Forum Activity for @shopdad

Ha! Don't we all do that at times

Rest assured, if I don't know the answer, I'll make something up!

Thank you all for your replies!

Dusty - Yes, its tuned Dad -  I'll try the chord variations you mention. I realised I can play it on my lap and using my thumb, the A chord is no problem then as well.

Shopdad - glad my question broadened your knowledge!

Theoretically, If I did put a capo on the seventh fret as Skip mentioned, I would just still have 7ish frets - the same as a Seagull Merlin - however the frets with the smaller dots seem to indicate half frets, so I guess that too wouldn't work. 

As my instrument has the 1+ fret then I'm assuming that I have other chord variations to hand but that's something I'll have to work out.

Thanks guys!

Dusty, Good reply. When a person uses the 1-2-4 chord and centers the 2 is certainly an option. I find it makes a bit of a "humming" note. I am sure if a person plays by themselves it wouldn't matter. I would have difficulties going from one instrument to another trying to center the one note. 

Good point on the capo on the 7th fret. 

Sid, I always enjoy questions like yours because I learn from it also. There are several dulcimer players that have the right answers. Dusty is one of them.

Sid, I assume you are tuned DAd, and that 1-2-4 or 4-2-1 A chord is indeed a stretch.  Keep in mind that you don't have to fret the middle string. You can just l play 1-0-4 or 4-0-1 or even 1-0-1 or 4-4-4 or 4-4-6+ for an A chord.

And no, I'm sorry to tell you that you cannot simply put a capo at the first or second fret because of the diatonic fretboard.  It does not work like a guitar or banjo.  When you put a capo on a dulcimer, you change the order of whole and half steps and won't be able to play the same tunes you are used to.

@shopdad, the 1+ fret makes it harder in this case because there is less room to fret the 2nd fret, making the stretch a bit more challenging.  Without that 1+ fret, people cheat a bit with the 1-2-4 A chord and fret that 2nd fret towards the middle rather than right next to the fret wire.

@skip, if you look at the picture posted, you'll see there isn't really much room to capo at 7.  The instrument only goes up to the 10th fret.

 The space between between frets is a mathematical calculation  based on the vibrating string distance two fixed points. The instruments have different VSL's [nut to bridge]. Installing the capo on the 7th fret should work since it retains the D tuning. It will reduce the fret spacing by raising the tuning an octave [D3-A3-D4 to D4-A4-D5].

Hello Sid, If I'm understanding your correctly you are having difficulty reaching the frets that are next to the added frets. Someone correct me if I'm all wet here but adding 1/2 frets anywhere on the board shouldn't change the position of any of the other frets. From the photo it appears the distance between the 3rd and 4th fret is too wide. It should not make a difference how the instrument is tuned. Tuning it to DAA or DAD is all accomplished by string tension, not fret position. I tune mine DAD and CGC. and able to play the same chords just in a lower key. I built two stick dulcimers and use the same fret pattern as the others I built. I find it easier to play my stick like my guitar. A capo would help if it is placed above the 4th fret making it an octave higher. My tear drop is CGC because I cannot sing many songs in DAD, too high for my.

Looking forward to more comments to verify my response on the issue.

 Dulcimer two builds.jpg - 181KB

Hello, I'm after some advice. I have a stick dulcimer that I bought off someone last year. He said he had it custom made for him in the U.S. (I'm in the UK) he loved this thing but couldn't play well anymore due to arthritis. It's a great instrument and I tend to play it more than my normal dulcimer (a Romanian model) as it's sounds nicer and the action is better. The thing that puzzles me is it has an extra 1+ fret (and some others further down?) This makes it difficult to play certain chords, e.g. A, because I have stretch my hand further. 

My question is, if I re-tuned it and put a capo on it could I then play it in D like a normal dulcimer. Not sure if that makes sense? I'm wondering if the different sized fret space would mess up the actual tuning if I used a capo?

I have attached a photo, so you can see what I'm talking about. Inside it say "W.R Powell, Clarksville, AR - Feb - May 07"

Any advice would be appreciated, thanks!

 IMG_20260429_184050.jpg - 102KB

A very soothing, pleasant sound to my ears.  Don't know the words, but it's nice nevertheless!

