Forum Activity for @sheryl-st-clare

How very exciting Lisa! You must really be coming along with your bones playing. I can’t wait to see your skills in that video you promised Bob. (With a few stipulations)

If a dulcimer has a 6+ then that's one too many frets for me

Lisa, keep your bones as loose as possible in your hand. This will make you insecure about dropping the bones and will keep the movements smaller resulting in less sound. Play relaxed!

So Don and Linda, that's three of us.  I gave additional frets a try when my builder suggested the addition.  Bad mistake indeed.  It no longer was that quaint diatonic instrument that I'd learned to love.  No it now was a complicated hodgepodge and not as good as a chromatic "guitar" as it were.  I ended up selling the instrument to another that wanted such a thing.  I couldn't bear to have an off colored plug in place of the missing fret I guess?

I'm with you Don. I found a nice olde mcspadden that I like a lot. It had a     I I/2 . I took it up there last week and had it taken out. Lol. They looked at me like o had 4 eyes. 

@don-moores: I play chromatic dulcimer more than trad, because arthritis, tendonitis and nerve damage in both hands/wrists makes it impossible for me to hold and fret a guitar. Mine is a 6 string, but played like a 3 string. Your (3) is not an option for me. But it is still quite different than a guitar even though it is chromatic. You can get more of a guitar like sound from it though. My trad dulcimer is choice for just the old tyme tunes, but for writing and playing my own songs, having so many more choices on a chrom dulcimer is soul expanding..... . 

Most bagpipes and bombards (from Brittany, in France) are in B flat so when it comes to celtic music, a tuning I like to use on my dulcimer is Bb(low)-Bb(high x3). It really sounds like a bagpipe, I find the tone more interesting than C-C-cc (but maybe it is because my melody strings are too thin, they are 0.010). Otherwise, I prefer myxolidian tunings DAdd or CGcc 

That's great Lisa. Keep up the good work.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

hahaha.

I sold three pairs of bones that I didn't care for much, and ordered two pairs that I really want to try out (made of ox shin bones but slender sized).   Wound up being about the same money, so that's always nice.   can't wait to get the new ones.

I practiced with Brian this evening...with him playing fiddle tunes.  I get nervous about that because he's pretty particular about accompaniment sound/noise, and it's so easy to sound too loud on bones.     Well, I made tons of mistakes, flubbing up left and right, but got a few good phrases in too.  So....he totally shocked me by saying that he LIKED our fiddle/bones "duet".   !!!  I asked him if he was just trying to be nice, and he said no, that he liked it and wanted to do more practice of fiddle & bones together, so I could improve more.    Woo-HOOO!

Despite all the awkward attempts and missed beats, I love that feeling of when you occasionally 'nail it' with a good crisp rattle that is perfectly timed and snapped shut at the end just right. 

I play Ionian BF#F#  or or B Bagpipe Bbb frequently as it suits my voice much better than C or D.  A dulcimer is not a guitar.

I only noticed because I play in it all the time but don't want a new player learning to try it and it not work .

It's BF#B or   Bflat F Bflat

Thanks so much, this is vey helpful              and I look forward to trying them out.

ken,       DAd tab - to play any of the Mixolydian Modal Tunings:   AEa, BFb, CGc, DAd, EBe, FCf, GDg     Likewise you can play DAA tab using any of the Ionian Modal Tunings:    AEE, BFF, CGG, DAA, EBB, FCC, GDD

don,       One nice thing though is whether you're in DAD or DAA you can change to CGC or CGG or whatever key you prefer as long as you keep the string values the same (1-5-8 or 1-5-5) and you can still use the DAD or DAA TABs. 

Don perhaps you mean Homer Ledford, not Roscoe Holcomb?

Don, another interesting thing about keyboards, pianos, organs and the like.  I've had rebuilding experience with a number of turn of the century and prior Pump and pipe organs (the home parlor type).  The actual largest pump organ must have been for a funeral parlor (due to the plant stands made by the maker of the instrumen) and the fact it was a two manual, full concave radiating peddleboard and although it had foot tredles, it also had a choir boy lever on the back so a second person could pump the bellows allowing the organist use of his feet on the peddleboard.  Interesting stuff when you get into it.  But to the point.  Most and then again only some, of these instruments shot for A440 in their tunings.  Shot for is being generous as most all were in need of tuning across the board where age and oxidation and various other reasons had taken the entire instrument out of tune.  After cleaning and repair and tuning the instrument to itself (just catching the flyers be it flat or sharp) you could establish an overal pitch by use of a quality electronic tuner (not the instrument case ten dollar types).  I found that a lot of these period instruments were as much as 50 cents off if not completely a couple of whole steps out of tune.  The best that could be hoped for was to tune it to itself as trying to acheive true A440 would end up breaking something especially in a piano with old strings.  For years a musical instrument was what could be cobbled together in the home or workshop (thus the reason for early Americans and the Tenessee Music boxes)  A town would be lucky to have a larger instrument in the school or church and usually an upright piano or pump organ served that purpose well.  I emagine that if one were versed with the local town instrument then that would carry forward to home built instruments as well?  Maybe that would give rise to a number of "C" based instruments?  Just speculating here, but even in just notation, a song in the key of C just plain looks neater whether or not it's easier to play or not.  Kevin.

