Forum Activity for @ken-hulme

Marg;

There's no "clickable" list of Dorian or Aeolian mode tunes that I know of.  You need to hunt the names down through sites like sniff.numachi, Everything Dulcimer, other player's websites, or ask if someone has specific tab (rather than a shotgun request) that they'll share with you,  in the Dulcimer Resources Discussion here.  There is a lot of DAG and DAC tab in various books by a number of dulcimer players, but it's not free.

Glad you've checked out Uncontrite Modal Folker.  If you have any questions, feel free to as.

You asked " If I have the songs in either DAdd or DAA can I change a number up or down for DAC & DAG. Or is DAG like DGD where we can use the same tab as DAA? Or, any of the other modes can be played on either DAdd or DAA tabs?"

The answer in all cases, unfortunately is NO.  There is no "conversion" from DAA tab to DAC or any of the others.  DAG and DAC are not like DGD (that's a very special case).  No other modes can be played from DAd or DAA tab.  Tab is specific to a particular mode. 

I learned "on my own" for the better part of 20 years, with only Jean Ritchie's Dulcimer Book, and later Force/d'Ossche's In Search of the Wild Dulcimer.

Thanks Ken, I appreciate that.

Sorry I forgot you Kevin.  Your traditional instruments are top notch for sure.

If I could be so bold, you can check out my website, it is all I build . Traditional dulcimers,fretted either Equal Temp. , meantone, or just intonation, no extra frets.   kmdulcimers.com

You bet Jan.  What a great hobbie to be able to entertain one's self.  From my original music training (the clarinet) I soon realized that it by itself was rather boring and depended upon a whole band or orchestra to enjoy  (I know there are exceptions, but I'm talking about my enjoyment) So that is why I learned and favored instruments that in essence were a complete group as it were.  Organ first, accordion, piano, and last but certainly not least the wonderful dulcimer.  Loads of fun indeed.  Kevin.

Great account of your journey with the dulcimer, the decisions you've made along the way and the reasons behind them, Kevin!  I can tell that playing the dulcimer brings you a lot of joy and contentment. 

Speaking of different modes and the like:  Just because of my first dulcimer mode and tuning I've backed that up with tablature and the like and then after a few years I then realized exactly which modes I played in.  Up till that point I just thought that folk changed tuning of individual strings to suit a particular song they wanted to play?  At it's heart that may well be true, but I never wanted to flatten the instrument since it would change everything about the string and it's notes as well as overall, the instruments chords and intervals.  At the time I also played the banjo and found that some were doing much the same with bangos.  Even to the extent that they sell and market a tuning peg that allows detuning to a specific note.  Yep you adjust it to pitch and then tighten a set screw.  Detune the string to the lower desired pitch and tighten yet another set screw.  Then during play you can imediately "detune" the string to the desired lower note and back.  Often there were two strings that detuners were utilized on.  No sure that was clever to bounce down and back up to pitch, but more the detuned tuning was in itself a tuning for the banjo and songs were and can be played in that "detuned" state.

So with the dulcimer as well as the banjo, I was having enough fun/difficulty in learning the one setting let alone confuse it with yet another tuning.  Might as well be learning a completely different instrument as to learn a completely different tuning.  The only thing the dulcimer had going for it was that no matter the detuned state (or simply different mode) it was still a diatonic instrument and for one string or more, for the noter drone folks, it was identical in play.  It's just those darn chords and intervals that get buggered up.  So after looking at what I had and was playing, it seemed as though I had two modes to my belt.

The two moded were 158 Mixilydian and 155 Ionian.  Now that I knew what it was I started collecting instruments in both versions so as to allow play in each.  That was before when I was single to newly married and an eternity ago.  Now as I'm getting back into play and dulcimer ownership, I decided upon the 158 or Mixilydian for my Probst baritone (even though it will be strung in the key of G).  The 158 solely referrs to ratios of the strings against themselves and not the instrument's key.  I then found opportunity after speaking with Ron Ewing of picking up a baritone dulcimette of his in his Aorell shape.  (hourglass towards the player and teardrop on the farthest side.  Oversimplification for sure, but basically correct).  I at first asked it to be tuning to G in the Ionian mode or 155 so that I could play those additional songs.  Well nothing requires a song to have one versus the other to be able to play, but some are just easier on one versus the other.  I then realized that time was short and I didn't really have the time nor energy to learn and continue to work on two seperate tunings and instruments to go along with those tunings.

