Forum Activity for @robert-schuler

I took 12 dulcimers that I built exactly alike. Only difference was the mixture of woods. Each one had its own distinct tone. As it should be. But all sounded good. Every piece of wood even from the same stock will have different densities and different vibration characteristics. larger or deeper body's don't necessarily sound better or louder. Nice thing about guitars is that you can go to any music store and compare, unfortunately that doesn't work for dulcimers. Buy from a reputable builder and stay away from the very low priced imports... Robert.

As Dusty said, you can't really compare recordings of Brands of instruments on the internet -- too many variables.  The only reasonable comparison you can make is to listen live (by phone or in person) to two specific instruments being played.  Even then, as James said -- there can be a huge number of variables that cause individual instrument to have a specific sound. 

The other thing is that tone is very subjective.  Even in the same wood species, it can very.  As well, tuning can be a factor as well.  I have a dulcimer in Bagpipe tuning that is walnut and sycamore top and to me, it sounds bright and cheerful like what you expect from an all cherry.  Just my own 2 cents to add to the discussion.

Two things to keep in mind, @traildad.  First, when you are listening to audio or video on the internet, the quality of the original recording and the quality of the speakers or headphones you are listening on will make a huge difference.  So you can't really compare the audio files from the McSpadden site with Jessica's videos below.  Secondly, from what I can tell, Jessica is tuned down to C, whereas the standard tuning for a dulcimer is D.  Jessica's recordings may sound richer than those on the McSpadden site only because she is in a lower tonal range.

@jessica-comeau is a member here at FOTMD.  In addition to being a wonderfully expressive player, she is also really friendly. You might ask her what she likes about McSpadden dulcimers or how she achieves the sound she does.

I am a newbie looking to get my first dulcimer. I have made a point to listen to some differrent recordings to get a  better understanding of different qualities and tones. Being inexperienced i can't be sure if all the differences i hear are related to the dulcimer or maybe to the tuning etc. I am comparing a audio file posted on this site of a McSpadden for sale with two YouTube videos. I am hoping to get opinions on what to attribute the differences between them too. The dulcimer,  the tuning, the key, the notes played etc. Thanks for the input. 

https://fotmd.com/forums/forum/38171/mcspadden-dulcimer-with-1-and-8-frets

Only 61 more to go!  I just put a new string on my hammered dulcimer.  I only have 61 more to go!

Actually my goal by the end of tomorrow is just to have all the phosphor bronze strings replaced.  I think there are 14 of them.  They seem to have weathered the years worse than the plain steel strings have.

( accent to your dulcimer playing) I think that is the purpose of the design but since I don't play the guitar I set it up hopefully for dulcimer playing. With both fret boards set to D and the strings in the middle set as a drone & divided, I can dragged over the heavy middle strings adding a deep full tone for the dulcimer.

Question:  How easy or difficult is it to reach over and play the fret board that is away from me - hand position or fingerings change? Or is it fine on my lap and only changes if on a stand & I am standing over it?  

Thanks all,

Since you won't be able to play the "guitar" in the middle like a guitar since it has no frets or a dobro since the bridge is curved, I would suggest you just set the six "guitar" strings as low bass notes to add an occasional accent to your dulcimer playing.  If the two dulcimers are going to be tuned to D (DAA and DAd), I would use pretty heavy strings on the guitar to get low notes of D, E, F#, G, A, and B, which would correspond to the tonics of the three main chords in D and their relative minors: D, Em, F#m, G, A, and Bm.

That's just an idea. I really can't imagine what the original intent was of this instrument, though it looks super cool.

OK: With the string gages I had on hand, I restrung the 2 dulcimers.

The one away from me DAA and the first 3 strings in the middle to (a baritone like) tuning but AdA - the first A to a very low A the other two to regular d & A. I had hear Joseph Ruback do a demo of 'fourth string equidistant tuning' with a low A below D and I thought it sounded so full and rich. 

The second dulcimer fret board closest to me DAdd and the 3 other strings in the middle to Bass DAD. The very low D - I'm not sure I like yet but it's a start. 

