Forum Activity for @marg

  I know this must have been asked several times but if I wanted to try and take care of a crack in (maybe spruce top)  soundboard - this is my Bob Lazenby Greenbriar Dulcimer, I just finished fixing the end pins & was going to use it today, at the St Paddy play. 

  What to use wood glue, supper glue - what about on the inside under the crack to reinforce, maybe some wood filler or a little piece of wood glued to the underside, for extra support????   

  The piece is still in tack, try and glue in the seam and tape to hold together, or take off and glue back on?

  Not sure how it crack, it did seem to follow the grain, about an inch. I was getting ready to play and maybe just laid my hand on the dulcimer - just not sure but it's at a point where the cut out section of the sound hole could come off

  Photo is still with taped, did this at the performance today. Looking for some information before I take the tape off. 

thanks in advance

marg

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I'm reminded of how subjective "loudness" is. When I was thinking about slight difference in timing and pitch two things came to mind.The first is a choir: a Google search suggests that a choir of twenty of forty people may only be perceived as twice as loud as one person, but the tonal characteristics are very different.

Another thing that came to mind is that with an extra string, more tension is applied to the instrument, and by doubling the amount of force on the melody end of the bridge, that might increase the amount of force being applied to the soundbox in that spot, making it louder.

Dusty, I am definitely not someone who has an educated guess on the topic, but intuitively I would think if you had two strings of different gauges, overall it would only be as loud as the louder string.

Also, I am not knowledgeable about subjective loudness but Im aware that our ear doesn't perceived the loudness of noise in a linear way, whereas a piece of software might show 1.5x as big of a spike, as best as I understand it, that would not correspond to 1.5x perceived loudness. I personally would not know how to interpret the data in a meaningful way.

Could it be some sympathetic vibration is in play with the doubled strings-- especially since, as Randy indicated, one string is struck a tiny fraction of a second before the other? 

In a related yet unrelated matter, I play a doubled high drone and a single melody string.  (String array: wound bass tuned an octave below doubled high drones then a melody string tuned either a 4th or 5th above the bass.)  If I just un-double that high drone and play the same style (noter)  with 4-equidistant strings, the sound is just not the same.  It is fuller with the doubled high drone.   

Interesting stuff to think about, at least for us dulcimer geeks.

It is not just the timing that is variable, as Mr. Adams suggests, but it is impossible to actually tune two strings to exactly the same pitch, despite our best efforts.  So in practice, we have two strings not plucked at exactly the same time and not tuned to exactly the same pitch.  The sum total of all of that would be an increase in sound, whether you call that volume or "fullness" or whatever.  

This should not be hard to test, Nate.  Turn on some kind of recording device or software and watch the input needles.

What if the two melody strings were not the same gauge?  What if one were .010 and the other .014?  Would the difference in tension result in greater volume?

That's an interesting question and a good point, Randy. I don't know the answer to that but I would  intuitively think that playing two strings slightly out of sync that are the same gauge length and tension would not be any louder than one, but I would imagine that is why the sound is fuller.

Hey Nate. So what if one of the two speakers received a signal a portion of a second slower than the other? Perhaps a better analogy for two melody strings?

Hey folks, I've heard it said that having two speakers of the same power directly next to each other is not perceivably louder than one. They are exciting the same air with the same level of energy, so the second speaker basically does nothing.

I was wondering if a similar thing applies to doubled melody strings. If both strings are at the same tension, channeling vibration into the same place on the bridge, is the second string not actually adding any volume? It can be really hard to tell by listening, since a second string changes the tone. It definitely 'feels' louder, but ears are very easy to trick.

Thanks for any info

Nate

The tiple is a fascinating instrument, albeit less common compared to the mandolin-uke. Both instruments produce delightful sounds that add unique textures to music. It's always a pleasure to explore different stringed instruments and appreciate the richness they bring to music.

@robin-thompson - thank you for posting Kim's lovely description of her times with Larkin Bryant. So nice to read it.  

@jon-w-harris , that's such a cool story of how Russ Green inspired you to start building dulcimers in the mid '90s.

Hi Lilley, as SteveC posted in your other thread on this subject, it seems Gary is no longer building dulcimers.

So many fascinating historical facts in this discussion- I have enjoyed it so much and just want to thank everyone for their cool posts!

