Forum Activity for @notsothoreau

I think I will try and put grooves on that bridge. I can look at my Ron Gibson and get an idea of what they should look like. Managed to snap the bass string but already have an order on the way for tomorrow. At least I reviewed how to string a scroll head and I know what I'm doing wrong. It needs a little tweaking. 

I really can’t tell much from the photos and am not sure what you want to know. Folkcraft kits came in two shapes; hourglass and teardrop. From the scroll in the photo yours appears to be an hourglass shaped one. I’m not sure what style nuts and bridges were used back in 1987. I think they are similar to the current Delvin bridges. You can see them on the Folkcraft website. Usually the bridges needed a lot of trimming to get a good string height.

Ken

”The dulcimer sings a sweet song.”

"Kit" can mean a lot of things. For example, an fine instrument plus case plus a ukulele pick, a 3 inch "noter" plus a CD and book can be described as a kit. A kit can also be just plans and pieces of wood.

Particularly if buying through eBay, ShopGoodwill, or a crafts store any document, description or label should be treated as mere suggestions about possible origin. Often accessories and documents found in the same closet with an instrument are all simply thrown into one box.

That's not to criticize auction purchases, that's how I got several of mine.  

On my instruments I typically use a nut or bridge with a flat bottom and a sloped (not rounded) top with the high edge toward the fretted portion. I then carefully slope the slots to match. The VSL should run from the inside of one to the inside of the other.

Thomas using traditional hide glue, galvanized wire and hand made milk paint.

 1.jpg - 278KB

I am going to put in a gratuitous plug for one of my favorite dulcimer authorities (I almost said “elders”, but she’s only a few years ahead of me!) - Joellen Lapidus. In her encyclopedic book “Lapidus on Dulcimer 2”, she says

The advantage of a chromatic dulcimer is you can play any note or chord in any tuning. The disadvantage is that it’s more difficult to play and you lose some of the melodic slipping and sliding between notes. The solution: have several dulcimers.

available at lapidusmusic.com

If you don’t know of Joellen, she was an early West Coast culture dulcimer maker, composer and performer. In the 60s and 70s, she introduced Joni Mitchell to the dulcimer. You can see and hear Joni playing Joellen’s instruments on her album Blue if you search YouTube. Joellen’s still an active maker and performer, and you should go out of your way to find her original music album Dulcimer Music for the Pelican Ballet on a streaming service - I found it through my Tidal subscription.Or you can buy it along with her book on her website.

Alex, have you looked at the discussions for the Groups (not same as Forums)? In particular the Groups “Chromatic Dulcimers” and “I Have Extra Frets”?

If you are new to the Groups part of the site, be aware that you have to “join” a group to read the posts and replies.

I am thinking it might have been sold noter style just because of the accessories. My Dulcimer Shoppe dulcimer has a label that said it is a kit. Ithoughtthat might be a common thing. It's possible that I flipped the bridge as it is loose in the slot .  But I'm pretty sure the squared off side should go in the slot.  The nut slipped over when I was restringing it.  I think I will put it all back together, tune it and see what the action is like.  If it seems high, I'll probably try putting in grooves.  I'll take it slow and try not to cause any damage. Thanks!

Happy Sunday, all.

May I respectfully and in friendship request more posts on chromatic vs. not chromatic?  There has been a great deal of interesting discussion of "what is a dulcimer?" and "is the duclimer on the verge of extinction?" here, but the original topic is, I hope, still of interest and deserving of your thoughtful contributions.

Thanks,

If you have not studied the Folkcraft website, a visit is in order. https://folkcraft.com/

Connecticut should only indicate that this was made when the factory was there between 1979 and 2006. I don't see anything on the Folkcraft site that indicates that they made "noter style" instruments. Almost any Appalachian dulcimer can be played with either a noter or the fingers.

Since the builder of a kit can glue any label inside, there is no reason to expect to see "made from a kit" inside. A label is simply a label. 

Did you, by any chance, flip the bridge over while changing strings?

