Forum Activity for @ken-longfield

Ken Longfield
@ken-longfield
04/02/24 11:55:27AM
1,242 posts

What's the exact difference between a dulcimore and dulcimer


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Thanks, Wally, I misunderstood you. I have Chet Hines' book and quite a few others books like it. I'm sad that I never met Patty Looman but I do have a few tabs Patty made for some of her workshops.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Dusty Turtle
@dusty
04/02/24 11:31:04AM
1,815 posts

What's the exact difference between a dulcimore and dulcimer


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Dan:
Dusty Turtle: I think Ken's correct.  It's pretty clear that all those different spellings of what we now refer to as a dulcimer -- delcymore, delcimer, dulcimer, dulcimore, dulcymore -- reflect local or regional pronunciations of the word.  Especially among people with low literacy rates, few people would have seen the word in print, so there was nothing like a "standard" pronunciation.  In the same way that folk songs varied from one region to another, so would the pronunciation of a word vary.
 

Would doctors and educators be folks of low literacy? Why would they use the term "dulcimore"? 

 

Dan, I seem to have offended you, and for that I am sorry.  I do not consider "dulcimore" a "term" but rather a local pronunciation of the word whose spelling has now been standardized as "dulcimer." All those variants that I list above are clearly different local or regional pronunciations of the same word.  These pronunciations most likely developed in the late 19th century before free and compulsory education in most of the country, so spelling would not have been standardized. But all those variants were clearly referring to the same instrument.

It makes perfect sense that you use the term "dulcimore" for your traditional builds as a way to differentiate them from the modern dulcimers I play (with frets across the entire fretboard, large boxes for a guitar-like sound, extra frets, electronic pickups, etc.). But in 1890, when one person pronounced the word "dulcymore" and another in a nearby region said "delcimer," they were referring to the same instrument.


updated by @dusty: 04/02/24 11:31:43AM
Wally Venable
@wally-venable
04/02/24 09:16:04AM
109 posts

What's the exact difference between a dulcimore and dulcimer


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Well, Bill did a lot to spread the "dulcimore" labels with his books and festivals. I wasn't trying to suggest that he originated it.

There is also "How to Make and Play the Dulcimore by Hines, Chet" from 1972 with several copies currently on eBay.. Again, I think, an attempt to create a trade identity. There were other other "how to make/play a dulcimer" books.

Our local (deceased) guru Patty Looman did an LP with "Dulcimore - Sweet Music" as the title, but that was the hammered variety, and dulcimer was used in the description. She was, by the way, a school teacher as well as a dulcimer teacher.

Ken Longfield
@ken-longfield
04/02/24 08:54:24AM
1,242 posts

What's the exact difference between a dulcimore and dulcimer


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Dan, my comment about Thomas calling them dulcimers comes from a conversation I had with Mike Sloane. Also, both Ralph Lee Smith and Jean Ritchie refer to Thomas as making and selling in dulcimers. I think if he used another name for the instrument that would have appeared in their writings. If there is a specific reference to Uncle Ed using another name, I haven't seen it.

Wally, the name "dulcimore" appears in writing way before Bill Schilling started his club. I think Kimberly Burnette-Dean found that spelling in estate lists she found while researching dulcimer history in southern Virginia and western North Carolina.

Wally Venable
@wally-venable
04/02/24 08:34:08AM
109 posts

What's the exact difference between a dulcimore and dulcimer


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

The label "dulcimore" is sometimes used in the manner of a brand or trade name - i.e. "Dulcimore Dan." His instruments are sold as Dulcimores and should be referred to as such.

Some responsibility might be placed on Bill Schilling and his friends. There are some very well educated and skilled people in that bunch. See the Dulci-More webpage https://www.dulcimore.org/

Dulci-More: Folk & Traditional Musicians is a club that started in January 1993, at the First United Methodist Church of Salem. The purposes of the club are to have fun with folk-style music and to share that music with others. The club meets at 7:00 pm on the first Tuesday and Third Tuesday (note: it was the third Wednesday until January, 2000) of each month just off the sanctuary by the Unity Classroom of the First United Methodist Church of Salem, 244 South Broadway, Salem, OH 44460 (see calendar link for summer meeting locations). All levels of acoustic instrumentalists and singers are always welcome at the meetings to jam, to learn, to listen, or to perform. Meetings are generally run as song circles with most songs or tunes chosen from the Dulci-More Public Domain Songbook with everyone joining in, .....

