Forum Activity for @greg-patterson

I remember that one, actually a pretty well done scene, I daresay the greatest kung fu zither battle ever recorded! I wonder if Jean Ritchie could do that?

Thanks Greg,

I guess you know 'Kung Fu Hustle' then

Kung Fu Hustle zither fight

OK, so it's an extremely cheesy old kung fu movie featuring a dulcimer-like instrument-- still it IS rare indeed to find those 2 of my favorite diversions in one clip !

Congrats Cynthia and Robert on this wonderfully sounding dulcimer.

I am so happy Cynthia that you are buying from Robert, he makes a sweet instrument and I know you will be very pleased.

I love my "Lil' ButterNut" Robert made for me, it is a treasured dulcimer.

I will be anxiously waiting for your unboxing video and best yet your sound test video.

Looking forward to getting this Thursday, and plan to do an unboxing video, so people will see what they will get since you are planning to build several of these. I may just buy the lot! Thank you Robert.

Here is a picture of this dulcimer and its almost identical twin. Both were cut from the same poplar log. You can tell by the birth mark over the upper bout sound hole ... The one on the right is just intonated the other is tempered. Gave me a great opportunity to compare the sound with two instruments that are almost acoustically alike in every other way. This was a fun project... Robert

When Robin said the drones had to be able to tune, DDd sounded like the most obvious successful tuning. Can't help it, I like it, it does something for me. Greta used to stop me from playing, would say enough noter, going nuts - she has not stopped me once with the JI cardboard even. Interesting isn't it? No matter how I'm tuned. Animals know.

Here is this dulcimer tuned ddd bagpipe. Although this dulcimer is clearly optimized for 155 tuning it can play well enough in any tuning. Advice I would give to all is if you can afford a second dulcimer, try to order one in just intonation it is well worth it. Ill be building a few for sale this year, and there are a few other guys on this site who can do the same.Thank you for listening... Robert.

Very interesting. And I guess if the ET folks are off all the time, some of the JI folks can be off some of the time, LOL

robert schuler said:

So what if you take your JI dulcimer to the club and everybody is boiling there cabbages in DAd ?. You can tune to DAd. The only note thats really sour is the E at the first and eight fret when played against the drones. Others like f#, d, a are sweeter than a Jersey peach...Here is a clip of sweet & sour liza jane... As I play the scale note the E, and the C is natural since no half fret. One trick I learned from fiddlers is to play fast and nobody will notice if your out of tune ...

What about Chords?. Mostly they sound ok just a bit new age . The A is a bit sour. In the clip Bile them sourkrauts down, I play the A as 1-0-1 then with the C# 1-2-1 followed by D, built up 5 ways followed by G 3-0-0 and 0-0-3. Anybody who plays more than three chords is just a showoff . Im a lifelong dedicated ND man so my chord playing is a bit sloppy. But I think DAd tuning is not out of the question on this instrument... Bob.

Robert, thanks for the examples, they are really interesting. In the Liza Jane scale the B is a little flat to my ear in addition to the E. But I would expect that since the calculator is designed around a scale starting at the 3rd fret rather than the scale starting on the open string.

So what if you take your JI dulcimer to the club and everybody is boiling there cabbages in DAd ?. You can tune to DAd. The only note thats really sour is the E at the first and eight fret when played against the drones. Others like f#, d, a are sweeter than a Jersey peach...Here is a clip of sweet & sour liza jane... As I play the scale note the E, and the C is natural since no half fret. One trick I learned from fiddlers is to play fast and nobody will notice if your out of tune ...

What about Chords?. Mostly they sound ok just a bit new age . The A is a bit sour. In the clip Bile them sourkrauts down, I play the A as 1-0-1 then with the C# 1-2-1 followed by D, built up 5 ways followed by G 3-0-0 and 0-0-3. Anybody who plays more than three chords is just a showoff . Im a lifelong dedicated ND man so my chord playing is a bit sloppy. But I think DAd tuning is not out of the question on this instrument... Bob.

Then it seems as if we may be somewhat in tune with each other on the subject of meantone fretting Robin !

