Forum Activity for @ken-hulme

Not old, not a kit.  But I can't tell you right off which of several companies

built it. 

You can certainly play in DAd tuning on that instrument, but you cannot play both in DAd (called Mixolydian Mode, with the 7th note of the scale flatted) and play in DAA the Major Scale (called Ionian Mode).    Greg is correct that you will find it easier to play in DAA, which is actually used for about 95% of the folk and pre-20th century popular music in the world.

Thank you.  You confirmed my suspicions it is diatonic.  I just ordered some new strings 12-12-22 and will restring in a few days.  In the meantime I'm going to start cleaning it up.  Have a good Thanksgiving!

@susie I came-by the instrument used yet it has been used very little.  I've not contacted the builder, Paul Conrad, to ask him just what variety of instrument he called it.  It has a very deep voice with which I am smitten.  

From your picture, it looks like you have traditional diatonic fretting on your dulcimer.  In practical terms, that pretty much eliminates D-A-d tuning for playing a "D" major scale.  To play a major scale in D-A-d tuning, you would need a 6 1/2 fret (an extra fret not available on your dulcimer).  If you had that fret and tuned to D-A-d, the "D" major scale would begin on the melody string at the nut and go up the fretboard one fret at a time skipping the 6th fret and using the 6 1/2 fret instead.

Your diatonic fretboard will work best with D-A-A tuning.  In D-A-A tuning the "D" major scale would begin on the melody string at the 3rd fret and proceed up the fretboard to the 10th fret.  No extra frets are needed in this tuning.

D-A-d tuning could be used on your dulcimer to play in the Mixolydian mode, but as a beginner you are better off staying away from modes until you can play several tunes on the dulcimer that you have.  Modes can be somewhat confusing for beginners.  When you are ready to try out D-A-d and other alternative tunings, you can have a luthier install a 6 1/2 fret on your dulcimer, if you like.

I hope this helps. I'm having trouble receiving the photos I sent to my computer, so maybe this one will help.

 dulcimer.jpg - 280KB

Photos, Robin!  Photos!!  Overall, close ups of head and tail.  General descriptions are no real help in identifying a dulcimer.  Look inside the sound holes and see if there is a Maker's Label.  Overall length and depth of the box are meaningless measurements.  Round soundholes and good birch ply do not mean a kit.  

What do you mean by "The frets are really small"???  Length?  Diameter?  Height above the fretboard?  

The string gauges you choose depend on what "open" tuning you will be using -- most folks use DAA or DAd.  Go to the Strothers String Calculator and plug in the VSL and desired open notes, and it will tell you what you need:  http://www.strothers.com/string_choice.html

Thanks for your helpful response.  I just checked Hulme's article for new players.  My action is too low on the middle and bass strings at the first fret. The melody string action is okay at the first fret.  There is plenty of room at the left of the second fret (using a nickel).  I assume that lowering the nut slots on the bridge for the middle and bass strings will help. Is that going to increase the space between the string and the fret?  I will have to get new strings first, for sure.  As to what tuning to use, what is the tonal difference between DAA and DAd?

The strings will depend quite a bit on the tuning you intend to use.  Most dulcimer players play in the Key of "D". The two most common tunings used are D-A-A and D-A-d.  For D-A-A tuning you will need a bass string with a gauge somewhere between .020 and .024, a middle string with a gauge of approximately .012 to .016, and a melody string with a gauge of approximately .012 to .014.  There are several brands of dulcimer strings that are sold in sets in these standard gauges.  

I tune in D-A-A for most of my playing and prefer .022, .012, and .012 gauge strings.  If I were going to tune in D-A-d tuning, I'd probably go with a .010 or .011 for the melody string, but the .012 will work fine on most dulcimers.

Before buying your strings, take a look at how they attach to the tail-end of the dulcimer.  Some dulcimers require ball-end strings.  Other dulcimers require loop-end strings.  And just to complicate things, some dulcimers can use either ball-end or loop-end strings.  If you aren't sure take your dulcimer with you when you go to the music store to buy your strings. If you are buying your strings online or through the mail, just be sure to order the strings that attach to the dulcimer in the same way as those currently on the dulcimer.

Other than that, welcome to our friendly forum.  You will find many helpful and friendly people ready to assist you.  When you have a question, someone will normally have the answer for you.  

I'm a total newbie who was given what appears to be an older 3 string elliptical dulcimer.  I'd like some help identifying what I've got and what strings to use.  It's 30" overall, 1-3/4" deep in the box, has a metal staple style nut and I think a plastic bridge and  open gear tuners. I think this may be a kit build, because the sound holes are two simple circles and it may be  laminate. The strings are attached to posts on the top  of the fretboard beyond the bridge. I can't identify the wood, but it has a nice resonance and volume.

The frets are really small, which is why I think it may be an older instrument.  The VSL is 24".  What strings should I use on this? The ones that came on it are totally grungy.  

Thanks for any help you can provide.   If I can get my phone to send me a photo of it, I'll post a picture.

