Forum Activity for @cottage-timbre

I gave this a couple of days to see who would chime in, and looks like (at least among those who bothered) I am decidedly in the minority! And yet I am unmoved!

And so, in good humor, and with the best goodwill I will point out that a "sweet sound" is a poor defining characteristic. Many types of instruments could be said to have a "sweet sound". In fact, I know some people who do not find the dulcimer very sweet sounding. And indeed, some poorly crafted dulcimers do not have that "sweet sound". Perhaps the issue is in the adoption of the name "dulcimer" in the first place, being already assigned to the hammer dulcimer? But it is the name we have. It does seem that "dulcimer"  is a catch all for any fretted (or unfretted) zither (or non-zither as in stick dulcimers) that are not already defined as an eppinette des vosage, hummel, scheitholt, etc. And perhaps I should modify my previous argument to pertain to the "Appalachain" or "Mountain" dulcimer, rather than simply the word "dulcimer" used by itself.

Words do change meanings over time. It is an undeniable fact. Such word meanings change with usage, and there are different mechanisms for that change. I would argue that the change is not ALWAYS legitimate. For example, the word "literally" used to very clearly mean that what ever was being referred to is not being spoken of figuratively. For the last few decades, the word is increasingly being used for emphasis, and quite figuratively! No. No matter how cold you were, you did not "literally" freeze to death! etc. I won't belabor the point with more examples, but sometimes ignorance, hyperbole, or deliberate efforts to truncate or obfuscate through slang are the drivers of linguistic change.

The banjo example Strumelia gave is a good one. Banjos hadn't reached the apex of their evolution. I would add the fifth string to that list of "improvements". But I will point out, there are defining characteristics that make it a banjo in the first place, and if you stretch that too far, it becomes something else.

However, as Alex Lubet pointed out, the original question is that of "why not to buy a chromatic". It appears I am guilty of hijacking the thread (or attempting to).

You're welcome. If you need any help with the replacement let me know. I've done it many times.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

These are geared tuners, so I think I may just replace them. Will probably pick up a replacement bridge and nut too. It was well loved and modified. I figure it might be a good idea to replace those parts too. Thanks for your help!

If the screw has bottomed out you can place a washer between the wall of the peg head and the shaft of the peg to increase the distance the screw travels. Then you can tighten the peg again. If this method isn't to your liking, you can replace them with geared tuners. The Dulcimer Shoppe sells ones that they put on their instruments. I've used them on a few dulcimers as replacements. Tuning pegs They take a 10mm or 3/8 inch hole which is about the same size as the hole in your kit dulcimer. It is fairly easy to do the replacement.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

I have a 1977 Dulcimer Shoppe kit dulcimer.  When I got it, it wouldn't stay in tune because the tuners wouldn't hold when tightened. I found out how to tighten the screw on the tuner and that has helped. But it doesn't stay in tune like my dulcimers with newer tuners should zi just replace them?  How hard is it and where would I go for replacements?

Hi All,

I hope you're doing well.

I'm personally more interested in the chromatic dulcimer question than the "what is a dulcimer?" question.  I would observe though, that the etymology of a word and its evolved meaning over time are someimes quite different (and sometimes not).

Writing only for myself, I've chosen not to get a chromatic dulcimer.  The following may sound like hubris, but that's absolutely not my intention.  I'm a classically trained composer.  I have a PhD in composition, which I've taught at the University of Minnesota for nearly fifty years.  I pretty much only play my own compositions and pieces written for me by others.  I mention this only because I'm fully acquainted with highly chromatic music.

But I choose not to own/play a chromatic dulcimer.  After fifty years of guitar, I added dulcimer to my instruments and it's by far my favorite now.  For me, a chromatic fretboard doesn't present particular challenges or inspirations, including discovering chromatic melodies and harmonies.  I have three principle means of deriving chromatic pitches:

1) Tunings:  I've found about 75 (on 3 and 4 equidistant strings) that I like.

2) Note bending:  Both sliding, blues style, and bending the note before I play it.

3) Harmonics that aren't available by stopping the strings.

I've come up with all kinds of, to me, interesting things that would never have occurred to me on a chromatic dulcimer or guitar.  It's one of the reasons I love it so.  I may discuss others in the future.