As shown in the photos, the nut is well off center. The string grooves appear to be rather tight on the strings, but it is hard to tell from the photo. Perhaps the cut-away for the outer two strings isn't as big as it should be and is creating sideways pull.

You should check string heights when you acquire a "new" instrument. There is lots of good information on how to do that here on FOTMD.

Folkcraft sells a variety of replacement bridges complete with notches.
https://folkcraft.com/pages/search-results-page?q=bridge&page=1&rb_product_type=Building%20Supplies%20%26%20Plans

I managed to delete the entire thread while trying to delete a draft......

One of the reasons I still have a land line....

Because of the way your strings are anchored, straight, short line to the bridge.  They are not going to vary any, if at all under "normal" playing. the string tension will keep your VSL intact, and I wouldn't expect buzzing etc.

If you start pullin'/bendn' notes ...all bets are off.

If you are happy with the height of action, and the intonation, a few strokes with the edge of a nail file, steak knife, or most any other sharpish edged weapon will suffice. [at the point where the strings are resting/breaking over the bridge]. You are only looking to give the string a guide to keep it facing forward. No need for deep grooves. Worst case....you go too far, and end up finding another nut....

Best case...you now have a deeper relationship with your new friend...

Go slow and minimalist, it's a lot harder to put the material back if you take too much.

It's a bit hard to tell from the pictures... but it looks as if the strings rest on top/center, vs the flat forward edge....That is where to put your "guides".  Bringing the slots deeper than minimal will bring your strings closer or meeting the squared forward facing edge.

Or..... that 2nd cousin on the other side of the family, that used to play in a band can help you out......but he uses drywall screws.....they hold better.....

have a blessed day!

I managed to delete the entire thread while trying to delete a draft. Will try again with pictures. 

This is a 1987 Folkcraft dulcimer. It was made in Connecticut and might have been sold as a noter style dulcimer. It's not marked as a kit and everything seems to be well finished. One side of the bridgre is squared off and the other rounded. I didn't see any grooves on either side. 

I'd be willing to bet though, that there are thousands more currently active mtn dulcimer players today than there were at any particular time between 1880 and 1950.

Well kids it looks like my experiment didn't work out.  Boy was that a waste of money oh well live and learn. The idea was to find a nice streamlined solution to be able to snap a guitar strap on and off smoothly, without a bulky solution and be able to plug in an amplifier Jack. Tried the Musicnomad acousti-lok strap lock adapter output jack. Which just doesn't work. The distance between the output Jack and the button is too close so it interferes when trying to plug the amplifier Jack in and out of the instrument. The Musicnomad was an interesting design and I had big hopes for it to work but they just don't give you enough space. Back to the drawing board I guess I'll just have to live with the old way. Just thought I'd post this so if you were thinking of going in that direction I would rethink it.Before you throw away some money. 

 plug-02.jpg - 137KB

Skip-  It's a sobering thing, and ironic given the forum we are on, but part of the reason these things are dying in actual practice is because more and more, young folks are recreating virtually or choosing to spend their time with a mediated reality. In my day, the problem was too much TV. Stay at home and plant yourself on the couch, veg out till bedtime. Today it is even worse. Seemingly infinite options to waste your time on, and all in your pocket. We seem to prefer to watch others achieve and do, rather than do it ourselves.

However, and in light of what I just wrote, ironically, if it weren't for the internet I would never have discovered the MD or heard the wonderful music it is capable of playing. So there is hope for both the MD and other crafts, maybe even new opportunities for exposure and interest. And yes, I would much rather see people playing an extra fretted dulcimer with 6 strings a discontinuous fretboard and a whammy bar (well maybe not a whammy bar) than not playing a dulcimer at all.

I got my first MD after I was advised to learn more about HD's before trying to build one. I stopped by the Dulcimer Shop in Mt View and bought a McSpadden kit, which I still have. I decided then I needed to learn how to play it. It turned out I'm not into the typical music played on a diatonic MD so I went chromatic. I still have several diatonics although I don't play them. Ironically, I still play a lot of 'MD' music because the folks I jam with play a lot of it.  I use several other instruments though, chording or bass. I am not a musician in any way, just want something to do! 