They are MORE than dulcimer players.

As I have said before, I think much of this confusion is probably from SPOKEN language being moved into print.

Ken Hulme
@ken-hulme
04/02/24 08:34:06AM
2,157 posts

What's the exact difference between a dulcimore and dulcimer


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

"Duckslammer, IIRC comes from a Tom & Missy Strothers ancedote about someone mis-hearing "dulcimer".

Dan
@dan
04/02/24 07:51:20AM
193 posts

What's the exact difference between a dulcimore and dulcimer


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Dusty Turtle:

I think Ken's correct.  It's pretty clear that all those different spellings of what we now refer to as a dulcimer -- delcymore, delcimer, dulcimer, dulcimore, dulcymore -- reflect local or regional pronunciations of the word.  Especially among people with low literacy rates, few people would have seen the word in print, so there was nothing like a "standard" pronunciation.  In the same way that folk songs varied from one region to another, so would the pronunciation of a word vary.


As for dulciwhacker or duckslammer?  confusey


 

Would doctors and educators be folks of low literacy? Why would they use the term "dulcimore"? 

Dan
@dan
04/02/24 07:49:33AM
193 posts

What's the exact difference between a dulcimore and dulcimer


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Ken Longfield:

As far as I am concerned, there is no difference between a dulcimore and a dulcimer. They are different names for the same instrument. C.N. Prichard call the instruments he manufactured "The American Dulcimer." J. E. Thomas called the instrument he made a dulcimer. As to where the name originated, it is anybody's guess. One theory is that mountaineers familiar with the King James Bible new the list of instruments in Daniel. One instrument on that list was dulcimer. Since no one knew what a dulcimer was, they adopted the name for their instrument. (Biblical scholars think the instrument called "dulcimer" is really a reed instrument like a clarinet.) Strumelia already mention that the name may have derived from the Latin for sweet (dulce) and the Greek for sound or song (Melos). Who knows for sure? Pretty much all of the early scholarly literature and much of popular literature refers to the instrument as "dulcimer."

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

 

I've had the opportunity to go through my records and can't find the reference of Uncle Ed using the term "dulcimer". Please share your reference?

Strumelia
@strumelia
04/01/24 09:03:03PM
2,343 posts

If you could have just one dulcimer...


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Glad to hear your eye surgery is behind you, Ken!  coool
Those are two really wonderful dulcimers you have there. 🙌🏼

Ken Hulme
@ken-hulme
04/01/24 03:03:07PM
2,157 posts

Bodhran (Irish Drum)


Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Mountain Mahogany does not grow east of Colorado.  It has a Janka hardness of about 3200 -- roughly the same as the Ebonies.  Makes great noters, nuts & bridges for Mountain dulcimers, tippers for bodhran, musical bones, and similar projects.

Ken Longfield
@ken-longfield
04/01/24 12:55:01PM
1,242 posts

Bodhran (Irish Drum)


Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Wally Venable:

"Mountain Mahogany" is virtually unknown to those of us living east of the Rockies.

 

I've never heard of it living in Pennsylvania. I see that it is very hard and dense. I should make a good tipper. I sure the shillelagh and walking stick are very sturdy.

Ken

"the dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Wally Venable
@wally-venable
04/01/24 10:39:48AM
109 posts

Bodhran (Irish Drum)


Adventures with 'other' instruments...

"Mountain Mahogany" is virtually unknown to those of us living east of the Rockies.

I have some nice, short, Black Cherry planks seasoning in the barn. I split them from short (roughly 30 inch) segments of a fallen tree with a froe.

StudentofRhythm
@studentofrhythm
04/01/24 09:13:09AM
20 posts

Bodhran (Irish Drum)


Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Mountain mahogany grows in the area where I live.  It's lovely wood, I like its properties of hardness and density, and of course it's relatively easy to get, without having to spend extra.  A few years ago I found a stand close to my mother's house; in it was a couple of dead trees.  I harvested them and from them have so far made a shillelagh, a tall walking staff, and now I'm making this tipper.

