Forum Activity for @steve104c

Susie, Thank you. I didn’t mean to ruffle any feathers when I explained that you can’t sell your handmade flutes as “Native American Flutes “ if you are not Native American. I do own a High Spirit flute. I have many flutes from Erik the Flutemaker. I met him at the Texas Renaissance Festival many years ago. I have a McSpadden dulcimer from Mountain View, Arkansas and a Dulcimer Factory dulcimer that was made in Kerrville, Texas. Martin D-35, Taylor nylon string, Martin ukulele. Several Harmony ukulele’s.Deering Goodtime 2 banjo, Deering banjo/ukulele w/ resonator. A Martin Jr. Cajun accordion, met him and he signed my accordion . 2- autoharps( Oscar Schmidt), Cooper bodhran. Many Horner harmonicas. Skinny Bass foot drum. Yamaha electric piano. Fender Strat. Thumb harp. Wood tongue drum. Did I miss anything? Oh yea, several Irish tin flutes. You can say ,” I love my music.” It is true that “ Music soothes the beast “. It hurts me when someone butchers a song. Bob Dylan is not a very good singer, but he has written some of best songs, ever. I believe he is a genius when it comes song writing. I sorry, I’m just rattling on and on. When it comes to music, I could play all day. I go to several jam sessions a month. Time to go. Steve.

Thank you for that explanation. I see that on the HS website. I understand and agree with the distinction.  That said, I think in causal conversation, when we speak of our flutes, there's no harm in calling the HS flutes, Native American Flutes. I know I do. I'm thankful for such builders who are responsible and respectful and build quality flutes. In doing so, they are still honoring the Native Americans, the instrument, and the music.

Thanks again!

That is super cool Salt. I couldn't find one that was Hupa or Wiyot, but this Yurok flute may have been similar to the ones my ancestors heard, since there was a lot of cultural overlap.

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I hadn't heard of the

"Aquila 11B red series" but the product description says "Nylgut made firstly elastic and then added with red copper powder in order to increase the density to about twice that of standard white Nylgut"

which I found really interesting. Id be curious to know whether they feel like metal or plastic to the touch.

If you are going with nylon strings, I really would recommend Nylgut brand, their set for "classic" banjo. Dulcimers and banjos have similar scale lengths and sometimes tune to the same octaves and notes. I've used both steel and various gut and nylon strings on all my banjos for about 25 years. I've found that on banjos, other brands and types of nylon strings feel overly bouncy, take a long time to 'settle', and tend to break too often. The worst in my experience were fishing line, and the Aquila nylons. The Nylgut strings have a nice tension, settle within hours, and very seldom break for me. They were a game changer.

Whenever I change steel strings I manually stretch each one repeatedly over the first few hours of play, re-tuning with each stretch.  It helps them "settle" faster.  I assume the same technique would work with nylon.

Nate,  I found a catalog that has pic's of a variety of Native flutes by tribe.......you and others might be interested in those pics, especially if you want to make your own.

https://flutopedia.com/fcat_old.htm

I'm now on the "Aquila 11B Classic Banjo Normal Tension Red Series" and I'm really liking them. They sound and feel about right to me. The only downside so far is they take a few days to settle into their tuning.

Pretty much.........I think the last paragraph of the Smithsonian article link sums it up..............I always found that the Drumhop site with the songs that each tribe used and the stories behind them were fascinating to hear.  Granted it can be a pick tricky to use but well worth the effort.

Thanks for sharing salt, these are cool. To my sensibilities, different tribes had different flutes and "Native American flute" is just a general term for one style of flute that some tribes made, which has been adapted into a western instrument.. Obviously pre-colombian flutes were not in A440, so that makes most "native American flutes" I've seen "cultural appropriation." The flutes I've seen in tribal museums, as well as the Musical Instrument Museum were often visually and functionally very different from each other.  If it were built traditionally, I would expect the name of a tribe and not just "native American." 

And Irene, I really look forward to seeing that dulcimer!

A great site too:

https://drumhop.com/music.php?page=97

Here is another link for your consideration...........

https://drumhop.com/music.php?page=135

Note the warble......characteristic of indigenous music of long ago.

The is a good read.......I've played these flutes for many a year and own a number of them made by Michael Graham Allen with whom I've been in contact many times over those years. MGA is a super musician, true gentleman and superb craftsman.   The issue is not the design of the flute so much as it is people appropriating another peoples culture and claiming it is something that it is not.  If you research native flute music that was recorded by real indigenous players from long ago you would immediately see the difference.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/blogs/smithsonian-center-folklife-cultural-heritage/2021/11/09/north-american-indigenous-flute-kevin-locke/

https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/49186/do-we-have-any-authentic-native-american-flute-music-from-the-18th-century-or-ea

