Forum Activity for @john-c-knopf

dulcimer kit

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

The reason I was so sure of the provenance of the dulcimer kit is that I used to study (and drool over) the brochures and catalogs that The Dulcimer Shoppe put out in the early 70s.  And I remembered the shape of that model dulcimer (T8-W), and the non-completed f-holes, which drove me nuts!  The builder had to complete the cutouts if  they wanted proper f-holes. 

I believe this dulcimer kit shares most of the parts of the M8-W kit that I bought as my FIRST dulcimer in 1974!  That's right-- I've built all shapes and sizes of these critters for 50 years now.

dulcimer kit

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I am unable to take any more photos, it was someone in the audience we were playing Christmas music for - who had it and I was speaking with him about it. 

(Dulcimer Factory instrument ) they usually have a fatter sound box and a wider fret board but yes, a similar head.

It maybe too much of a mystery without me having it to further check & or photo

thanks guys

dulcimer kit

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Okay, time to eat my words and apologize to John for doubting him. I went back and looked at McSpadden catalogs for the late 1970s and early 1980s and found that McSpadden produced a T-K4 kit based on there T-9W dulcimer. The catalog photo, which isn't very good, strongly resembles your dulcimer Marg. It should be approximately  35 1/2" long, 5 7/8" wide, and 2 1/2" deep. It describes the peg head as having "a single leprechaun shoe curl. 

John, I think you nailed it. Again my apology for ever doubting you. You the man!

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

dulcimer kit

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Your picture of the "bridge" end doesn't show enough to make good guesses about it. Two photos, top and side, could help.

A straight on side shot of the head might also help. There are, I think, quite a number of variations of that "leprechaun" shape when all builders are considered. We might match the profile.

The tuner set-up interests me. The wholes are drilled straight through as though violin pegs were to be used, but the tuners installed are banjo or ukulele type.

dulcimer kit

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Marg, there really isn't a nut as the zero fret serves that purpose. It is a string guide to keep the strings in the right places. I think Wally may be on to something. The peg head looks similar to one I had on a Dulcimer Factory instrument (which I no longer have). On to further searching.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

What Are You Working On?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Thank you, @marg !  

Wishing you & all a lovely holiday season! 

What Are You Working On?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

dulcimer kit

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

ken

( sound holes appear to un-McSpadden )  and the wood.

What about the nut & bridge, can  the way, they are made - ring any bells

thanks, everyone for the possibilities

dulcimer kit

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Hill Country Dulcimers, successor to The Dulcimer Factory (TDF), used a variation of that style head and a zero fret in 2002. Possibly TDF also made a model in this style. I think both produced kits.

See the following for an example.

https://reverb.com/item/60222347-vintage-handcrafted-hill-country-dulcimer-fredericksburg-tx-hummingbird

dulcimer kit

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I'm not as sure as John is about the provenance of this dulcimer. The only thing that speaks McSpadden to me is the zero fret. I'll need to look through my McSpadden material to check. I don't know that much about the years from1962 - 1974, so I'll see what is in the files. The material used in making this instrument and sound holes appear to un-McSpadden like to me.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

dulcimer kit

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Marg, that is, for sure, an early teardrop kit from McSpadden, which was known as The Dulcimer Shoppe back then.  The shape of the scroll was called a leprechaun curl, and the other kits had them also until they switched to guitar-type pegheads.

dulcimer kit

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

The group I play with was preforming today and someone from the audience had  - what looks like - it was make from a kit. Who ever made it did a very good job but there is no label or any markings that would give me a hint on maybe the kit used. 

I only have these few photos, the sound hold is very different, maybe a clue. It does have the 6.5 but the older screw tuners & small nails for the string pegs. Also no violin lip/ smooth straight sides. 

Any guesses would be great

thanks

updated by @marg: 12/17/24 04:10:14PM

Recent acquisitions...

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Very nice collection, Peter. At least while the McSpadden's owned the company no dulcimer was made by an individual. According to Lynn McSpadden the person who was responsible for gluing on the backs on a particular day was the one who signed the dulcimer. By that time someone made the fretboard, another worked on bending the sides, another gluing the sides to peg head and tail piece, etc. The last glue up was adding the back to the already completed top, sides, fret board, tail piece, and peg head glue up. After that someone else did the final sanding. Then there was the next step of applying the lacquer finish by someone else. There were at least four or five people who signed dulcimers initially. I think Richard Stolze and Larry McSpadden continued to work for the Dulcimer Shoppe after it was sold, so they continued to sign instruments. If people want to believe that one person made their dulcimer, they can do so, but that simply wasn't the case with McSpadden dulcimers.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Recent acquisitions...

