Forum Activity for @don-grundy

I would appreciate any input related to Black Mountain dulcimers by David Johnson

Here is a link to a discussion of this very topic at Everything Dulcimer: 

http://everythingdulcimer.com/discuss/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33782&p=377292&hilit=Herdim#p377292

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

The best stick-on pickup imo is the Schatten Dualie.  I've used a lot of pickups since the 70s to amplify nylon string guitars and this one is better than anything I've ever had.  I actually got it when it first came out to try to get the "Willie Nelson" sound from a little Argentinian classical guitar I have.  I combine mine with a Boss GE-7 equalizer/preamp which I got in a pawn shop for around $25.  Couldn't resist it; mint in the box.  Now I've upgraded my amplifier to a Fender Acoustisonic 150, but I've been using the Boss still.  I have other effects I use as well.  Now I just have to get a good vocal mic to round out the equipment.

Oh yeah, Schatten makes a dulcimer pickup as well now.  I have not tried it as the dualie has satisfied my needs wonderfully.

Gale, for the record, Robin has a lot more experience with this stuff than I do and you should take his advice over mine in a heartbeat.  He plays gigs far more regularly than I and has also created phenomenal recordings.  I trust his recommendations wholeheartedly.

I can only share what I have gone through.  Over the last 5 or 6 years I bought several cheap and one rather expensive ($120) external pickups hoping to be able to amplify one or more dulcimers.  I gave or threw the cheap ones away and never use the more expensive one (which I would gladly sell for a hugely discounted price so long as the buyer does not blame me for the disappointing sound).  I also bought and later gave away a small, cheap amplifier.  I was never able to achieve anything close to acceptable sound quality.  I consider all that wasted money and time.  If you add up the external pickups and cheap amp that I bought, together they would represent almost the total cost of an SM 57 and a small, portable, Roland amp.

If you just want a quick and cheap way to amplify your sound for an upcoming gig, there are indeed options available. But you might want to think more long-term about a permanent way to create a satisfying amplified sound. 

Hi Gale,

I wouldn't look to spend too much on a pick-up system if you just intend to plug your dulcimer into a small amp like the Kala one you have.  Although, as Dusty says, a mic' will give good quality sound, that amp will not take a dynamic mic' like the SM57.

The simple solution I would suggest would be some sort of clip or stick on peizo pick-up.  I played a gig last week and used a cheap Cherub WCP-60V violin pick-up (less then $10 from Amazon).  The pick-up has a long slender clip that will fit into almost any dulcimer sound hole.  You could plug this direct into your Kala amp and, with some experimentation on positioning, should give an OK sound.  You can improve the sound by wrapping an elastic band around the clip to make it pinch together a little firmer.

If you want a better tone (peizo pick-ups can be a little harsh) then you can add a cheap pre-amp.  I use the Behringer V-tone Acoustic ADI 21 for gigs.  It is a great bit of kit for improving the sound of cheap pick-ups and lifting their output to line level.  It is a little technical to explain but basically this box will allow you to plug your dulcimer into any amp or p/a system and control the tone and volume.  When using it I can get one of those cheap Cherub pick-ups to sound very natural through a small acoustic guitar amp or into a p/a system.  They are about $30 from Amazon (remember to get an additional lead to plug the box into your amp).

Overall a mic' will give the very best sound but only if it is plugged into a very good sound system.  When using small guitar amps cheaper solutions are a more pragmatic option.

CC, a dear friend of mine plays a Clemmer and it sounds fantastic up and down the fretboard.  

Mike makes a heckuva dulcimer.  I particularly like the looks of his "fiddle sided" instruments.  I've met him as a couple of festivals, and had the opportunity to play his instruments several times, and I like them.  They're not my "high silvery" sounding traditional favorites, but they have a beautiful tone, intonation and look.  You could not go wrong with one of his creations.  He's easy to work with, as well.

The very best!

