Forum Activity for @robin-thompson

I've loved the tune Cattle in the Cane for years!  Betty Vornbrock of the Reed Island Rounders fiddles it beautifully.  And on their cd Hell up Coal Holler, Gerry Milnes (fiddle) & Lorraine Lee Hammond (Appalachian dulcimer) play a really nice version of the tune.  

Right now, the tune feels out of reach for me. . . Maybe someday I'll work up a noter/drone version.  

Do any of y'all have any out-of-reach tunes now that you hope to figure-out someday?  

That is quite distinctive.  And I don't recall having seen the exact form on a mountain dulcimer before. 

No label, hence my question...

My bad description -- it is a deep grooved circle in the scroll end of the head.  Easy to make with a router and some router-experience.

No maker's label inside?  

I have a Dixon Trad brass in D too, Jennifer.  I really like the 'temple bell'-like tone it has, don't you?  It sounds prettier to me than for example the Generation brass whistles I have.

Thanks Ken, easy way for the novice builder to work with sound hole design. 

A closer view may clarify. The scroll is not a spiral but a concentric ring; it tapers dramatically from 36mm to 6mm. I will defer to your experience but I have not seen one anything like this.

https://www.banjohangout.org/photo/230369.

[I tried loading pix directly but when I tried both JPEG and PDF it said it had to be in JPEG or PDF format. IOW, it didn't recognize my formats.]

My current dream instrument  is a Mike Clemmer, church dulcimer with butternut top on walnut body. Thanks for your attention 

To me those scrolls aren't particularly distinctive.  I've seen a lot of builders make that sort of 'grooved scroll'.

It's not square inches of sound hole per X amount of surface area... the equation uses the volume of the instrument, not the surface area, so the shape of the instrument is irrelevant  -- hourglass, teardrop, box, little brown jug, bowed psaltery, violin, etc.   For dulcimers I use, as a rough guide, the area of 4 American quarter coins  -- not as much as 6, not as few as 3.

Ken, can you share you thoughts regarding number of sq. " per surface area of the top of the instrument? For example hourglass shape will have different surface area than a teardrop....possibly...

The shape of the soundhole(s) is irrelevant.  It's the square area of holes that matters.  Too little soundhole area and the instrument is muted.  Too much soundhole area and the instrument sounds "brash".  There's a complex formula called the Helmholtz Equation where you can calculate all this is you like partial differential equations.  But most of us just say want 2-3 square inches of sound hole area for a 'good' sound.  

You can certainly do leaves -- Cripple Creek was famous for their Aspen leaf holes -- and any decent luthier will know how many leaves to get the right sound...

I once built a replica Baltic Psaltery, on which the original instrument had just over 100 soundholes arranged in a spiral design, each hole was a hair less that 1/8" diameter....

(Any sales transaction should have return terms made clear before the purchase.)

Makes sense & many times so over looked.

Thanks for all the info, I will pass it on to the group I am with, since it's not something we knew.

Any sales transaction should have return terms made clear before the purchase.  That's true for online purchases, retail stores, and yes even between friends.

Always find out seller's return policy before buying or commissioning any instrument, new or used!

Why?  Because 'etiquette' is not legally binding in any way.. and it also varies tremendously.  There is no standard policy for returns- different people/sellers all have different return policies... or no returns at all sometimes.
Paypal will usually help you if the item was damaged or misrepresented.  But if it's a just matter of you changing your mind and the seller doesn't want it shipped back and had not stipulated a return policy, then paypal might not get involved.  If the seller did not mention any return policy at all, then they have a right to say 'no returns' after the sale is complete. Unless they misrepresented the item or its condition.

As a buyer, you should ask for the return policy to be spelled out in writing if it's not already.  Before money changes hands.  We are talking about significant amounts of money here!

Time frame for return?  I'd say two weeks.  That gives a buyer plenty of time to decide whether you "like" an instrument or not, and determine that the instrument plays and tunes correctly.  If the fret-spacing is off, or the tuners won't hold, or the baritone sound isn't what you expected, then a luthier or a store should take the instrument back, although, as Dusty sez, you'll probably have to pay shipping.

If you custom orders things like extra frets or custom sound holes or carvings, or color-dyed wood, and you just don't like it, then caveat emptor .  You, the buyer, should have experimented with a taped on extra fret, or you and the luthier should have exchanged photos of carvings/colors long before the instrument was completed or shipped.   IMHO a customized instrument cannot be returned, because a luthier or store will be hard pressed to find someone who wants that sort of customization, and will lose a lot of money.  

Dealing with friends???? Good luck with that!!!

Marg, most reputable luthiers will refund your money upon return of a dulcimer if you are not happy with it. You might be responsible for the shipping costs, though.  The same is probably true of music stores, although if you played the instrument before buying it they might be less than enthusiastic about the return.  As for friends, well, I think you have to determine that on a case-by-case basis.

But I also think some responsibility rests with the buyer.  If there is something truly wrong with a dulcimer, such as the intonation for example, you have every right to return it. However, if, for example, you buy a baritone dulcimer and just decide you don't like the lower register and want a standard dulcimer instead, well, I personally don't think the luthier or store should be responsible for your indecision.

What is the etiquette when buying or selling dulcimers?

Is there a time frame where you can return a dulcimer for a refund or offer a reimbursement if the dulcimer doesn't work out? Is there any difference if it's the builder, a music store or a friend?

My next dream dulcimer, I think, will be a Kevin Messenger Presnell reproduction, walnut back, sides, fretboard, butternut or poplar top, natural finish, not painted, Just intonated, Perfection or Wittner tuning pegs. Its on top of my bucket list for early next year.

