Forum Activity for @robert-schuler

Marg, it would help to know the scale length... Robert

Thank you, John, that was beautiful.  It's fascinating how a tune can change. 

You've given us the perfect solution to our dilemna: 

Q: Which version to play? 

A: All of them! 

ken

    it's the red stain dulcimer, I am still playing around with. It has an old time sound to it, which I like but something just isn't right yet with the overall sound. I have put 2 strings back on for a class i am starting today but think it really sounds better with just one on the melody. Since I will be DAA mostlyI was wondering if the middle string should be the same as the melody, that's why I was asking how much of a difference the strings sizes could make. If you can remember from many many years ago, do you recall what size strings you had on yours to make it sing how you wanted?

dan

(many variables that determine the tone of every dulcimer)

Wout

(the different soundbox or wood -  one has to experiment - I mostly play in DAA,)

    I like the 12 string size on melody for my 2 other dulcimers but this last one, an older 1970's dulcimer I'm haven't gotten it to sound pleasig as of yet. I have it tune to DAA and had 1 melody string on it to start but I am starting a DAA class today so put 2 - 12's on. I do feel I liked just the way just 1 string sounded better - maybe because it was thiner or just 1? Since I maybe will play mostly DAA on this dulcimer should I also have the middle string the same size as the melody? Maybe that is where I am running into trouble with the tone.

   Yes, experiment is needed on this dulcimer to find it's voice and that was the thought of the post to see how much of a difference the strings can make.    thanks

String gauge and tone quality?  As mentioned there is no overall "right" string gauge.  Just gauges for particular tuning ranges. 

What do you mean by "tone quality"?  How do you think string gauge would effect whatever that is?

I believe it would take extremely accurate instrumentation to be able tell if there was any difference in "tone quality" (whatever that means) between a .010 and a .012 gauge string on the melody course (either of which would be usable)  in Ddd tuning, for example.  Even if you had perfect pitch, I don't think you could hear the difference between a .010 and a .012 string tuned to the same note on the same instrument (double melody strings, one .010, the other .012, both tuned to the same note)

Quick demo of 4 different version of this song.

Tuning is A'AA

1st is the Tommy Jarrell/Bruce Molsky - As Time Draws Near.

 As you know a lot of songs are built on the same or closely related melodies. Little Sparrow is very close to ERB. The tab to LS might be easier to find. LS was one of the first songs I learned and when I heard ERB it instantly came out of the dulcimer. I play it Daa... Familiarise one song makes learning similar songs easy... Robert...

I did a quick demo a while back, but can't find the post using the search. Probably in amongst the coments somewhere.

Here it is again. The fret order looks a bit scarey, so if you can try and learn it by ear from the sound clip you may find it easier.

The right string is a combination between length, size and tension. The three strings on the dulcimer when bought in one package are 'matching'. Surely there are packages for sale which offer a different combination for your dulcimer, which have a different volume, resonance and playability for that particular instrument. So one has to experiment. Take one brand of strings which offers different matches. Buy a package of each and renew the strings every week (!) Try the same songs on each set, hopefully remembering how the other ones are sounding. Make notes about which string 'speaks' better than the others (sounds louder or is easier to play). Use them also in different tunings when playing in a other mode. It is possible one string fits better in another set, due to the different soundbox or wood. I mostly play in DAA, in which the middle string is too loud on my instrument. Replacing it by a thinner one makes the balance for me (less tension). I play a Blue Lion and I suspect it's luthier emphased the volume of the 2nd string to balance the double melody, which I play single. This volume is created by the instrument itself and the Blue Lion luthier, I think, has the nowledge and the capability to construct it this way. I can't tell for sure, because I have only one Bleu Lion

Check out this discussion at Everything Dulcimer . You will find links to audio versions, video versions, and also tablature both for noter/drone play and for chorded play.

Jan is sorta kinda probably correct, or not.  The West Virginia fiddler Ernie Carpenter wrote the song (in the 1950s, I think) and you would expect it to be under copyright. However, I have not found any evidence that the song is copyrighted, and everyone (not just dulcimer players) seems to both credit Carpenter for its composition and also post music and tablature freely.

Marg, in my opinion there is no "right" string size.  Their are ranges of string sizes "right" for melody, middle and bass strings, but the "right" size is the string or string set that the player feels is most pleasing to his/her ears.  My ranges of size personally are 8 - 12 melody 12 - 16 middle and 20 - 26 bass. There are many variables that determine the tone of every dulcimer., (sound box volumne VSL, intonation, wood type, etc.) 

