Forum Activity for @lilley-pad

I have never heard of a tenor dulcimer. But what do I know. Is this instrument just a standard Starsong Dulcimer?

Here are better photos.  Just ignore the bath mat... That's the best light in this old house!  Also, the distance from bridge to nut is exactly 27".

Jonathan

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That's just what I was thinking!  One of those aggravating "OOPS!" situations that happen to a builder from time to time.   The solution is to play it up somehow, with some decoration or a nameplate or something!  Then tell folks "that's the way it's SUPPOSED TO look!"

Well, that makes perfect sense.  I didn't even think of that.  And thanks for the compliment.  I'll have a better photo in a few hours.

Jonathan

Thanks for photos Jonathan. It looks like the builder may have miscalculated the placement of the seventh fret and moved it but never filled in the slot. Not sure what another reason would be. Your dulcimer looks nice.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Here is a better photo of the "mystery slot" for those who may be curious.

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I have skimmed through the article by Ken Hulme and it seems that this will answer most, if not all, of my questions.  Thanks for this!  I'll print it out when I get home and study it more closely.

I strongly suspect the dulcimer was made by Mike Clemmer or Sam Carrell.  It's elliptical, but Mom ordered it in Townsend, TN around 1980 or '82.  I don't know of any other luthiers from that time in Townsend.  I have an email in to Mr. Clemmer, but he keeps limited hours these days.  My main question for him is about a slot that has been cut in the finger board, so that's the only photo I have right now.  I'll take another when I get home.  As for the slot, it looks like it's for a missing fret that should be immediately past the 7th, but I can't figure out why a fret would be in that location.  It's more of a curiosity to me.

Also, Thanks for the string calculator.  I'l get a measurement this evening and plug that in.

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Jonathan, can you post a photo of your dulcimer? It may help us to better help you. Also, if you the maker of the dulcimer that would be helpful. Since your father played noter style, it makes sense to start learning in DAA. You double melody strings would be tuned to the A below middle C. The middle string would be the same. The next two strings would "d" and "D" respectively. The bass D, your thick string would be the D below middle C and the other "d" would be just above middle C.

Using 29 inches as the vibrating string length which you estimated to 28-30 inches, the "A" strings would be 0.012, the "D" string would be 0.018, and the high d 0.009. The Strothers string calculator tends to be "light" on string string suggestions so I would change the D to 0.020 and the d to 0.010. If those turn out to be to loose when tuned to pitch you could try 0.011 or 0.012 for the d and 0.022 for the D. You can find the calculator  here.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

I'm not Ken Hulme.I'm the other Ken. Here is the link to his article: https://fotmd.com/strumelia/group_discuss/2316/ken-hulmes-i-just-got-a-dulcimer-now-what-article  

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Thank you for the information!  I'm searching for it now.

JD, one of our members here, Ken Hulme, wrote a very helpful lesson on just such a situation. 

It's called "I Just Got A Dulcimer. Now What?"  He will no doubt be posting a message for you soon!

So, the information on the internet is only as good as the information people post online, and the google search results are only as good as the questions I ask it.  It seems that if a dulcimer is involved in the search term, I get answers that only confuse me more.

My oldest brother recently passed away and I'm now in possession of our father's dulcimer.  This is an instrument we were strictly forbidden to go near as children, so I understand very little about them.  I have figured out that the configuration would be referred to as a "5 string with double melody" and information on this setup seems lacking online.  Here are my big questions:

Is there any particular tuning that would best suit a complete novice?  I have read about DAD, DAA, etc, but nothing really explains what to do with the extra strings aside from the general consensus that the melodies are tuned the same.

If I try to tune the low string to D, I either end up needing to tune the melodies to an A that's way too high for their diameter or I have to tune the low string to a D that's way too low to even be considered a note.  More of a rattle than even a buzz, I suppose you could say.  Should this low string be tuned to A maybe?

Also, my father was a "noter," I think the term is, and that seems like a simple enough route to get started with.  My tuning questions are geared toward this playing style, if it helps.

I also have some questions about the strings themselves.  I know they are very old, possibly even original to the dulcimer.  If so, that puts them in the range of 45 years old, but I'm sure they're in need of replacement at the very least.  Without having the exact length of the finger board in front of me, would it be possible to get recommendations on sizes for new strings?  I do know the overall length of the instrument is 38.5" and would assume the distance between the nut and bridge to measure 28-30."  I ask, because the strings that are on it seem terribly small in diameter.  The melodies measure out at 0.009", progressing through to 0.010", 0.012" and 0.022" respectively.  Nothing online even mentions a string as thin as 0.009" so that has also added to my confusion.

I've been fascinated by this dulcimer, more so than any of his other instruments, since I was a small child when Mom had it made for him.  I'm eager to dive in and start learning, so any help or guidance would be greatly appreciated!

Jonathan

It strikes me that a VSL scale length of 27" is in the normal/standard range for a dulcimer.

I understand.

Hi thanks for the suggestion, I have tried to contact him numerous times, hes not big on communicating so that's why I'm reaching out.