DAN

I did a search for 'Clemmer dulcimers' on here & a photo gallery popped up with the different members who posted their Clemmer dulcimers, not sure if they still have them or not but you could contact the members & ask them about theirs

I have hear they are well made & sound nice, like my Sam Carroll they have 5 strings & are fiddle shape.

Good luck with others who have one letting you know what they think.

Dusty has a good point.  I was recently introduced to the condenser microphone, which isn't like the usual hand-held stick mic.  It's a sort of Omni-pickup that you put on a stand in front of you.  Nothing attached to your instrument.  They pick up both the instrument and your singing very well.  I've seen them on Amazon for around $75.

Gale, as Ken demonstrates, there are some very affordable options out there.  My advice if you want to be able to amplify several instruments would be to get a microphone rather than an external pickup.  The industry stand-by is the Sure SM-57.  If you look online you can find deals where you get the mic, a chord, and a mic stand for around $100. I made that purchase a few years ago and then more recently bought the Sure SM-58, which is basically the same mic but for vocals.  And I'm sure there are less expensive mics out there that would also do the job.

I just think that whatever you spend, a good microphone represents a better-sounding and more versatile option than an external pickup.  I have never been satisfied with the few external pickups I've tried.

But you might also pose this question in the Technology/Software/Amplifying Group here at FOTMD.  Some people have a great deal more experience than I with amplifying instruments.

I use simple contact piezo pickups that I get off the Net; cost about $3-$5 each.  The sticky tape does not bother the dulcimer's finish.  Sometimes I replace the tape with 3M double sided tape...

 PiezoPickup.jpg - 5KB

Hi all -

   I am looking for some advice on any moderately-priced external pickups that work well with a mountain dulcimer and would work with the cute Kala amp I bought for my tenor uke this past summer. See attached for photo of amp and cord.  My DH gave me a gift certificate to Elderly Instruments and looking to use that if possible.  I don't have a lot of knowledge of "electrified" dulcimers but trying to learn from this site and others. Thanks in advance for any advice!

 Amp.jpg - 200KB

Here are the last ones I saw!

 back.jpg - 25KB

I will keep a watch out!

I kept photos of the others she had on the page....I will find them and post here!

Nice.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

A dulcimer-carrying Santa is cool.  

Don, have fun!  Playing in different keys takes practice and it's a great skill to acquire.  

If a miracle of some kind takes place-- some unforeseen postive happening-- I may be able to make it. 

Yeah -- sorry to hear you won't make it Robin; I was looking forward to meeting you also...

Sorry to hear that the senior housing fell through. I'll miss you. I took care of my mother and father at different times. Cherish your time with them.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

I'd had hopes of getting to attend. Then the attempts at getting my parents moved into Senior house failed.  So, likely, I'll still be living with my folks in March. 

Hopefully they'll list the sessions soon.  Here are some sessions offered last year:

Old Time Music for Beginners
Key of A
Ballads
Beginning Dulcimer
Singing with the Dulcimer
Counter Melodies
Little Songs
Irish Drinking Tunes
Surviving A Jam Session
Key of G

There were also seminars on dulcimer construction and Sacred Harp/Shape Note Singing

Ken,

I did not see any sessions listed yet. Do you know what kind of sessions may have been offered in the past years?

Thanks

What Dusty said.  Blend in, have fun, join the songs you can play and sit out the songs you can't. 

Since you know your jam partners, it should be easy to ask them what songs they like to play and what keys they play most often :-)  Pick a few songs and practice them before the jam.  If you can only play along on one or two songs the first time you sit in, that's still a good start!

How are the ukuleles tuned?  If they're in GCEA, chances are they're playing most songs in the keys of C and G.  Those are the keys a beginner learns first.  The key of D is only a little harder; beginners won't be happy if you keep calling songs in D but intermediate players should be able to cope.

My solution for playing with ukes is to bring one dulcimer tuned GDG for the key of G and capo at the 3rd fret for the key of C.  If I didn't have a dulcimer that tunes easily to GDG, then I would tune a standard dulcimer down to CGC and capo on the 4th fret for the key of G. 

