Forum Activity for @steven-stroot

Steven Stroot
@steven-stroot
02/18/22 12:25:29PM
34 posts

Bridge placement


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Thanks again to everyone for your welcoming comments and kind assistance!  Ken, based on your numbering of the frets, I have a 6 1/2 fret.  So, do I double the distance to the 6 1/2 fret to determine the location of the bridge?  Also, thanks for the helpful woodworking tips.      (I seem to be using "thanks" a lot on this site!)

Robin Thompson
@robin-thompson
02/18/22 09:15:51AM
1,525 posts

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@ken-longfield I know the teenage years can be difficult, at times, for all yet there'll be a lot of fun times, too.  Young people give me hope!  

Ken Hulme
@ken-hulme
02/18/22 08:18:30AM
2,157 posts

Bridge placement


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Stephen -- I numbered the frets for you on the attached version of your photo.

A good trick when doing glue up -- to avoid a lot of staining from squeeze out -- is to cover both sides of the joint with blue painters tape before applying the glue.  That's saved me hours of sanding!

FYI -- our glue of choice for all this is Titebond II or III.  They can be un-glued if necessary by the application of a heatgun/hair dryer to the glued joints for a few minutes.

It may be a fair bit of work, but you're learning a lot about how the dulcimer goes together, and what to do -- or not do -- when you decide to build one from scratch, or from your own kit.  

Good job getting the photos here, btw!


dulcimer marked.jpg dulcimer marked.jpg - 513KB
Steven Stroot
@steven-stroot
02/18/22 02:35:22AM
34 posts

Bridge placement


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

This doesn't really represent what I started with.  On one side the glue failed and the side "blew out", leaving a gap of about 1/4"between the side and the bottom.  I clamped and re-glued the side to the bottom and you can see I've sanded the side.  The dark area along the top/side glue joint is the remnants of the squeeze-out.  Also, the glue job on the fret board failed and about 1/2 of the fret board was loose from the top.  So, I also glued and clamped the fret board to the top.  The previous owner stained about 1/2 of the peg head a redwood color.  I've tried to darken the peg head and obscure the line where the red stain ended and the unstained wood began.  Maybe it's more work than it's worth to repair this instrument but it's a fun challenge.  In any case, I just have to re-stain the repaired side, apply a clear finish and re-install the tuners before stringing it up.  But which fret do I use to calculate the bridge position?


Dulcimer - 1.JPG Dulcimer - 1.JPG - 140KB
Ken Longfield
@ken-longfield
02/18/22 02:28:46AM
1,277 posts

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For sure Robin. My oldest grandson just turned 13 last week. Hence my comment.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Steven Stroot
@steven-stroot
02/18/22 12:41:31AM
34 posts

Bridge placement


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Thanks everyone for sharing your knowledge of "dulcimology".  I'll try to attach a photo to you so you can see what I have.  But, give me a little time... 

Robin Thompson
@robin-thompson
02/17/22 09:08:34PM
1,525 posts

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Ken Longfield:

Oh, no! Another teenager.


Ken


"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."



Oh, yes! hamster

Ken Longfield
@ken-longfield
02/17/22 08:14:36PM
1,277 posts

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Oh, no! Another teenager.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Robin Thompson
@robin-thompson
02/17/22 06:20:44PM
1,525 posts

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I love cake! cake   And I remember when FOTMD was just a baby. babycrawl

Richard Streib
@richard-streib
02/17/22 05:46:06PM
268 posts

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So July 29 will be FOTMD day around the world, Cake and goodies and lots of dulcimer music. Is it here yet?

Dusty Turtle
@dusty
02/17/22 05:05:44PM
1,828 posts

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Coincidentally, @lisa-golladay, I recently asked Strumelia that very question.  FOTMD first went live on July 29, 2009.  So this summer will be lucky 13 years!

Lisa Golladay
@lisa-golladay
02/17/22 04:10:06PM
109 posts

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We can make as many holidays as we want joyjoy

While we iron out the details of International Day of the Appalachian Dulcimer, let's start another celebration while we're at it. When did the FOTMD site go live?

I propose we celebrate FOTMD's Birthday! Cake for everybody!!