If any of this sounds interesting, I have channels on all the major streaming services and several albums, but I really only wanted to join this very interesting discussion, not to self-promote.

Have a great rest of the week.  It's no longer scorching here in MN, but we're having several days of heavy rain..

Although words do have to mean something, meanings change. Language adapts to accommodate a changing world. This has been confirmed to me many times in my 50-year career as a translator. And while I strongly believe that we need to respect tradition, there is no way to stop change. What I think we are seeing is that the term dulcimer is taking on a broader meaning. There will increasingly be a need to modify the term dulcimer with such adjectives as traditional or contemporary.  More and more makers are building a type of hybrid dulcimer with a guitar-type bridge, which to me is a positive development because it makes this wonderful instrument appealing to a wider range of musicians. 

I have always loved the sound of the dulcimer, but as a banjo and mandolin player, I was often disappointed by the lack of clarity. So I started building my own experimental instruments, which are designed for playing instrumental music using a mix of banjo, mandolin, and dulcimer technique. My attempts have been successful in at least one respect: the world has one more -- contemporary, hybrid, experimental -- dulcimer enthusiast.

My original quick release strap was the one from Folk roots it's okay but a bit bulky and you cannot interchange it with other dulcimers. so I decided to upgrade and add a little bling and spice to my life. Decided to upgrade to the Dunlop Straplok 

System, So I can use any Guitar strap. And Levts Have some great patterns hard to choose just one.  Also Ernie’s not too bad, but I think I'm leaning towards the Levts brand.

The good thing about adding the Dunlop Straplok System is you can use one strap and go from one instrument to the other great design love it I just thought I'd throw this out for those who are interested in using guitar straps that are easy to switch back and forth Very streamline system not bulky at all I give it two thumbs up. Just thought I'd share for those who are interested 

The first American-made instruments that were called 'banjos/banzas/banjars' were developed from traditional African instruments such as the akonting. The first official "banjos" had no frets. Then when banjo playing became popular through minstrelsy, banjos began to be mass produced, and with frets. They were called "fretted banjos".
Over time, fretted banjos became the norm and came to be called simply "banjos", while the unfretted ones became known as "fretless banjos" instead of just banjos.
It shows how common names can change according to what variations become more popular over time.

I understand what you are saying Ken, but my problem with the name is that both the hammered dulcimer and the lap dulcimers have their name because of their sound and not their respective structures.  I remember in the 60’s and 70’s discussions particularly from the hammered side was that, “we were first called the dulcimer and didn’t have to use the word hammered in front of it.” They went on to argue that the Appalachian dulcimer should be called something else.  The word dulcimer was a free and fluid word that described the sound of something and not its form. That led a Welshman to call a Pennsylvania fretted zitter (they didn’t call them Scheitholts) a Dulcimar, in 1757 and write it down as part of an inventory for a will. I doubt if the early players of the hammered or the Appalachian were thinking of build when they used the word, but instead added the words hammered, Appalachian or even mountain as descriptors.  I see stick dulcimers and the like as following that tradition.  Anyways, at this late date it is sort of hard to rename whatever these things are as they are already known by those names.

I know this is an old thread, and the disagreements have settled down, and trouble maker that I am (please forgive me), I'm going to stir the pot.

Ken Hulme is right about the definition of the dulcimer. The word has to mean something. If it doesn't, then it means nothing.

It is true that dulcimers have evolved over the last couple of centuries, but at some point what is being crafted would have to be called something different. We do this with other instruments: violins are not viols, citterns are not guitars, etc. And I would argue (not disparagingly) that stick dulcimers, chromatic dulcimers, dulcimers with an independent bridge and discontinuous fret board (al la guitar) stretch the definition of "dulcimer" beyond the breaking point. Again I am not disparaging these instruments. I am just saying we have to speak of them with modifiers such as "stick", "chromatic" etc. because they deviate from the norm, and that norm is the kind of instrument Ken is describing: a real dulcimer.

I hate to sound so un-inclusive, and I don't mean to imply that such instruments are inferior (I actually own a couple of the "non dulcimers" I described above), or that there aren't sufficient similarities to true dulcimers with the deviation instruments that they shouldn't be discussed here. I am saying that words have to mean something (dulcimer included) or they are useless. If a luthier or craftsman wishes to innovate beyond the basic and general definition, go for it, but what comes from that may not still be a dulcimer. And that is okay.

