Forum Activity for @don-grundy

Hi there @sal-monella !  I posted a response to your beginner book discussion in the General Forum, where I mention some of the factors you'll encounter if playing your stick dulcimers with mountain dulcimer tab books, here:

https://fotmd.com/forums/forum/general-mountain-dulcimer-or-music-discussions/36238/beginners-dulcimer-book#r36239

Welcome to the site! 

Greetings Sal!  :D

I know you mentioned an interest in learning fingerpicking style at some point.  But have you decided yet whether to begin playing the dulcimer in chording style or in traditional noter-drone style?  There are learning books for each style of playing- fingerpicking, chord, and noter.

 I would love to suggest that you join a couple of the Groups on this site which will have very specific discussions for their Group subject focus, such as Beginner players, stick dulcimers, fingerpicking, chord playing style, etc etc.  You'll see all kinds of great discussions in the focus groups that will probably help you decide where you want to focus first!  It's easy to click the Join button on any of the group main pages, and just as easy to UNjoin them later if you like. You need to JOIN a group in order to see and read its full discussions and to post in it.  If you have not joined a group yet, you'll only see the first post of each discussion.

Do you have only stick dulcimers so far, and not a lap dulcimer?  If you have just stick instruments with dulcimer fret patterns, then when you use dulcimer learning books intended for 'normal' lap-situated dulcimers you'll have to make some adaptations when trying to follow the book tab. That's because strumsticks have their strings reversed from the usual dulcimer setup. Lap dulcimers have the high melody string(s) closest to the player and the bass string furthest away from you. When holding a stick strummer in your lap with the peghead to your left as normal, the bass string will be closest to your body.  This is the reverse of 'regular' mountain dulcimers and will confuse you a lot if you're following a tab book with chord fingering charts!

So unless you get a 'normal' lap dulcimer, you'll need to figure out how you will handle this issue when following mountain dulcimer TAB. Of course not everyone chooses to use tab, but chord charts will still present a problem if you want to play in chord style on a stick instrument- everything will need to be either mentally or physically reversed).

All that said, depending on what your goals are you can find great ways to play and love playing your stick dulcimers if that's what you want to do.  In that case definitely join our Stick Group and start posting questions there on how to adjust mountain dulcimer learning materials to successfully apply to strumsticks, without losing your mind!   lol!   ;D

If you do get a regular mountain dulcimer to start out with, then I suggest you stay with that while learning the basics, especially if using books, because switching back and forth to strumsticks will certainly be confusing to you while just starting out playing.

Welcome!

Hi @Silverstrings.  When I first started playing the dulcimer I played with a double melody string because, well, that's how my first dulcimer was sold to me.  I was advised by more experienced players to remove one of them because it would be "easier" to play with just three strings, but I arrogantly ignored that advice, thinking that since I had played mandolin and have a 12-string guitar, the double strings would not be a problem for me. One day when putting on new strings I decided to leave the extra melody string off to see what it would be like, and I immediately knew I liked the sound better.  A single melody string just makes for such a cleaner and less cluttered sound.  I never put a second melody string on a dulcimer after that moment.

There are other benefits to a single melody string which you point to: it is easier to perform hammer-ons and pull-offs.  And it is nearly impossible to bend strings well with a double melody since the two strings do not bend at exactly the same rate.

Luckily, you don't have to make this decision permanently.  Switch to a single melody string, play for a while, and see how you like it.  If you don't you can always put the extra string back on.

I understand that noter/drone players enjoy zinging up and down the fretboard, and supposedly the double melody strings create a better balance between the melody and the drones.  But if you fret across all the strings, using a single melody string actually creates that balance since all strings play the melody more or less equally.

If you search through the past discussion here at FOTMD, you will find that several address this very issue.  Here is one of them .  (And looking through that old discussion, I realize that I posted nearly the same comments I added here.  At least I'm consistent.)

So, everyone in my dulcimer group plays with 3 strings. I have resisted removing one of the melody strings. I thought the sound would be better with 4. However, after 8 months of playing I am doing more flat picking, hammer on’s and pull offs.  Pro’s and cons to removing the extra melody string is encouraged. Thanks!

Thanks Terry!

Sal- monella

In answer to your question about a good dulcimer learning book.

Beyond the Basics, by Linda W Collins, of Cabin Hill Music.

www.cabinhillmusic.com

A great great learning tool by video, are Strumelia’s old videos.  She has posted many learning videos that are very valuable to beginners.  Were to me, 8 years ago, anyway.

Good luck in your hopefully amazing journey.

Terry

Welcome Sal-Monella!     Interesting handle you have there.

There really is no consensus as to  best book to learn any aspect of dulcimer. 

Realize, of course that there is a big difference between playing one of those stick instruments and playing a true dulcimer.  For starters the strings are 'backwards'.  Also unless you lay that stick flat on your lap, no dulcimer playing instructions are going to make any sense.  

