Forum Activity for @nate

Nate
@nate
03/29/25 04:17:04AM
390 posts

Mountain Dulcimer Picture in Mathematics Magazine


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Congratulations, that's awesome. Since I likely wouldn't be able to interpret the paper even if I could access it,(math and I are like nodes and anti nodesgiggle2 ) are there any insights you could share about the ideal place to strum, based on your findings?

Dusty Turtle
@dusty
03/29/25 04:12:10AM
1,807 posts

Mountain Dulcimer Picture in Mathematics Magazine


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Congrats, John.  I was able to locate a summary and your bio, but Taylor & Francis won't let me see the whole text.  My library has a four-year delay for full-text articles of that particular journal. That's OK. I learned a little about you and can see from the summary that I really wouldn't understand the text anyway.  I may request it through Interlibrary Loan just to add to the dulcimer library.

How do you measure tone mathematically?  It seems like such a subjective quality.


updated by @dusty: 03/29/25 04:15:13AM
Nate
@nate
03/29/25 03:19:28AM
390 posts

Short scale dulcimer


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

1) If you were to use normal strings, you would want to tune them higher than normal. If you were to tune the strings normally on an instrument that is too short, the strings won't have enough tension, resulting in a floppy feel and a weaker sound. A common tuning for short scale dulcimers using normal strings is to tune up from D to G. This would be Gdd or Gdg, rather than Daa or Dad, but you may need to tune it even higher.

2) if you want to play in standard tuning, you will need strings of a heavier gauge than normal.

3) This is a bit more complicated of a topic that may require more nuanced explanation, but this is the process that I personally use:
First, measure the distance between the nut and the 7th fret. The VSL is exactly double that distance, before adjusting for intonation. Make a temporary mark at this distance for your "estimated" bridge placement.
Next you will need to cut your bridge to the correct height. The correct height can be determined using the "nickel and dime" method, which is explained in other threads on this website.
String up the instrument, place the bridge at the 'estimated' correct distance, and tune up the strings. Tune the string up until it is perfectly in tune with the target note, then pluck the string at the 7th fret and note whether the "octave note" is sharp or flat. If the octave note is flat when the root note is perfectly in tune, the bridge needs to be moved slightly closer to the nut. If the octave note is sharp when the root note is perfectly in tune, the bridge needs to be moved slightly farther from the nut.
Detune the strings, adjust the bridge slightly, then tune back up and check again. When all three strings are perfectly in tune at the root note, and perfectly in tune at the octave fret (or as close as you can reasonably get it) the bridge is now in it's correct placement.


updated by @nate: 03/29/25 03:21:46AM
John Pettreemusic
@john-petry
03/29/25 03:12:22AM
48 posts

Short scale dulcimer


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Points to ponder.... If your instrument is 17.25 inches over all, I'm supposing some of that length is headstock and tail? So perhaps we're dealing with a VSL of 13-14 ish?  Most mandolins are about 14 inches VSL [They tune G3-D4-A5-E5] So perhaps a set of mando strings could be a starting point? And you get a few spares.... Your tuning can be the same notes as any other dulcimer, but you are going to be in a HIGHER OCTAVE generally.

With your bridge placed where it looks "right", string and tune 1 open string to pitch. Going to the 1st fret and so forth, your notes should progress in step, if not, re position bridge, re tune and try again. Once you are good to the first fret, move on down and fine adjust down the line. Once you're good with one string, go and string up the rest. With a VSL this short, there is not a lot of forgiveness.

If you are able, a picture or two of this "mini" would be appreciated.

Nate
@nate
03/29/25 02:59:47AM
390 posts

North Country Dulcimer


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I like this bridge design, and the type of sound they seem to produce. A bit less nasally than a bridge sitting on the fingerboard, and less round than a bridge on the soundboard. I've built a couple bridges like this, and I just wish I saw this one beforehand, because it would have saved me some time on the drawing board lol.

The nut and headstock are also very cool.

Steven Stroot
@steven-stroot
03/28/25 11:07:18PM
34 posts

Short scale dulcimer


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I just purchased a used four string instrument.  What's interesting is it's about 17 1/4 inches overall length.  It needs strings so my questions are: 

1)  Will a standard set of dulcimer strings suffice or should this smaller instrument be equipped with strings specifically designed for the short VSL?

2)  Will standard tuning work or should I tune this instrument different than a full-size dulcimer?

3)  It's missing its bridge so I'll have to make one.  There is no groove or anything else to indicate the original bridge placement.  How can I determine where to position the bridge?

Thank you in advance for any help you can provide.

s11141827
@s11141827
03/28/25 05:57:33PM
20 posts

Bowing a dulcimer


Adventures with 'other' instruments...