I would recommend contacting Gary Gallier to find out the specifics of your dulcimer. There should be some information if you look inside the sound hole to help him tell you more about your dulcimer.

Congratulations on finding and purchasing one of his dulcimers. It is rare to find one for sale.

I would recommend contacting Gary Gallier to find out the specifics of your dulcimer. There should be some information if you look inside the sound hole to help him tell you more about your dulcimer.

Congratulations on finding and purchasing one of his dulcimers. It is rare to find one for sale.

Let me know what you find out. I personally have never heard of a tenor dulcimer.

His website is dulcimercentral.com.

You have a true treasure there. My music mentor has one of Gary’s dulcimers. I have played it a couple of times. It has an amazing sound 

Hi kids have a question hopefully somebody out there can answer it has to do with a 

Gary Gallier Starsong Dulcimer. I was very fortunate to be able to pick up one of his instruments a little while ago; it was advertised as a tenor Starsong. “A Tenor” If this is the smaller "tenor" version of his normal instrument what size Dimensions is his normal starsong? This one  measurements are. 

Lower bout is 11"  Upper bout is 7.5"  Overall is 39" and the V.S.L. is 27"

Another possibility if you aren't interested in the money would be to donate it to the Appalachian Dulcimer Museum in Sperryville, VA. I'm sure John Hallberg would be interested if he doesn't already have one.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Thanks, Strumelia. I've been around the Appalachian dulcimer world since the late 1960s. Over the years I've met many folks in this community. If I hadn't worked most weekends since 1969 I might have met more. Keeping my eyes and ears open I learned about the history of and people who love the Appalachian dulcimer. I'm still learning and enjoy every new encounter with dulcimer folk and history.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

I agree with John and olddog75 that $300 is a fair price if you are looking to get it in to the hands of someone who will enjoy playing it. Of course you can always ask for more and if it doesn't sell lower the price. It just depends upon whether you want to get it in the hands of a player or try to make money.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

$300 sounds like a good, solid value to me.  It's a beauty!

Searching google for Mark Blair dulcimers, I found one on the reverb.com website marked "sold". It was a teardrop with wormy chestnut top and walnut sides and back. The price was $250.00. It showed as listed eight years ago, but no indication of when it actually sold, though I can't see a company keeping a dulcimer on it's site for eight years.  Looks like Ken's estimate is very valid, maybe leaning a little toward the $300 side nowadays?  Hope this helps..

4 

No one in our family plays instruments so would you have any ideal what I should ask for this Mark Blair dulcimer or any suggestions on a member that might like to have it?

I only knew of Carol (I believe she was connected to the Smithsonian some way) so it is good to know about the work she and Mark did together.  His instruments are beauties!  

@ken-longfield , you never fail to amaze me with how much you know about dulcimers and their makers.

Mark Blair made some wonderful dulcimers. He, along with his wife Carol, wrote a couple of books of music for Appalachian dulcimer. One is a book of hymns, Best Loved Hymns for Appalachian Dulcimer and the other was a book of Christmas hymns. I think the latter might have been self published. Back in November, 2024 I spent some time with his wife, Carol, and their son. We had a good time reminiscing about the dulcimer community around Washington, D.C. in the lat 1960s and 1970s. Looking at the Facebook page John suggested I see that he made 700 dulcimers. I would consider him one of the "revival" builders.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Look up "Mark Blair Dulcimers" on Facebook.  There is a page there of photos of Mark's work.  He passed away several years ago according to the posts there.

Thanks for the on finding the info. There are two stickers inside.  The first one says it was custom built especially for my mother and father in law. The second has the maker

525.       11-83

Blair Dulcimers

Handcrafted Mountain Dulcimers

1704 Trenton Drive

Alexandria,  Virginia 22308

My father in law pastors a Baptist church in Alexandria. 

Vicrich, you have a beautiful dulcimer there! 

I don't recognize it right off, either, but it seems to be well-designed and assembled by somebody.  The soundhole patterns intrigue me.  They remind me somewhat of Ben Seymour's hole patterns on his Galax dulcimers.

Robin, it is a possibility. I don't have the Foxfire plans in front of me to compare, but from the photos posted there are differences from the Mize dulcimers I've seen. The tuning pegs are not quite the same shape and the end block is different from Mize dulcimers. I can't see the peg head well enough to make a comparison. Folks who use plans like Mize's are known to make modifications that appeal to the builder. If the owner of this dulcimer does find a label inside we will know for sure.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

@ken-longfield Elements of the instrument remind me of a Mize-- what do you think?  I'm wondering whether a highly skilled woodworker built it based on Bob Mize's piece in Foxfire and/or patterned this one off an actual Mize instrument.  The tuning pegs look to be nicely hand-carved (and Bob Mize's carved pegs were lovely).  I could be way off track with this line of thinking, though.  

I agree- use a flashlight to really look inside there, peering in at various angles. It happens, but it's rare that a dulcimer that nice would have no label inside at all.

Perhaps this is too obvious, akin to telling you to turn your computer off and then on again, but have you looked into the soundholes to see if there is any information about the luthier?  You might have to shine a flashlight in there to see.