If the song's not in C or G, I'd sit it out ;-)  Or pick up a uke.  You know those ukes are going to suck you in eventually

The most common keys in folk or old timey or bluegrass music are C, D, G, and A.  You should be prepared to play in those keys in any multi-instrument jam.  And many songs have a specific tuning that they are always played in.  St. Anne's Reel is always in D, Billy in the Lowground is always in C, Red-Haired Boy is always in A, and so forth. I try to practice songs in their common key so that I am always ready to play with others.

How to get into those keys?  I can bring a single dulcimer to a jam.  Tuned DAA or DAd, you can obviously play in D. With a capo at the third fret you're in G and at the fourth fret you're in A. Then you can tune down to CGG or CGc to play in C. 

There are other ways of getting those keys (like tuning DGd for G), and if you have any extra frets playing in other keys gets much easier, but I find the capo is all I need to get the four most common tunings.

But the most important advice I can give is to remember that when you play with others, your job is to blend in, not stand out.  If you don't know the song very well, just play quietly using a minimal number of notes. Little by little you'll learn more of the repertoire.  But you should always listen more than you play. 

And it can't hurt to take the lead on one or two tunes.  Don't be afraid to just say "How about Goin' to Boston in the key of D?" and then start playing?  Others will follow along, and if you show them patience as they learn one of your tunes, they will likely return the favor.

Seriously?  This is why other musicians groan when you bring a dulcimer to a jam.  We expect everyone to change for us.  How nice? Not.  If you plan to play a dulcimer with other instruments, you should change for them, after all, there are more of them than there are of us.  Majority rules in a jam.

Yes, the dulcimer is a wonderful instrument,..., that can change and play nicely with other instruments.  (And when you get REALLY good, you can bring just one instrument, or a fully chromatic dulcimer,..., hmm, fully chromatic CGg with a capo, that could do most everything.)

Just go ahead and play noter/drone whereever you're tuned - most guitar/uke players will quickly find the key and join in. I was surprised to hear someone playing drone style with a guitar player playing with full chords, but by God it worked and I thought it sounded great. The dulcimer is just the coolest instrument. I someone else if playing the dulcimer, just let them start, find the first chord and your off. It's fun and it's easy, don't complicate it lol.

Tune as you always do.  Tell them, with their chromatic instruments, that you play in the key of D (or C if you tune CGG or CGc).  They can play to your tuning easier than you can tune to their playing.  

You won't necessarily be able to play every note of tunes they play.  But if you listen, you'll be able to hear 3-5 note phrases of the tune.  If you can quickly find that phrase on your melody string, just play that phrase over and over, in the same time as the tune, and you will have created a "part" for the tune that will meld with what they are doing...

If you say "I'm tuned DAA".  They will tell you that you are playing in the key of d because that's the first note of your scale.  If you are tuned DAd, they will say that you are playing in the key of g.  That's because dulcimer folks tune the instrument to a keynote and everything revolves around that keynote; where chromatic instrument players tune to some base tuning from which they can play in all sorts of keys.

Bring two one DAd/DAa and one CGc/CGg and a Capo.  (DAd/DAa depends on your playing style.)

Hearts of the Dulcimer Podcast - Episode 31
The Winter Holiday Dulcimer 2017

  http://bit.ly/hotdpodcast

Celebrate the winter season with wintry seasonal music by dulcimer players John and Karen Keane, Christine Shoemaker, Stephen Seifert, Wendy Songe, Jessica Comeau, Holly Tannen, and Heidi Muller and Bob Webb.

Hearts of the Dulcimer Podcast can be found on most podcast apps.
Here's the link to Hearts of the Dulcimer on iTunes:  http://bit.ly/hotdpodcast

Don't use a podcast app or iTunes? You can listen to all the podcast episodes directly on our website:  http://dulcimuse.com/podcast

We also have a resource page for every episode, where you can find photos, videos, and song lists. Here's the resource page for this episode:  http://dulcimuse.com/podcast/resource/031.html