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Nice collection Stoltze McSpaddens. It's such a blessing that you have dulcimers and a heart to lend them. We have a number of great dulcimer folks on the forum who have loaners. Its the best way to share our love of the dulcimer with others to allow them to become addicted like we are. Thanks for sharing.

Optimum spacing for the two melody strings

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Wally, thanks for the info, especially about having the bridge inside edge the highest.  I wondered about that since the breakover point in the bridge would be hard to determine with a flat slot!

Recent acquisitions...

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

All of these four McSpadden Dulcimers have one thing in common: they all were made by Richard Stoltze.
When I bought my first Mountain Dulcimer from The Dulcimer Shoppe in October 2012, it was the first time I heard of Richard Stoltze. He was the maker of my beautiful 4FHWW with ebony fretboard (the one on the very right). Still today I am happy about the perfect craftsmanship, the beautiful black walnut wood and most of all of the warm and clear sound.

I know that many hands work on a McSpadden dulcimer. Anyway, there's always one responsible maker who puts the instrument together. The surname "Stoltze" is probably related to the German word "Stolz" which means "pride". You can be very proud of all the great instruments you made during your working life. They still make thousands of people happy. Thank you,  Richard Stoltze 🤗

Recently I bought three pre-used McSpadden dulcimers. All of them are in very good condition. I want to be able to lend a good instrument to interested people. From left to right you can see:

FM12-W No. 17745, no date given
T34-W No. 29808 July 1994
SH12WW No. 48864 June 2005
4FHWW/e No. 57739 October 2012

Optimum spacing for the two melody strings

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

You don't need to buy a replacement blank made of bone, or other super-hard material. Those can be a good choice, but they are hard to shape.

You can use hard wood. that is easier to shape with sandpaper. You can start with a longer piece to make it easier to hold.

It is important to properly slope the slots, not just space them correctly. The inside edges need to be higher. The slope may not be readily visible on the original.

The slope or curvature of the top isn't musically important.

By the way, I don't think the question of a "zero fret" has been raised. If you have one, the "nut" is just a spacer, and all this discussion is irrelevant at the head end.

Optimum spacing for the two melody strings

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

It finally dawned on me that the octave fret (7th fret) has to be dead center as to the VSL or nothing will be right!  So, as you indicated, no change to the VSL or it will be a mess!  Thank you all!

Optimum spacing for the two melody strings

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Also, if you were to get a nut of a different thickness, which I don't recommend until you understand the instrument better, the most important thing is that the length of the VSL isnt changed. Under no circumstances should a new nut and bridge cause the VSL to become any longer or shorter. A new nut and bridge should snugly fit against the inside edges of the slots from the old nut and bridge.

Optimum spacing for the two melody strings

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

 
There isnt a steadfast answer, because if the strings are at a higher tension, they can allow a smaller space, whereas at a lower tension they need more space. Also, super glue has been mass produced since the 60s, but it is not preferable. If you were to fill in the slots, there is an old trick of filling slots with baking soda, then carefully dripping on superglue, which creates a very strong compound. Also, filling the slots with sawdust and adding wood glue can work well. Sawdust and wood flue is more aesthetic, whereas baking soda and superglue is much stronger.
updated by @nate: 12/16/24 02:29:29AM

Optimum spacing for the two melody strings

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Thanks for the info and Merry Christmas!

Optimum spacing for the two melody strings

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I've used Franklin Titebond wood glue for years and am happy with it,  I can heat a bad joint and pop it open quite easily if needed.  And it's quite strong for my purposes.

Optimum spacing for the two melody strings

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I have a video from McSpadden produced in the mid 1970s where Lynn McSpadden says that used aliphatic resin glue in building his dulcimers. This is what I used when I made my first few dulcimers around that time. It came in a can as a powder which you mixed with a prescribed amount of water. Of course, you could make it as thin or thick as you liked, but the thicker you made it caused the glue to crystalize creating weak joints.

Lynn began making a dulcimer in 1962 and finished it in 1963. I don't remember him ever telling me that he used hide glue.

White Elmer's glue has a polyvinyl acetate base. The yellow wood glues contains less water and is aliphatic resin based.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Optimum spacing for the two melody strings

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Ken Longfield said "Back in 1974 I would guess that McSpadden recommended using a wood glue like Original Titebond or Elmer's Wood Glue."

I would agree as far as kit instructions go.