Someone posted the fret numbers here several weeks ago, either here or one the old site.  I haven't been able to locate the posts yet but I am sure that they are here somewhere.  A search of "Elk River Blues" didn't show any results.  Some one will probably find it or post it tomorrow when everyone has had a chance to see the request.

How much of a difference does the right size strings have on the tone quality of the dulcimer? 

I think this is under copyright still.

Looking for DAA Tab to Elk River Blues. Thank you

Seamus, you could actually use Robin's tab to play my version, just tune to D-G-d instead of D-a-a.  The fret postiions are the same, but because of the tuning the key is different, so the written notes will be different.  If you stick to the fret numbers and rhythm it should work.

I worked up an easy noter drone version of the tune in DAA a couple of years ago to play at the local open mic as a duet with the daughter of some friends - Ella Morgan.  We recorded the tune as we were learning it, to see how it was going.  I think I used my small bodied Ed Thomas repro strung with piano wire and played with noter and thumb strum to try and get as trad a sound as possible for the dulcimer part.

http://k001.kiwi6.com/hotlink/jvdd6bucnv/blackest_crow_-_ella_31_oct_13a.mp3

I've attached a TAB for this version.

The Blackest Crow .pdf - 22KB

Sheryl, you're welcome. Here ia a fake book that I use occasionally, but like. http://www.amazon.com/The-Ultimate-Fake-Book-Instruments/dp/0793529395  I use it occasionally because I don't own it, but my son does. So when I visit him in California I dig it out and play some tunes. If you like fiddle tunes, the Fiddlers' Fake Book is excellent. Many of those songs need to be transposed. Many fiddle tunes are in "A" but quite a few are in "D." Again, I don't own, but my son does. You can get fake books for many genres of music.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Interesting, thanks for explaining, Ken.

A fake book usually contains the words to a song and a simple melody accompaniment. Chords may be inserted above the music staff as names "E," "A," "D," etc. It is up to you to figure out any chordal or harmony accompaniment. In other words, it gives you the bones to the song and it is up to you to put flesh on them. I like fake books in the key of C because they easily can be played in DAA.

Ken

"The dulcmer sings a sweet song."

The graphite is a just a lubricant. It is often sold in powder form to be used in key locks to keep the action nice and smooth. If you look at the setup of the strings over the nut, there is generally quite an angle between the axis of the string that is strummed, and the part of the string that goes from the nut to the tuning machine. That is the point where a bit of lubricant can really make a big difference. Some folks have used silicon grease or even cooking oil...not realy sure which is best....but hey...we're not send a man to the moon here.

 Let me see if I can put something together for you...

( Apply pencil graphite on the nut and bridge. That helps reduce breakage)

Why is this? What does the graphite do to help prevent string breadage?

    I am starting a class in DAA but will continue to go to practice that is tune to DAd, I will be changing my strings back and forth often. If this works it will be a great cofort not to be breaking strings alone the way. Thanks for this Robert but how does it work?

Good ideas. He already knows I'll Follow You...he sings it too. I play Chords, flatpicking and fingerpicking. Thanks for the great suggestions. What is a "fake book"? Thanks

Seamus, here is my version.  I'm tuned D-G-d

https://soundcloud.com/bob-reinsel/blackest-crow

Gerald. Apply pencil graphite on the nut and bridge. That helps reduce breakage. Strings should last until you want to change them. I've got sets that are 10 years old and still doing well... Welcome to the world of tunings. Exciting times await... Robert.

The whippersnappers in the local ukulele club taught me a couple of Death Cab songs that I think would sound wonderful on MD and guitar:  I'll Follow You Into the Dark and Stay Young, Go Dancing. 

In return, I teach them Bob Dylan songs.  You Ain't Going Nowhere.  Wagon Wheel (not entirely Dylan, but hey).  Mr. Tambourine Man. 

What about those '70s folk groups like Steeleye Span and Fairport Convention?  All those versions of Matty Groves and John Barleycorn aren't "modern songs" but they do seem to split the difference between indie rock and 17th century ;-)   Also Paul Simon in his Scarborough Fair and April Come She Will period. 

Are you playing chords, playing melody, or both?  The chords for all these songs are easy to find on the internet.  Sheet music for the melody can be purchased in a fake book (be sure it includes the melody lines and not just chords). Dulcimer tab will be hard to find.  If you need tab, then Matty Groves and john Barleycorn are looking better than ever!