Wally Venable
@wally-venable
04/01/24 08:44:24AM
109 posts

Bodhran (Irish Drum)


Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Maybe you can finish this today, but why Mountain Mahogany? I should think a limb of Swamp Mahogany would work as well.

Robin Thompson
@robin-thompson
03/31/24 07:44:22PM
1,507 posts

International Appalachian Dulcimer Day


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

KenL, if you didn't have time to make a recording, you should've taken a picture of your workbench to post for IADD!  I believe you worked on the dulcimers yet photographic proof may be needed.  grin  

StudentofRhythm
@studentofrhythm
03/31/24 07:32:13PM
20 posts

Bodhran (Irish Drum)


Adventures with 'other' instruments...

I started playing bodhran about 12 years ago, mostly solo along with recordings, though there have been some local groups that I've been playing with occasionally for the past couple of years.  My first one broke last summer and I got a new one a little while later, after carving a tipper from a cherry branch.  Now I'm carving another tipper from a mountain mahogany branch.

jazzc
@jazzc
03/31/24 05:33:58PM
14 posts

If you could have just one dulcimer...


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Ken Hulme:

Hi @jazzc...  Had cataract surgery yesterday so i couldn't take any pix until today... Here are my two favorite Traditional dulcemores:   
Uncle Ed Thomas replica Kentucky Hourglass by John Knopf on the bottom. Traditionally painted flat black. 
Above is my Virginia style Hogfiddle by Bobby Ratliff
.
Both have the high-silvery sound of traditional dulcemores rather than the more mellow sound of modern dulcimers

Very cool!  
Ken Longfield
@ken-longfield
03/31/24 11:33:20AM
1,242 posts

International Appalachian Dulcimer Day


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

From observing and listening to the IADD posts on Facebook, I say that the movement to celebrate our beloved instrument is gaining ground.  Thank you to all who posted offerings for this day. I celebrated by working on a few dulcimers I have in my shop for repairs. I did play a few tunes.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."


updated by @ken-longfield: 03/31/24 11:34:27AM
Robin Thompson
@robin-thompson
03/30/24 06:30:02PM
1,507 posts

International Appalachian Dulcimer Day


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I think I've listened to music from 4 countries on this International Appalachian Dulcimer Day.  grphug In addition to friends who shared audio or video here, there was more participation on Facebook than I might've imagined.  The spread of the love of the Appalachian dulcimer around the world is, truly, a beautiful thing.    

I hope y'all have nice weather for your 20 April music circle, Leo!  

Leo Kretzner
@leo-kretzner
03/30/24 04:22:05PM
36 posts

International Appalachian Dulcimer Day


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Yay Dusty for so nicely imagining a sunny day today in California!! If only. 

So many involved in a potential jam today were going to be busy - and maybe they were prescient as things have turned out. The delayed music event will be on Sat April 20, noon-3, in Shelton Park, Claremont, with Doug Thomson leading the songs-and-tunes circle. Bring chair and instruments! All instruments welcomed of course, even hammered dulcimers, lol.

Happy Mountain Dulcimer Days!!

Dusty Turtle
@dusty
03/30/24 10:46:55AM
1,815 posts

International Appalachian Dulcimer Day


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Happy IADD, everyone!  Here is a short rendition of "Tune for a Sunny Day" written by Susan Reid of the Vermont Fiddle Orchestra.  I found a simple demo of the tune on the fiddle and wrote a letter to Susan at the asking permission to share it on the dulcimer.  I was delighted about a month later to hear from her.


updated by @dusty: 03/30/24 11:15:42AM
Robin Thompson
@robin-thompson
03/30/24 08:05:07AM
1,507 posts

International Appalachian Dulcimer Day


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Happy International Appalachian Dulcimer Day, friends!  

I just listened to the first offering to celebrate from @macaodha and it's a jewel.  I haven't uploaded a tune yet, yet will soon.    

Ken Hulme
@ken-hulme
03/29/24 10:08:20AM
2,157 posts

If you could have just one dulcimer...


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Thanx John,  Fixed it.  y new eye isn't quite up to par yet... another few days before the swelling goes down.  

John C. Knopf
@john-c-knopf
03/29/24 09:47:51AM
429 posts

If you could have just one dulcimer...