@ken-hulme - I believe it's fine when people add to discussions that are from years ago. This thread is only two years old. I always encourage folks here to use the Search function, which by its very nature pulls up older references to subjects that are of interest to them or to others. I never fail to learn new things from reading older threads that have resurfaced, and i enjoy when they are revived. Unless there's a real problem about it, here is no need to fingerwag about how old a discussion is- people always figure this out on their own. But thanks for your concern!  😉

@ken-hulme - I believe it's fine when people add to discussions that are from years ago. Many folks here use the Search function, which will pull up older references to subjects that are of interest to them or to others. I never fail to learn new things from reading older threads that have resurfaced! There is no real need to point out how old a discussion is, people always figure this out on their own. But thanks for your concern.  😉

@shannonmilan -- you do realize that this conversation is over four years old, don't you?

@shannonmilan -- you do realize this conversation is over two years old, don't you.

While I'm not familiar with Mike Clemmer making a specific hourglass instrument like yours, the features you described—wooden pegs, a 5-string configuration, walnut construction, and wheat head engravings on the scroll—suggest it's a finely crafted piece.

Hi all. does anyone know if Gary Gallier still alive? OK just teasing but really I have emailed him a few times and I get no response.  Has he gone into hiding or something.

It sounds like you're describing a finely crafted dulcimer with unique features. The elegant headstock, heart-shaped soundholes, and mahogany neck contribute to its distinctive appearance. Modifications have been made to improve intonation, such as replacing the nut and bridge for conventional spacing. The innovative removable pin at the bottom end adds to its functionality. Overall, it appears to be a quality instrument with some special touches.

Thank you Dan!

I was hoping to find a/some Homer Ledford-made tuners specifically - but very much appreciate the suggestion.

I considered Warren May (used to visit his shop in the early 1990's) and actually thought about contacting you as well!  (I found a post where you mentioned acquiring an older Homer Ledford dulcimer and making a peg - so I knew you understood the subject).

The dulcimer world is a small one!

I may very well end up contacting Mr. May - but thought I'd see if there was someone who perhaps switched their friction pegs for mechanical tuners, etc. and could part with one or more (nice to have a backup).

I did find today however, that the peg dimensions are different on two different Homer Ledford dulcimers I own - looks like the pegs on the more recent one wouldn't fit through the small/opposite side of the pegbox of the older dulcimer...  Hmm...  I didn't investigate too much as I was trying to respect/enjoy my Sunday - but that's what the caliper indicated...

Well, worse comes to worse, I'm comforted by a photo of Homer playing a dulcimer live that is equipped with mechanical tuners - so I suppose I can always go that route if necessary and not feel like I'm doing something he wouldn't approve of.

Thanks again!

I still miss Larkin.  She was a staple in many of larger dulcimer festivals and her classes were warm and helpful.  My copy of her book, which was part of my first dulcimer purchase, usually went with me to festivals.  While at the Memphis festival in 1996 she signed my copy which has made it more valuable to me.

I met Russ at a local event in 1995 or 1996.  I had obtained my first dulcimer from the Flat Creek dulcimer shop in Hardy, Arkansas and was looking for an instrument for my wife.  He did not have a dulcimer with him to meet the need so I made an appointment to meet with him at his shop.  We spent 2 or 3 hours with him selecting a dulcimer and he offered to give me a tour of the shop.  Russ and his wife were gracious hosts.  I left with enough information and inspiration to start building dulcimers.  We looked forward to seeing them at local vending events.  His fretboards were a little narrow for me but Russ had no problem with it and his fingers were about 1.5 times the width of mine.

I'd contact Warren May in Berea. His pegs are replicated from the Homer pegs and I know he has plenty of them on hand.

Warren May

Hello all, new here/first post. 

I've owned a number of instruments/have changed tuners on instruments in the past, so am aware of replacement options, but I have a Homer Ledford dulcimer that is in need of a friction peg, and I (perhaps like others) would like to have an original/Homer Ledford replacement.

In a book on his dulcimer making, Mr. Ledford noted that '...any peg he's made will fit any of his dulcimers...'

So...  I'm wondering if anyone happens to have one (or more) of his friction/tuning pegs available that they would be willing to sell.

If so, I'd appreciate hearing from you.

Best regards -

Thankee kindly, friends!  The new owner is one of our members here.  Hope she loves it!

Nice looking Melton Style Galax John. I am sure the new owner will be well pleased.