Thanks, @don-grundy!  

Indeed, it is, @dusty-turtle.  I have been fiddling with the bridge to get the intonation set and am not there yet, yet I really love its deep voice.  

Is that the dulcimer with the deep voice that you used on your recent audio recording, @Robin-Thompson? It sounds wonderful!

A new-to-me Timbre Hill mountain dulcimer.  :)

 image.jpeg - 313KB

Don, it just occurred to me that if you were indeed trying to get the note of a 1/2 fret, you could do it by bending a lower string.  So if you wanted an A#, you could bend your D string at the 4th fret.  Or if you wanted a D#, you could bend the A string at the 3rd fret.

Don, I'm not sure what you mean by "at 1/2."  If you bend a note at the first fret, you are actually moving toward the note you would get at the 1-1/2 fret.  There is no way to bend an open string, so you cannot bend a string to get the note you would get with a 1/2 fret.

Bending notes at the first fret is harder than elsewhere. I generally push in on the melody string and pull back on the bass and middle strings.  It also helps to use more than one finger, so you might fret and bend a string with three fingers until you build up the strength to do it with just one.

Any hints; particularly at 1/2.

Thanks, Lisa. I have a McSpadden and my melody strings are closed together, too. There are times when I am quickly sliding my thumb while anchoring the other strings in chord playing where the bottom two strings separate some. I might see if I can try out someone’s dulcimer in my group. That is a great idea.

Well, the second-easiest way to find out is take one of the melody strings off your dulcimer and see how you like it. You can always put the string back (or use this as a opportunity to replace all the strings, which is usually a good idea).  See if you can loosen the string that's closest to you and drop it down off the side of the fretboard.  Some dulcimers have a tiny nail where you can tuck the string to keep it out of the way -- then you don't have to remove the string entirely and you can switch between 3 and 4 strings whenever you like.

The most-lazy way (and therefore my favorite!) is next time you're at a group meeting ask someone with a 3-string setup if you can borrow their dulcimer for a song or two.  Try to borrow a dulcimer that's similar to your own so it's a fair comparison.

My own preference is double-melody for drone-style in DAA or DAG tuning.  I don't have a problem with hammer-ons or pull-offs because my McSpadden's melody strings are placed very close together, the action is not ridiculously low nor too high, and the string tension is fairly tight.  Floppy strings or strings that are far apart can be a problem.  I have met some ducimers that are not good with double-melody strings and I don't blame the strings, I blame the dulcimer.

I prefer a single-melody string for chords, fingerpicking and tunings like DAD that often require melody notes on the middle string.  In these situations I don't want the melody string(s) to sound vastly different from the other strings.

But that's just me.  Try it and see what works for you.  As you continue to explore the dulcimer, you'll want to try a lot of different setups (try 4-equidistant next!)  Strings are (relatively) cheap and easy ways to experiment.

Thanks, Dusty, I appreciate it. I played rhythm guitar on an acoustic in the past and didn’t want to give up the extra string either. I just went to my first dulcimer festival and one of my teachers suggested I remove the string. I am a chord player and want to improve on hammer on’s and pull offs, etc... I think I should try it. 

I tune my dulcimer to DAD. Sometimes other tunings.

Hi there @sal-monella !  I posted a response to your beginner book discussion in the General Forum, where I mention some of the factors you'll encounter if playing your stick dulcimers with mountain dulcimer tab books, here:

https://fotmd.com/forums/forum/general-mountain-dulcimer-or-music-discussions/36238/beginners-dulcimer-book#r36239

Welcome to the site! 

Greetings Sal!  :D

I know you mentioned an interest in learning fingerpicking style at some point.  But have you decided yet whether to begin playing the dulcimer in chording style or in traditional noter-drone style?  There are learning books for each style of playing- fingerpicking, chord, and noter.

 I would love to suggest that you join a couple of the Groups on this site which will have very specific discussions for their Group subject focus, such as Beginner players, stick dulcimers, fingerpicking, chord playing style, etc etc.  You'll see all kinds of great discussions in the focus groups that will probably help you decide where you want to focus first!  It's easy to click the Join button on any of the group main pages, and just as easy to UNjoin them later if you like. You need to JOIN a group in order to see and read its full discussions and to post in it.  If you have not joined a group yet, you'll only see the first post of each discussion.

Do you have only stick dulcimers so far, and not a lap dulcimer?  If you have just stick instruments with dulcimer fret patterns, then when you use dulcimer learning books intended for 'normal' lap-situated dulcimers you'll have to make some adaptations when trying to follow the book tab. That's because strumsticks have their strings reversed from the usual dulcimer setup. Lap dulcimers have the high melody string(s) closest to the player and the bass string furthest away from you. When holding a stick strummer in your lap with the peghead to your left as normal, the bass string will be closest to your body.  This is the reverse of 'regular' mountain dulcimers and will confuse you a lot if you're following a tab book with chord fingering charts!