There are bowed dulcimers

JohnR
@johnr
03/28/25 04:45:25PM
7 posts

Mountain Dulcimer Picture in Mathematics Magazine


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Everyone - this is a thank you, a brag, and announcement of a mountain dulcimer picture in a place you wouldn't expect - Mathematics Magazine.  After reading and watching many of you on this site, I was inspired to investigate an aspect of the vibrating string partial differential equation.  Thanks!  This resulted in a paper "What I Heard from the P.D.E." which has just been published - Mathematics Magazine, Vol. 98, No. 1, February 2025.  In the introduction, there's a picture of my dulcimers.  Most college libraries have subscriptions to Mathematics Magazine.  

Ken Longfield
@ken-longfield
03/28/25 12:50:13PM
1,230 posts

North Country Dulcimer


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

In the 1980s and 90s Robert Hutchinson and his wife, Yvonne, made mountain dulcimers under the North Country Dulcimer name. These dulcimers were a rather unique design with a floating bridge which straddles the fret board and sits on the top of the dulcimer. The dulcimers are long, 29 inches, but the VSL is 23 1/2 inches. I bought one this past weekend for $15.00. The nut was broken and I had to make a new one. Other than that I cleaned it up and put on new strings. Now it sings sweetly again. Here are some photos I took before working on it.

https://imgur.com/R1ocqa6

https://imgur.com/LBCWNYF

https://imgur.com/a52vstR

https://imgur.com/ZTxBrY8

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."


updated by @ken-longfield: 03/28/25 12:54:44PM
Ken Longfield
@ken-longfield
03/28/25 12:15:49PM
1,230 posts

Bonnie Carol Number 6 1973


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Thanks for sharing your good fortune with us Badger. I'm not sure what wood the body of dulcimer is made from, but it does have a walnut overlay on the fret board. I want to say the dulcimer is poplar, but I'm just not certain. Anyway, that dulcimer is something special. Enjoy playing it.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Robin Thompson
@robin-thompson
03/28/25 12:10:08PM
1,495 posts

Bonnie Carol Number 6 1973


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

You've got a real treasure in that Bonnie Carol!  I can't offer insight into the types of woods used yet know Bonnie's reputation as a luthier is stellar.  Enjoy that lovely dulcimer! 

Badger
@badger
03/28/25 11:25:14AM
2 posts

Bonnie Carol Number 6 1973


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Hi all,

Long time guitar player here thinking about getting into the dulcimer. I just had a nice dulcimer land in my lap here as my wife found it in a thrift store (actually got it from the guy in line to donate it before it was donated!) Looking into this instrument, it seems that Bonnie was a very well-respected player and luthier. I'd like to learn to play dulcimer now that I have one, and I was just wondering what you could tell me about it. For instance, what kind of wood is it made of? I've heard Bonnie used "exotic hardwoods"...maybe this is Koa or something like that? How would you suggest I clean it without damaging or altering the finish? Is this rare/collectible? Any idea how much a low production number Bonnie Carol like this would go for to a collector? Where should I get strings for it? 

Really appreciate any insights you guys have! Thanks! 

My images were too large to upload, so I put them here: https://imgur.com/a/332WTID


updated by @badger: 03/30/25 09:41:12AM
MargieS
@margies
03/28/25 10:08:34AM
2 posts

Ray Hunley 2009 #260 Solid Cherry


FOR SALE:instruments/music items/CDs/Wanted to Buy...

Hi, Michael. I’m sorry it has taken me a bit to get back to you. Trying to figure out how to respond. My number is 256-702-2244 if you would like to call or text about the dulcimer. I’m out of pocket but available after 10 this morning. Thanks!

Margie S

Michael G
@michael-g
03/27/25 11:12:11PM
1 posts

Ray Hunley 2009 #260 Solid Cherry


FOR SALE:instruments/music items/CDs/Wanted to Buy...

Hello, Michael G here. I’m in your neighborhood—I’m in Tennessee just north of Killen. I’m not familiar with the luthier, but I am a serious player and collector, and yours is a beautiful dulcimer! I’m interested.

Strumelia
@strumelia
03/27/25 09:14:28PM
2,328 posts

A Question about dulcimer popularity...


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

John, that's nice of you to recommend this site to new players. Thanks!  smile

John Pettreemusic
@john-petry
03/27/25 09:11:26PM
48 posts

A Question about dulcimer popularity...


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Perhaps "coincidence"...But the last 2 out of three dulcimers I've sold have gone to folks looking to start learning to play., in part because of that little segment on late night TV...

 I always recommend FOTMD to my new customers, it is truly a gem of a resource for anyone with an interest!

Dusty Turtle
@dusty
03/27/25 09:00:53PM
1,807 posts

A Question about dulcimer popularity...