FWIW, the wood is beautiful, and the instrument appears to be in pristine condition. Barring any new information, @ken-longfield's estimates about its value are likely pretty accurate.

The dulcimer looks familiar but I can't place it with a builder at the moment. It appears to be well built and the wood is very nice. I think the to is butternut and the rest of the dulcimer is walnut. It has a 6 1/2 fret but not 13 1/2 fret (octave). Wood tuning pegs are not something most players appreciate these days. On a good day you might be able to sell it for $300 - $350 but without the builder's name that could be a very optimistic. In reality it may only bring between $200 - $300.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

I have no ideal what this dulcimer is valued. I found it in my deceased mother in laws house. Any help would be appreciated.  Pictures are attached but I couldn't find any name or label on it.

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Hi All,

This is the ad for my new album on Neuma Records.  I'm not trying to sell it (although I wouldn't object), I just like the ad a lot.  It should start streaming sometime next month.

https://neumarecords.org/home/ols/products/alex-lubet-amy-levy---songs-of-love-and-loss

It's quite different from anything else I've heard for dulcimer.  As I've said before, I've been a classically trained composer and professor for over fifty years, but have also always played folk and popular music instruments and taught the history of rock music.  The album consists of songs with texts by Victoria era, Anglo-Jewish poet Amy Levy, beautifully sung by my colleague, operatic mezzo soprano Victoria Vargas.  It's an unusual combination, borne first out of our friendship and then our musical instruments.  I could have written for a more conventional accompanying instrument, but Victoria really liked the dulcimer and the idea of performing together.

Thanks and have a great day.

Alex, in general I think the more experience with music of any sort, the easier it is to learn any instrument.  There may be challenges, but they pale in comparison to the challenges faced by someone with no musical experience.

I came to the dulcimer from the guitar and mandolin, and yes, it took a little bit to get used to the bass string being on the other end of the fretboard.  But I found the diatonic fretboard the real obstacle.  There were notes in my head that did not exist on the instrument.  And whereas on the mandolin, for example, once you learned a G major chord, you could slide up a fret to get an Ab, another fret to get an A, another fret to get a Bb, and so forth, moveable chords do not work as simply as that on the dulcimer.  It was indeed confusing.

However, the techniques I had developed for right-hand fingerpicking and flatpicking both transferred over with minor adjustments, and even my left hand, though resembling more piano than guitar technique, was also more advanced than that of a beginner.  No one had to teach me what a hammer-on is, for example, or how to bend a string or get harmonics, or how to strum to get a waltz rhythm, and so forth.

Learning a new instrument is difficult, but experience with one instrument makes learning the next one that much easier.

As challenging as it may have been to understand the diatonic fretboard, some people come to the dulcimer with no knowledge of music at all. They don't know what a note is or what a key is.  They ask questions like "how do I know when to strum?" which is not something someone who has already played another string instrument would ever ask.

Hi All,

Greetings from Minnesota and a good week to you.

Mostly for curiosity, I'm asking those of you who teach dulcimer whether it's generally easier to teach someone with prior string instrument or none.  Although I don't teach dulcimer, as a teacher of music composition, I often assign students to write for it, as it's a challenging instrument to learn in that capacity.  On occasion, I've noticed that guitarists struggle with the "reverse" order of the strings, while non-string players don't have that issue.

In an analogous way, I have a colleague from Ghana who teaches West African music, both non-music and music majors, the latter mostly classical musicians.  He often finds the former take to African rhythms more readily, not being nearly as acclimated to the very different rhythms of classical music.

Thoughts?

Many thanks in advance,

I've just acquired a New Harmony Command performance Dulcimer. I spent about an hour auditioning it.

Now, All my other Dulcimers have 1 1/2 " wide fret boards which work for me because of my pudgy fingers. In the hour during auditioning the new one I didn't really pay attention to this (to busy enjoying the sound of it).

I had a really long session with yesterday and found that more times then not when playing something a first position G chord the finger fretting the middle string will impinge on the melody string giving a bum note to it. The was happening quite often and with similar bass & middle string fretting.

So my question is thus do dulcimer players supposed be able to just pick up any dulcimer fret board width and play it ok?

I am what I suppose you call an advance beginner or starter intermediate. I can play the New Harmony albeit completely changing my fretting technique for this shorter width. Will learning to cope with a 13/8ths wide board help improve my playing? The New Harmony is very unforgiving as it is.

Due i stick with it or change it for a 1 1/2" like all my others?

Many thanks for any advice

Richard

In reference to bowed dulcimers, I know there are a lot of types and styles. Personally I just add a radius to the bridge, with the middle string being physically higher than the melody and bass, and call it good there. It makes the intonation a bit trickier, but it solves the challenge of bowing (or plucking) the middle string individually.

I would think that overall, a radiused fingerboard on dulcimer would have a small benefit, but wouldn't be worth the effort. When I made one just out of curiosity, I found that since I wasn't already used to barring chords, it didn't have any immediate benefit for me.