John

Hi Robert,

Thanks for your comments and the demonstrations of your JI dulcimer. I think that the term 'calming' is very apt. For 1-5-5 and 5-1-1 and perhaps 1-5-7 then JI works very well (1-5-5 being 'perfect'). However, for those looking for more flexibility then 1/4 comma meantone or ET are going to be a better option. I would probably recommend that newer players go with ET as it is the most adaptable and easiest to tune to using an electronic tuner. The dissonance of ET is subtle and it would take many years of musical experience to be able to distinguish the difference between the temperaments. For my personal playing I'm pretty used to working with as many different temperaments as I have old dulcimers, as they are all different And most of those old dulcimer builders were not consistent instrument to instrument. But you can hear from the recordings I have posted (up around 100 now I think) that, for noter drone playing, the notes of the scale can to some extent 'drift' yet the instrument remains perfectly playable as long as your tuning matches the instrument in front of you.

And that I think is the major point of all this - it really is worth spending time getting your open strings tuned to the best possible match foryour dulcimer, whatever its fret temperament. The delight of JI is that the open strings can all be blended perfectly for 1-5-5 and then everything up the scale is also perfect - just don't take an electronic tuner anywhere near the dulcimer

Robert again, sounds so fine. I agree about the healing soothing sounds of JI, even on that simple cardboard one I got, and it gives it a more old-timey sound too to me. People start smiling the second they hear that sound.

Robert, I believe you taught me some about dissonance with this demonstration.

Thanks for your efforts, this is how I learn about music. This really sounds great.

Here is a clip in DAa that takes in the entire scale top to below bottom. Note how well melody played the low D string harmonizes with two droning A's, and how D at the 17th fret stays in tune with the drones. One thing I get from playing in just intonation is a calming, soothing, healing feeling. Probably from the lack of dissonance inherit in just intonation... Robert.

Excellent Robert, it is great to hear how sweet this sounds. Thanks!

Thanks for the clips Bob. Sounds great.

Robert so good to hear what these, or this just intonation can play. One more in EAA and you'll have demonstated ionian, dorian aeolian and mixo. What more could anyone want?

Thanks again , here is the Aeolien mode DAc tune in just intonation. I really love the sound on the root note D...BTW there is no 6.5 fret on this type of dulcimer... Robert.

Really great Robert, I like how you put that song together.

robert schuler said:

Thanks Cynthia and Lexie... Here is a tune in the Dorian mode... DAg. Again you can hear the nice way the melody and drones harmonize together... Robert

Your just dorian sounds better than my equal dorian...can it seriously also play DAc and sound OK?

Thanks Cynthia and Lexie... Here is a tune in the Dorian mode... DAg. Again you can hear the nice way the melody and drones harmonize together... Robert

This sure does sound fine Bob, and you are a fine player as well.

That sounds amazing Bob, thanks for the demo love hearing you play.

Here is a sound clip of this dulcimer tuned DAa using one melody string. I used my finger as a noter. I'm not sure the name of the tune, it probably has a dozen names, but is a good demo tune. Forget the tune and just listen to how the drones harmonize nicely with the melody. This is what makes just intonation so special. BTW my cheap recorder is no substitute for hearing in person... Robert

It sure looks to be a beauty Bob. I hope you post a clip so we can hear this one and your butternut.

Excellent Bob, oh sure would like to hear you play it. Happy you guys got this all figured out, gee we are a great group!

Wow, Bob that's a great looking instrument! I am really happy to hear that it worked out well. Thanks for the shout-out on the calculator. I appreciate that. I'd love to hear it, BTW.

Thank you Robin for posting an excellent just intonation tread and thanks to Bob for the calculations. I spent three days working out the math to design a 27" scale JI fingerboard. I finished the dulcimer yesterday based on my AW Jeffrey's pattern after spending 12 hours in the field planting asparagus then spent almost all night to dawn playing this dulcimer.

I expected this instrument to sound different than my equal T models but instead I was totally blown away by the sound. After over 40 years playing countless dulcimers, this was the best I ever heard. The intonation is PREFECT!. I can fret the D at the 17th fret and its in perfect tune with the open D.

