Malicorne, the most famous French folk band is touring again with a new split including founder members Gabriel Yacoub, Marie Sauvet, and Laurent Vercambre. Hurdy-gurdy, nickelharpa ... and dulcimer!
http://concert.arte.tv/fr/malicorne-au-paleo
Hi marg. I play in CGC all the time. I did want to correct one little thing if you are going to be trying some of these. My friend sings in Bflat so I tune to B flat -F - Bflat a lot.if you run to B it will have to be B-F#-B. One other tip. If you have been tuned to D for awhile your strings will be slack if you tune down. A new set will fix that. I tune one in D and one in C so I don't have to change often. A lot of the really old books were written in C. Understanding that DAD is not a tuning but rather a mixolydian tuning in the key of D makes it a little easier to understand.
Key of F. Aeolian would be F c eb. Very risky if your vsl is greater than 26". Dorian is F c bb. I have never played in F. So others might correct me on this. I really like dorian, just avoid the 6+ fret... Robert.
Yes Marg, please continue to ask questions, those of us who have little or no musical experience at times don't know what question or how to ask a question.
There are many of these types of discussions I study and refer back too, take notes on so, I will gain at my understanding of my dulcimer and how to play and tune it. Many of us only have the folks on this site to help us learn.
I think we would be surprised how many new players pour over old disscussions to gain knowledge and not know what to ask.
I am sure I will have questions, even with all the many answers - you are right, depends on the way they are explain ... different angles. When the right way for me to understand is stated and sometimes several times, I finnally start to see.
;-)
Marg--you thanked us "for answering what must seem to you as very simple silly questions ", but I think your questions are very helpful--not just to you, but to others who are struggling with the same issues, as well those of us attempting to give helpful answers. I keep checking back to see if others chiming in are agreeing or disagreeing with what I've said--and if they're disagreeing, then I need to find out why and decide if we're both right, but just explaining it from a different angle. So, by all means keep asking questions like these!
Thanks to all of you, I am learning a good bit from this discussion.
I e-mailed my dulcimer group I play with last night, if they would like to change tunings to CGc. I am waiting to hear from them but I have the dulciborn tuned to CGc - not the one I take to practice so I'm good with playing with the group in DAd, that's what I am tuned to on my John Naylor dulcimer and the one I used with the group.
I have learned a lot from you guys, so thanks again for answering what must seem to you as very simple silly questions - but for me your answers are hugh breakthroughs, so many of the discussions are Amazing Discoveries for me.
If a group is playing instruments tuned to the keynote of D for example -- usually DAd -- then, technically you can play in any other "key of D" tuning (DAA, DAC, DAG, etc) and sound as if you are part of the group. You won't necessarily be playing the same notes as the others -- you'll often be creating your own "part" with notes that will blend with the others. But because you're all in a given keynote (say D) then it all can sound good together. I often play N&D style in the DAA or Ddd tuning while the group around me plays chords in DAd. I usually play the same notes as they do, but not on the same frets. If you're just beginning it is most helpful to you to play in the same tuning as the rest.
If everyone else is tuned to DAd and you're tuned to CGc or EBe it just isn't going to sound right. You'd all be playing the same frets, but not the same notes and it could sound rather bad!
Marg said "One more question, - if I can play DAd in all the (Mixolydian Modal Tunings)"
As I said above: You can use DAd tab to play ANY of the Mixolydian Modal Tunings: AEa, BFb, CGc, DAd, EBe, FCf, GDg
"...play DAd in all the (Mixolydian Modal Tunings) is a non sequiteur
You can't play DAd if others are tuned to GCc, or vice versa. Trust it will sound "not good"!
Thanks all! Tis very interesting as I am playing the same fret numbers for each tuning. Do both tunings give one the Key of F? That still confuses me in my little knowledge of music. I haven't looked at the notes used yet, but will in a couple days. We hava a gig tomorrow and I teach on Wed. Retirement and music provide a full life for me.
William, Great idea. Do you have any photos you can share of one of your boards?
Cynthia, I've been to your part of the country, and a chainsaw is a must-own item for sure. Beautiful country!
What a great idea Robin! My Snark clip is always slipping off the tuning head, and it's in the way of the middle string tuning knob. It has been quite annoying. My dulcimer has flower petal sound holes, so the Snark won't sit in any of the sound holes. I popped the clip off, and left the Snark "stem" attached to stick into one of the sound holes. It doesn't lay flat, but won't fall off because the stem is in the hole. I compared the tunings of each string at the tuning head, and the sound hole, and it is the same. Thanks for a great idea that ends my tuning frustration. 
