you agree.

3) I'm passionate about alternate tunings, on 3 or 4 strings.  I think I've found about 70 and they open up worlds of possibilities.  But I have no interest in a chromatic dulcimer.  (I have a guitar for that.)

4) Staff notation is probably not very useful for learning other people's repertoire, unless it's for vocal melodies.  But I compose a lot and I've been reading staff notation forever, so I use it.

Thanks so much.  Such a great community.

Welcome Alex, glad to have you here. I enjoyed the song you posted.
 To answer your questions 
1:  There are some players I've seen that don't seem to use their thumb very much at all, unless it's to make a stretch while holding a chord shape. Stephen Siefert and Aaron O'rourke come to mind. It does look  more comfortable on the wrist.

2: I am right handed, and I've often felt like the left hand is doing harder work than the right on a dulcimer. It might be an advantage to play right handed if you're left handed.

3: I do. It can be a good source of inspiration. I usually stick to 1-5-8 tunings in various keys, but I've recently been playing more 4 string, which opens up a lot more opportunities. 

4: I learned dulcimer with tab, since there is such a huge number of tabs available. Staff notation is a bit intimidating for me, especially when I change keys or modes. I only use it when I have to, like if I'm playing with others and they are using it.