So last night I decided to change my Ewing order and request it also to be in the Mixalydian mode or 158, still tuned in the key of G.  That way each instrument was the exact same as far as fingering and play.  I can concentrate on that mode and tuning as get, well, better at it.  I will learn those songs (Amazing Grace as an example) that are simple and easy on the 155, to be played in an instrument in the 158 mode.  It is possible after all.  Then my skill will increase far faster than splitting it between two different modes.  And the most important of reasons:  I'd often take a baritone dulcimette on trips and play while my wife drove to doctors appointments in San Francisco.  While I played (when they were different modes) I'd always wish I had the other mode.  When at home playing a larger instrument in 158, I'd wish I had the 155?  I kept swapping instruments and never could just grab the one and play and be happy.  Now with both the same, if at home I'll play the Probst large dulcimer and if when going to bed, I want to play a quick couple of tunes I can still grab the Ewing baritone dulcimette and play in the same mode and be happy.  Also on trips the travel instrument will be the same as the home one and visa versa.  I look forward to receiving each of the two instruments I now have on order and remember that when I had over 25 dulcimers that the Probst and Ewing instruments were the last to go since I enjoyed them the most.  Kevin.

Sheryl, Dom has left the Drops and has his own group now.  I saw one of the last performances up here in Morgantown of the Chocolate Drops with Dom.  It was great!  His new group is probably not to the taste of a lot of old time music lovers, but I like it too.  I'd love to add a dulcimer to either group sometime, if they'd have a pitiful player like me.

Wout, just a little American humor, not unlike our Smileys. 

Not being a native speaker: what is playing bones hamster?

Yes, I know, but this drum was also before 1:47 in the mix... It is the loud clicking of the bones with many a roffle which triggers the automatic gain much too much and the drum isn't :D

I find that even if i practice the bones for 30 minutes a day or for an hour every other day...  well there are some days when everything seems to be clicking pretty well (pun intended) and other days when nothing goes right and I stumble through it all badly.  Ugh!  I get much more consistent practice experiences when i practice other instruments.   I suspect this is just because the learning curve is big for me on this, and am hoping to get more consistent practice experiences as I continue.  I've never ever been one of those kids who tapped their pencils on their desks, so percussion is kind of a challenge.  I did manage to get a pretty good foot tapping thing going after 6 months of determined practice...so i know I can get results with lots of practice.  But percussion has never come naturally for me.  It's real work! 

I think the obvious name would be Ham-Bones.    lolol   

Sheryl, love your new avatar!

Good one Tumbleweed. 

Good to know. I just change my bottom string to a 12 since I had it tune to a. The 9 or 10 that was on it did seemed very slack. 

Learning as I go With great help from all

Hey Lois, 

if you find you want to keep one dulcimer tuned to the key of G in order to sing with better, you could put a set of strings on that dulcimer that is just one step heavier ...as in maybe a .011 or a .012 string instead of a .010 for example.  You would do this if the lower G tuning feels a bit slack.  A slightly heavier string will feel a bit tighter tensioned than a thinner string tuned to the same note.

A Big welcome to father and son! 

Jan gave you some great info on noters.

For some additional ideas about what types of noters one can buy or find and how to hold them , etc, you might enjoy a little video I made about notesrs...

It seems besides trying to learn as much as I can about the dulcimer, it looks like I could learn how to post on here better. Sorry, not sure why half my post is colored.

Where thers is many mnay tabs for DAA & DAD, I did find a few last night for other tunings. I will print them out and start a collection and begin to try them out. If anyone can tell me if any of the tunings can use the same tabs as DAA or DAD besides DGD, that would be great. Otherwise, one step at a time - no worries, I am enjoying my journey in all things dulcimer.

Thank you again for all the decussions on here and all your help to me and many other members.

Somebody sells a pick tethered to a ring you wear.  Same concept as the baby's pacifier on a ribbon pinned to their onesy....You might drop it, but it won't go far!

In the Sale Forum, there are very durable tamarind noters for sale.  People use all different kinds of materials for noters...different woods, glass, metal, etc.  In a pinch, a clothespin, fat pencil (like the kindergarteners use) or anything with that sort of shape will work.  Some people just buy a dowel and cut it into 4 or 5 inch sections--whatever's the most comfortable size for their hand.

I just read through this entire discussion and found it interesting to see what everyone is doing.  I really don't think there is any one "right way" to play the dulcimer.  I think it's good to see what's out there, see what you like, experiment a bit, and try to be open-minded as far as what tuning(s) you use and how you choose to play your instrument.  Maybe you like the sound of the drones; maybe you don't.  Maybe you want to play with a quill; maybe you want to fingerpick.  Maybe you want to use tab; maybe you want to play by ear or use standard music notation.  Maybe you want to learn one tuning and stay with that one because that's where you're comfortable; maybe you want to retune between every song.  Maybe what is "boring" to one person brings much joy and excitement to somebody else.  Maybe you're content to keep things simple because that's why you started playing this instrument in the first place--and that should be OK with everyone, too.