I'm an old guy and have come to the conclusion that there are a couple of things that affect the 'apparent' demise in the use of MDs, along with a bunch of other 'skills/interests/hobbies'. The folks we see have the time and money [retirees anyone] to to invest in 'outside' interests during the 'work day', and those are the ones we see 'cause we are them. Remember, many of the last few champs are young folks, those in the work force or school. 

John- If it has a slide it isn't an IRISH whistle anymore.  :)

So moving on...."reasons NOT to put a slide on an Irish Whistle".........

My musical background and approach to the instrument are, I think, pretty different from others in this group.  One thing I find impressive is how nice and welcoming (almost) everyone is.  This is quite different from other types of musical communities in which I live and work, where competition and differences of opinion and values can get pretty nasty and even harmful.

As far as the instrument's future, you might find the following interesting.  For the preliminary exams my doctoral students in music composition take, I always have them compose a work for dulcimer.  The reason for this is because I think a professional composer should be able to learn to write for a new and unfamiliar instrument.  I choose dulcimer because it's especially challenging as a new instrument (and because I'm a pretty good judge of what is and isn't playable).

One doesn't need to be able to play an instrument to write for it.  (Such a requirement would make composing music for orchestra impossible for all but a few.). But, in the years I've given this assignment, four of my students have obtained dulcimers and taught themselves to play.  In part, I'm pretty sure it's just because they wanted to do a good job on their exam, but they were also so interested that they just had to have one.

I would also note that many Asian musicians (and audiences) I've worked with (including my wife) really like the instrument and find it works with their musical traditions.  There's reason to hope for the instrument's future.

Have a great rest of the weekend and a great week.

Randy, that Spanish Fandango of yours on YouTube is sweet!  A lovely example of what can be done with a chromatic dulcimer. Thanks for posting.

I personally think it's great to discuss our opinions on dulcimers- whether we're discussing labeling semantics and definitions, or traditional vs modern, or our own preferences and why we have them. If we can't discuss those things here, then where? We can discuss it all without putting down others. Let's continue to share our personal dulcimer experiences and opinions without making judgements on other people who have different opinions than our own. 
I've been a part of practically identical online dulcimer discussions for 25 years, starting with usenet email groups. These discussions are always interesting and stimulating, and I always learn something new from others' posts!

Curmudgeonly:

like or characteristic of a bad-tempered, difficult, cantankerous person........

I don't think anyone here is implying anything other than opinions, and a bit of banter about a subject we all are familiar with, but individually have different thoughts on. 

  From my armchair of vast experience...I see folks who WILL NOT buy or even consider a dulcimer with wooden pegs, yet cry "for shame" if I install mechanical tuners for someone, Same holds for installing, or not, a 6.5 fret. Let alone a hand full more...

I like and welcome the discussions here amongst the "enlightened  ones". But I do see quite a need to put aside the semantics and minutia when talking to the "under 40's", or anyone else that is not a "dulcimer head"  [yet]. Most of whom are looking to play the dulcimer because they like the sweet sound [can you tell with your eyes closed how many frets it has?], or they think it's "cool", or just different. They have hearts yearning for acceptance into the dulcimer crowd, they have hair that's every color other than what God gave them, and self inflicted shrapnel hanging off their faces.... But I see quite a few who really "dig" the dulcimer. They don't know the history, they don't know who Joni Mitchell was [or care]. And how does a creek get crippled? They want to move forward and make their music and their own memories. 

I also see "some" groups that don't want new members..."we like our group" we really don't want them...

So i do understand the fears of the dulcimer fading into further obscurity. 

So by all means, lets dive into all the details here, where love and admiration abound...discussing pegs,frets,and the evils of laminate construction....

Let us also remember when we didn't know what miloxy,milodian,mmi....yea that stuff was... And invite a kid to play, no matter how many frets....it ain't doin' no good hang'n on the wall.

last question....If Stradivarius used Titebond glue, baltic birch plywood, and machine tuners [I think he would have if he had them] What would a violin look like today?