Dear Nate, you are so very right in your words here.   I learned how to make a native drum from a native that was living in Hawaii a few  years back.  I just loved it and came home and knowing that I'm not Native America and so I did some research on Celtic drums, and I am Celtic.............I started making Celtic drums and I've sold a few.   I also have 2 High Spirit Native style flutes and ordered a drone flute from another maker that doesn't pretend he's a native....I've had a lot of fun with these flutes.  I do have a full Navajo "sister" friend that introduced me to the Native flutes.   We've been able to play dulcimer and flute, harp and flute, and of course, drum and flute.   I just finished a bowed psaltery for her and we're going to play more weird combinations of our instruments.  Sooooooooooo fun. It's late at night, but I need to post some photos of the teardrop dulcimer that I made in Hawaii last February.  It's all out of Bible woods.  fretboard out of Olive wood, top Cedar of Lebanon, sides & back Koa (Acacia wood of the Bible).   It really has a unusual  tone and I need to know where I can get some bone for the bridge.   I have some hard wood there, but I think it will do better with a bone bridge.  I need to learn how to attach photos again, but it's too late at night and I'm going to bed.   aloha, irene

That is interesting Steve. It seems pretty silly to me but this is America and we do love to sue. As I was trying to look into it more, it seems like the native American flute got loopholed into being included as an "American Indian craft" just due to its name, since the instrument was called such for quite a while before that law was written. Still silly to me though, that someone would see the descriptor "native American" and directly assume that it must have been made by a real one, let alone it happening so often they passed a law lol. The flute herself does not know or care whether she is native American or native American style. Either way that law is interesting.

Nate

If you look on High Spirits Flutes, you will see he calls them Native American Style flutes. Years ago the American Indians sued the people selling “Native American Flutes” when the person making the flutes had no Native American heritage. Now when selling a “Native American Flute” it must have been made by a “Native American “ or if not by an “American Native “, it must be sold as “Native American Style “. “Native American Flute Style “ donates the type. “ Native American Flute “ donates it is an official “ Native American”  made flute. If you are making flutes and selling them as “American Native Flutes” and you are not full or part  “Native American “ you are deceiving your customers and are libel. You must label your flutes as “Native American Style Flutes”. This is not BS. Steve B. Next time before you reply, check out your info. and you won’t have to eat your words.

I often use mandolin strings on my dulcimer, which are phosphor bronze. At my local music shop, they are only a dollar more than the pack of dulcimer strings but come with 2 of each gauge. They are basically the same gauge as dulcimer strings, and the extra 2 thickest strings can be tuned a fifth lower than the root note, so with one pack you could string up a 4 string dulcimer Dadd and a 3 string dulcimer AEa, or whatever tunings suit your VSL. 

Nate

If so, I'm in big trouble!

Steve, I believe "native American flute" just denotes the origin of the style of the flute, not that specific flute. To me it's a bit like saying you have to be French to build a French horn, English to build an English concertina, or Appalachian to build an Appalachian dulcimer.

Some people might actually agree with that last one

Jacob, I am vey sorry to burst your bubble. I have a High Spirit flute. They are not “Native American Flutes”. The man that builds those flutes is not a Native American and thus he can not call his flutes “Native American Flutes “.  He makes really nice flutes. Sorry! I believe he calls them Native American Style flutes. Steve.

Funny thing about cobalt and gold strings: I'm also allergic to gold and cobalt. Apparently when you combine gold with titanium dioxide (found in sunscreen) you can be allergic to it. The patch test on my back was a non-itchy red postage stamp for a year, I kid you not.

I don't have to be wicked careful about any of these allergies--it took a week of consistent practice to remember I have the metal allergy, and then it was just a bit of irritation on the fingers (like mild poison ivy). 

Silver-plated should be good, though. I'll likely end up with them, once I finish a tour of non-metal options.

In general an instrument built for steel strings will have less volume and sustain when using nylon strings. This is because nylon strings are typically at a much lower tension, and dulcimers made for nylon strings are typically lighter, in order to be more responsive. The strings will eventually stop stretching and will keep their tune. If youre not happy with the tone you might be best off sticking to metal strings. I do like silver coated strings, as well as plain steel. I dont know much about nickel allergies and how careful you have to be, but I also used cobalt strings one time and gold coated strings another and found the tone nice for both.

Update: I've put baritone ukulele strings on my dulcimer. It's playable. Much less sustain. I'm not thrilled with how long it takes nylon strings to settle in--it feels like I have to retune every time I pick it up.

I'll have to double-check the package, but I think the strings were D'Addario Clear Nylon (EJ65B).

I'll live with these strings for a few more days, then try out another set I got.

Thanks a ton to both of you for the positive encouragement! So far I've been keeping the headstock tuner turned on while I practice scales, so I can adjust. Ive never been great at knowing if I'm in tune so this will be a big challenge for me.

I play the fiddle and feel that playing the dulcimer has helped me play it..I don't play many chords..just melody string and drones.. so having a lot of fiddle tunes in my head it seems to be easy to find the note interval on the fiddle..  just my experience..of course intonation is a bit tough but tuner helps...i find that just going for it without timidity is best..good luck and fmhave fun

Good call, I forgot about the frets. I'll test them with that nickel-detecting liquid that turns pink when it touches nickel.

My full-size dulcimer uses the black coated strings from folkcraft and they're pretty nice.