So unless you get a 'normal' lap dulcimer, you'll need to figure out how you will handle this issue when following mountain dulcimer TAB. Of course not everyone chooses to use tab, but chord charts will still present a problem if you want to play in chord style on a stick instrument- everything will need to be either mentally or physically reversed).

All that said, depending on what your goals are you can find great ways to play and love playing your stick dulcimers if that's what you want to do.  In that case definitely join our Stick Group and start posting questions there on how to adjust mountain dulcimer learning materials to successfully apply to strumsticks, without losing your mind!   lol!   ;D

If you do get a regular mountain dulcimer to start out with, then I suggest you stay with that while learning the basics, especially if using books, because switching back and forth to strumsticks will certainly be confusing to you while just starting out playing.

Welcome!

Hi @Silverstrings.  When I first started playing the dulcimer I played with a double melody string because, well, that's how my first dulcimer was sold to me.  I was advised by more experienced players to remove one of them because it would be "easier" to play with just three strings, but I arrogantly ignored that advice, thinking that since I had played mandolin and have a 12-string guitar, the double strings would not be a problem for me. One day when putting on new strings I decided to leave the extra melody string off to see what it would be like, and I immediately knew I liked the sound better.  A single melody string just makes for such a cleaner and less cluttered sound.  I never put a second melody string on a dulcimer after that moment.

There are other benefits to a single melody string which you point to: it is easier to perform hammer-ons and pull-offs.  And it is nearly impossible to bend strings well with a double melody since the two strings do not bend at exactly the same rate.

Luckily, you don't have to make this decision permanently.  Switch to a single melody string, play for a while, and see how you like it.  If you don't you can always put the extra string back on.

I understand that noter/drone players enjoy zinging up and down the fretboard, and supposedly the double melody strings create a better balance between the melody and the drones.  But if you fret across all the strings, using a single melody string actually creates that balance since all strings play the melody more or less equally.

If you search through the past discussion here at FOTMD, you will find that several address this very issue.  Here is one of them .  (And looking through that old discussion, I realize that I posted nearly the same comments I added here.  At least I'm consistent.)

So, everyone in my dulcimer group plays with 3 strings. I have resisted removing one of the melody strings. I thought the sound would be better with 4. However, after 8 months of playing I am doing more flat picking, hammer on’s and pull offs.  Pro’s and cons to removing the extra melody string is encouraged. Thanks!

Thanks Terry!

Sal- monella

In answer to your question about a good dulcimer learning book.

Beyond the Basics, by Linda W Collins, of Cabin Hill Music.

www.cabinhillmusic.com

A great great learning tool by video, are Strumelia’s old videos.  She has posted many learning videos that are very valuable to beginners.  Were to me, 8 years ago, anyway.

Good luck in your hopefully amazing journey.

Terry

Welcome Sal-Monella!     Interesting handle you have there.

There really is no consensus as to  best book to learn any aspect of dulcimer. 

Realize, of course that there is a big difference between playing one of those stick instruments and playing a true dulcimer.  For starters the strings are 'backwards'.  Also unless you lay that stick flat on your lap, no dulcimer playing instructions are going to make any sense.  

Howdy,

As you can see by my profile, I'm new to the dulcimer. I have made a couple stick dulcimers and a Strumbly, but really haven't learned to play one. That is what I am commencing to do by joining FOTMD. The thing I was wondering was how can I search, or is the info already out there, about the memberships idea of the "BEST" beginners book for learning dulcimer. I believe that I will want to take a stab at finger picking at some point in time as well. So maybe a book that has some sort of progression in that direction is what I'm looking for.

Thank you in advance for any help with this topic.

-Sal

Currently I have dozens of favorites, but three of the top would be Ashoken Farewell, Elk River Blues, and Sandy River Belle.

!!! Thanks, Robin!

Strumelia, this is something of thread dredge.

I guess I should apologise for not being active on the site but I have been having just too much fun in the workshop. I have now completed two mountain dulcimers a hurdy gurdy, a crwth, a nordic lyre, two bowed psalteries plus several ukuleles and flutes and am now turning my attention to a rebec, which is how I stumbled across this thread.

I have the plans from Rutgers University and am mulling over whether to build the soprano or the tenor rebec and having built two tenor ukes I do prefer the more mellow tones. Are you still playing your rebec and with your experience do you have a preference for either the soprano or tenor models? The Rutgers one is a soprano and I would have to scale up the plans to get the extra scale length required but this is no real problem.

Rhys

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I used to sing this song when I sang and played guitar in a pizza parlor in Canada when my husband was in premed school.  I was paid more in 1/2 hour of singing then working all day.....I just loved this song, but was not my life....being so happily married and with our new baby girlie.  That was 54 years ago.   sigh....time flys.  but my love for that tune never wains.   I sang many of Joan Baez's songs.  I loved all of the Child Ballads...and old folks songs. aloha, irene

Pretty Saro is definitely one of them when I first heard Iris Dement sing it