Jean Ritchie once wrote that when she was young she and her sisters had a bit of a hard time singing so high in C, but that they had little choice because the men of the family and in church sang everything in C since that's how it was in the hymn books and the men had no trouble singing low in that key.  So the women had to go along with it but an octave higher, and their voices became trained to sing higher than they might normally have done if they had been able to choose the keys early on.
Jean's father was quite shy about playing the dulcimer in front of others, and he played exclusively in key of C, ionian mode.  Many of the tunes he played were hymns and church songs, though he played some fun tunes as well.  But Jean said if people focused on him too much while he played, that he would often just get up and put the dulcimer back on the wall.

Jean also wrote that shortly before her time, Cecil Sharpe came through the area on one of his later music collecting trips, and that he asked the children in school about the kinds of music and instruments they all had and played or sang at home.  Jean's sister Edna remembered this happening, and when she was questioned, she did not even mention the dulicmer in their home or the playing of it, because as she told Jean, she did not get the impression that the dulcimer was considered a 'real' or serious instrument like the kind she thought Mr. Sharp might even be interested in for his survey.  This reminds me of the passage written by Dame Campbell about how Sharp would occasionally follow leads through the mountains to locate a pocket of good singers he was told about, but that sometimes he'd arrive there after several days travel only to find the singers in question were black, and he'd turn around and go back, considering the lead and his trip to have been a total waste of time.  Thus, many songs by black mountain dwellers of the same time and place were never recorded on paper or cylinders.  Information on such songs and music would have been a true treasure to have now.

The dulcimer's ancestors were often used to play hymns and religious pieces, particularly as the violin was frowned upon as being associated with unGodliness and was more often used for dances and 'frolicking' because of that. 

Maybe while I’m at it, I can order some Anti-Monkey Butt Powder to go with my Gorilla Snot. TMI? Do they make anything with a disgusting name that includes bonobos? 

Good to know. Snot it is! Unless I can find a beeswas candle... The honey stand at the farmers market didn't have any. Guess they don't stock candles in an outdoor market in August in the SE. Go figure! 

Although self taught on the organ and piano, instructional books and lesson planners for same are most always done in the key of C as well.  It makes for tiier notation and easier explanations of the musical chords and the like.  No sharps or flats until absolutely necessary.  I found in playing organ for my church that there was a reason that the old timers wrote in Ab or Eb and the like.  It's far easier to play such a key on a keyboard.  Sure the notation would make a beginner cringe, it actually is quite a bit easier since you hand moves forward into the keys and index and middle fingers hit the flats easily whereas the pinkey and thumb are left to hit the few naturals of those keys.  If you know piano (or at least a very little), try forming a chord in the key of C and then a song of chords where C, F, and G7 are asked for, then do the same for the key of Ab.  You'll see what I mean.  Different though on the dulcimer as it's just as easy to play on an instrument tuned in any of the keys, it's just that C's notation looks a bunch cleaner to the biginner.  Kevin.

Sheryl, you'll have a hard time using a hard dry cake of violin rosin.  Gorilla snot is rosin in a soft paste base, and rubs off easily when you're done.  I can't imagine the hard cake rosin would work well- it tends to be very brittle and crumbles, cracks, and powders off the cake if rubbed on something hard like the bones.

By the way, you are only supposed to applly a little sticky beeswax or GSnot to the EDGES of the bones- not on the big flat surfaces.

As I understand it, Gorilla snot is a form of rosin, so I guess a cake of rosin made for use by violinists would work too. I'm certain they will have that at my local music store. There is a pretty interesting entry for Rosin, which includes the many uses of rosin in our lives, on Wikipedia. If you’re interested.

(I am finding that as I improve my grip on the bones, there is considerably less slippage.)

Here's a bit of a dulcimer history myth buster!

Although we have a folklore that pre-revival dulcimers were generally played in the key of C, I've yet to find any early recordings or pre-revival design features on the instrument that holds this to be true.