To each his own, and all that. I don't think someone should be viewed as a heretic because what seems to be right and good for them is not what others choose to do. 

My first instrument was a piano, so my thinking tends to be more chromatic.  So I tune DAd most of the time, don't usually use drones, and if I want to make a change  because I'm going to be singing with my dulcimer and need an adjustment to accommodate my fairly narrow vocal range, then I just usually play the song in a different key, like G or C or A instead of D--without changing the DAd tuning.  And if I don't NEED to retune to play songs like Pretty Saro, Scarborough Fair, Cluck Old Hen, When Johnny Comes Marching Home, Shady Grove, City of New Orleans, etc., then I DON'T. 

Yes, most of my instruments have both a 1.5 fret and a 6.5 fret.  Personally, I like the freedom of going from song to song without retuning or trading instruments.  Every now and then I put on a capo for Reuben's Train or a few other songs, but those are the few exceptions. 

This is what works for me.  It's what I like and what I choose to do to express my love of music.  Arthritis has made it too painful to play instruments like the guitar where you have to wrap your left hand around the neck.  The piano is too heavy and cumbersome to lug around.  I really LIKE playing the dulcimer--but I want to do it in a way that works best for me.

So, whatever tunings you're using and however you're choosing to play this wonderful instrument, ENJOY it!  Have fun!  Let it be the voice for your soul, your "howl" at the moon, the comforting lullaby for your loved ones.....

Gale, this is one of the most creative uses for an old chest of drawers that I have ever seen!  Love it!

ken,

    I did read your Uncontrite Modal Folker,  twice so far. It's maybe a beginner's guide but many parts are still more advance than my understanding. No worries, I will take it in sections and work on it. I see you posted something alone these lines back in '02 for everythingdulcimer. There is a list of songs there also, but like above it's the name and I can't click on it for the tab. When I tried googling 'City of New Orleans (Arlo Guthrie)' that's when your other post popped up. So how do I get the tabs for the songs? 

    It's a wonderful collection of work you have, great instructions and  suggestions but will take me awhile to understand the in's and out's of the dulcimer. If I have the songs in either DAdd or DAA can I change a number up or down for DAC & DAG. Or is DAG like DGD where we can use the same tab as DAA? Or, any of the other modes can be played on either DAdd or DAA tabs?

    Maybe all this is just more advance than I am. If I had the tab, I could retune and play the song and begin to hear the difference in the different modes. I will be taking a class in the fall but I have only been learning on my own so far. Jam's and practice in groups just play, they don't explain anything. So for now, I am where I am, when I can find some tabs I will try it's tuning. Otherwise I will stay with DAdd & DAA and now some DGD.

Thanks, as always

How about Demitrius  Bones, Or Dem Bones for short.

Ken, I think it was sold.

This discussion was so delightful that I went ahead and bought the JT by Robert Schuler.  Even in the audio over the web I could hear the difference.  Bach owned different harpsichords - tuned to JT and ET - never thought I would be in a position to own a bespoke JT instrument so I'm really excited to be adding 155 tuning to my skill set.  I'll let you know how it goes.

Scott

Well if you like traditional dulcimers (which it seems you do since you don't want a 6+ or other 'extra' frets)  IMHO the steal of the day is the Robert Schuler just intonated dulcimer that Lynn is selling here:

http://fotmd.com/forums/forum/new_posts/14867/robert-schuler-just-intonated-hourglass-dulcimer-for-sale

I forgot to mention that if you still have trouble dropping the pick you might try some "gorilla snot" sold at some music stores. Also, your local bowling alley might have some resin like stuff they use to keep from dropping a bowling ball and comes in a small bottle. You rub it on the fingers you use to hold your pick.  I have used both over the years when I had slippery fingers.

Herdim makes the 3 numbered pick that several dulcimer builders furnish with their dulcimer.  I use a herdim too, but a longer one that they make. Some vendors have this longer version available in different thicknesses, but you might have to order it from an online vendor. I like Herdim, because they are made out of nylon and last for years.  The one I use has been with me for over 6 or 7 years and I carry it in my small change purse all the time, along with a couple of extra picks, just in case.

Marg -- there is dulcimer tab all over the internet. The only tab you can change from Mode to Mode is Mixolydian (DAd) to Ionian (DAA) and back.  Fingerings for chords in each Mode are different and are given in the tab. 

