Forum Activity for @ken-longfield

Richard, I find that "traditional" means different things to different people depending upon their knowledge of mountain dulcimer history. Many of the older instruction books used a 1 - 5 - 5 tuning and quite a few used CGG. In the area around Galax, VA a unison tuning was quite common and one could say traditional for that area. As Ralph Lee Smith says, when he asked an older Appalachian man how the dulcimer was tuned, the man replied you tune the thick string to a "good" note and the others in relation to it. I think that meant that the bass was tuned to a key to fit the player's voice and the drone and melody were tuned a fifth above that, but I didn't talk with the man. I think we should be less concerned about trying to emulate a "traditional" style and just play the way we enjoy playing.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song,"

I've been playing Noter & Drone for some 40 years.  I don't know who you've been talking to or where they got their information but what they seem to have been saying is completely at odds with all other knowledge about Modes and tunings that I've ever encountered -- and I read a LOT!!

You can play N&D in ANY, repeat ANY,  tuning and it is a "traditional" way to play.  You can play Fingerdance style in ANY tuning at it is also a "traditional" way to play.  Playing Chord-Melody style is not "traditional" it is a late 20th century (post 1950) invention.

DAA and other 1-5-5 tunings have ALWAYS been called Ionian Modal Tunings (well at least since the 1500s)

DAd and other 1-5-8 tunings have ALWAYS been called Mixolydian Modal Tunings (same disclaimer)

Both Ionian and Mixolydian are MAJOR scales, not minor scales.  However the Mixolydian scale's 7th note (the solfege note  we call "ti") is flattened from what that note would normally be (if that 7th note is supposed to be F# for example, it becomes an F).  This is what happens if you tune to DAd, for example, and play the Mixolydian scale -- which begins at the Open fret -- and have no 6+ fret on your dulcimer.   VERY few melodies which Europo-Americans have created in the last thousand years use a scale where the 7th note of that scale is flatted from its natural note.  A huge number of dulcimer tunes which are tabbed in DAd are not, in fact, Mixolydian/DAd tunes -- they do not have that 'flatted 7th note in them.

Players from the late 1800s through the 1960s often (but not always) tuned "Octave" or what we now call Galax tunings, NOT Ionian or Mixolydian tunings.  Octave tunings are things like Ddd or Ccc, Galax tunings are usually ddd or ccc.

"Traditional dulcimer sound" comes not from the tuning, but from the shallow/narrow bodies of 'traditional' dulcimers which have much less interior volume that a conventional modern dulcimer.  Modern dulcimers with a 27" VSL are roughly 2.25" deep x 7-8" wide x 31" long (minus the head);  a traditional dulcimer with the same VSL is roughly 1.25" deep, 6-7" wide and 28" long.  When tuned to the same tuning,  the lesser volume traditional instrument tends to give a more "high silvery" sound; where the modern dulcimer tends to produce a deeper more "mellow", sound.

At last I can help somebody !  I am in Wales and so is Robin Clark, a member here. Please look at his excellent videos on YouTube. They explain all you need to know and can be found by searching for Birdrock Dulcimers.

I prefer noter drone style of play and have thought for several years that the "most traditional" sound would be produced in 1-5-5 tuning. However in discussing this with a person who has played and built dulcimers for more than 30 years, I have been told that the most "traditional" sound has to come from DAdd tuning.

Also somewhere recently I have read that DAA is really a mixolydian tuning not ionian.  So I feel confused. Can one of the members here with more experience and knowledge help me understand this?

Thanks.

I also made a contribution.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Yeah -- I got the email from them too.  Hopefully things will be dried out when we get there.  I've sent a donation...

For those going to Hindman next month, you might be interest to know that there was severe flooding around the settlement school. Here is a link  Hindman Flooding  with a couple of photos and a link to donate to recovery efforts if you so choose.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Yeah -- I never had an FOTMD Button, but will scribble it on my (mandatory at these sorts of things) Name Tag.

Yes, a group photo!  

Maybe next year I can make it to Hindman.  

I never had a FOTMD button, but I think we will find each other. Let's try to remember to organize and take a group photo at least.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Don't forget to wear your FOTMD buttons if you have them!  

Looking forward to meeting all of the FOTMD family who can attend. Should be great fun.

Those two are our best Appalachian Ambassadors!  Highly respected on both sides of The Pond.  I hope to meet them some day.