Jean Ritchie's 'The Dulcimer Book' is written in C but in all her early recordings (prior to the book) she in tuned a tone and a half or so higher to suit her voice.  And an Ambugy (Jean's early dulcimer used for her first recordings) does struggle to produce any volume in C with 2nd and 4th banjo strings (or any other strings for that matter!).  The recordings and articles I've found from Virginia, WV, NC, Ohio are not in the key of C.  The keys of D, G, A (often mixolidian) or a little higher being prevelant - with the majority of old dulcimers being built and played around the key of G.

The Hindaman School may have had an influence on the development of our belief that early dulcimers were in the key of C.  Edna Ritchie apparently used that key (possibly due to her vocal range or because she played other instruments too) and the explanation given to beginners that ".....the dulcimer frets are set to a 7 note scale like the white keys on a piano..." could also have influenced teaching books to use the C scale to make explanations easy.  You can tune a dulcimer down to CGG, and some will sound and play OK but that 28" Kentucky scale (less in other areas) on the smaller bodies of older dulcimers means they struggle to perform well at that pitch. 

There's a great video on youtube of Ralph Lee Smith playing his original Prichard dulcimer.  In it he is tuned up to E (E,B,B).  I emailed him nad asked why he did that and he said that the dulcimer didn't find its voice until it was tuned up a little.  And I have to say my experience of playing older dulcimers mirrors that finding.

One of the 'problems' with DAd is that the high 'd' on a 28" scale is not ideal so we need quite a thin string gauge to comfortably work that VSL at that pitch.  It is difficult to raise a 28" scale dulcimer much further in 1-5-8 - say up to EBe or FCf without breaking strings.  Whereas from DAA is is simpler to push the tuning higher towards something that may better suit the physics of the instrument - and use strings at a more appropriate gauge for the physics of the instrument too.

Contemporary DAd dulcimer players struggle with lack of volume - the dulcimer has become a quite instrument.  Early playing styles, set-ups and tunings often meant that this was far from the case - in many regions the dulcimer, like its European predecessors, was loud enough for dancing.  It has not always been a solo, sit on the porch at dusk instrument for singing to the moon.  Jean Ritchie was a unique player and a remarkable innovator on dulcimer.  The tunes she played and sang were old but her playing style was her own.  She was hugely influential in the growth of the dulcimer and conclusions about the instrument's history drawn from listening Jean play have fallen into folklore.  And yet no one plays like Jean today!

So feel free to innovate on your own as that's as much a part of the history of the instrument as anything.  I can't think of two pre-revival players I've heard who actually played alike.  DAd and contemporary playing has to some extent homogenised the instrument more than at any time in its history - So feel free to break away from the mould and see what music you can discover inside our little boxes of delight!

Hello Peter, 

Great work,   Thanks for sharing,    I get asked a lot for books and playing resources for starting Kantele,  most of which are in Finnish.  Let me know if its ok to add links to your website on my kantele pages.   These days I mostly make 11 string and Custom 15 Drone Kanteles but I have just started producing small batches of standard 5 string Kanteles again to keep in stock,  Using American Tulipwood for the soundboard/frame and Beech under the headstock for the Zither pins,                

Best wishes  Michael J King 

If you can't find beeswax there is the Product Gorilla Snot.  Drummers use it to hang on to their sticks.  It comes in a small jar.  I know the name is a little rough but it has that stickin quality.

Hey that's a cool story, thanks!

Nancy -- the Key or Keynote your dulcimer is in is the open note of the Bass string, not the start note of the scale for that Mode.  If your dulcimer is tuned DAC or DAG you are in the key of D.  In DAC the scale starts at the 1st and 8th frets;  in DAG the scale starts at the 4th and 11th frets (ignore the 6+ and 13+ frets which are not part of the true diatonic fretboard).

Hi Strumelia:  This might be a helpful suggestions or a complete miss but when I started to learn the bones and I am by no means great at it I would take them with me when I walk my babies.  The cadence of my pace helped me find my rhythm.

I remember one day I had to pick my car up at the local national brand name auto repair shop.  I got my pep up to meet the boys..... I mean the mechanics and get my car back.  Well the walk is a 1/4 mile stroll which takes me about 10 minutes.  I was clicking away when I came upon the crossing guards for the local school.  Since being a former professional clown I have no problems looking absolutely foolish in public.  So while I waited for the personal excort (always want to set a good example for the kidos) I just kept clicking away.  The guards were fascinated and I got to share my limited new talent. 