Howdy,

As you can see by my profile, I'm new to the dulcimer. I have made a couple stick dulcimers and a Strumbly, but really haven't learned to play one. That is what I am commencing to do by joining FOTMD. The thing I was wondering was how can I search, or is the info already out there, about the memberships idea of the "BEST" beginners book for learning dulcimer. I believe that I will want to take a stab at finger picking at some point in time as well. So maybe a book that has some sort of progression in that direction is what I'm looking for.

Thank you in advance for any help with this topic.

-Sal

Currently I have dozens of favorites, but three of the top would be Ashoken Farewell, Elk River Blues, and Sandy River Belle.

!!! Thanks, Robin!

Strumelia, this is something of thread dredge.

I guess I should apologise for not being active on the site but I have been having just too much fun in the workshop. I have now completed two mountain dulcimers a hurdy gurdy, a crwth, a nordic lyre, two bowed psalteries plus several ukuleles and flutes and am now turning my attention to a rebec, which is how I stumbled across this thread.

I have the plans from Rutgers University and am mulling over whether to build the soprano or the tenor rebec and having built two tenor ukes I do prefer the more mellow tones. Are you still playing your rebec and with your experience do you have a preference for either the soprano or tenor models? The Rutgers one is a soprano and I would have to scale up the plans to get the extra scale length required but this is no real problem.

Rhys

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I used to sing this song when I sang and played guitar in a pizza parlor in Canada when my husband was in premed school.  I was paid more in 1/2 hour of singing then working all day.....I just loved this song, but was not my life....being so happily married and with our new baby girlie.  That was 54 years ago.   sigh....time flys.  but my love for that tune never wains.   I sang many of Joan Baez's songs.  I loved all of the Child Ballads...and old folks songs. aloha, irene

Pretty Saro is definitely one of them when I first heard Iris Dement sing it

Strumella, the trouble is that I live in Canada and I am now on disability,  the cheapest cardboard kits are about 50 to 60 US.

With the exchange and shipping it does not make sense when I will want a wood one much sooner than later. This is why it would not be feasible for me to get a wood one as a kit till'  late winter;  and that is scraping every penny.

Sure, I can get Appeldorn or Hora for about 200  Can.    I will try and build one first. And I know this is not fleeting because I actually know how to pronounce Appalachia correctly as opposed to pronouncing the third syllable and making it sound like AY.    This in  itself should be a good start to a   YOU KNOW YOU LOVE THE MOUNTAIN DULCIMER WHEN.......

Ah, Ah,   Ronald 

Yes Dusty, I just saw Chris Thile yesterday as a matter of fact on You Tube play Silver Dagger live.

Also,  check out Ebony Buckle sing it on You Tube it is from an excerpt from Inspector George Gently episode a few years back she is as beautiful as she sings  to boot. George Gently takes place in the 1960's.  those of us that remember the 60's will find anomalies such as lighting a match with the strike plate in the back of the match pack, they did not change this to the back till mid 70's  I know...I lit full packs of them many time;  probably why they changed it to the back..

Ronald,   everything double spaced when you strike enter

That's a good question, @RonD.  I'm surprised that tune isn't more common in the dulcimer community.

I did find this noter/drone version by Cecil Moody , but the melody seems to be a simplified version that misses out on the more eerie, minor-sounding parts that you here in other versions by Joan Baez or, most recently, Chris Thile .

I also found some lyrics sheets with chords , which are (happily) in the key of D.  I haven't worked through the whole tune yet, but at least the beginning can be played on a dulcimer tuned DAA or DAd.  If you play noter/drone, tune DAA, since the melody begins on that A note for "Don't" and then moves up to E (either 4 on an A string or 1 on a D string) for "songs."

I may work out a version of this tune over the next few days.  If so, I'll post again.

I too recommend you get one of those cheap but great to play cardboard dulcimer kits.  You can save your money for a good dulcimer (or build one) later this winter like you planned.  Meanwhile, you'll have a fine inexpensive dulcimer to play right away, and you can use it for camping or travel later on if you get or build a higher quality one. Having an instrument that you don't have to worry about losing or damaging is a great thing!

But the real question is... Is your goal right now to build a dulcimer?, or is it to get started playing a dulcimer?  You can start with one and do the other later, or vice versa. But not both at the same time.  ;D

Once you own or put together a cardboard kit, you'll understand all the various things that everyone is trying to convey to you right now... because you have experience in guitar/chromatic setups.  In my opinion, once you have a dulcimer in hand it'll all become clear pretty quickly, in a way that's much better than long drawn out explanations and theory.   :)

For me, it actually changes as I learn new songs. I have so many. Currently, I'd say:

My Heart Will Go On (the Titanic song)

Goodbye is Not Forever (Bing Futch)

This Old Guitar (John Denver)

Three???!!! Who can only have three! Well, a few of my favorite ballads are:

Rothesay Bay, Ca' The Yowes, Caller O'u, The Gairdner And The Plooman, The False Lover Won Back, The Maid Gaed To The Mill, Maggie Lauder, The Golden Skein, Today, Believe Me If All Those Endearing Young Charms, Lass From The Low Countree