Lisa, I can be curmudgeonly too. But I'll try not to be offended.

The motives of definition have nothing to do with keeping people out or keeping the "club" small. You may wish in the future to be careful in applying motives to what are supposed to be civil and friendly discussions. Feel free to disagree or challenge what I say, but to imply bad motives is out of line, and unwarranted.

I'd like to mention that the boys over at

TTAD- The Traditional Appalachian Dulcimore

accept me as one of their own and I so appreciate it.  I've posted some sketchy stuff there nary a word about this or that ain't the real thing or not.

Edited to change not to nary. I couldn't help it. : )

https://youtu.be/Ja9muThRASc?si=L8hi3ycSm_YUJY3S

I had a somewhat short romance with a chromofone and enjoyed the buzz. 

Hi everybody! Over the past three years I've grown older and more curmudgeonly so I'm jumping back into the discussion to say this: We need to get real. It does not matter how many frets are on a dulcimer if nobody plays dulcimer anymore.

The mountain dulcimer has never been a widely-played instrument. There were not many dulcimers in 1860. Nor in 1900. Not in 1970 and not today. A handful of players and builders have managed to keep the MD alive. Mostly within a limited range of geography and musical genre, but alive nonetheless. You might be OK with this. You might say “good, I don’t want the MD to be popular. I want it to stay special like it always has been.”

That’s a valid opinion. But there is danger here. The more narrowly you define the word “dulcimer” the fewer dulcimers will exist in the world. There’s a point where instruments fall so deep into obscurity that they die out completely. How close to the edge are we, and how close do we wanna get? How many people do you know in real life who play MD? If you attend festivals, how is attendance compared to 20 years ago, and how many people do you see under the age of 40? How often does a stranger walk up to you when you’re playing MD and say, “that’s a ukulele, right?”

We need more dulcimer players. We do not encourage this by arguing semantics. I am so tired of gatekeepers who want to send people away. Rather than slamming the doors in an effort to make “dulcimer” an ever more exclusive club, I propose that we broaden our definitions and welcome everybody. All the players. All the music. All the drones and all the chords. Even all the frets. Better a living tradition than a dead one. Or, in the words of a guy who plays chords on an instrument that will never be confused for a dulcimer, he not busy being born is busy dying.

Thanks, Randy.  That's actually one of the easier listening pieces in the set.  There are some that folks may find scary, as I use some tunings that invite dissonance.

But please elaborate.  What is it about my playing that argues against buying a chromatic?  I hope folk realize that this is a strictly personal decision.  I've heard folk do things on chromatic instruments that impressed me.  I'm just not interested in doing them myself.

I try to listen to something unfamiliar every day.  (I'm semi-retired, so I can make the time.). They're mostly things I'd never dream of doing or couldn't do, but there's always something to learn and enjoy.

Again, have a great weekend, all, and appreciate each others' company in this wonderful community.

I listened Alex. Not easy listening! But you're right your playing is a good reason not to buy a chromofone you got it all right there.

If a few people would post a audio or video of themselves playing a chromaphone that might be a reason not to buy a chtomadic : )

It seems we can all agree that the etymology of the word "dulcimer" relates to sweetness, but etymological origins have only a limited relationship to the evolution of words' meanings.  Take for example, the names of many of our states that have Native American origins.  How many of us even know the original meanings?

I'm happy to grant that sweetness one way many/most of us hear the dulcimer when played in familiar ways.  But we even have a group on this page for folk who like and use amplifiers, pedals, and other gear that produce sounds that are certainly something other than sweet.  Some of that sweetness may also owe to standard tunings and the music they inspire.

As a composer, I like the idea that sweetness is one possibility, but that the dulcimer is capable of quite a range of colors and that these yield many modes of expression.

Here's a piece that I think expresses that range of color and expression.  Three strings, no gadgets, but beautifully recorded to make me sound far better than I really am:

Have a great weekend.  This is a wonderful community.

I bow before thee. 

“Perhaps "dulcimer" is a state of being“
John P. Now that is funny….😂

Perhaps "dulcimer" is a state of being........