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

If you judge by the number of new members joining FOTMD, the MD community is strong.muscle

MargieS
@margies
03/27/25 12:46:15PM
2 posts

Ray Hunley 2009 #260 Solid Cherry


FOR SALE:instruments/music items/CDs/Wanted to Buy...

Mr Ray custom made this dulcimer for me in March of 2009. It is a twin to his own personal dulcimer he played for many years. My hands are too small for a full sized model, and I would like this dulcimer to go to a serious player. It is solidly built with a rich sound.

Specs:  Signed. Interior label reads “Ray Hunley, 4820 Sierra Drive, Old Hickory, TN 37138”. Original strings. Extra frets. DAD tuning.

$350
Local pickup at or within reasonable distance to Florence, AL. We are in the NW corner of the state. I’m afraid I do not know enough to safely ship. Cash only please. Thank you. 🤗


B69F7ACE-B9C7-4501-B440-1B3C28043E9C.jpeg B69F7ACE-B9C7-4501-B440-1B3C28043E9C.jpeg - 299KB

updated by @margies: 03/27/25 12:50:38PM
Robin Thompson
@robin-thompson
03/26/25 04:24:30PM
1,495 posts

International Appalachian Dulcimer Day


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

This Saturday, 29 March, 2025-- the more countries which participate, the merrier!  Love of the Appalachian dulcimer has spread around the world.  party2  

Ken Longfield
@ken-longfield
03/24/25 10:05:19AM
1,230 posts

limberjack


Adventures with 'other' instruments...

That is a very nice gift that Glen gave you Jim. Enjoy it. 

Dusty, that limberjill is delightful. I'm sure you've had fun playing it.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Dusty Turtle
@dusty
03/24/25 02:01:02AM
1,807 posts

limberjack


Adventures with 'other' instruments...

That's such a nice gesture on Glen's part, Jim. I love the vest!

Several years ago I lent a stranger a dulcimer at a dulcimer festival. The next year at that same festival he showed up with a limberjack for me. Or should I say limberjill .

Jim Yates
@jim-yates
03/24/25 01:06:02AM
67 posts

limberjack


Adventures with 'other' instruments...

I was admiring my friend Glen's limberjack at a festival and a few months later, he showed up with one he'd made for me.


Limberjack from Glen.jpg Limberjack from Glen.jpg - 97KB
Robin Thompson
@robin-thompson
03/21/25 07:00:21AM
1,495 posts

International Appalachian Dulcimer Day


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

That's funny how the AI bot referenced you to tell you about you, @nate .

I've been hashtagging International Appalachian Dulcimer Day on fb for a few years now and think somebodies got "it" in the hashtag game.  dulcimer

Nate
@nate
03/21/25 12:06:50AM
390 posts

International Appalachian Dulcimer Day


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I fully agree @dusty . I couldn't help but laugh at the idea of an AI bot reading MY post and then giving me misleading information about my own instrument krazy

Dusty Turtle
@dusty
03/20/25 11:36:56PM
1,807 posts

International Appalachian Dulcimer Day


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

That's hilarious, @nate.  It certainly demonstrates the limitations of information from AI.  On the one hand, it found your information here. On the other hand, it fails to recognize how unique your builds are, implying lots of "enthusiasts" are experimenting the way you do.

Nate
@nate
03/20/25 11:11:32PM
390 posts

Silicone Free Furniture Polish


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Dusty, I've heard a lot of good feedback about Feed-N-Wax. I asked because I happened to already have this can of furniture polish, and was hoping to find a use for it. I have used it a few times on my dulcimers, and the orange oil does a good job at keeping the wood vitalized, for lack of a better word.

Dusty Turtle
@dusty
03/20/25 10:13:28PM
1,807 posts

Silicone Free Furniture Polish


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Neither of the two products I use occasionally--Howard Feed-N-Wax and Old English Lemon Oil--contain silicone.  I have to admit, though, that I didn't know that until I looked it up. Those products were recommended to me years ago and they both seem to work well.

Nate
@nate
03/20/25 08:58:23PM
390 posts

Silicone Free Furniture Polish


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

robert schuler:

Tung oil works well when applied really thin on fingerboards. I go to great pains to keep all things silicone away from my work benches. If in doubt rub any suspicious wood surface with acetone. There are many fine paste waxes that are silicone free...Robert 

 
Thank you for the insight, Robert.
Nate
@nate
03/20/25 08:23:12PM
390 posts

International Appalachian Dulcimer Day


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Dusty Turtle:

We made it into the AI algorithms!  That constitutes success in my book, even if the information being spewed by the bots is factually incorrect.