Then you'll need a nice case. Then you'll need something not so fancy for outside jams, or travel. Then there will be that one that just sounds so pretty...

Yup....all about the priorities....

Sounds reasonable to me too.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

$500 seems reasonable for a Mize.  Bob was a master craftsman of dulcimers, so if it's in great shape, then that seems like a fair price to me.

Great reminder, Ken. Thanks!
It's fun to occasionally catch a member in the chat room on FOTMD, and get to know them a little, or to just leave a message there for other members.

Others may chime in here with their own thoughts on this. But in my own opinion, if the dulcimer is in great shape (no cracks, scratches, pegs in good condition, etc) then i think $500 is a reasonable price for a Mize. It might even be a little low, if anything. Chestnut and walnut sound lovely as well.
Just because a price is above what we can pay, does that mean it's unreasonable?
Sometimes when i really want something wonderful that is a little above 'my budget', I will rebalance my budget to fix its priorities, because they are obviously faulty.

First post. A guy in town has a Mize dulcimer for sale. He wants $500, way beyond my budget, but it’s nice. He says it’s No. 857 is an early one from the ‘70’s. Chestnut and walnut. What is a reasonable price. I’ll have other

Well, this is really for everyone. There is a Chat feature on FOTMD and I'm not sure many people know about it. At one time we had a rather active group or folks who showed up in the chat from time to time to visit with one another. You can find it in the bottom right hand corner. It is a blue ballon with three red dots on it in a white square. If you click on this it opens the chat window. Sometimes folks log in early in the morning before work which is what I did for a long time. Since I've been retired I don't get up that early anymore. I usually check to see if anyone else is in the chat window when I check in to FOTMD. If you see me there, or anyone else for that matter, stop in and say Hello.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

I have, currently - in - my - lap, a Heinrich dulcimer numbered 144. This is his very first baritone, and she told me her name is Aster. I am currently transcribing a heavy metal song called "Wizard" by Castle Rat, and Aster is light and well appointed, and interesting... I am very happy with Gerry's craftsmanship and customer service. Please give him a look. I highly recommend.

https://heinrichdulcimers.com/about-the-artist/

Thank you both!

Welcome back!

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

What Dusty said. That' what I do.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Unless you are going to play with a noter, definitely remove the outer string so that the remaining three would be equidistant.  That extra space on the fretboard is nothing to be feared and would actually make bending the string a bit easier.

If you play with a noter, you might want to remove the inner string so that the melody string is separated a bit more from the drones.

So, I'm back, as I forewarned you all. I got my walnut TK O'Brien yesterday and really like it... definitely sounds different from my traditional 1985 David Mahoney I'm keeping in DAA and free of 1/2 frets. I've decided I really like the DAD tuning as well, and may get more into chords and what not than I had previously anticipated. Anyway, the title of this post sounds pretty simple and self-explanatory and it ought to be obvious to anyone who can use a yardstick. But, it ain't clear to me. Please see the pic. I don't know which melody string to remove to make 3 equidistant. It appears that if I remove the outer melody string then the remaining three will pretty much be equidistant. But... that'll leave that side of the fretboard with a wider space than what is currently seen on the other side of the fretboard with that first drone string. So, if I do remove that outer melody string, and with that consequent wider space between that edge of the fretboard and the remaining melody string, is that gonna pose any sort of problem or future problem... problems in learning or transitioning to another MD? Options? Ideas? Thoughts? Thanks in advance!

 IMG_6522.jpeg - 142KB

Welcome back, with encouragement to get back to the dulcimer.  

Welcome back!  

Haven't posted much since 2018 when I was first here. I did move, but to Kansas, not Tennessee. I haven't been playing at all but since I did finally retire, I decided it was time to try again. Glad to see this group is still active. 

Thank you, gentlemen. I appreciate your input.

Those prices seem fair.  McSpadden does excellent quality work, and their dulcimers hold their value pretty well.  I've owned a couple of all-walnut McSpaddens and have no complaints about any of them.

