Also note that many dulcimers are sold in craft shops (not music stores) to and by people who do not play them. Exotic woods, fancy grains, etc. can play an important role in that process.
Lovely playing and singing! Thank you!
Keep in mind being a 'luthier' can be a hobby or a business. If a hobby, the luthier can do what (s)he wants and can afford, In business, money and customer satisfaction is king.
World Wide Play Music On The Porch Day!! Here is my submission
Today is the day!!! Excited. Looks like it will be nice weather here, planning to take out the dulcimer and the acoustic guitar later today and have at it!!!
Capitals and accent marks indicate the octaves. The first letter of a tuning name is usually the bass string, then the Middle Drone, lastly the Melody string(s). CGG/CGc and DAA/DAd are the most common tunings.
C D E F G A B c d e f g a b
The Bass string is usually C or D. The Middle Drone is then G or A. If you are tuning to CGG or DAA, the melody string(s) ae the same as the Middle Drone. If you are tuning CGc or DAd, the Melody string(s) are an octave higher in pitch -- as indicated by the lower case letters c or d. If you refer to the line of letters above, and count 8 letters to the right of C or D, you will find c or d.
The system goes both higher and lower than shown here, with accent marks indicating other octaves.
Here Traildad: http://www.strothers.com/string_choice.html
(Make sure you are calculating in the right octave.)
Not necessarily "one size down". The Strothers string gauge calculator shows that for a 29" VSL tuned DAA/DAd or CGG/CGc, you want .010 for the two Melody strings, a .012 for the Middle Drone, and a .020 wound string.
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Keep in mind being a 'luthier' can be a hobby or a business. If a hobby, the luthier can do what (s)he wants and can afford, In business, money and customer satisfaction is king.
Ken's point is I think: "one size down.. from what?"- because there are all kinds of different gauge sets for dulcimers that people use, and it also depends on the tunings you want to use.
All that said, a .022 for the wound bass and a .014 for the middle string would likely work fine too. But I'd hesitate to put .012 on the melody string and tune it up to high D on a 29" VSL... it would probably be ok, but it'd be pretty tight and therefore not as comfy to play. .010s would be perfect for melody strings on a 29"er. :)
Randy is "da bomb" when it comes to fretless dulcimers. I don' think you can call the sound "sweeter"... just different.
Not necessarily "one size down". The Strothers string gauge calculator shows that for a 29" VSL tuned DAA/DAd or CGG/CGc, you want .010 for the two Melody strings, a .012 for the Middle Drone, and a .020 wound string.
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I'm partial to this tune from Randy :)
It looks totally great! It has the 6.5 extra fret, btw. I think you'll find that comes in handy. Don't put too heavy a set of strings on it, considering it's a 29" VSL (vibrating string length). Maybe .010 for the melody course.
It looks totally great! It has the 6.5 extra fret, btw. I think you'll find that comes in handy. Don't put too heavy a set of strings on it, considering it's a 29" VSL (vibrating string length). Maybe .010 for the melody course.
I'll second Strumelia's post. Randy Adams is a national dulcimer treasure and I'm happy to own an instrument he made which uses toothpicks for frets.
Ken
"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."
People tend to forget that for a good long time McSpadden dulcimers were made from laminated wood. It was used primarily in the back and sides. The reason the David Schnaufer model was discontinued is that the laminated cherry wood that he specified for the back and sides was no longer available. An advantage of laminated wood is that it is more stable than solid wood. A disadvantage is that it can be heavier than the same amount of solid wood depending upon variations in thickness.
I sometimes build a dulcimer with a spruce or cedar top, not for reasons of sound, but because I like the contrast in the woods; a light top and and a dark bottom.
Over the years I've made some very nice sounding instruments for low quality wood and some real clunkers from very nice wood.
Ken
"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."
Nate, check out our member @Randy-Adams. He is well known for building and playing fretless dulcimers . Most of the dulcimers he's made are rectangular boxes, some from cigar boxes.
He has his own unique playing style. Note that some of his videos include playing on fretted dulcimers too... but particularly check out the fretless videos- they're pretty amazing.
Looks like a good place for you to start!
Let me second what Ken said. Building any musical instrument is the product of hundreds of little decisions made by luthier as the instrument is constructed. An experienced builder makes many of these decision almost subconsciously. Many builders also understand that the buyer needs something to justify whatever price they paid, expensive wood = expensive instrument = quality instrument?
1. Yes -- as far as we can hear, the prejudice against plywood is that it is "dirt cheap" and therefore not good. FALSE
2. Spruce/redwood for dulcimer tops, IMHO is not worth the expense. In guitars, yes. But dulcimers do not create sound the same way, and the "good" that spruce does in a guitar is negated in a dulcimer because the top is so small and further, is muted by the fretboad.