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

It's t'other way around, Ken!  VA at the top, KY at the bottom.  That Ed Thomas sure is a beauty!

Ken Hulme
@ken-hulme
03/29/24 09:14:51AM
2,157 posts

If you could have just one dulcimer...


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Hi @jazzc...  Had cataract surgery yesterday so i couldn't take any pix until today... Here are my two favorite Traditional dulcemores:   
Uncle Ed Thomas replica Kentucky Hourglass by John Knopf on the bottom. Traditionally painted flat black. 
Above is my Virginia style Hogfiddle by Bobby Ratliff
.
Both have the high-silvery sound of traditional dulcemores rather than the more mellow sound of modern dulcimers


Favs2.jpg Favs2.jpg - 62KB

updated by @ken-hulme: 03/29/24 10:07:20AM
Strumelia
@strumelia
03/28/24 11:13:51AM
2,343 posts

Introduce Yourself!


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

That's too bad- the music is great, and it's good exercise!  jive mrdance

Jerry Posner
@jerry-posner
03/28/24 11:04:30AM
14 posts

Introduce Yourself!


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I do live close to Dewey Hall ... but I don't dance :-) 


updated by @jerry-posner: 03/28/24 11:05:40AM
Strumelia
@strumelia
03/28/24 10:35:52AM
2,343 posts

Introduce Yourself!


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Hi Jerry... so you waited twelve years to introduce yourself here?  biglaugh

Do you go to the monthly contra dance at Dewey Hall?

Jerry Posner
@jerry-posner
03/28/24 08:56:56AM
14 posts

Introduce Yourself!


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Hi, I've been a member here for a while, though somewhat inactive, so I thought I reintroduce myself.  I live in the Berkshires of Western Mass (right down the street from the Magic Fluke Company, known to ukulele players ... and I am also one of those)!  I've been playing and collecting dulcimers since the late 60's.  Bought my first one from Hank Levin at the House of Musical Traditions, then on St. Marks Place in NYC (I grew up in Northern NJ).  Here in the Berkshires, there is a busking program in the summer, and I've been happy to participate on dulcimer, ukulele and autoharp.  I work as a lecturer, so-called motivational speaker, training specialist and consultant.  I particularly speak about intentional gratitude practices, and every Tuesday I post a "GratiTuesday" quotation or gratitude reminder on my blog and various other sites. I have always liked the dulcimer ... a lot!

Robin Thompson
@robin-thompson
03/28/24 06:45:06AM
1,507 posts

International Appalachian Dulcimer Day


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Yay, @dusty!  I hope lots of folks do the same, too!   

We have an audio recorded and uploaded and will make it "Public" on IADD.  party2

Dusty Turtle
@dusty
03/27/24 11:22:09PM
1,815 posts

International Appalachian Dulcimer Day


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I just recorded a video. I'll be sharing it with y'all this Saturday. I hope lots of you do the same.  Happy IADD! pimento

jazzc
@jazzc
03/27/24 12:29:02PM
14 posts

If you could have just one dulcimer...


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Ken Hulme:

Either my Uncle Ed Thomas traditional dulcemore replica by John Knopf; or my  traditional Virginia style Hogfiddle by Bobby Ratliff,  Both with staple frets under the melody string and plain (no 6+) diatonic fret layout.  

Cool.  Have you ever posted pics of them?  I'd love to see them!
jazzc
@jazzc
03/27/24 12:28:01PM
14 posts

If you could have just one dulcimer...


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Susie:

If I had to pick just one, it would be my Folkcraft Custom with a butternut top and walnut back and sides. It has the fret layout I love, a 27" vsl, and a Fishman Prefix Pro Blend pickup with a built in preamp. It has other custom features like the dolphin sound holes and a maple dolphin inlay at the 5th fret and a galax back.  It's everything I would ever want and has a beautiful tone.


1000001419.jpg


What a beauty!
Ken Hulme
@ken-hulme
03/27/24 10:51:32AM
2,157 posts

If you could have just one dulcimer...


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Either my Uncle Ed Thomas traditional dulcemore replica by John Knopf; or my  traditional Virginia style Hogfiddle by Bobby Ratliff,  Both with staple frets under the melody string and plain (no 6+) diatonic fret layout.  

