Forum Activity for @rond

Strumella, the trouble is that I live in Canada and I am now on disability,  the cheapest cardboard kits are about 50 to 60 US.

With the exchange and shipping it does not make sense when I will want a wood one much sooner than later. This is why it would not be feasible for me to get a wood one as a kit till'  late winter;  and that is scraping every penny.

Sure, I can get Appeldorn or Hora for about 200  Can.    I will try and build one first. And I know this is not fleeting because I actually know how to pronounce Appalachia correctly as opposed to pronouncing the third syllable and making it sound like AY.    This in  itself should be a good start to a   YOU KNOW YOU LOVE THE MOUNTAIN DULCIMER WHEN.......

Ah, Ah,   Ronald 

Yes Dusty, I just saw Chris Thile yesterday as a matter of fact on You Tube play Silver Dagger live.

Also,  check out Ebony Buckle sing it on You Tube it is from an excerpt from Inspector George Gently episode a few years back she is as beautiful as she sings  to boot. George Gently takes place in the 1960's.  those of us that remember the 60's will find anomalies such as lighting a match with the strike plate in the back of the match pack, they did not change this to the back till mid 70's  I know...I lit full packs of them many time;  probably why they changed it to the back..

Ronald,   everything double spaced when you strike enter

That's a good question, @RonD.  I'm surprised that tune isn't more common in the dulcimer community.

I did find this noter/drone version by Cecil Moody , but the melody seems to be a simplified version that misses out on the more eerie, minor-sounding parts that you here in other versions by Joan Baez or, most recently, Chris Thile .

I also found some lyrics sheets with chords , which are (happily) in the key of D.  I haven't worked through the whole tune yet, but at least the beginning can be played on a dulcimer tuned DAA or DAd.  If you play noter/drone, tune DAA, since the melody begins on that A note for "Don't" and then moves up to E (either 4 on an A string or 1 on a D string) for "songs."

I may work out a version of this tune over the next few days.  If so, I'll post again.

I too recommend you get one of those cheap but great to play cardboard dulcimer kits.  You can save your money for a good dulcimer (or build one) later this winter like you planned.  Meanwhile, you'll have a fine inexpensive dulcimer to play right away, and you can use it for camping or travel later on if you get or build a higher quality one. Having an instrument that you don't have to worry about losing or damaging is a great thing!

But the real question is... Is your goal right now to build a dulcimer?, or is it to get started playing a dulcimer?  You can start with one and do the other later, or vice versa. But not both at the same time.  ;D

Once you own or put together a cardboard kit, you'll understand all the various things that everyone is trying to convey to you right now... because you have experience in guitar/chromatic setups.  In my opinion, once you have a dulcimer in hand it'll all become clear pretty quickly, in a way that's much better than long drawn out explanations and theory.   :)

For me, it actually changes as I learn new songs. I have so many. Currently, I'd say:

My Heart Will Go On (the Titanic song)

Goodbye is Not Forever (Bing Futch)

This Old Guitar (John Denver)

Three???!!! Who can only have three! Well, a few of my favorite ballads are:

Rothesay Bay, Ca' The Yowes, Caller O'u, The Gairdner And The Plooman, The False Lover Won Back, The Maid Gaed To The Mill, Maggie Lauder, The Golden Skein, Today, Believe Me If All Those Endearing Young Charms, Lass From The Low Countree

Another suggestion is to get a kit.   Just type in "mountain dulcimer kit" in google and many come up to choose from.   I've heard that cardboard kits are also good to learn on.  Do your own research and see what one calls your name.   IT'S A JOY TO BUILD YOUR OWN DULCIMER.   After you build one, then...............oh oh..........you'll build another.   aloha, irene

If you want to build, join our Dulcimer Making Group, and we can guide you along the way.  The most critical bit is getting the fret spacing right.  There are good fret spacing calculators that will give you the diatonic frets for any VSL.   Since you're into re-sawing, you'll want boards that will be about 1/8".  Unlike guitars, dulcimers have almost no braces.  The fretboard itself is a giant eternal brace from one end to the other.  You'll want that fretboard about 1.5" wide (or a bit less) and about 3/4" tall (for finger clearance).  A simple elliptical shape is a good place to start, but if you enjoy bending thin wood, the jigs for more complex shapes are easy to make.  Here's the jig which I made recently for my interpretation of a North Carolina Holly Leaf shaped dulcimer that originated around the time of the Civil War.  The side planks here are 1/8" maple.

Does anyone know of a recording on line of someone playing silver dagger on the dulcimer

Ronald

I see, like I thought but was not sure the Octave is at the 8 fret only because it is diatonic, but 8 fret diatonic and 12 fret chromatic is the same place as it is the string length that still forms the octave at a certain place, frets placed accordingly

If I am wrong tho' please let me know  BTW I have just joined the Everything dulcimer on FB Thanks Ken for the info.