Rob N Lackey
@rob-n-lackey
02/17/22 02:15:52PM
420 posts

odd frets


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

As an aside, Michael Rugg told me in an email that he'd rather have the 0+ than any other 1/2 fret.  Indeed he said he preferred his instruments without a 6 1/2

Strumelia
@strumelia
02/17/22 08:13:43AM
2,375 posts

Bridge placement


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions


Don't just count the frets to find "the seventh fret". Do you know whether your dulcimer had a 6.5 fret or not? Not knowing can lead to a grave error when determining which fret is actually the 7th fret, in order to correctly place the bridge. Many older dulcimer kits like from the 1970s-80s did not have 6.5 frets added. More recent kits usually do have a 6.5 fret included.
If a total beginner is told to 'count your frets' then they'd likely be including both the 6 and the 6.5 fret when counting-  thus thinking that the repeat octave is the C#.  Most beginners don't yet know that they should count EITHER the 6 OR the 6.5 fret when 'counting frets'.. but not count both.  I think it really helps to look at a picture:

dadtuningchart.jpg


updated by @strumelia: 02/17/22 08:16:14AM
Ken Hulme
@ken-hulme
02/17/22 07:06:57AM
2,157 posts

Bridge placement


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Yeah, from that description it is what you called "a very low-end instrument".  The peghead as an extension of the fretboard is a dead giveaway.

The reason photos are good is that you mentioned some "minor damage", which might be hard for us to help with if we can't see the extent of the injury.  Do you have a 10-12 year old child/grandchild/neighbor kid who can help up upload a couple photos?


Steven Stroot
@steven-stroot
02/17/22 12:47:20AM
34 posts

Bridge placement


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Sorry, my tech skills are non-existent so it would take me a week to figure out how to send a photo.  The instrument is 3 strings, teardrop shape, looks like maple bottom, spruce top with two sound holes on either side of the fret board, mahogany (I think) sides.  Peg head is just an extension of the fret board.  Three guitar style tuners along one side of the peg head with the tuner shafts traversing three holes (3/4"?) drilled in line with the fret board, no nut, outside strings are guided by small brass nails just above the brass zero fret, strings secured to three brass nails at the end of the fret board.  

Robin Thompson
@robin-thompson
02/16/22 07:59:18PM
1,525 posts

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steve c.:

I think I’m over thinking all of this…lol..maybe I am thinking on a festival mentality and not thinking of just a day to say Hooray for our Dulcimer!

I like your suggestion, Steve, when you wrote, "So we can skip the formal recognition if you all like and just promote the weekend ourselves."  

Also, it is still important to me that folks from all over are part of this day of celebration just as folks from all over are part of FOTMD.  


updated by @robin-thompson: 02/16/22 07:59:50PM
cairney
@steve-c
02/16/22 07:37:36PM
96 posts

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Just checked and we cannot register a national day by designating a “last weekend.” It has to be a date for it to be a “day.”  So we can skip the formal recognition if you all like and just promote the weekend ourselves.  But we could see someone down the road establish a date as “Mountain Dulcimer Day” or something similar.  But if we do a really good job of promoting our day we can diminish the possibility of that happening.  The more we circulate this among all dulcimer circles, the better.  What would you say as to the criteria for the weekend?  Would we go with the beginning of the festival season?  


updated by @steve-c: 02/16/22 07:48:07PM
cairney
@steve-c
02/16/22 07:25:31PM
96 posts

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I’ll check to see if we can schedule something like the last Saturday of March and register it on the national calendar.

Ken Hulme
@ken-hulme
02/16/22 06:32:33PM
2,157 posts

odd frets


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Dan is correct, as always.  It is a fret usually found on chromatic fretboards, placed between the nut (which is sometimes called the 0 fret) and the 1st fret.  As a term,  0+ is less confusing than "1/2 fret"

Leo Kretzner
@leo-kretzner
02/16/22 05:51:48PM
36 posts

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As to name, I do not feel strongly about 'American dulcimer,' and Strumelia is correct that it's really too broad. I'm good with either 'mountain' or 'Appalachian' (regardless of pronunciation, lol). I think the terms 'lap' and 'fretted,' while accurate, are dry and descriptive, while 'mountain' and 'Appalachian' are evocative and descriptive.