I tried it out and it sounds so full. I didn't play any songs yet, just played around. It's like equidistant spacing with 3 drones. I will need to wait to try other keys, because I may need different size strings but I wanted to thank you for your thoughts and ideas. 

Always an adventure,

Thanks

I suppose you could use just about any D guitar tuning, or maybe the D pentatonic scale would work [DEF#AB]. There's a lot of room to experiment. Currently I can't see the center section being used with the 2 outer sections without a lot of playing around for awhile, probably finger/flat picking.

For string selection. You could go a couple of sizes larger since this tools recommendations are a bit light.

http://www.strothers.com/string_choice.html

Not sure who the builder was, someone in the Houston area (K. May, maybe)

The furniture stand, the dulcimer sits on has a trap door to allow more sound to amp out besides the cane openings in the front. Attaching 2 photos so you can see the door

In the idea of the middle 6 strings, lets say for now I keep things in the key of D - what could I tune the 6 to or 3 & 3 and what size strings?

thanks

 Door Closed.jpg - 362KB

Without knowing anything about that instrument, I just have to say that it looks like a beautiful creation, like a piece of fine furniture. Whoever the builder was he/she certainly was very gifted.

The curved nut/bridge could be replaced with straight ones if the wide fretboard is flat. Then you could do both a base and baritone or ???. I don't think using those as drones will work too good unless the MD sets are both in the same key. Even then it may be overkill.

The wide fretboard is basically a blank canvas that you could use to create something unique. Maybe a combined MD tuning like DADADA or DADDAA or???.

Spacing between the middle strings is 1/2" each all the way across and sightly bowed. 

I changed the strings on the 2 dulcimers fret boards and tuned different - the middle strings (playing around with them) make a great deep open drone.

Question: lets forget about setting up as guitar strings and think of dulcimer - Bass or Baritone or both - 3 each  -   OR - What could make an open tone to go with the dulcimer parts?  I would need string size and tuning (maybe think about zithers and open strings that go with fretted dulcimer) And again thinking 3 for top fret board & 3 for bottom fret board but could go together, if all are strummed.

Again thoughts and Thanks

 IMG_20200822_111914576.jpg - 256KB

 I guess like many do lately, I have been sewing some 2 or 3 layer cotton masks for myself and my friends. @Terry-Wilson I'm real glad I have a simple sewing machine at home!  Also now we don't shop for as many clothes so doing home repairs on the clothes we have is a good thing.  :)

It looks to me like it is made to support a fretless bass guitar [or dobro?] and two different MD tunings. Bing Futch plays a double MD tuned that way. I would think any 2 tunings would work, although I would use a standard and a bass.

A quad MD!   The 6 string fretboard could, possibly, be set up as 2 more, fretless [think chromatic], MD tunings. It looks like the spacing between the middle strings is a bit wider than the others. 

The 6 guitar strings are different thickness - the lightness is thicker then my dulcimer bass string and the lowest string is very thick - thinking it must be like bass guitar gauge strings.

The two fret boards are tuned differently, they both can be set with 3 or 4 strings. I have only lower the action & changed the strings closest to me so far and I have it set to DAdd. I was thinking setting the other to either DAA or DGdd or maybe 4 equal strings would be an interesting idea. The VSL is very long 29+"

The question I have is setting up the middle 6 guitar strings:     

    Could I maybe set them like a Baritone or Bass dulcimer?

   Or, if keeping with the idea of a guitar harp -  seems Bass guitar string gauges are too low and also harder to pluck while trying to strum the dulcimer frets. If I would go with guitar setting would a much light set of strings and a regular guitar tuning be better?

   Someone who won this dulcimer gave it to me and I am trying to set it up to work for a dulcimer player - no matter why it was designed the way it was, just trying to go from here.