....and Strum a lay lees

Well, if the word dulcimer definition means nothing in regard to the instruments name, then we have a real puzzle on our hands. First what does the word mean in relation to the dulcimer..maybe diatonic scale? Or raised fretboard?  It would be hard to build a case for changing the name based on construction. I know some people who hate the sound of a hammered dulcimer as well, still the name seems appropriate and in my estimation the mountain dulcimer sings as sweetly as ever. But, definitions mean something and must matter or our discussions become frivolous and pointless. We are looking at this instrument from a 21st century viewpoint and not as the word was used in previous centuries. We didn’t name it nor can we randomly decide to change the definition. 

Brudar,

"it seems the only characteristic that all share is that the melody string faces the player while the bass strings faces the audience. "

Except for stick dulcimers! :)

Wow, amazing this thread is still alive after 3 years! With all the discussion of what a “real” dulcimer is in the face of discontinuous fretboards and bridges, varieties of stringing patterns and varying number of frets, it seems the only characteristic that all share is that the melody string faces the player while the bass strings faces the audience. 

But then if your right-handed self puts a left-handed acoustic guitar in your lap, would that act make it a six-string chromatic dulcimer?

I agree- "sweet sounding" is a highly personal defining criteria. A good example is a penny whistle-  many find it to be lovely and sweet sounding, while many others view it as unbearably shrill and annoying.

A couple of things about that, with apologies for veering off into banjos (but so many similarities exist between the mtn dulcimer and the banjo- both instruments being 'born' in early America from traditions of other cultures that arrived here)... I just can't help myself--

First to clarify a minor point, the fifth string that was added during the banjo's development was actually the low bass string. The higher/shorter "chanterelle" drone string was there from its very beginnings as a slave-made instrument, it was a rhythm and drone feature of the African folk music and the instruments that were the banjo's ancestors.

Indeed, aside from adding a low bass 5th string, when further form changes were added later on to the basic banjo to enable its being played in other settings and musical genres, out of practicality people applied more descriptive names to those "not quite banjos"- such as banjo mandolin, a tenor or jazz banjo, a banjo uke, octave banjo, etc.  These variations are today considered to be different instruments in their own right, and they definitely need their own names. Why? Because they have significant differences in playing techniques, tunings, and musical uses/settings/applications than the "regular" banjo.
To a casual observer, many of these banjo-y instruments might are described as "banjos" because that's what a lay person sees. But if you put a tenor banjo into the hands of a clawhammer banjo player, they'll have to learn an entirely new way of tuning and all new playing techniques in order to play it. To them it's a different instrument, like comparing a ukulele to a guitar. These are practical and real differences, not merely esthetic ones. Does the same hold true of the diatonically fretted mtn dulcimer and the chromatic mtn dulcimer?  IMHO it kind of debatable.

Lastly, as a person to whom the very early original forms of the banjo are most cherished, I must gently add that the later developments and elaborations of the banjo might be considered by some folks to be the nadir of the banjo's evolution rather than the apex.

Again, my apologies for veering off topic.
But then again, what exactly IS the original topic here in this thread? Reasons to not get a chromatic dulcimer? That's a topic that's ripe for this kind of meandering. It's almost inevitable!

Thanks to Alex for bringing this thread back to the original topic, with some compelling reasons for not getting a chromatic. Although I am capable of playing chromatic instruments, the one chromatic dulcimer in my collection mainly collects dust. Diatonic dulcimers are more fun, and instead of thinking about notes, I just play, focusing on sound and rhythm. Jerry Rockwell has called the dulcimer a musical possibility box, which is an apt description. And if we take Bonnie Carroll at her word, a standard three-course dulcimer has thousands of possible tunings. Let's explore these possibilities instead of getting bogged down in definitions.

Ha! I'm in Alaska. I can't blame the heat!

 "In fact, I know some people who do not find the dulcimer very sweet sounding."................

What a collection of wretched souls they must be.....You must endeavor to widen your circle...

Perhaps it is just the heat and humidity?