Very true Jan. For those of us who like to sing in Bb and F (not uncommon at all) then banjo, mandolin and dulcimer do present a few 'challenges' 
Cynthia, love this new instrument of yours! Thanks for showing it to us and playing and singing, too! And, yes, if I ever got up to your neck of the woods (I'm currently in AZ), I'd watch out for the chainsaw in the doorway!
Robin--and not just what sounds best, but you can also consider what fits your vocal range!
Hi Nancy,
The 6+ fret sort of gets in the way of displaying the true difference between the 2 tunings of DAC and DAG. DAC is the Aeolian scale (play the 6th fret not the 6+ as this will give the Dorian scale) and DAG is the Dorian scale (again use the 6th fret not the 6+ as this will give the Mixolidian scale). It is all far more obvious to see the difference on a dulcimer without any extra frets.
Regarding the better tone you are hearing in DAG: Every dulcimer and set-up is different in this respect. We do tend to be a little stuck in our ways by always tuning to the key of D and DAd in general, whereas tuning to a key a little higher to say D#, E of F (careful not to break strings) or a little lower to C or B can bring out a different voice from your instrument. Also, as you have found, using different modal tunings can bring out different voices from our little box of delights! If you are not playing with other folks then it doesn't matter what pitch you are tuned to, so you can play around and find out what sounds best on your particular instrument.
Robin
Marg asked, "If I am playing with a group, do I need to be tune in DAd or can I be in any of the keys as long as I am playing the same DAd tab?"
I know you asked this question at the end of a long day...if you thought about it, you'd realize that if they're playing a song that starts on D, then you'd better be on a D, too, or it will sound pretty bad. You mentioned wanting to practice songs with changing the tunings to hear the difference in the sounds (and it would be "like a new song" every time)...well just imagine that your friend was practicing with you...but they never changed their tuning when you did. Even though the 2 of you might be sharing the same sheet of tab and playing the same numbers, your notes won't be the same and it will "clash".
Some players who don't often play with others just tune their instrument to accommodate the range of their singing voice (which might mean getting strings that are heavier or lighter....it all depends on what works with your instrument). But as long as they are in a "1-5-8" tuning, with the 2 outer strings being an octave apart and the middle string up a "fifth" (the distance from the first "Twinkle" to the second "Twinkle" in the "...Little Star" song), then they can use the numbers on a sheet of music tabbed out for DAd and it will work just fine. They just need to get back in tune with everyone else if they end up in a group situation. Most folks are tuned DAd in dulcimer jams that I've been in, and in a class situation the instructor will tell everyone what tuning to be in...sometimes it stays the same for the whole class and sometimes it changes depending on what the song is. It's usually on the music, too--so you're not just left in the dark to wonder what everyone's doing!
I put three feet (They're small dowel caps from Hobby Lobby) on the backs of my dulcimers, then I put three fittings on the possum board with sockets in them that match up to the feet on the dulcimer.This allows me a positive hardwood-to-hardwood contact between the instrument and board with no actual contact to the instrument back. Also, with the feet sitting in sockets, the instrument does not slide around on the board.
The downside to this approach is that, since my dulcimers are different shapes and sizes, each has to have its own board. I make my own boards in a backyard workshop, though, so they're cheap.
I have tried a bunch of stuff, from typical teardrops and rounded triangles brought over from my guitar, elongated teardrops from my mandolin, thumbpicks from my banjo, V-picks, and I still have an original first-generation tri-gauge Herdim (when they were white). I've even cut them from credit cards. Ultimately I came back to the classic 355-style (large triangle) celluloid picks from Fender and D'Andrea that almost every dulcimer maker at one time threw in with instrument purchases.
I buy 355s in medium and heavy gauges, usually in bulk. Some of these I cut in half to produce elongated picks that are great for flatpicking, as well as brushing strum styles (a little reminiscent of the sound of quill plectrums); the uncut full picks produce volume. I have recently begun gluing grip tape (usually used for tennis and raquetball raquet handles) to contact points on both sides. With that, I can keep control of the picks with a fairly relaxed grip. I've tried matte delrin picks and nylon picks with molded texturing, but the grip tape works better with less effort on my part.
I play mostly in DAA or another 155 tuning, adjusting pitch now and then to sing something. I like having those notes below the scale on the melody string, and I like the way it chords. If you really enjoy chording, it's also great for minor key songs without having to retune.
Occasional adventures outside include DAd, DAG, DAc, and Aaa. I also enjoy creating a modal minor scale using a capo on the first fret in DAA.