Don, Ken steered you right with the link to the Farina book.  I've downloaded it a couple of times to make sure I had a copy.  Joan Baez's folk stuff will be found in a lot of books, I'd think.  You'd have to look for it by song title; some might be on the usual tab sites.  However, Dylan's stuff and Joan's original/modern songs would still be under copyright and might be hard to find.  I know Andy Beyer teaches a workshop on 60s folk songs (which I took) but I now have no idea which songs he covered.  LOL.  Oh, yeah, you might want to check out Ralph Lee Smith's books including the one on Greenwich Village Days (I think that's something like the title) for the folk songs which were common in the 60s folk revival.

I spoke to him a couple of weeks ago. He was very helpful and patient with a newcomer like me. I have also spoken with John Henry. He was great and the two of them have shown me what a friendly forum this is. 

Neal & Sally Hellman have this:  Richard Farina Dulcimer Book :  http://richardandmimi.com/dulcimerbook.html

I understand it can be downloaded for free (with Neal's permission) here:

   http://www.4shared.com/document/dlP-NY7 ... ER_BO.html

Five strings is not an uncommon arrangement; several builders make them.

Talk to Robin Clark at Birdrock Dulcimers there in Snowdonia.  He's building some instruments, and has a couple models made here in the US specifically for his shop.

We'll look forward to meeting you there.

Thanks Ken and Dan. Just wanted to know. I am planning to attend if all goes well.

Richard, I had a small stand for two years at Hindman. I am not vending this year. I sold books and accessories rather than instruments. I think those who did bring instruments the first year found that there was not much of an interest in buying dulcimers by participants. Maybe this year will be different.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

They are invited. I believe John is trying to go....

DAN

www.dulcimore.com

I have asked the seller and he says that he has no idea of the woods or the manufacturer. I thought that the five tuners might have been recognised by somebody. Now, I think I will buy a newly made one. I have been lucky enough to have spoken with two very knowledgeable members here and I am inclined to buy a dulcimer which has been specifically made for DAA tuning. I would keep my McSpadden in DAD. Two dulcimers is not too many, especially when most of you here seem to have about fifteen.

Does any one know if this event has dulcimer vendors?

Thanks

Nothing "wrong" with homemade as long as the fret spacing is accurate.  That could be an attempt to "bookmatch" planks on the back; but we normally do that with the splice down the center of the instrument, not off to the side.  It may be worth sending a question to the buyer, if there's time and the price is reasonable.

It could well be homemade and as has been already mentioned, there could be a crack in the back of it so I will not be bidding for it. Thank you.

It looks like a homemade instrument to me.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

There are no labels, unfortunately, and the item is for sale in the UK on eBay so I cannot tell if there are any cracks. 

No label inside the rear soundholes?  That's a real "generic" design; nothing really to distinguish it.  Is that a crack on the back, or a joint between two pieces?  

This instrument has five tuners so I do not think it is of Eastern European or Asian manufacture. Does anybody have any idea of who the manufacturer would be, please ?

 dulc3.jpg - 92KB

Szeged!  There's a spice factory there called Pride of Szeged!  They make really superior hot and smoked Paprikas, and a Fish Rub and Chicken Rub blend that I use all the time.  You may be able to find them at your local megamart!  Make a big pan of Paprikash (chicken and dumplings with lots of paprika) and play your citera while it cooks.

Thanks for the replies. I have a lot to learn.

Seems that my maker is no more as this translation of a press release explains

The Szeged Instrument Factory was established with 50-60 employees in 1953 as a council company with a mixed profile: in addition to the instruments, furniture manufacturing, upholstery and decorations were also operated. It later concentrated on instruments and due to a downturn it was closed in 2004 after it peaked production at 9400 instruments in 2001

http://www.afolk.hu/bolt/index.php/en/Tuning-of-stringed-instruments/toning-citera-hungarian-zither.html

This chart gives you a fair idea of what the tunings should be on a Citera..............by the way, a great find!

The pins appear to be standard zither wrest/tuning pins that will take a  5mm square wrench or socket
The original key does not give the fine control that a long handle wrench does so I will repurpose one of my 'old' tools

My folk Citera arrived today 
Made April Fools Day 1981 and never played
Here is a link to Flickr pictures ....

https://www.flickr.com/gp/99248490@N05/71xg25

The pictures show the makers label various details and the original spec sheet.
Any help translating the spec sheet and the suggested tunings will be appreciated greatly!
I found the makers address on Google street view but it is a modern block of flats
I have so far not found any other info on the maker
I will set about getting it into a playable condition over the weekend
So wish me good fortune!
 

The pins appear to have a square head -- should not be hard to find a clock-key to match.