I suggest it is misleading to say that the Langspil is a "relative" of the dulcimer. The world has many three-stringed instruments which are plucked or bowed. I'm rather certain that many of them evolved independently.

People independently invent similar objects as solutions to a common problem. Would you say the heavy wooden hammer used to drive pegs for circus tents is a relative of a war club used by indigenous people in Tasmania? There are many conflicting patents for almost any device you can think of.

The Langspil is definitely descended from the Norwegian Langeleik. Iceland was "only a few days sail" from Norway back when both were part of Denmark's viking community.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langspil

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langeleik

There is little evidence of overlap in Viking and Pennsylvania German communities in the 18th Century American colonies, although there were many inventive minds in both.

When you visit Iceland, you learn that in the early years ALL wood came from the sea (or was imported in longships.) As a result, they lived in some comfortable houses made from sod and burned peat.

That's an interesting video. Guitar makers have been using "sinker" wood for many years. This is wood cut from logs that have been submerged in rivers and harbors for years. The wood is dried, sawn into boards, and then dried some more. It is then sawn into thinner pieces for making guitars, ukuleles, mandolins, mountain dulcimers, etc. You can find many species of sinker wood for sale; e.g., cherry, cedar, redwood, mahogany, cypress, etc.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Interesting idea to make an instrument out of driftwood.  For the last several years, luthiers have been using torrefied wood for soundboards. That process removes moisture to create wood that resists warping and improves the tone by mimicking the aging process. I wonder if using driftwood accomplishes similar goals.  The langspil in that video sounds very nice.  It has a clear, bright tone.  Not much in the bass, but that could be due to the choice of string gauges rather than the resonant qualities of the wood.

Alex, you might like my discussion about the langspil in the "Dulcimer Ancestors" Group .

And here is the discussion in that group:
https://fotmd.com/strumelia/group_discuss/2169/icelandic-langspil
I have a beautiful custom langspil.

--> Note that you have to 'join' a Group in order to see all the replies to a discussion within the group. (joining and un-joining a group is easily done with a click)

This is really interesting:

PRICE LOWERED--now asking $350 plus shipping. Thanks.

Makes sense.  Thanks for sharing your process.

Point well taken!  On the other hand, an oldtimer might easily have also said "Why would i buy or order fancy 'fret wire' when i can just use these perfectly fine and useful fence staples I've already got right here?" 
My husband is very practical and handy, and i can envision him saying something just like that.  
More rambles- oldtime builders probably didn't think they were doing anything 'out of necessity', they were just clever in using (or making) what worked well and produced the desired result... something people did plenty of in daily life without thinking about it much.
These days, we are drowning in specialized tools and gizmos for doing literally everything... frothing milk for our coffee, car seats that warm our butts, weird red light masks to improve our complexion, and yeah clipping on electronic tuners instead of simply going "bim bim BOM".    I like to think about these funny things.

I often suspect that the masters of old might be a little surprised to know that we buy special drill bits and pencil sharpeners to make a nicer facsimile of what they had to settle for out of necessity. I wonder if I showed Uncle Ed a piece of nickel fret wire, then told him that lots of us enjoy using staple style frets even though we have easy and cheap access to fretwire, if he'd be confused.

At the same time no matter how many modern tools and conveniences we have, I'm still drawn to simpler methods, because I love that the dulcimer is so versatile and adaptable to whatever level of skill and materials the builder may choose.

I suspect Strativari, if given modern tools would use cymatics, microscopes, carbon fiber, low gear ratio tuners, CNC, lasers, and everything else the modern world can afford him to make instruments more precise to his goals

Anne, the time zone is an issue for me as well, though not so seriously as it is for you.  The NGFDA folks are 3 hours ahead of me, so I'll be doing the first workshop at 7:30 AM.  That OK for farmers, but musicians are not usually morning people.

Yeah, I miss working with Aaron on a regular basis as well.  And that's a great picture of you, Anne!  Love it!

I measured the 3-fret distances on my old Folkcraft dulcimer and then made the triangular Fret Rocker shown from a piece of scrap aluminum I had on hand. 

I tested it against the Folkcraft and found that two frets were high, but not enough out that I could hear any problems.

If I was making another in that size I would increase the short side to 6 cm.

The size of a fret rocker must be appropriate to the VSL and scale. I may someday make another rocker for my 24 inch VSL instruments. Sides 10 cm, 6.5 cm and 5 cm, maybe.