The "factory team," including kit assemblers, might well have been using hot hide glue mixed from powder.

see: http://www.makingtheviolin.com/Glues

Most other wood glues for serious work only became available after about 1950, and the traditional stuff still has a following, partly because it can be disassembled with modest heat.

Optimum spacing for the two melody strings

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Back in 1974 I would guess that McSpadden recommended using a wood glue like Original Titebond or Elmer's Wood Glue. As John says, they'd only have a drop or two of glue coming from the factory, but if this is a home assembled kit, it is difficult to know what glue was used. I could be white Elmer's glue which makes it very easy to disassemble. You might check at Stew-Mac to see what nut blanks they have available. I'm sure you can find something that will fit your dulcimer. You want to the surface of the nut butting up against the fret side of the slot. If it were to butt up against the peg head side you would be changing the VSL and throwing the intonation of the strings out of whack.

John's suggestion of check at a Guitar Center or local music shop for a nut blank is also a good idea. You won't pay shipping that way.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Optimum spacing for the two melody strings

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I'd guess the McSpaddens used wood glue for assembly.  I don't think super glue was "a thing" way back then.

If the nut and bridge were glued in the traditional way, they'd only have a drop or two of glue holding them into their slots, making them easier to remove with a sideways tap of a hammer as mentioned below.  

You don't want to use a nut blank of different thickness than that of the original one.  You'd be asking for trouble.  See if a guitar shop like Guitar Center sells something you could use.  And mask-up if you cut bone, as it's nasty stuff to breathe!

Optimum spacing for the two melody strings

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Thanks for these ideas!  After Christmas I will probably try replacing the bridge and nut.  Did the 1974 McSpadden kits use wood glue or super glue?  Will the "rap" work with either, or just the super glue?  My current nut and bridge are both just under 5mm wide.  I noticed the Delrin replacements are 1/8 inch (3.175mm).  Would centering in the slot provide the correct breakover or should I move the Delrin up against the slot wall toward the fretboard?  The difference might not be noticeable as long as I stay perpendicular to the strings.  Thanks again!

Optimum spacing for the two melody strings

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I agree with John on the 1/8" spacing. Any closer and you are sure to have problems. Depending upon the glue used your should be able to remove the bridge with either water/heat for wood glue or a sharp side ways rap with a hammer for super glue. In the first method I use a little water placed along the bridge where it meet the slot it is in and then use a heat gun to soften the glue. As the glue softens I can pry the bridge out of the slot. In the second method I use a piece of wood the width of the nut, place it against one side of the nut, then hit the wood sharply with a hammer. It doesn't have to be hard hit. Make sure you have the dulcimer securely clamped in place so it doesn't move when you hit the bridge. On hourglass dulcimers I place the dulcimer on its side and can put my right arm in its waist while holding the stick on the bridge. Then I can give it rap with a hammer. Be careful.

I have used very fine wood particles which I save from sanding. I have small bottles of ebony, rosewood, walnut, maple, and oak dust which I use on corresponding bridges. The finer the wood dust, the better. Even though it will harden quickly, I let it set for an hour or so before trying to add new slots.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Optimum spacing for the two melody strings

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Hello!  The generally-accepted spacing between melody strings is 1/8" or so.  It can be less, but there's a danger that the strings might touch each other when vibrating if they're tuned to a low note, and they get "floppy".  Professional guitar repairmen use a combination of (believe it or not) super glue and baking soda to repair or fill gaps in bone or plastic nuts. First the gap is slightly overfilled with a dab of baking soda, then a tiny amount of super glue is added to bind it all together.  The resulting material is very strong, and must be trimmed back with a file.  Setting time is nearly instantaneous!  Be careful!

Optimum spacing for the two melody strings

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Is there an optimum spacing for the two melody strings, or at least a minimum spacing that would avoid the strings vibrating and touching each other?  In general, can existing slots in the bridge and nut be filled in with super glue, wood putty, or something, such that new slots can be cut using different spacing?  There may be a partial overlap of the new slot to the old.  The strings will be .010's.  My bridge and nut are glued in so replacing them would not be fun! Thanks!

1981 Jeremy Seeger Dulcimer

FOR SALE:instruments/music items/CDs/Wanted to Buy...

There are many players these days however who look for and love the traditional style of dulcimer and dulcimer playing style. Personally, I hope this beautiful dulcimer remains just the way it is without being 'modernized' (geared tuners installed and extra frets added). There will be someone to cherish it and play it in the old way.
Jud, if you are thinking about your kids dealing with it, consider tucking in a little note with the instrument explaining a few things about it that you have learned. Just a paragraph or two, would be so helpful to your kids in the future, and would help steer the dulcimer in the right direction in the future.