Molly, I agree with Richard although if you put it on an auction site it could go for more. It could go for less, too.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Not seeing it and based on your description I would think in the neighborhood of $300 to $350. Over the years I have purchased two different McSpadens which were purchased, put away and never played, buying them second hand for $300 each.

Hi, my friends.

I’m trying to answer a question for which I don’t know the answer. How can I find out how much a McSpadden solid walnut hourglass dulcimer is worth? It’s in excellent shape, no cracks or blemishes, built in 1988, with case. I don’t know what this lady is expecting to get for her dulcimer, but she did inquire about its worth. I’d appreciate any advice!

Thanks!

Molly McCurdy

Thanks again, Nate.  The tunes I've posted actually use pretty standard tunings, DAc and DAD with a first fret capo.  I'll be sending some others with more unusual tunings.  Everything is streamable on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Music, Bandcamp, and other platforms.

Have a great day.

Very true Alex!

I find that many combinations of root notes tend to just make things more confusing, which is a fun opportunity to find something new. 

Most of the time, I will alter the tuning in order to achieve specific chords and fit them together into a track, but many of these alternate tunings are fairly difficult for me to play a full song in. Again, it's just an opportunity to try a little harder.

Since I build all my dulcimers, $20 is about my average cost with some being closer to 5 and the most being about 30.

Thanks for taking the time to respond, and I have no doubt you will provide more creative music with creative tunings. 

I hope you have a great day as well, 

Nate

Thanks again, Nate.  I have three dulcimers, one of which cost me $20, is on loan, and I may never see again.  I keep three strings on one, four on the other.

I can adapt to a new tuning pretty quickly.  I'm not sure why, because ukulele essentially being a transposition of guitar (long my main instrument) drives me up a wall.  I have to pretend it's a guitar and not think of the pitches I'm actually playing.  If I was reading tab, of course this wouldn't be a problem.

At least on four strings, I haven't found many tunings that I didn't think work at all.  For me, it's a question of working with a tuning until I find something interesting.  If I were more concerned with playing familiar chords, I'd probably reject more tunings.

Have a great day.

Personally, i have a massive pile of strings and quite a few dulcimers(8 at the moment), so I often experiment with different string gauge combinations, each combination having a different range of possible tunings. Alternate tunings are a fun way to keep myself engaged when I'm getting a little bored and don't know what to do about it.

I would assume that you can probably do a lot more with them than I could, given your background. 

Thanks, Nate.  With only one exception, all the tunings I've used go low to high, which would eliminate some of those possibilities.  The only exception was Eb D F# A.  One of my former students wrote me a piece with many Eb4's.  When I originally played it, I bent the D up to Eb (with three strings), which obviously wasn't ideal, so I went to four equidistant strings, with an Eb on bottom, below the D, and only used it to play those low Eb's.  Never used that tuning again.

I haven't worked much with tuning the D string lower.  I almost always keep it on D.  I'm sure I'll get around to it.

Best,

If each string can be tuned down 3 steps or up 2 steps, that is 6 possible notes per string, which I think amounts to 1200 possible combinations on a 4 string dulcimer. Then it's just a matter of finding the ones that are actually useful lol. I personally am a big fan of ADAd and DAdf#, but as you said, there are so many options.

I had to look up Galax tuning.  I use all-unison tuning sometimes on both 3 and 4 strings and it's indeed powerful.

I spend a lot of time exploring different tunings.  I've come up with about 75 and I think they're more interesting on a 7+1 fret dulcimer than a chromatic dulcimer, although I've never played the latter (and have yet to get interested in buying one).  My interest may stem from a background in classical music and jazz.  I admire and enjoy more traditional repertoires, but I don't play them.  I'm sure the folk who do are better at it than I'd ever be.

If you're interested, I've got channels on most of the major streaming services and three albums (on dulcimer), with another dropping soon.

Have a great week!

Hi Alex.I suspect that going from Galax tuning to D a dd might be inspirational just as doing the reverse was for me.They both have their capabilities and special tunings to explore.Re the thumb,I use it all the time on high melody notes.I liked Dusty Turtle's comment about shifting the angle of the dulcimer...I've learned that if a tune requires a high thumb I have to shift the dulcimer a bit to the left(I'm a righty except with a hockey stick,laugh) and angle it a bit to get the high notes comfortably.