Here are a handful of tunes in Aeolian and Dorian Modes.

DAC Aeolian Mode

• Lord Lovel
• Morning Song
• Wayfaring Stranger
• Black Is The Color Of My True Love's Hair
• Sally In The Garden
• Border Widow's Lament
• Shady Grove
• Nottamun Town (Jean Ritchie)
• The Foggy Dew (Irish)
• Star of County Down
• The Parting Glass
• When Johnny Comes Marching Home -- a really eerie and mournful version

DAG Dorian Mode

• What'll We Do With A Drunken Sailor
• Scarborough Fair
• Clinch Mountain Backstep
• Star of County Down
• Eleanor Rigby - the Beatles
• Oye Como Va
• Shady Grove/Mattie Groves
• Cluck Old Hen
• Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald
• City of New Orleans (Arlo Guthrie)

You may want to read the essay I wrote called Uncontrite Modal Folker , which is a sort of beginner's guide to Modes and Modal tunings.  You can find it here: http://fotmd.com/forums/forum/dulcimer-resourcestabs-books-websites-dvds/15050/the-uncontrite-modal-folker

 Thanks lexie, I do have that site but most of the tabs are in either DAd or DAA. If I could as you say - (change a tab from DAD to Daa just add 3 frets) what would I need to do for any of the other tunings listed in this discussion. 

I have my old John Naylor dulcimer tune to DAdd, this one I take to practice, jams and preformances (as in senior homes and children's schools) since we almost always play in DAd

My old Hondo red stain dulcimer (everyone helped me set up) I have tune to DAA and working on songs with that tunning. So glad to hear I can also use DGD tabs with the DAA ones. I like the sound of this tuning on this dulcimer and will keep it so for now.

A student dulcimer, today I went and tune it to DGD and played a few songs. This is the one I am thinking of trying all the tunings mention in the post on. Can't say I liked the DGD tone but will give it and me sometime but do want to try all the others mention.

My dulciborn, I have tune DAdd. (Again with the help of many members I was able to set this one up with a better action.) The tones of the dulciborn are great, nice highs and good bass lows. Having it DAdd I am always ready to play something since that is the tunings from practice. I play it outside, over the pond sometimes for neighbors but mostly for the ducks, birds and Heaven.

http://www.everythingdulcimer.com/  Marge, have you seen this site, there are many tabs and information.

To change a tab from DAD to Daa just add 3 frets.

There are lots of tab sites out there, I have filled two binders by printing them off.

There is also much information on modes and tunings by Ken hulm, Robin Clark and others on our site, they are all accomplished musicians who can help you better than I, I have very little music experience.

Have Fun with your Dulci Journey! 

Can you play DGD or DAA tabs as same if you chord or only if you play on the melody string. I noticed on the few tabs I have in DAG & DAA the middle or base string tab could be different.

I would like to try the different tunes but where do we find tabs for them all or which ones can we play DAA or DAd tabs with since they are the ones that are mostly out? Reading everyone's above post makes me want to try each and every tuning but stuck without a tab to go with it. Does anyone have a listing of which tunings can go with which tabs? Or how could we change a tab to a different tuning? Like in James post (you can play DGd tab, just use an Ionian mode tab for DAA. Same tab numbers, just will sound in G other then D) 

This would be a big learning adventure for me, so thank you in advance if as you give your favorite tunings you could also give members like me an idea on how to try it ourselves. Sorry, I don't play by ear, I need the tab.

Robert, you are chock-a-block full of creative homemade, money saving ideas. Made any instruments out of reclaimed wood yet? 

Gotta love the bones playing hamster! We should name him. Izzy Bones? Bubba Bones? Hamsta Bones? Bones being his surname, of course.  

 50 pound test nylon fishing line makes a very good high D string. I use this size on my banjos. The high E B G D off a nylon guitar set will work. You will need loop end string posts to tie them onto. I think when all is done, you will be disappointed with the sound. I found nylon to be dull and un impressive on a dulcimer... Robert...

I'm glad you got that private bones lesson from Dom, Lisa!  I'd like to get to play in a duo of Appalachian dulcimer with a bones player someday.  (Hint, hint) And also with fotmd member Abby Spoon Lady who is a master of the spoons.  :)

not sure what "standard dulcimer sizes" would be.  you will have to experiment i suppose if you are determined to try nylon or "gut" strings

For me it was "Muddy "Mississippi" Waters Live" 1979 ,I wore that record out! Now when I do play my harmonica I'll play along with anything- Abba to Zappa !