There's nothing wrong with a 4-sided tool, but it is a bit harder to lay out than a triangle.

The aluminum was a thickish sheet from an old award plaque, not a bit of house siding. I roughed it out on my electric coping saw and belt sander. I did make sure to refine the straight edges by putting fine sandpaper on a cast iron plate and sliding the edge back and forth along it.

 Triangular Fret Rocker.jpg - 32KB

  I've been rehabbing and re homing instruments for years to kids and families...only in these last few years doing it as a way to lose money faster by opening an ETSY shop and going to dulcimer/folk festivals....

 Most of what I aquire come from resale shops, garage sales, or the broken relics from the closets of dead hippies... 

I've yet to find a dulcimer that doesn't have a sweet voice. Some sweeter than others, yes. I wonder if Stradivari would have used cardboard, birch plywood and titebond if he had them available, instead of scraping chunks of maple down to 3mm with his hands.... Then using machine tuners instead of sharpened sticks.

I really wish these old instruments could talk, I'd love to hear their tales. To see what the builder was thinking (or why?) 

My thought is that, it would be nice to save the original pegs in case they ever want to reinstall them in the future, but most people probably wouldn't have any desire to do that.
I'm not a big fan of wooden pegs, but I can't deny that they look a lot better. Maybe if you used those giant cello type pegs, it would be easier on the wrists and still look nice.
I say just switch to machine tuners unless maybe it's a really pretty one.

If you are selling them as musical instruments, the first concern should be how do they sound. If the sound isn't better than a cardboard one, they're not worth the cost of new pegs. If they don't sound better than an Applecreek 100 or a 1960s Korean one, they're not worth $100, and your labor cost probably isn't a good investment.

Prospective buyers must be given an opportunity to sit down and play them to hear their voice. Saying "I don't like the tuners" is an easy way to just brush off the vendor.

I have cardboard and Applecreek instruments for beginning classes, so I'm not knocking them.

And there's nothing wrong with wallhangers as decoration, just treat them as such on your display.

Good cartoon, John.  lolol
I certainly don't know your situation or how you get these dulcimers that you are trying to then sell in your 'booth', but in general-  I've always been of the opinion that if you prefer a dulcimer with machine pegs for some reason (in this case easier to resell?), then it's easier and cheaper to just get a machine pegged one to begin rather than to convert an older dulcimer with wooden pegs. I'm sure I'm missing some aspect here though.

I do like to see old dulcimers with wooden pegs left as they are (if they are playable)... especially since there are plenty of newer machine peg dulcimers all over the place for those who prefer them. In my view one day someone will seek out and fall in love with the old dulcimer in its original condition and they will know how to work with and enjoy those lovingly made wooden pegs. That's just my personal view, free to ignore!   :)

Thanks for the info. Dusty. I'll check it out. What generally interferes is Time Zone and US vs AUS dollar.. I still drag out stuff printed out from Aaron's Patreon site .. I wish he was still doing dulcimer stuff, but, I guess nursing and a baby stretch one far enough.. 

Cheers,

Anne 

 instrument Makers pavilion 2 2026 .jpeg - 74KB

Better now I hope...

Oops

Truly do appreciate your comments....I agree those mechanical pegs are nice...but at over a hundred bucks a pop...

Well that's not gonna happen. 

Thank you one and all.

If the dulcimers are "revival" instruments, mainly post 1950, I don't see any problem in modifying it. I would look to be able to undo the modification if necessary. I have a very early Folkcraft dulcimer (1962) but don't value as much my 1931 James Edward Thomas dulcimer. I think instruments made by individuals should be valued more than instruments built in group shop. Having said all that, you run a business. Do what you think is necessary to move your inventory. You are not keeping them as an investment. And anyone who thinks of owning a mountain dulcimer as an investment probably is kidding themselves.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

I  understand the hesitation to  "cut up" a wonderful historical instrument. It does seem a shame. And like John says, the violin looking mechanical pegs look fairly authentic and are easier for old hands to tune. I have had to go to those due to some severe degenerative arthritis in my thumbs.

I guess it comes down to how valuable the instrument may be one day to donate to a museum for its place in history or whether to make it "playable" for the present and sacrifice some of its historicity.