It may just be me, but I tell you I've gone through a number of strings over the years, not from overreaching to another tuning, but simply from going up and down a full step on a string a number of times.  So the string easily reaches either a D or a C, but if I were to go back and forth a number of times, that string is going to pop!  I think the extra strings is a terrific idea, Kevin.

It is comfortable on the lap and there's a big difference in volume. I like the fact that it fits with all my dulcimers. It also has strap buttons if you want to do that.

My son plays folk guitar, I play MD. He is 19, and he has agreed to learn songs we can play together. I like 17th century, and early American tunes, he likes Indie Rock (Jack Johnson, Death Cab for Cutie, Benjamin Gibbard, and the like. I am willing to learn modern pieces so that he will actually play his guitar with me, and we can spend some time together playing. I am looking for suggestions for some modern pieces we can learn. Doesn’t have to be Indie Rock, maybe some 70’s tunes. He likes American Pie, and some other songs from the 70’s. Any suggestions?

I stumbled on this thread by accident. Been playing for a couple of years now and mostly in DAD. Was thrilled some time ago to discover DAC which opened up a whole new world of tunes for me. Been jotting down some of the "allternative" tunings offered here, and have almmost run out of paper ! Can't wait to sit down and try a few. By the sounds of it, I think I'd better stop by the music shop first, and stock up on strings : )

Susie, how comfortable is this type of possum board? Does it sit nicely on one's lap? And, do you notice quite a difference in volume?  Thanks!

Hi Vicki,

I have a possum board that came from McSpadden however it is not painted with a scene as you the one you saw. You may want to contact them to see what they have. http://www.mcspaddendulcimers.com. I have a wooden table in my kitchen that is counter height. I sometimes lay my dulcimer on there and play standing. It sounds good and I get to practice while I am waiting for dinner to get done. Susie's adjustable possum board sounds interesting too.

Vicki -- I have a possum board that I made from two 1/4" thich x 6" wide boards of Balsawood that I've glued together.  VERY lightweight!  It can be cut to any shape with a simple X-acto Blade.  If you can't find what you like, drop me a note.  I have several more of those planks available

I have four dulcimers including a FolkRoots. I bought an adjustable possum board from Jim VanderWoude at Evart that I can use on all of them. And it even folds down to a size for easy travel. I put some felt pads on it and some clear tubing on the knobs, to ensure it doesn't scratch an instrument. I love it's versatility. Plus he makes them in different types of wood. Mine is cherry.

www.dulcimer store.com

 IMG_20150830_145259.jpg - 108KB

Yes, I have already contacted Folkcraft and "no dice". Thanks for sharing Peter's method but I think that would be too heavy on my legs. I'm hoping for something quite lightweight and in the hourglass shape (like the one belonging to the woman that I mentioned initially).  Thanks again............

Vicki, you might contact folkcraft to see if they sell possum boards custom fitted for their dulcimers.

But all you really need is a board.  Peter Tommerup just uses a board originally intended for a bookself, and he puts whatever dulcimer he is playing on it.  Here he is in a duet with his wife Leann: https://youtu.be/DWfnkcGS1Y0?t=4m53s .

2 weeks ago at the "August Dulcimer Daze" in Dover, VT, I briefly met a woman who had a McSpadden Dulcimer and a beautiful possum board (separate/detached) that had an evergreen scene etched or painted on it.  She let me try it with my Folkcraft and it fit perfectly!  However, she couldn't remember where she had purchased it..........she said that she was going to try to find out before the festival ended but I never saw her again. :(    She told me that when she purchased the possum board she had a choice of several scenes. Does this ring a bell with anyone?  I'm not so much interested in the decoration but would like to find a possum board that fits my original made-in-CT Folkcraft dulcimers - one is regular and one is baritone. I don't have the time or know-how to make my own.  Picture perfect weather here today in the Northeast Kingdom of VT - now away from the computer and out to the deck to play some music!  Thanks to anyone who can help with my search.

I met one of my NC neighbors, Gail Webber, at the Carolina Mountain Dulcimer Players workshops in Chapel Hill, NC yesterday. We were in 3 workshops together. I almost bought her McSpadden dulcimer, but one of my fellow Triangle Mountain Dulcimer Association members beat me to it! 

Seamus--It isn't tabbed out, but Robin Clark did a couple of versions of the tune, including a version with a young lady on vocals.  I don't know if they made it over during the FOTMD transfer (I downloaded them some time ago).  I began to learn the song with the aforementioned tabbed version provided by Strumelia on the noter/drone blog and hear Robin's versions and a version by a duo from Michigan called Red Tail Ring easily found on YouTube (because it is quite slow and makes internalized the melody easier) when I am playing.