Robin Thompson
@robin-thompson
03/27/24 10:33:48AM
1,507 posts

What's the exact difference between a dulcimore and dulcimer


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

In her HomeSpun instructional recording, Jean lists many names for the lap-held zither and says its names come from the parts of the country in which you find it.  She goes on to say that for her lessons she's just going to call it a dulcimer.  

Strumelia
@strumelia
03/27/24 10:29:19AM
2,343 posts

What's the exact difference between a dulcimore and dulcimer


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Although I agree with some of your points Wally, as a native born Brooklyn girl raised in Greenwich Village in the 1950s and 60s, and my parents having been 'Bohemians' there who regularly had gatherings of musical friends at home... I must maintain that not a soul ever uttered a word like " Dul-sim-o-wah". duck   Though I've heard many a Brooklyn and Bronx accent while growing up, nobody we knew ever would have said that word remotely that way. I must object!  Your examples sound to me a bit more like maybe.. Bostonian?  😹
Any Appalachian dulcimers in the Greenwich Village or Brooklyn areas in the 1940s-early60s would have been traced either directly or indirectly to Jean Ritchie's arrival in NYC in 1946 from Kentucky (after getting her college degree), and her influence in introducing the humble rural instrument to the modern urban folk revival setting. Even 'Uncle' Ed Thomas (1850-1933) and Jean Ritchie's father Balis and their whole family in the Kentucky mountains called their instruments "dulcimers".


updated by @strumelia: 03/27/24 10:30:54AM
Wally Venable
@wally-venable
03/27/24 09:47:55AM
109 posts

What's the exact difference between a dulcimore and dulcimer


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

In addition to differences in spelling, there were differences in pronunciation of the name of our instrument. This almost certainly resulted in differences in how it was written.

Some of our earliest references to the instrument come from estate and sales records in county courthouse archives. I can imagine that one of these might well have resulted from a visit to a deceased's home. Looking over the fireplace, the local says "One pit-chuh of the fahm, one of Unkel Har-rah, an' a dulcimah." The town raised attorney writes "1 large painting - $4, 1 small portrait - 45¢, 1 dulcimer - $1.25" the later based on his knowledge of the King James bible, not the object. The written note is in pencil and later transcribed in ink to the public record book.

I can imagine the use of "dulcimore" as having come from the early 1960s folk culture through some proponent in Brooklyn or Grenwich Villiage calling his pride and joy a "Dul-sim-o-wah."

Oral language variations are what they are.

Do we actually have any evidence for early use of the name "dulcimore" by our pioneer scholars? Jean Ritchie's first work is "The Dulcimer Book." Skimming through Ralph Lee Smith's "The Story of the Dulcimer" (2nd ed.) I don't see the word. I don't have a copy of Allen Smith's "A Catalogue of Pre-Revival Appalachian Dulcimers" at hand, but his preference is clearly shown in the title.

By the  way, I just noticed that the spell-checker for this website flags "dulcimore" as a potential error.

Susie
@susie
03/26/24 06:19:02PM
509 posts

If you could have just one dulcimer...


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

If I had to pick just one, it would be my Folkcraft Custom with a butternut top and walnut back and sides. It has the fret layout I love, a 27" vsl, and a Fishman Prefix Pro Blend pickup with a built in preamp. It has other custom features like the dolphin sound holes and a maple dolphin inlay at the 5th fret and a galax back.  It's everything I would ever want and has a beautiful tone.

1000001419.jpg


updated by @susie: 03/26/24 06:26:57PM
Pete Babechuk
@pete-babechuk
03/26/24 05:31:16PM
3 posts

If you could have just one dulcimer...


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Silverstrings:

I already own my dream dulcimer which is a Blue Lion Acoustic Jam dulcimer. Like Robin’s dulcimer, it is made with a western red cedar soundboard and walnut back and sides. The VSL is 26.25.” I play mostly fingerpicking chord style. The Blue Lion dulcimer is great for that. I guess having some beautiful inlay work would make it even more dreamy. Since acquiring the Blue Lion AJ dulcimer, my playing has greatly improved.

 

I looked up the dulcimer you have. Beautiful instrument. So glad to hear your playing improved so much since you acquired it.

  39