1981 Jeremy Seeger Dulcimer

FOR SALE:instruments/music items/CDs/Wanted to Buy...

Most current day mountain dulcimer players are more interested in an instrument which is built to play chords and or finger pick. Jeremy's dulcimers from the era of the '80's were better for noter drone style playing, or sometimes called traditional style playing. It is a lovely instrument.

1981 Jeremy Seeger Dulcimer

FOR SALE:instruments/music items/CDs/Wanted to Buy...

Thanks for the comments, everyone. Yes, it's simple and elegant! It seems like this style of dulcimer is not really an in-demand instrument for playing, so I'll likely hang on to it in case I ever bump into someone local who knew Jeremy and may appreciate its vector through the universe. Worst case (or best case if I'm doing the math right) in 40 years my kids can deal with it when they clean out my house! 😜

Confused about strings gauge reccomendations...

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Second the suggestion to buy a number of single strings and experiment. It's what I did, and while it is a pain at first, it's the easiest way to find what you like. As Dusty says, there's not a lot of practical difference between the two manufacturers' recommendations, but , your personal playing style may introduce differences that neither you nor the manufacturer could have anticipated. And, your needs can change. If you have sensitive fingers or hand problems, you may choose to start lighter and see if you can manage a heavier set (or like the sound of one) later on.

One issue with shorter VSLs is that the heavier gauge bass strings can lose some of their resonance on the higher notes (if you play chord-melody style or your finger dancing goes across the strings). That's one reason I ended up using a .020 gauge on my bass--it hit the right balance both ways. Not so light as to make extraneous sounds, but not too heavy to vibrate nicely a bit further up the scale. Plus, when played as a drone, it has a particularly nice rich, clean sound. 

For single strings (or bargain packs), the nice people here pointed me to juststrings.com , which I can now recommend in turn.

 

WNCDC Free Emailed Newsletter - Help

Dulcimer Resources:TABS/Books/websites/DVDs

Western North Carolina Dulcimer Collective - Free Emailed Newsletter - I need your Help!

I switched computers last week and managed to lose my entire contact list.  This included the email addresses for everyone who subscribed to the free WNCDC emailed newsletter...

If you would like to continue receiving the free emailed newsletter (or start, if you never did), click on the "More Information" button at https://wncdc.org/ .  Then click on my email address and it will open an email to me. Send me a note and I'll get you on the list.

The next free newsletter will be sent in early January. Thanks!

Steve Smith, WNCDC

updated by @steve-smith: 12/08/24 10:46:11PM

Bowed Psaltery

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

No problem. I joined a BP Facebook group. I see Donna is a member there. I posted there asking about the forum. Thanks for allowing me to run it past you.

updated by @susie: 12/08/24 02:57:29PM

Bowed Psaltery

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Susie, I never really knew Donna. When FOTMD and Donna's Psaltery forums were both on Ning servers, Donna and I compared notes once or twice, many years ago. I'm sorry you are having trouble contacting her or getting her forum to work. I wish i could do more, but alas.

updated by @strumelia: 12/08/24 02:36:14PM

Bowed Psaltery

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

I've tried contacting Donna. I've also tried requesting a password reset, but that didn't work. Looks like signing up can only be done through a Google or Facebook login. I think I've done all I can.  I appreciate your ideas...I also wondered if you knew Donna or if the forum is active. I guess I'll wait and see if I hear anything. Thank you!

updated by @susie: 12/08/24 02:58:01PM

Bowed Psaltery

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Hi Susie,

I see on that site of Donna's that there are events listed from late 2023, so maybe its stil active.

I see links at the bottom of their home page to contact the owner directly- have you tried that?  Also, you can try creating a new account in oder to get in. (you could always get the admin to delete a duplicate account later once you are activated). And also- I've had trouble in years past with logging in on places online by using my Google account. Is there another choice besides using Google when logging in?

updated by @strumelia: 12/08/24 12:29:28PM

Bowed Psaltery

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

 

Lisa,

Sorry about reviving this old thread, but I wanted to ask you....Do you know if Donna is still supporting the psalterystrings.com forum? I tried logging in using Google to join the forum, and it stated that my member sign-up request has been sent, but I haven't heard anything back. 

I'd love to join that forum (if it's still active), as I pursue the BP further (giving another shot at it). I ended up selling my previous BP, but have a new one on order from Master Works.

Thanks!

updated by @susie: 12/08/24 12:06:09PM