I can fret the A at the 14th fret and its in tune with the open A. And here is something you can't do on equal T dulcimers. I can fret the D note on the A string at the 3rd fret and its in perfect tune with the open D and I can fret the D on the 4th fret and its in perfect tune with the open A. On equal T dulcimers your forced to choose tuning between the A or the D you can't have both. My JI model has it both ways and you can difference. Folks after you play a Just intonated dulcimer you will never want to go back to plain old equal T again...Here are a couple pics... Thanks... Robert

I looks like a cool instrument, and it sounds wonderful. But I am confused about the logic of such a complicated fretboard. Why not have chromatic frets under all the strings? You could simply choose not to fret the two bass strings and you could choose to only play diatonic music on the melody string. What is the advantage to the two drone strings being unfretted and the melody string limited to diatonic frets?

You're probably right Val!!

Val Hughes said:

You wouldn't find two many of those yokes around Sligo Town.

You wouldn't find two many of those yokes around Sligo Town.

Hi Babs, Yes you're right there's 3 melody strings tuned d d G and two drones tuned D G. The fretboard layout is like some modern epinette des vosges and a slightly different layout is found on the Hungarian citra. The setup allows you to play melody-drone, melody-harmony-drone and partial chords over drone and of course the melody strings can be played without drones. I use it mainly for baroque music, as in the soundclip. Hope this help. Nick

(BTW Bob the diatonic melody string has the full complement of diatonic frets)

Babs here is the photo. It's an interesting instrument. There is really quite a log going on here. Here is what I observe:

1. 5 strings, 2 dedicated drone strings with no fretboard

2. Chromatic scale notes appear to be fretted only on strings 3 and 4

3. String 5 appears to only have frets for the diatonic scale starting at the 3rd fret. (as best I can tell from the picture)

I am thrilled that you gave your Mom her gift. You are a great Son!

I hope you and your Mom will play for us.

I couldn't wait so she got it already. Yes she likes it!!

Oh, Mark, She will be soooo tickled for two reasons: To have such a beautiful dulcimer in her lap of her very own and to have such a thoughtful son...(that she must have raised right). She will never play it without thinking of you. Happy Mother's Day...to you both!!

Aw how sweet of you. It's a beauty and I think he is brilliant to have a 7 day return policy if it's not what you want. Makes you more willing to take a chance on him. PLEASE give it to her now, by Mother's Day she'll be giving you a nice concert!

Here's how it began... A while back my Mom told me her arthritis was making guitar playing impossible and she was going to give me her old nylon string guitar. She's played most of her life and taught me to play when I was eight years old. She also asked if I could think of another instrument she could accompany herself on when she sang. I loaned her my mountain dulcimer and showed her some basic chords. She took to it right away and had no problem with her hands. She was also happy it was a period instrument and fit right in with her volunteer work at the historical village in Columbus where she does reenactments of various characters in history.

My next mission was to find a dulcimer for her. I happened to run across information on a builder from Georgia named Johnny Pledger. I liked what I read and called Mr. Pledger to talk about his instruments. We had a good conversation about the dulcimer, guitar playing , the build and playability of his instruments and I decided to place an order. If it was not what I expected I could return it within seven days.
It arrived on Monday and it's quite nice. It's northern walnut (from Wisconsin I'm told) and sitka spruce. The wood used is beautiful and finished with tung oil. Once the strings settled in it holds DAd tuning very well and plays easily. I've seen new dulcimers in shops that cost more and didn't play this well. Intonation up and down the fretboard is good as well. My own dulcimer is Koa with a mahogany top and has a darker tone, perhaps more nasal or focused on the mids if that makes sense. It does not sound as open and bright as this walnut and sikta dulcimer. Both are nice voices but they are different. I know there are lots of dulcimer builders on the forum who build fine instruments but I thought I'd give Mr. Pledger a thumbs up and a thank you. Here are a couple photos. I'm trying to keep the lid on this until Mother's Day but I'm not sure I'll be able to do that. I'm really anxious to give it to her.





One little extra I asked for was to install pins or some means of keeping the extra d string off the fretboard when it's not being used.
He installed a pair of small screws at the nut and saddle. It works great. The reverse scroll head is his design. I like it.