That is a truly drool worthy Galax dulcimer!  I love my all-cherry Galax. Cherry sounds good and is a nice choice. The new owner should be tickled pink!  

Three cheers for the new owner! That person is receiving a beautiful instrument.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

It's a beauty, John, and Ohio is a nice place for that Galax.  

This is a new Galax dulcimer I finished yesterday.  It's mostly cherry, with a spruce top and mahogany "inner back".  It's made like Raymond Melton of southwestern Virginia used to make them.  The new owner lives in Ohio.

I'm afraid that I can shed no light on Russ Green. But I recently acquired one of his dulcimers. I agree with your assessment. Really, a high quality build, quite lovely to behold, and sounds even better.

Thanks for sharing that article, Ken.  What a great way to honor Rob's life! 

I use a Myers Pickup, which is a microphone not a pickup. It connects to the instrument in a variety of ways. I use the long carpenter clamp. Specify "long" as the standard will not likely wrap around the instrument. I put the tiny mic inside the f hole, so, yes, it will pick up vibrations from the box, but I could just hover it over the strings. It has it's own little volume control, but doesn't like phantom power.

@marsha-elliott I went in the opposite direction. I started with the bodhrán almost 20 years ago and sat out the slow airs and laments. Two years ago I was given my first dulcimer, and I am almost ready to take it to sessions. It is a good combination, as the dulcimer gets lost in the fast tunes, and people who try playing the bodhrán over the airs and laments are the ones who give it the bad reputation it has. Drum On!

Hi Nate,

You describe a common problem. And different string makers use different core diameters (and some use hexagonal core wire, so it bites into the winding for improved performance. And I too sometimes find that in a tuning such as DDAd I have to compensate the A string at the nut. Curiously, this is not on every instrument.

And I find that choosing string sets that operate at equal/similar tensions minimizes compensation of the saddle, as well as producing brilliance in each string that is in a similar 'brilliance envelope', so that playing a scale across all the strings does not sound different from playing the same scale on a single string.

I have a spreadsheet that computes string tension for sets of strings, given their operating pitch, string diameter and whether plain or wound. It turns out that the the fudge factor "k" needed to compute the tension of wound strings is very similar for most of the strings I've encountered (GHS, DR, etc.), so an average can be used for a given manufacturers' strings.

PM me if you'd like me to email the spreadsheet. Requires MS Excel. At present I can only supply it in Mac 64-bit word (Catalina OS and higher), but soon will have it available in the more widely used 32-bit word version. Either one should work in a PC Windows environment also...

Hey folks I was hoping to get some clarification about how string gauge affects intonation. I have noticed that an unwound middle string needs to be compensated about 1/16th of an inch longer than a wound middle string. If I don't compensate the middle slot differently than the others, it can often be up to 15 cents sharp at the octave, when properly tuned.
I remember hearing in passing a long time ago that wound strings need to be intonated to compensate for their core diameter and not their wound diameter. Can anyone verify this?

And if so, does anyone know what size core corresponds to certain gauges of wound string? For example, what is the core gauge of a .18 and a .24 string that are wound? Maybe I can use the digital calipers at my work and measure some cores.

I have noticed that in order to correctly compensate for my middle strings, the bridge needs to be shaped differently depending on whether the string is wound or not. Is this a common issue? and is there a better solution than just having two separate bridges with the two different compensations?

Thanks for any info, and sorry if the questions aren't asked very clearly,

Nate

You could ask the builder and try the dulcimer out. 

As for price, I would suggest you play the instrument, ask the builder what it costs, and decide for yourself if it is worth it. If you are a beginner, it is important to get some basic matters clear about what makes a good music instrument.

I have a buyer's guide on my website at https://www.bearmeadow.com/models/ordering/html/buying.html

Hope that helps

I'll check out the Wittner violin pegs and consider the measurements you provided. Ensuring proper contact points and alignment across the bridge is key. I wonder what other parts are cross compatible to violins.

Thanks Ken for pointing us to that article about the jam honoring Rob.  @jim-fawcett , i like what you had to say in the article. I also liked the description of Rob as so much more than a musician, but also as a 'community builder'.

I've seen a fairly basic walnut teardrop dulcimer for sale locally, but can't seem to find much about these instruments except what is on the builder's website. Can someone please give me a general opinion about how these compare to other makers and what the range of selling prices might be (either new or used).

I'd appreciate some input. Thanks.

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