I was feeling enthusiastic about MD and the banjo being the only two instruments indigenous to the US. I was also thinking of the large contingent of folks playing the 'Persian dulcimer' (lol) who might be inclined to say "Hey what about us?" so we need to be specific - and it seems like folks were thinking that way anyway.

Even so, many clubs and the Dulcimer Players News itself include both dulcimers, and I can well imagine some hammer-folks saying "Hey it should be about both dulcimers!" So, at least some of us will have to answer not just the question of 'why-that-date?' but also 'why-weren't-we-included?' To that, the native roots of our dulcimer seems a diplomatic and compelling comment. More compelling than "because the idea started on FotMD"!  More diplomatic than "b/c you drown us out," lol.

Now, as to date: Speaking to Dusty's concern, it often happens that 'celebrations' for an important date are moved to the closest weekend. So there's always the possibility of a set date falling where it might, but the subsequent weekend being the time for a local festival or jam or a special Zoom thing or etc. [Note this raises the separate question of what exactly to do to mark it. I say best to leave that to local communities and whatever folks want to make of it. But that thought argues for something in nice weather - versus, say, Dec 12, which I otherwise like.]

As for timing it to something less specific/more general - eg, first Saturday of Spring - I think that's still easy enough to remember, and let's look at the specifics:  First, 'vernal equinox' = spring equinox = first day of spring, and it is virtually always on March 20, 21, or 22 (Farmer's Almanac, almanac.com). This year it's Sunday, 3/20, and MD-Day would be the next Saturday, March 26. Similarly, it's usually going to be the last Saturday of March - another easy way to remember it 'roughly' and then be able to look up. Next year, 2023 (a possible 'first annual'), it would be Saturday, March 25.

Did you know that April 8 is National Banjo Day?? Rather nice that it would be close!

Oh, but would we have some other competition in late March?? Well, surprise or not, yes - but not significant: 3/26 is National Nougat and National Spinach Day. March 26 is National Lobster Newburg Day, Natl Medal of Honor Day, Natl Tolkien Reading Day and Natl Manatee Appreciation Day.  So we can celebrate by taking a manatee out for lobster Newburg...

Somehow I think we're okay with regard to that!! And obviously there are National Days for almost anything, so it's high time we get one for the mountain dulcimer!! 

Robin Thompson
@robin-thompson
02/16/22 05:30:24PM
1,525 posts

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I know I'm looking forward to the inaugural IADD! dulcimer1

John C. Knopf
@john-c-knopf
02/16/22 04:51:18PM
439 posts

convertible dulcimer?


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Why anybody would want a left-handed dulcimer is beyond me.  I've built one recently, though, by special request.

Ken Hulme
@ken-hulme
02/16/22 04:40:49PM
2,157 posts

convertible dulcimer?


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Yes, but most nuts and bridges have a high ridge with the notches filed in it, sio flipping really isn't an option.  Easiest to make a new nut and bridge, and then put new string on the other way around.

Skip
@skip
02/16/22 04:06:18PM
372 posts

convertible dulcimer?


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Turn them over and make new notches. If it uses a 0 fret just open the slots so he bass string fits will usually work since the nut is for lateral string positioning. Or, you could just play the bass string as the melody [DAd] like a friend did. 


updated by @skip: 02/16/22 04:11:29PM
Steven Stroot
@steven-stroot
02/16/22 03:13:52PM
34 posts

convertible dulcimer?


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions


You guys were so helpful with my last query, I hope you don't mind if I burden you with another question:

I see dulcimers advertised as "right handed" and "left handed".  Could a left handed dulcimer be converted to a right handed dulcimer by simply flipping over the nut and bridge?

marg
@marg
02/16/22 01:38:42PM
620 posts

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WOW, I'm impressed with all the responses. Good luck with the end result. 

cairney
@steve-c
02/16/22 01:21:19PM
96 posts

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I think I’m over thinking all of this…lol..maybe I am thinking on a festival mentality and not thinking of just a day to say Hooray for our Dulcimer!