Hi Dusty! I would say that Malicorne is the French equivalent of Steeleye Span. They began to play during the 70's. Most of their tunes are played with a dulcimer or a épinette des Vosges. By example the fifth tune of the concert is a dance called "Bacchu Ber" from the Alpes mountain, played on a dulcimer tuned cAD.

Lexie, thanks - I don't know how to ask questions either but ask anyway and like you, I am so glad we have this site and it's members to help us understand our dulcimer. I have seen some of your post and think you do quite well with your comments.

Thanks linda, when I retuned from DAd to DAA on my red stain dulcimer I did change my bottom string because it was slack. I also put on a bit heavier one.

C'est super cool, ça!  Thanks for letting us know about that, Pierre!  I obviously need to get to know Malicorne better, huh?

Malicorne, the most famous French folk band is touring again with a new split including founder members Gabriel Yacoub, Marie Sauvet, and Laurent Vercambre. Hurdy-gurdy, nickelharpa ... and dulcimer!

http://concert.arte.tv/fr/malicorne-au-paleo

You can also try Craggy Mountain Music, as they carry strings and other dulcimer accessories. 

Hi marg.  I play in CGC all the time. I did want to correct one little thing if you are going to be trying some of these.  My friend sings in Bflat so I tune to B flat -F - Bflat a lot.if you run to B it will have to be B-F#-B. One other tip. If you have been tuned to D for awhile your strings will be slack if you tune down. A new set will fix that. I tune one in D and one in C so I don't have to change often. A lot of the really old books were written in C. Understanding that DAD is not a tuning but rather a mixolydian tuning in the key of D makes it a little easier to understand. 

Key of F. Aeolian would be F c eb. Very risky if your vsl is greater than 26". Dorian is F c bb. I have never played in F. So others might correct me on this. I really like dorian, just avoid the 6+ fret... Robert. 

Yes Marg, please continue to ask questions, those of us who have little or no musical experience at times don't know what question or how to ask a question.

There are many of these types of discussions I study and refer back too, take notes on so, I will gain at my understanding of my dulcimer and how to play and tune it. Many of us only have the folks on this site to help us learn.

I think we would be surprised how many new players pour over old disscussions to gain knowledge and not know what to ask.

I am sure I will have questions, even with all the many answers - you are right, depends on the way they are explain ... different angles. When the right way for me to understand is stated and sometimes several times, I finnally start to see.

;-)

Marg--you thanked us "for answering what must seem to you as very simple silly questions ", but I think your questions are very helpful--not just to you, but to others who are struggling with the same issues, as well those of us attempting to give helpful answers.  I keep checking back to see if others chiming in are agreeing or disagreeing with what I've said--and if they're disagreeing, then I need to find out why and decide if we're both right, but just explaining it from a different angle.  So, by all means keep asking questions like these!

Thanks to all of you, I am learning a good bit from this discussion. 

    I e-mailed my dulcimer group I play with last night, if they would like to change tunings to CGc. I am waiting to hear from them but I have the dulciborn tuned to CGc - not the one I take to practice so I'm good with playing with the group in DAd, that's what I am tuned to on my John Naylor dulcimer and the one I used with the group. 

    I have learned a lot from you guys, so thanks again for answering what must seem to you as very simple silly questions - but for me your answers are hugh breakthroughs, so many of the discussions are Amazing Discoveries for me.

If a group is playing instruments tuned to the keynote of D for example -- usually DAd -- then, technically you can play in any other "key of D" tuning (DAA, DAC, DAG, etc) and sound as if you are part of the group.  You won't necessarily be playing the same notes as the others -- you'll often be creating your own "part" with notes that will blend with the others.  But because you're all in a given keynote (say D) then it all can sound good together.   I often play N&D style in the DAA or Ddd tuning while the group around me plays chords in DAd.  I usually play the same notes as they do, but not on the same frets.  If you're just beginning it is most helpful to you to play in the same tuning as the rest. 

If everyone else is tuned to DAd and you're tuned to CGc or EBe it just isn't going to sound right.  You'd all be playing the same frets, but not the same notes and it could sound rather bad!

Marg said "One more question,  - if I can play DAd in all the (Mixolydian Modal Tunings)"

As I said above:  You can use DAd tab to play ANY of the Mixolydian Modal Tunings: AEa, BFb, CGc, DAd, EBe, FCf, GDg

"...play DAd in all the (Mixolydian Modal Tunings) is a non sequiteur

You can't play DAd if others are tuned to GCc, or vice versa.  Trust it will sound "not good"!

Ron, your solution works on my tuning head too. Thanks for the idea. I play with a group a few times a week. Got to be in tune.