 @ellen-horn 

Way cool!  I gotta ask-- what did Jackson Browne's lap dulcimer look like?  

I'm on my way to my dream dulcimer.  I've wanted a Joellen Lapidus instrument since I played Jackson Browne's, back in the 70's.  I've met with her twice and we're deciding on inlays.  It also turns out we are, in some way, related!  She's a great gal and I'm so excited about this.  It will mean, of course, that I'm going to have to let go of some of the other dulcimers.  Just trying to decide who needs a new home....

It helps to heat the fret with a soldering iron, if you're set on removing it.  Heat melts any glue that might have been used, and also gets the wood to "let loose of the fret" easier.  Fewer splinters occur.  But maybe just leave it in?

( might also use this as an excuse to get another dulcimer!)

Ha, ha, that is why I got this one for the 1+. I play the 9 with my thumb & the space is not wide enough for that. Yes, I do need to become familiar with the 1+, I do keep hitting it when I want a 2 -  not quit sure I like the sound when I slide over it. 

No, I was not doing anything yet, just getting info & I am always thankful for what you all have to say. Ya'll have many years of knowing things about the dulcimer & I don't have enough time left to learn but get a quick look from you into all my questions. So again, thanks

Marg, I don't know how to remove a fret, so I can't help you there.  However, the lack of knowledge has never discouraged me from speaking up!     

My advice is to be patient and not rush into altering your dulcimer in this way.

As others have explained, it would be easy to harm your freboard when removing a fret, and you certainly don't want to do that.  

Skip might be right that if you keep playing and consciously think about the small space available for the 9th fret, your technique will improve and this problem may cease to exist. 

And if you keep playing for a while, you might find uses for the 8-1/2 fret as you get more used to it. 

For the three reasons above, I suggest waiting a while before making a final decision to remove a fret. You can always do it later, but in 6 months or so you might find it unnecessary or even undesireable.

You might also use this as an excuse to get another dulcimer!

Maybe it's a matter of familiarity using that fret?

Hmmm, sounds like something I shouldn't try on my own. I have written the builder & will see what he has to say - if he glued the frets in or not or would he take out one of his frets - then the trick of getting it to him.

The other thing I thought of was to file it down. Before I would do or have any of this done, I guess I would need to consider if I will have this dulcimer forever or would want to pass it on one day. But to make it work for me, I really feel I need to have more room to fret the 9.

Thanks 

Removing a fret is not as easy as it sounds. You need to be very careful. Frets have tangs which hold them in place and when the frets are pulled the tangs have a tendency to pull some of the wood out of the fret board. Once the fret is removed, you need to fill that empty space. There are special tools designed to pull frets with minimal damage. Various types of wood used for fret boards react differently to having frets pulled. If the builder of your dulcimer glued the frets in, you have another whole set of problems. I am not suggesting it can't be done, but it is not a job for the faint-of-heart.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

You can slide a knife edge under a corner and pry the fret up but you are almost sure to  create splinters on the slot edge. Frets have little 'teeth' on each side of the tang to grip the sides of the slot. These teeth have a tendency to tear out the surface of the fretboard. There are tools the help prevent that but they don't work 100%. 

There are pliers specifically designed to remove frets, some builders may use a very thin knife, working it across the length of the fret on both sides, some frets may be tapped on the very end in an upward manner (not usually recommended). Any method requires protecting the surface of the fretboard as much as possible.  There are even thin metal 'fret shields' that may be used during the process.  If the fret has been glued in it is going to be even more difficult. Just go slow and easy. 

I am sure other members may have suggestions. 

I have a dulcimer that has the 1+ & the 8+, I have trouble fretting the 9  for a clear ring (too small a space), so I was thinking I could remove the 8+ fret since I need the 9 & not the 8+.

Is a fret usually just tapped in, & would I slid something small in under it & try & lift enough to grab with some pliers?  

Suggestions & ideas welcome

thanks

Jennifer, maybe you're like me? ...and find that the two instruments feel so different to play that it's almost impossible to compare the dulcimer and the whistle against each other.   
What kind of Dixon did you get?  I like my Dixon whistles very much.  

Some whistles don't play in tune on some notes, and that can be infuriating.  But some cheaper whistles are quite nice too. Then there are the odd duds as well, even with higher priced whistles. 

Yikes Sheryl... those Carbonys are like over $400...?!  Out of my league... at least when it comes to whistles.  lolol

I like being able to reach for a whistle based on my mood that day.  I keep my whistles handy, standing in a metal cannister on my desk... like a bouquet of flowers!   

I like Walton brand of brass whistles. No tweaks, play great right out of the box. Too bad they don't make them is other keys besides D & C. For less than $15, you can't go wrong. I never played the $200 and up whistles but I'm sure it won't improve my playing anyway. Basically a whistle is a whistle,just a lot of fun on a low budget. 

The thing that really blows me away is when I learn a tune and find myself fingering away without ever thinking about where my fingers are suppose to go. Its almost like I'm standing beside myself listening to another player... Robert.

Anyone going to the Heartland Dulcimer Fest Nov.3-4 in Elizabethtown, KY?   Dulcinina

So here's my technique for hollowing the body plank.  I set the drill press to leave 1/8" below the tip of the spike.  Then I use a chisel to remove the webs between holes and smooth the edges.

 Cleaning body.jpg - 89KB

Wow, that is some spider!  :) 

While at Ken Bloom's Bowed Dulcimer workshop in Pilot Mt. NC a couple of years ago, a talented young lady played a Carbony flute in the key of D. It was lovely. If I can ever scrape up a few hundred dollars I don't want to spend on dulcimers, or tools to work on dulcimers, I'll buy one!