 

More than a few times, I have searched topics that relate to dulcimer, and have gotten AI autofill that is presenting information from, and referencing my own forum posts on this website.ROTFL laughlaugh

This one stands out to me
Aqua.PNG
updated by @nate: 03/20/25 08:23:33PM
Nate
@nate
03/20/25 03:24:56PM
390 posts

Lute Dulcimer


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Thank you very much Ken for this comprehensive answer. The Horstobel Sachs system has always been hard for me to wrap my head around, but what you typed is super easy to grasp. Would any discontinuous fretboard then be considered a lute? 

cairney
@steve-c
03/19/25 02:09:48PM
92 posts

International Appalachian Dulcimer Day


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Dusty,

That is hilarious.  But you're right, somehow IADD is becoming a thing.  I'm trying to promote on Mountain Dulcimer Lore.  Maybe, if we keep posting and talking about it the dulcimer world and maybe beyond will take notice...now let us lobby for a dulcimer postage stamp.

Ken Longfield
@ken-longfield
03/19/25 01:30:13PM
1,230 posts

Lute Dulcimer


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

That's true Dusty. What was it that guy in England said, "A rose by any other name will smell as sweet?" Perhaps a dulcimer by any other name still has a sweet sound.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Dusty Turtle
@dusty
03/19/25 12:29:11PM
1,807 posts

Lute Dulcimer


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Let's remember that the distinction between the lute family and the zither family is based on organology, which classifies instruments based on the way they make sound (technically its the Hornbostel-Sachs system)

There are certainly other ways to classify them: how they are played, what they sound like, the purpose of the music (dance, worship), etc.  After all, in terms of organology, the piano and the organ are completely unrelated instruments, the former a string instrument and the latter a wind instrument.  But most of us see them as similar because they are played in a similar manner.  In terms of how you play the instrument, the mountain dulcimer is much closer to lutes than to zithers such as the hammered dulcimer.

Ken Longfield
@ken-longfield
03/19/25 12:06:51PM
1,230 posts

Lute Dulcimer


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Well, Nate, I'll attempt to answer your question about the instrument in the photo using the Horbostel-Sachs classification system for musical instruments. In this system there are five categories of instruments. The one in the photo is clearly a chordophone; it has strings. There are five types of chordophones; bows, harps, lutes, lyres, and zithers. I think we can agree it is not a bow, harp, or lyre which leaves us with or question; lute or zither. If the fret board can be detached from the box (resonator) and still make a sound, it is a zither. If no sound can be heard after the two are separated it is a lute. Think of it this way. If you take the neck off of a guitar, ukulele, or mandolin you can no longer strum the strings thus you have no sound. (You could hit the box and make a sound like a drum, but then it is no longer a chordophone.) If you remove the box (resonator) in your photo, you can still get a sound from the fret board (although muted), so it is a zither. Further refinement of the definition is difficult in this system although it likely would go under the category stick zither.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Strumelia
@strumelia
03/19/25 11:28:05AM
2,328 posts

Lute Dulcimer


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

This is an age old discussion that has been going on for far longer than the 30 or so years I've been into dulcimers.
Is the "neck/fretboard extending beyond the sound box" what defines a mountain dulcimer? Or is it the diatonic fret arrangement? Or is it the number of strings or the double melody course? Body depth and shape? The tuning? We've debated all this forever (in a good way)  :)   With so many tweaks possible in various combos, at what specific point does an instrument change from being a zither, a dulcimer, a lute, a cigar box guitar, etc. Is a guitar with diatonic frets a dulcimer?  Is a mtn dulcimer with a calfskin resonator insert a banjo? Is a stick dulcimer really a dulcimer?- if so, is it still a 'dulcimer' if it's chromatically fretted, or not fretted at all?

"What makes something a dulcimer" has always been a complex question, especially when so many hybrid instruments come on the scene. Often it just comes down to "what to call this".

But there's no 'rule book' -except the generally accepted definitions of musical instrument categories (lute family, zither family) that we've already cited. People can declare what is or isn't a mtn dulcimer til the cows come home, but often it comes down to opposing opinions.

Dusty Turtle
@dusty
03/19/25 11:27:55AM
1,807 posts

International Appalachian Dulcimer Day


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

We made it into the AI algorithms!  That constitutes success in my book, even if the information being spewed by the bots is factually incorrect.

I feel like Steve Martin in The Jerk when he saw his name in the phonebook:

a man is holding a dog in front of a blue van and says i 'm somebody now .


updated by @dusty: 03/19/25 11:28:33AM
Robin Thompson
@robin-thompson
03/19/25 10:50:40AM
1,495 posts

International Appalachian Dulcimer Day


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Indeed, we did-- what a bunch of troublemakers we are!  sun

  5