In DAG tuning, the scale starts on the 4th fret; in DAc it starts on the 1st fret. It's like the relationship of DAA and DAd.
If you're looking for a B-flat, there's one in DAc (6th fret); but there's not one in DAG, unless your dulcimer has a 1+ or 8+ fret.
ken,
This is great news for me. As exciting as it was today playing in CGc, I can't wait to try each of the tunings and see how they sound.
One more question, if you don't mind - if I can play DAd in all the (Mixolydian Modal Tunings)
If I am playing with a group, do I need to be tune in DAd or can I be in any of the keys as long as I am playing the same DAd tab?
Thanks so much ken, I think my days just aren't long enough to do this all in short order. I think, as I am playing with the different tunings I should make notes on which songs sound better with which tuning.
Since I need to pratice the songs I have anyway - to be able to do it now with the different tunings will be like a different song each time.
The more I learn, the more it all gets better :-)
You can play DAd tab using ANY of the Mixolydian Modal Tunings:
AEa, BFb, CGc, DAd, EBe, FCf, GDg
But not all from the same set of strings!
Likewise you can play DAA tab using any of the Ionian Modal Tunings:
AEE, BFF, CGG, DAA, EBB, FCC, GDD
The same holds true for other Modal tunings as well as Bagpipe and some others. You use the same tab and fingers by the by changing the tuning you play in a different. Keynote.
My dulciborn I had tuned DAd. I retuned it to CGc after I tead I can play DAd tab. The cords have different names but the tab is the same. I played all afternoon, so many of the songs I had been playing in DAd I could now play in CGc and many sounded really nice.
Members that are tuned in CGc, have you played the DAd tabs with the CGc tunning? Anyone in DAd, if you haven't tried CGc yet, do. You wont be changing your fingering but playing everything the same except one key lower - From D to C and A to G
I feel like I made a discovery today, I went back and read the post in this discussion and didn't see anyone had mention CGc can be played with DAd tab. I hope I'm not wrong because it sounded gran.
I've been working on a tune Parting Glass and found I like the minor tuning. A time ago I tuned to DAc and today I found a song in Dminor tuned to DAg. Both tunes show a Bb, so now I'm curious about the difference. I retuning to the DAg, I really like how that sounds compared to DAc.
Thought I'd post to Theroy group, but I didn't see a good place for this question. If it needs to be ther that is find by me.
Thanks,
Nancy G.
Archie -- better to use a calculator, like the one at http://www.strothers.com/string_choice.htm so you KNOW what string you need rather than what someone simply tells you you need. Sometimes good intentions don't work out too well.
Thanks so much John, Sheryl and Lexie. John - I think it's more being able to actually play the guitar, and get a key that works for my voice. The mansion, ROFL, I'll have to put a sign at the end of the driveway. ...just don't trip over the chainsaw coming in the door!
You can also try a nearby Guitar Center store. They sell strings separately by gauge at the parts counter.
If you don't need the brass "ball" on the end of some strings, you can carefully remove it by squeezing it sideways with large pliers. It will fracture and collapse into 2 or 3 pieces which can then be removed, leaving a plain loop at the end.
Archie, if you are just looking for strings, you don't need a dulcimer store. Dulcimer strings are no different than guitar or mandolin or banjo strings. Steel is steel. All you need to know is the gauge of the strings you want and whether you need ball or loop ends. Then you can buy strings from any music store.
And the 26" is probably the vibrating string length, meaning the distance from the nut to the bridge, not the total length of the instrument, so your instrument and the other one are probably about the same size.
Great sounding guitar good tunes and loved your singing along. Very much enjoyed hearing you play.
(Almost everyone today lists tunings from Bass to Melody -- DAA, DAd, GDD, GDg; not the other way around. However, there are still a few older books which list from Melody to Bass, )
Ah, thanks ken. that's it, DDDG should be listed as GDD.
Almost everyone today lists tunings from Bass to Melody -- DAA, DAd, GDD, GDg; not the other way around. However, there are still a few older books which list from Melody to Bass, as well as a few older players who still use that system.
Almost no one lists the tuning of all four strings when they have a doubled-string dulcimer -- unless the couplet is tuned to two different notes. A four string dulcimer with a doubled bass string will often be listed as DdAd for example, but hardly anyone lists DAdd for a doubled melody-string.
Four equidistant string instruments always list all four strings -- dddd for example -- to let you know it is four-equidistant.
I have my student dulcimer tune to DDDG, G on the base. But my red stain one is tuned to DAA, D on the base.
How do we tell which way to read the tuning so we know we have the right one on the right strings? Seems some we read left to right but some we read right to left.