Another suggestion is to get a kit.   Just type in "mountain dulcimer kit" in google and many come up to choose from.   I've heard that cardboard kits are also good to learn on.  Do your own research and see what one calls your name.   IT'S A JOY TO BUILD YOUR OWN DULCIMER.   After you build one, then...............oh oh..........you'll build another.   aloha, irene

If you want to build, join our Dulcimer Making Group, and we can guide you along the way.  The most critical bit is getting the fret spacing right.  There are good fret spacing calculators that will give you the diatonic frets for any VSL.   Since you're into re-sawing, you'll want boards that will be about 1/8".  Unlike guitars, dulcimers have almost no braces.  The fretboard itself is a giant eternal brace from one end to the other.  You'll want that fretboard about 1.5" wide (or a bit less) and about 3/4" tall (for finger clearance).  A simple elliptical shape is a good place to start, but if you enjoy bending thin wood, the jigs for more complex shapes are easy to make.  Here's the jig which I made recently for my interpretation of a North Carolina Holly Leaf shaped dulcimer that originated around the time of the Civil War.  The side planks here are 1/8" maple.

Does anyone know of a recording on line of someone playing silver dagger on the dulcimer

Ronald

I see, like I thought but was not sure the Octave is at the 8 fret only because it is diatonic, but 8 fret diatonic and 12 fret chromatic is the same place as it is the string length that still forms the octave at a certain place, frets placed accordingly

If I am wrong tho' please let me know  BTW I have just joined the Everything dulcimer on FB Thanks Ken for the info.

Guys, my guitar will remain a guitar , it was born as a guitar and nothing will be removed or added.

This diagram will explain the diatonic/chromatic situation.  Dulcimer Make Tony, on the FB Everything Dulcimer Farcebook page, posted this today.    Forget everything guitar... you'll just confuse yourself going back and forth.  

No, I don't think so, I live in Northern Ontario near the Quebec border, it is pretty much country music.

However, that being said, I may just have a change of plans.  I am welder by trade and worked with wood all my life. My father was a contractor.  I have a bunch of well dried cherry wood some of which is quite near quarter sawn and I have just been truing  the five inch bandsaw.  Have gathered all the information about dimension.  I know quite a lot about guitar building and I would make a Fender type  headstock at about 14 degrees. One thing ( amongst other) that I have not quite gotten into my head. If the open string octave on a guitar is at the  twelfth fret and the octave from the first fret at the 13 th. Why is the 1+ fret octave at the 8+.  Something just occured to me, 8 is diatonic, is it at the 8+ fret because it is diatonic and missing some frets?

Thanks, Ronald

Yes. Berea the last 2 years was great. I count all those there among my many dulcimer friends. Thanks for FOTMD which allowed the organizers the forum to put that event together in 2018 and 2019. Looking forward to Berea 2020.

I'm among the newer folks to go to a gathering, even with 50+ years with a dulcimer! I was delighted to meet the folks at Berea last May that have responded here--David & Karen Bennett, Ken Hulme, John Knopf, Steven Berger, Irene, as well as many others including Lois, Nina, Glenda, Bobby Ratliff & Deborah, Dan Cox, & Richard Streib that I can presently think of. But we missed Ken Longfield!

It was a great gathering and I hope to see the same folks again as well as new folks next May. I've already begun practicing for next year. What's more, if you're "on the fence" about coming, you won't want to miss the chance to win one of John Knopf's authentic, historic reproduction dulcimers! 

Ann

@Dusty-Turtle I like what the md player is doing, too!  These fellas work so well as a duo.  

As many have mentioned the Hindman and Berea gatherings have brought many of us together. It is a festivals that I met many of the folks from FOTMD or the dearly departed Everything Dulcimer site. I think the number of members I've met in person is over twenty. I know it is getting too high for me to count on all my fingers and toes.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

You folks are ha ha 😄 funny. 

I've met many WONDERFUL folks from FOTMD in Berea, KY or in Hindman, KY the past few years.  (I can't remember any of them as being awful or unfriendly!)  I think particularly of those special friends in Hindman who started and ran the dulcimer project there, as well as my fellow luthiers who are attempting to raise high the banner of traditional dulcimore building and playing.  

Me, too; me, too!

OH YES YES YES....and I can hardly wait for the next Berea, Kentucky gathering.  I consider all that were there my friends.   If fact, a great blessing.  I smile even typing this note.  I've called several and asked how to solve a problem I'm into with dulcimer making and the problem gets solved.  That's friendship.  Then I've gone to the OLD PAL Festival in Palestine, Texas and what a blast that is.   YES, friends with many there and I'm looking forward to going to my 4th festival there.  Marvelous entertainment and classes and jamming there.  my brother and I have gone for 3 years in a row and we figured "that's our family reunion"   aloha, irene

TERRY, can I quote you....more smiles on this one....aloha, irene