Guys, my guitar will remain a guitar , it was born as a guitar and nothing will be removed or added.

This diagram will explain the diatonic/chromatic situation.  Dulcimer Make Tony, on the FB Everything Dulcimer Farcebook page, posted this today.    Forget everything guitar... you'll just confuse yourself going back and forth.  

No, I don't think so, I live in Northern Ontario near the Quebec border, it is pretty much country music.

However, that being said, I may just have a change of plans.  I am welder by trade and worked with wood all my life. My father was a contractor.  I have a bunch of well dried cherry wood some of which is quite near quarter sawn and I have just been truing  the five inch bandsaw.  Have gathered all the information about dimension.  I know quite a lot about guitar building and I would make a Fender type  headstock at about 14 degrees. One thing ( amongst other) that I have not quite gotten into my head. If the open string octave on a guitar is at the  twelfth fret and the octave from the first fret at the 13 th. Why is the 1+ fret octave at the 8+.  Something just occured to me, 8 is diatonic, is it at the 8+ fret because it is diatonic and missing some frets?

Thanks, Ronald

Yes. Berea the last 2 years was great. I count all those there among my many dulcimer friends. Thanks for FOTMD which allowed the organizers the forum to put that event together in 2018 and 2019. Looking forward to Berea 2020.

I'm among the newer folks to go to a gathering, even with 50+ years with a dulcimer! I was delighted to meet the folks at Berea last May that have responded here--David & Karen Bennett, Ken Hulme, John Knopf, Steven Berger, Irene, as well as many others including Lois, Nina, Glenda, Bobby Ratliff & Deborah, Dan Cox, & Richard Streib that I can presently think of. But we missed Ken Longfield!

It was a great gathering and I hope to see the same folks again as well as new folks next May. I've already begun practicing for next year. What's more, if you're "on the fence" about coming, you won't want to miss the chance to win one of John Knopf's authentic, historic reproduction dulcimers! 

Ann

@Dusty-Turtle I like what the md player is doing, too!  These fellas work so well as a duo.  

As many have mentioned the Hindman and Berea gatherings have brought many of us together. It is a festivals that I met many of the folks from FOTMD or the dearly departed Everything Dulcimer site. I think the number of members I've met in person is over twenty. I know it is getting too high for me to count on all my fingers and toes.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

You folks are ha ha 😄 funny. 

I've met many WONDERFUL folks from FOTMD in Berea, KY or in Hindman, KY the past few years.  (I can't remember any of them as being awful or unfriendly!)  I think particularly of those special friends in Hindman who started and ran the dulcimer project there, as well as my fellow luthiers who are attempting to raise high the banner of traditional dulcimore building and playing.  

Me, too; me, too!

OH YES YES YES....and I can hardly wait for the next Berea, Kentucky gathering.  I consider all that were there my friends.   If fact, a great blessing.  I smile even typing this note.  I've called several and asked how to solve a problem I'm into with dulcimer making and the problem gets solved.  That's friendship.  Then I've gone to the OLD PAL Festival in Palestine, Texas and what a blast that is.   YES, friends with many there and I'm looking forward to going to my 4th festival there.  Marvelous entertainment and classes and jamming there.  my brother and I have gone for 3 years in a row and we figured "that's our family reunion"   aloha, irene

TERRY, can I quote you....more smiles on this one....aloha, irene

Me three...at Berea, where the wacky ones tend to gather...including Kenh and David!

Me too -- same wacky bunch of hardcore Traditional players and builders, including David...

I've met several/many the last two years at the Berea Traditional Dulcimore Gathering and have become friends with them!

This morning I was deleting a few online bookmarks that no longer do me any good. Since I had no been able to view the 'set to Secret group'  EverythingDulcimer FB page for months now, I had my finger hovered over the bookmark to delete it. On a whim I clicked on it first, for oldtime's sake to see if by some miracle it had been made public again.
VOILA!  It seems to be public and viewable by everyone again ! 

So now even if you are not a member of FB, you can at least go take a peek and see what's been happening on ED's last embodiment.   https://www.facebook.com/groups/165673533442748/

The Powers That Be must have made the switch back to public group again, after many months now of being set to invisible to all non ED group members.  Welcome back to the world, ED!  ...and I do hope it stays that way. 

Terry I love the way you look at it here.  I'm going to incorporate your "first time in my life I've been...." attitude towards my age from now on. Thank you! 

Truer words never spoken, Terry! 