Again thoughts on best way to set up to work along with the dulcimer fret boards

thanks

Marg, I can't tell from the photos. Are all six guitar strings the same gauge (thickness)? I am guess that the tuners for those strings have the tuning knobs below the peg head. It looks to me like there are two sets of three strings down the center. I am puzzled as to why the two dulcimer fret boards face in the same direction. Are both tuned the same? Is one equal string spacing and the other with a double melody string? I am having trouble understanding the purpose of this design.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

I am trying to set up this double fretboard with 6 guitar strings in the middle (it was made with the idea of a guitar harp in mind) - not by me 
  The 6 guitar strings on it now are heavy & not sure what to tune them to - or should I replace with a standard guitar Size strings and tune to a standard guitar tuning and what would that be?
OR:  split the strings half & half, 3  very heaver & low to the other 3 strings lighter & higher

    Any thoughts

 double fretboard.jpg - 525KB

He was quite a luthier among other things. I am sure he will be missed greatly, but his legacy live in in his creations.

And that's not all Leo, 200 hammered dulcimers, one guitar, and various other instruments.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

1,500 dulcimers AND 1,500 autoharps?!? I only really knew of the former. Amazing productivity! 

Think of just how many strings that represents! 

@ken-longfield I offer my deepest sympathy, Ken.  I only know of Mr. Orthey by reputation.  Wishing for comfort for all who  mourn his death.  

I'm very sad to hear this news.  George Orthey was one of the great dulcimer makers.  I have 2 of his dulcimers, and my friend Geoff Black has more.  Orthey dulcimers are very light, small bodied and responsive, and incredibly loud (by dulcimer standards).  For the last few decades of his life he concentrated on his famous autoharps, but his dulcimers will always be treasured.

Sad news. Orthey was well respected luthier in both autoharp and dulcimer circles.

Dr. Orthey sounds like a truly amazing man.  I'm very sorry to hear about the loss of your friend, Ken.

This is sad news.  Dr. George Orthey was also a colonel in the US Army, and a veterinarian, too.  He lived quite a distinguished life.  The dulcimer world has lost another fine craftsman and enthusiast.  May God comfort George's family at this time of grief.

It is with great sadness that I share the news of the death of my friend, Dr. George Orthey. During his lifetime he built over 1,500 dulcimers and 1,500 autoharps. An article about George appeared in Dulcimer Players News, Vol. 13, No. 1, Winter, 1987.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Dusty...I"ve been playing for awhile and have taken Rick Thum's classes 2x. He starts classes with doing exactly what you are doing. Practice will bring your left up to good. The only thing he recommends is exactly what Skip writes about.  It is great to learn and practice that way since it will put you in a position where you will find more strength quicker, and later when you have played a while you can play much louder. Scales and arppeggio's are the ways to practice. Do try to vary where you play both. Songs are more fun, but as with mountain dulcimer, there are multiple ways to play the same song depending on the player. Some teachers have a more rigid way of playing the songs than other teachers. I think that with the practice, your left hand will come faster than you expect. As far as I know, Rick's personal practices still include starting with the scales and arpeggios all over the instrument.

You are certainly right, @john-gribble, for lessons never hurt.  However, sometimes they are limited in their effectiveness. Right now I find what is holding me back on the hammered dulcimer (which I've only been playing about a week!) is technique.  I understand the basic layout of the strings and can find lots of melodies either from books or by ear, but my physical approach to the instrument is poor.  My left hand especially does not have the strength or confidence that my right-hand does.  Were I to pay for a private lesson, I would just ask for exercises and would then wait a month or two for another lesson while I worked on those exercises.  I was hoping to find those exercises on my own. So far I've been playing arpeggios, alternating hands.  And I've been working on scales either one hand at a time or alternating hands.

Every one of you has made a the choice easier by sharing information and experience, and a big thanks to you all! 

Lisa, thank you for your opinion and reason, and your preference.

John, all of your info helps, especially about the sound files and McSpadden exchange policy. I'll look into it.

Ken, that's both encouraging and makes a lot of sense.

Matt, I wish I could go to a showroom. Music stores in Portland Oregon don't readily sell dulcimers, let alone McSpadden. The closest is Dusty Strings in Seattle. It's too far and they only have a few models in their showroom. But that would probably be the 'best' option.

I think what it comes down to for me is that either choice would probably work out. As John said, "it often takes a bit of time to "make friends" with a new instrument, to find its sweet spots and how to get the tone you like out of it." - I think either will be friendly enough. I will consider all of the advice and information, along with a few other people I asked and make the decision. 

You are certainly a warm and friendly community and I can't thank you all enough!