John (good name), you have many options from which to choose. 

The most popular option with my customers is to replace the wooden tuners with either "Perfection pegs" by Knilling or Pegheds, which are a similar product.  Both of these mimic ebony violin pegs, but have secret mechanical guts in them which allow for very smooth and very accurate tuning.  They can seem expensive at first, but I hear that they save a LOT of tuning headaches for regular players.  Those with arthritis and other hand issues LOVE them!  And they look like wood pegs.

Machine tuners work well, but I think they are a "visual jar" to the smooth historic lines of a fine dulcimer.

Need to pick some brains, get some opinions...

 Seems I get quite a few older, 70's 80's era instruments that are quite nicely put together, except for the fact that they have wood pegs for tuners. I appreciate the craftsmanship, and history,  but if no one will buy them, they are relegated to be discounted wall hangers.  Most players that visit my booth at shows distain pegs, in part due to older hands....

  Sawing off the pegs (as plugs for the holes) and installing machine tuners seems the way to go. 

  But I don't want to "cut up" history either.....

What say you all???

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Buying 200 proof food grade ethanol in California is quick and easy from CulinarySolvent.com .  Use the links below to browse, no permit required to ship to California residents or businesses via FedEx Ground or UPS Ground .

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The vendor is a distillery in Maine. Probably expensive shipping for a pint of vodka.

My favorite is French polish and it is best done with pure grain alcohol. The denatured has garbage added to discourage human consumption and isn't that good for fine finishes. It can be had on Amazon...you did say best and not the cheapest.

Ethanol

I agree completely with Ken. When I build a modern dulcimer, I tend to use spray semi-gloss clear lacquer such as Deft. It's fast-drying, smooth-coating, and looks fine to me once it's knocked down with steel wool, waxed and buffed.

For historical reproductions, which I'm known for now, I try to replicate the finish that was used by the original builder.  This would include (amber) shellac, flat black milk paint, oil or whatever else I can determine that they used back then.

Great question!

When I first started making dulcimers I used violin varnish as that was what my teacher used since he was a violin maker. I think I made three or four dulcimers with this finish and started looking for something easier and less labor intensive. I tried both brush on and wipe on polyurethane finishes, but did not like the look of them. For most of the rest of time building dulcimers I used a spray on lacquer finish. Once I got in to making reproductions I started using oil and shellac finishes. I've also used milk paint. Now, to answer your question, I don't think any of the are the best finish. It just depends on what you are trying to achieve. I think for the end user a lacquer finish is the easiest to care for finish. It cleans and polishes well and looks good plus it can be satin, semi-gloss, or gloss so you can go from understated to flashy.

You can't buy denatured alcohol (labeled as such) here in Pennsylvania either, but you can buy denatured alcohol as fuel for alcohol stoves.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Hello everybody, just Jon Lilley here again.  With another dumb question this question is to those who are Luthier out there builders. What is your personal opinion? What do you think is the best finish for instruments? varnish, lacquer,  or French polishing. And why? 

Don't let the fact that here in California. Our wonderful politicians have decided to make French polishing indirectly illegal.  We no longer can get denatured alcohol here it's illegal

Thanks again for your opinions and feedback 

A "fret rocker" can be any straight edge which spans 3 frets, but not 4. The "special tools" sold for the purpose are metal plates with 4 sides of different lengths, but you can use 4 or more separate objects as well.

If you explore the guitar makers' websites you will find suggestions that a credit card, small machinist's square or "ruler", etc. are suitable for different places along the fretboard. They don't have to be metal.

You can refine a straight edge by putting fine sandpaper on a mirror and sliding the edge back and forth along it.

Stewmac sells a tool called a fret rocker.  The idea is that you slid this tool along the frets.  If the tool sits flat all the fret are at the same height and life is good.  If the tool rocks a bit, you have found a fret that is higher than the other frets.  This tool works well on the higher frets, but not as well when you get below the five fret.  Has anyone found a tool that has the same rocking motion below the five fret?  (The three fret doesn't count.)

I talked with Doug Naselroad the other day and he hopes to be able to have the Homecoming in November 0f 2026. I think the dates he mentioned to me are Nov. 5, 6, and 7. It still depends upon receiving some funding to make this possible. If it happens I plan to be in Hindman for it.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."