I just CRACKED UP LAUGHING on these posts and read them all.  The best book I've found on the UKULELE is written by Jim Beloff.   The info is a gathering of many years of research.   The name of Ukulele is like this.  When the Hawaiian's saw the Quatro being played by the Portigee folks that came to Hawaii said in Hawaiian of course, "wow, he's playing so fast it's like a jumping flea!!"  Uku=lice lele=fast. A type of Tenor ukulele was popular in a "tenor banjo" or a banjolele in Hawaii 1910-1930.  You can find 'em on sale on ebay.   I've made 7 of them.  These were also called TENOR BANJO'S.   They are not as loud as a big banjo.....and fit in with Hawaiian music.  The Tahitians still have as their national instrument a banjo uke.  When that was popular, England and other places made these banjoleles. plunty of them on ebay now. ha, I'm going to check out the UU site.   sounds really fun.  My mother had a Martin ukulele and played it in the car while I was growing up with my brother.   My brother has that ukulele.  He took it to Martin Guitar co. to see what it was worth.  He about fell over....$55,000.   He still has the original case.  FYI....there are more ukulele players in the United Kingdom then all of the USA and that includes Hawaii.  We lived in the islands for over 30 years.   aloha, irene

Sorry you don't  live near me, I could just lend you a dulcimer till yours came in, unless you wanted to change the guitar around.  Is there no one in  your area?

good luck,

Ronald, you are actually asking two questions here.  The first has to do with traditional dulcimer styles and the second about modern, chord style players.

As Ken has explained, traditionally, the dulcimer was only fretted on the melody string and the bass and middle strings were left to drone. Many fine players still play in that style and achieve the haunting, ancient sound of traditional folk music.  In that style of play, the tuning of the melody string has to change depending on the mode or scale on which the melody of a particular song is based.  DAA and DAd are the two "major-sounding" tunings. Before the addition of the 6+ fret, DAA was the only tuning that could be used to play songs in what we call the major scale, so it was more common.  The addition of the 6+ fret allows us to play that same scale in DAd, but as Ken mentions, if you only play on the melody string, DAA allows three notes below the starting note of the scale. 

But if you play in the traditional drone style, you don't just keep one tuning all the time. The tuning is determined by the melody.  In the key of D, Angelina Baker can only be played in DAA.  Going to Boston can only be played in DAd.  Shady Grove can only be played in DAC, and so forth.

Modern chord players who fret across all the strings and also have a 6+ fret can often (though not always) get those different melodies without retuning.  But both DAA and DAd have exactly the same notes, so neither one has an advantage in that light. Rather the difference between the two has to do with chord voicings.  Chords in DAA are more compact and chords in DAd have greater range, meaning the notes might come from two different octaves.  But one is not better than the other.

At some point a few decades ago, dulcimers tuned DAd with a 6+ fret became a kind of standard for modern dulcimer players.  That is how I play, but there is admittedly something rather arbitrary about it. Had most people tuned DAA when I started playing, that would probably be my main tuning.

Ronald, the Kens have already highlighted the most important obstacles: the chromatic fretboard, the placement of the bass string, etc.

I think the biggest obstacle you will have is string spacing.  The strings on the guitar are placed much closer together than are the strings on the dulcimer.  If you are going to play in a modern chording style in which you fret across all the strings, string slots that are next to each other (say the G, D, and A strings, for example), will be too close together for you to get your fingers in there. And if you choose string slots further apart (say the B, D, and low E strings), they will be too far apart and will make chording difficult.

If you want to play in a traditional droning style that string placement will be less of an issue because you will only be fretting (either with a finger or a noter) the string closest to you, so the strings won't have to be equidistant.

But regardless of how you proceed, as Ken states, the slots that exist in your nut and bridge may not work for dulcimer string gauges.

I would suggest another option.  Keep your guitar in playable condition as a guitar.  Find yourself a cheap cardboard dulcimer.  None of them are that loud, but some of them are ridiculously nice and make me feel silly for spending so much money for fancy dulcimers made of fancy woods.  Backyard dulcimer makes a kit and so does Folkcraft.  They take about an hour to put together, or you can pay a little extra and have it pre-made.  You can sometimes find used ones as well.  Those cardboard dulcimers are more than adequate to get you started while you wait for your winter dulcimer.

As my friend Ken says, the major advantage of DAA (Ionian Mode key of D), where the scale starts at the 3rd fret, is to provide the player with three notes below the 'low do' of the scale -- a feature found in many many folk songs from around the world.  

Not everyone wants to have different notes on the same fret, so there's no "robbing" of notes.  More traditional players use the unfretted middle and bass drones -- as drones -- to provide a background for the melody being played on the Melody string(s).  The Unison tuning -- ddd -- has all string tuned to the same high d of DAd, which give a sort of "bee buzz" effect.

In DAA you have three notes below the starting note of the scale. In DAd you have to grab those notes on the middle string. Although no one know who originated the double melody string, we suppose it was to increase the melody line of a tune. DAd makes it easy to play tunes across the fretboard rather than in the linear pattern of DAA. If you play noter/drone style you still have the same drone notes in both tunings.

We don't have dumb questions here. We ask questions to learn and grow. There is nothing dumb about that. Please feel to ask questions for which you do not have answers. We do our best to answer them.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."