3. Body wood choice is just one of close to a hundred factors which affect the sound of a dulcimer and is overshadowed by the other 99 factors.
Again, IMHO, dulcimer buyers have been sold "a bill of goods" about the importance of exotic, expensive, sexy-looking woods in making dulcimers. As you said, extremely common woods like poplar make absolutely beautiful sounding instruments.
You asked "Is it a matter of the best luthiers choosing the woods that make the subtly best differences, thereby choice of wood could imply a level of craftsmanship?"
My answer is NO. Almost no dulcimer builders have done any reliable, repeatable quantitatively measured experiments to prove "beyond a shadow of doubt" that any woods make any subtle or not so subtle differences in dulcimer sound.
They would like you to think that because they use sexy, expensive woods that that implies "a certain high level of craftsmanship". But it does not. A high level of craftsmanship is found only in those dulcimer builders who can make any woods, or even materials like cardboard or Legos sound good.
[donning asbestos suit to weather incipient firestorm]
Hello all! With lockdown finally dialing back I have been offered a gig at an antique mall, a barber shop, and a juice bar. Given that I build my own dulcimers I have been faced with the decision of how to amplify my sound so that it can span these venues.
It would be ideal to be able to street perform and make a living off dulcimer in the future, so I'd like to build one that has a beautiful tone that translates well when amplified with a speaker.
For starters a pickup seems to not be affected very much by the tone of the dulcimer itself, as electric dulcimers have much less dynamic tonality than acoustic dulcimers I have heard.
I have been told that the only difference among magnetic pickup dulcimers comes from the pickup chosen (I would appreciate input on which pickups are good for dulcimers) and how much the 'soundboard that the pickup is anchored to' is vibrating matters very little.
I have been told that piezos limit the fidelity of the audio and will leave the instrument sounding duller than if it were an acoustic performance
I have noticed that the vast majority of stage performances with a dulcimer rely on electric pickups to convey the sound, whereas coffee shop performances with a physical microphone pointed at the dulcimer seem to provide much more expression of the instrument itself.
How does it all fit together? For gigging at small venues what is ideal?
In guitar communities, cigar box guitar forums I participate in, as well as dulcimer forums there seems to be a lot of status attached to some types of wood, for example koa or basswood, in California it's redwood, or in Arkansas, pignut hickory.
I started off using craftboard for my dulcimers when i was first beginning to learn. Due to the reliable access I switched to red oak, and noticed right away the sound was consistently much brighter and twangier. Eventually I built the one in my profile picture which has a soundboard made from softwood teaboxes coated in poly for some extra durability. I got a couple of huge pieces of 1/8th inch plywood which i have built several dulcimers out of. They all sounded great.
This begs the question, how much does any of it really matter? Since joining a local dulcimer group several people have asked me after hearing my instrument what type of wood it is, only to be totally shocked when I say plywood with veneer. It seems that they have an expectation that plywood should not be able to sound good, but where does this idea come from? Is it just the knowledge that plywood is dirtcheap that makes them assume it should "sound cheap?"
Is it a matter of the best luthiers choosing the woods that make the subtly best differences, thereby choice of wood could imply a level of craftsmanship?
Maybe my ears are too unrefined to be able to tell the difference but others can?
I'm sure there will be opinions all over the place, given that some woods seem to be EXTREMELY common, whereas National champ Grant Olson played for so long (maybe still does) on a styrofoam dulcimer, so I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts.
Cheers!
-Nate
Is it accurate to say that you can make generalizations about an instruments tone based on materials, depth, and bridge placement?
For example it has always been my experience that a harder wood without any large knots will sound brighter than a softer wood of the same thickness which also does not have any large knots.
Also, dulcimers with taller sides seem to give more bass response than shallower ones.
Finally a bridge placed near the very edge of the soundbox to me sounds twangier than a bridge that is more centered over the box.
These generalizations have seemed consistently accurate to me. What do you guys think?
I have noticed that every dulcimer has a different tone and you never really know for sure what it will sound like til you hear it, but maybe at the very least one can identify characteristics that will ensure their dulcimer's tone is not too terribly far from what one desires.
I'd love input from others as I am still very much a beginner!
-Nate
A topic I have heard several times among both players and builders is the pros and cons of various temperaments, with no consensus ever being reached. It does occur to me that a fretless instrument such as a violin avoids this problem entirely since the fretting hand determines how flat or sharp the note is by it's placement. Are there dulcimers made fretless, in order to achieve any microtonality the player might desire? Obviously it would be MUCH harder to play and also take a lot of knowledge to use correctly, but if it gives a sweeter sound, why not?