I found a good bit of discussion about nickel allergy on guitar player websites. I found many alternatives including plain stainless steel strings (although some may contain small amounts of nickel). One item that folks often did.not consider is that the frets on the instrument often contain nickel. For someone with a nickel allergy the frets may need to be replaced.

A consideration for strings is to use coated strings like Elixirs although after a while the coating will wear off.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

I'm curious how this goes, @grysbok.  A woman who comes to my local dulcimer club also has a metal allergy. I have encouraged her to try nylon strings, but so far she just plays wearing gloves and a face mask.

Please keep us posted.  I fear the dulcimer will not sound as nice with nylon strings (those octave dulcimers can chime like little bells!), but given your allergy you don't really have a choice.  My hope is that it will still sound decent.

I'm thinking about swapping my octave dulcimer over to nylon strings. Now that I've started practicing regularly, I've remembered I have a nickel allergy. I figure nylon strings will let me just sidestep the whole messiness of finding nickel-free strings.

My instrument's vibrating string length is 19 inches. I aim to tune in DAD, an octave above standard.

Any words of warning? I know it'll likely be quieter, I'm cool with this. I also know the strings will be a different diameter, so my bridge and nut may need to be replace. Happily, they aren't glued in and I have

• spare walnut board
• a fine-tooth saw
• a dremel, and
• some gumption
• no restraint with regard to starting new projects

On order:

• baritone ukulele strings,
• treble set of nylon guitar strings
• set of silver-plated steel strings (as backup)

I'm not too worried about achieving a certain sound, I just want to have fun plucking around. The dulcimer feels like an anarchy instrument--there's no wrong way to be a dulcimer (and now I want a peanut butter cup.)

Good luck on your fiddling adventure... (you already know we are Fans of Nate and all his endeavors!)

Being married to a wonderful fiddler, I know what a challenge it is to learn to fiddle and not sound like a dying cat. I second what Dusty said but would refine it say it likely takes more like three years to not sound horrible. HOWEVER!- you being NATE you might well take to fiddling like a duck to water.

Keep us posted and don't be afraid to post some early clips of your progress.  We can take it, scritchy-scratchies and all! 

Ken, I've become a bit of an instrument hoarder and I probably own more instruments than anyone could master in a lifetime, so I get what you mean. The fiddle is one that I feel more motivation for than other instruments so I finally bought myself a beginner model. I am hoping some stuff I learned on mandolin can transfer over

Nate

I took violin lessons when I was in 5th and 6th grades and then stopped when I started 7th grade. Sometimes I think it would be fun to start up again, but then I realize that I already have more instruments than I have time to play them all. Over the years I've had a few violins come through my hands and I get the itch. Cleaning out a closet the other day my discovered another violin. I didn't know it was in there. I'm not going to start playing. Really, we need to pass it on to someone who will. Maybe I'll just take it out of the case and see what shape it is in. Well, let me tighten up the bow and see how it sounds. I'm not going to play that violin. Maybe I'll just fiddle with it a little bit.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Have fun fiddling!  One nice thing about fiddling is you can be going along quite nicely and then you're not.  

Haha I like that dusty. I must be a fast learner because it only took me about 30 seconds to be bad at it

The piano is easy. Push a button and a nice, clean tone comes out.  The fiddle is tough. You have to practice for a year just to be bad at it.

Good luck!

Ive just started learning fiddle! It's the one instrument that Ive always wished I was really good at, if I could pick one. Guess it's finally time to get that ball rolling! 

Nate

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Shooter, I built a cigar box guitar tuned DAD before I built any dulcimers. To me a 3 string CBG is the same as a chromatic strumstick. Cigar box guitars led me to building dulcimers, and I still like building cigar box dulcimers a lot. It's all a lot of fun

PS I recommend that new mandolin players start with 1 string per course while learning the chords, then add in the second string once you have the shapes down. Those strings can really shred up your fingertips and limit the amount of time you can practice when you're first starting, which makes a lot of people burn out on Mando 

Nate

This maybe a little of topic but since I saw some of us playing playing accordion/concertina maybe I should share this short article.:https://medium.com/@cassidybole0712/maintenance-and-care-of-concertinas-9a2ed8a86ec7

I don't own a Ron Gibson dulcimer, but I've played two.  One was a Barbara Allen baritone of which I posted a video fingerpicking a quick medley .  The other was a used Jenny Lind model that I encountered in a music store. I played a couple of tunes on it and went back the next day to buy it but was too late; it was gone.

Ron's dulcimers look and sound great.  His prices are very reasonable for the quality of instrument.

Hey Lorilee. I actually just received my 6 string Baritone from Ron a few weeks ago. I love it. His prices are very fair. The workmanship is beautiful. He is so easy to work with. The sound of my baritone is deep and rich. Because his prices are so good, don't cheat yourself out of a couple of upgrades since this will last a lifetime.

Mine is all walnut with gold Grover tuners and bone nut and bridge.

The picture is a little grainy and not great cause I took it at my office desk while I am working.

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