I only know two things about McSpadden wood choices:

1.  A vendor I trust quit stocking the Ginger model in any wood combo except redwood/cherry.  He said when customers played all the Gingers, they always chose redwood/cherry and he couldn't sell the others.  Ginger is a short-scale (23" VSL) model and it seems logical that players would prefer a bright (but not too bright) sound.

2.  At a festival I found a vendor who set out an array of standard 4-string, 27" VSL McSpaddens in different woods.  Playing them side by side, I heard very strong differences in tone but it was the top wood that mattered most. 

Everybody has different taste, different playing techniques, and different ears.  I know people who hear no difference between an all-walnut McS versus all-cherry, whereas to me they are like night and day.  Since you like a warmer sound, and you like the sound of Jessica's dulcimer, I think the redwood/walnut combo would be a good choice for you.  The redwood/cherry won't sound much different (the redwood top is what drives the sound) but it might be a tad brighter.  Personally I prefer redwood/cherry, but my "ring" might be your "tinny."

It's certainly true that a luthier can make any wood combo work, but we're talking about production-model McSpaddens and not a custom build.

Obviously not much interest here, but FWIW, I'm in contact with McSpadden re their 26" vsl, but baritone tuning.

A few lessons probably wouldn't be a bad thing...

Hi. Those are tough choices to make, aren't they. I don't think there would be a huge tone difference between the cherry and walnut. They both tend towards a warmer tone than maple. I suspect the body shape would have a greater effect. I've seen here advice to others to buy the wood you find more attractive to look at. Walnut might be a little more interesting, but cherry darkens nicely with age. 

The two I play most often are both walnut. One is an all-walnut hourglass and the other, a teardrop, has a cedar top. The teardrop is the sweeter, more "mellow" instrument. Neither are McSpadden. The McSpadden website has sound samples of their different models. They also have a liberal return/exchang policy. 

One other thought. It often takes a bit of time to "make friends" with a new instrument, to find its sweet spots and how to get the tone you like out of it.  

What Matt said.  Wood is only one of a hundred factors that goes into making a dulcimer "mellow" and guitar-like, or "high and silvery" the way traditional instruments sound, including how the player plays the instrument.

All you can do is pick walnut or cherry to go with the redwood top.  Since you can't even see what the particular pieces of walnut and cherry *look like* , just look at instruments that have those woods in combination.  

I always recommend that unless you are working directly with a luthier to produce your "ultimate dulcimer", that you play as many as you can and pick the one that sounds best.  Sound is, to most people, more important than wood.  If it isn't, then I'm sorry for them.   A competent luthier can make any combination of woods sound mellow or high-silvery.

One day I visited the Folkcraft showroom and played two all walnut instruments fresh off the workshop floor.  Both were beautiful instruments.  One had a distinctly more bass sound than the other.  Simply choosing a wood for an instrument is not enough.  Each sample of wood, even from the same tree, will produce different sounds.  Yes, McSpadden has great quality control.  Even so, two instruments made from the same species of wood will sound different.

For anyone truly interested in the sound of their instrument, I suggest going to a showroom and playing as many instruments as appeal to you.  Purchase the one that vibrates to the tune of your body.

That topic about 'what wood' is best or perfect etc, has come down to this for me. I am being given a McSpadden as a gift. I haven't played consistently for long, almost 70 and probably too late to develop a passion for collecting dulcimers. Oh yeah... the top will be redwood, no choice there. But I am allowed to choose walnut back and sides or cherry. It seems like such a simple choice but.... Never having a dulcimer I really liked, I 'guess' I like a warmer sound, less 'tinny', maybe like the the sound of Jessica Comeau on her redwood top, walnut McSpadden. Wish I could try a few, but can't. I listened to Lee Cagle's video of several dulcimer examples (including the two I am choosing from) and I'm still in the dark. Heard a few others on YouTube. So, the question trying to keep it simple given many considerations, is, if you have or played redwood top, walnut or cherry McSpadden or those woods, or you just want to offer an opinion, please let me know which you would choose. Thanks.

"Here among the fidlers I first saw a dulcimere played on with sticks knocking of the strings, and is very pretty."

Samuel Pepys, May 23, 1662