Stay well!
I like very low and narrow mandolin frets because i think they make less noise when i slide across them. My dulcimer is chromatic so the 'thumping' of the frets is something I try to mitigate. I have heard it said that pressing too hard on strings makes them bend and stretch inconsistently and can affect tone, so I would imagine taller frets do this even more? Definitely gonna try them on my next dulcimer to see how they feel.
I borrowed a dulcimer from my sister. I think it’s a kit dulcimer with a 29” VSL. It’s missing strings so I don’t know how it plays yet. It will give me something to work on my music theory with until I buy a dulcimer. .
I know a few luthiers who have started either using jumbo frets or offering them as an upgrade. I know Aaron O'Rourke loves them. According to him, the bigger frets enable you to get notes without pushing your fingers all the way down to the wood so you can play faster. To be honest, I don't think the size of the fret is what slows me down!
My guess is that @ken-hulme didn't like them because he plays with a noter, and the jumbo frets probably just get in the way as you slide the noter up and down the fretboard.
I used Jumbo frets a few times, didn't ca re fo r them
Thanks so much for your helpful input, Dusty!
Don- we're trying to clear up some confusion in your descriptions- otherwise we won't be able to help.
1) you can be "signed in" (logged into the fotmd site, as shown by seeing your name at top right link as Dusty outlined in red.... but unless you have JOINED a Group, you still won't be able to access that particular Group's discussions. Again- see Dusty's red outline showing where to JOIN a GROUP. When you are in a group and something is inaccessible, do you see the button that either says "Join Group" or "Leave Group"? If you see it, what does it say...join or leave?
2) we can't confuse discussion Forums with Group discussions. Anyone online (even non site members) can see the discussions in our site Forums. However, with GROUP discussions, you will not see the whole discussion and will not be able to post in the group unless you have JOINED that group- see Dusty's screenshot.
To clear up what you are referring to- please post here the URL or link of the location that you cannot access. Even if it says no access allowed, please Copy that link address and post here, so I can see where you are when you are having this trouble accessing.
3) additionally, as Dusty asked, I too must ask- when you say you are 'restricted' what does that mean?- are you getting an error message?- if so what does the message say? Or, if an error message is not popping up, what are you seeing?- a "404 Page not found" page? Or, just not seeing the replies to a discussion? What exactly are you seeing, or being told in a message?
4) Have you tried accessing these places on a different device? (a phone, a tablet, a laptop, a desktop) Try a different device to see if it happens from that device too, so we can know if the issue is only happening on one device you're using.
Please try to respond to these particular questions i've laid out above, so I can try to help you.
@don-grundy, what do you mean when you say "forums I follow are restricted?" Forums should be available to anyone logged in. Group discussions are limited to those who have joined the Group.
First, make sure you are logged in. You should see your Username in the upper right-hand corner, as in this screen shot.
If you are definitely logged in, all the Forum Discussions should be open to you, but you will only see the first comment (or maybe the latest comment) of discussions within the Groups. You have to join that individual Group to see the rest of the comments.
If you are sure you are logged in, and you are sure you are talking about Forums rather than Groups, then please explain what you mean by "restricted." What happens when you click to see a Forum discussion?
Curious to know if anyone has "Jumbo" frets on their dulcimers?
I've found this Jan. '93 Mark Blair Dulcimer #637 (missing the nut) and in the process of getting it back in playing shape.
It has HUGE ! frets - . 105w close to Dunlop 6130/6140 - especially compared to my '85 McSpadden with classic "mandolin" style wire 0.80w 0.39h
A label reads "Custom Built for Lindsay Ruth Harris" perhaps this was a custom request. Oddly? this was strung with an old, rusty set of 10-10-20 very light strings!
I took 12 dulcimers that I built exactly alike. Only difference was the mixture of woods. Each one had its own distinct tone. As it should be. But all sounded good. Every piece of wood even from the same stock will have different densities and different vibration characteristics. larger or deeper body's don't necessarily sound better or louder. Nice thing about guitars is that you can go to any music store and compare, unfortunately that doesn't work for dulcimers. Buy from a reputable builder and stay away from the very low priced imports... Robert.
As Dusty said, you can't really compare recordings of Brands of instruments on the internet -- too many variables. The only reasonable comparison you can make is to listen live (by phone or in person) to two specific instruments being played. Even then, as James said -- there can be a huge number of variables that cause individual instrument to have a specific sound.
The other thing is that tone is very subjective. Even in the same wood species, it can very. As well, tuning can be a factor as well. I have a dulcimer in Bagpipe tuning that is walnut and sycamore top and to me, it sounds bright and cheerful like what you expect from an all cherry. Just my own 2 cents to add to the discussion.