Dan
@dan
02/16/22 01:03:34PM
201 posts

odd frets


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Lorilee:

What is a 0+ fret? Sounds like an "odd fret"! confusey




Chromatic fret between the nut and the Traditional 1st fret. 

Lorilee
@lorilee
02/16/22 11:41:10AM
19 posts

odd frets


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

What is a 0+ fret? Sounds like an "odd fret"! confusey

Skip
@skip
02/16/22 11:31:21AM
372 posts

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@richard-streib yes   Any date that is usually mild in both hemispheres.

Length of day/night [equinox] is irrelevant and is assuming everyone can, or will, take time figure out the right date. It's easy to mark a consistent date, or day, on a calendar. 

I'm really the right one to talk about dates [sarcastic],  I usually remember about an event the next day or forget about them entirely. confusey  

How about the last Saturday in March? It's not a normal work day and is early spring.


updated by @skip: 02/16/22 11:40:09AM
Dusty Turtle
@dusty
02/16/22 11:20:49AM
1,828 posts

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As someone who has many years of labor ahead before retirement, I would suggest that were we to pick a specific date, I would not be able to do anything special for International Dulcimer Day most years since I will be working.  That's why you won't see me at Kentucky Music Week or any of the fine dulcimer events that complain about not attracting younger people but still schedule themselves during the work week.   And if we choose a specific date, the question will always arise about why that date was chosen, which brings us full circle to the beginning of this conversation when a few of us suggested Jean's birthday.  It will be pretty lame if we have a date and no explanation for it. 

I think it important that we choose a Saturday.  If the first Saturday of spring seems too confusing to people (seriously?), then we should just choose perhaps the second (or third or first or fourth) Saturday of a particular month.  I suggested the spring because it is a celebratory time of year and marks the beginning of the festival season.  And unless you give up music for lent, I don't know why Dulcimer Day would conflict with that 6-week period of time. Maybe I'm missing something.


updated by @dusty: 02/16/22 11:24:53AM
Ken Longfield
@ken-longfield
02/16/22 10:44:44AM
1,277 posts

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The vernal equinox can occur on March 19, 20, or 21. The last possible day for the celebration of Easter is April 25. Any date we pick before April 25 will put International Appalachian Dulcimer Day during the Christian season of Lent occasionally. While I don't think this should deter us, it is just something of which we should be aware. Am I understanding correctly that it should be a specific day rather than the last Saturday in March or the second Saturday in April?

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Robin Thompson
@robin-thompson
02/16/22 09:42:24AM
1,525 posts

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I think setting a day tied to Spring equinox would have folks looking at their calendars and planning.  Think about Easter, for example.

PS-Our friends in the southern hemisphere would, of course, be celebrating autumnal equinox.   


updated by @robin-thompson: 02/16/22 11:17:05AM
cairney
@steve-c
02/16/22 09:39:12AM
96 posts

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A vernal equinox is a cool idea but cannot be set up as an official calendar date.  It will be hard to get it recognized as “a special day.”  I think folks in the dulcimer world might prefer to say, “We celebrate International Appalachian Dulcimer Day on March 20th!” As opposed to “ We celebrate International Appalachian Dulcimer Day on the Vernal Equinox!”  Really? Just when will that be next year?  Crickets… 

Dan
@dan
02/16/22 09:30:12AM
201 posts

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...second Saturday in April......

Robin Thompson
@robin-thompson
02/16/22 08:48:21AM
1,525 posts

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Here in our old coal mining village life moves pretty slow.  And being a bit of an old-fashioned girl (now old lady), I love the idea of tying the event to the vernal equinox! flower  

cairney
@steve-c
02/16/22 07:23:00AM
96 posts

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I do like Dusty’s idea of a Spring date, but I also agree with Richard on a set day.  But think of this…Aaron Copeland’s great masterpiece Appalachian Spring was based on the Shaker tune Simple Gifts..played by many dulcimer players around the world.  To me it speaks to what the Appalachian dulcimer is all about.  The dulcimer is a simple gift, easy to play and yet whether you play traditional noter drone or fancy finger picking with chords..the instrument just sounds wonderful!  I never thought of it but our beloved dulcimer is just that, a gift.

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