Forum Activity for @nate

Thanks for the input Nate.

The bridge is actually set into the fretboard in the traditional way. It looks like it has feet because it is wider than  the fretboard. But it is loose enough to shift if the strings didn't come in square and it was notched. Based on that, I think I will leave it alone and install a new spacer bar using standard bridge material. 

I expect I will play it with a single melody string as I do with my current unit, but I was wondering if I could run a double melody through the same hole in the tail. At this point I have no interest in 4 string equidistant.

That is a really nice looking dulcimer Art.
I believe the little feet on the sides of the bridge are to brace it to keep it from slipping to either side from uneven tension of the strings. This feature is useful for dulcimers that can switch between 4 string equidistant and 3 course with paired melody strings. The four string anchors in the tailpiece of the instrument are equidistant.
If you wanted paired melody strings, because the string anchors are set up for 4 string equidistant, the inner melody string would want to pull the entire bridge sideways, and the little legs on the sides of the bridge would brace it to prevent this.
The only issue is you would need pretty deep slots so make sure the strings cant pop out of them.
The benefit of a spacer is that it has very deep slots so that the strings put tension on the sides of the slots and are already the correct distance apart before coming in contact with the bridge.
It might be worth considering to make a nicer looking, more precise spacer rather than not have one, if you are planning to play with a doubled melody string, and not 4 string equidistant. An advantage of having a spacer (and corresponding slots in the nut) is that you can switch between 4 string equidistant and paired melody strings more conveniently.
Also, as Ken suggested, you should check that the action height and bridge placement are correct, especially before reducing the height of your bridge by making slots. 
Good luck!
Nate

Art, it looks like the tuning pegs are traditional violin pegs. When tuning you need to push the pegs in to the peg box as you turn them. They stay in place by friction. There are now geared violin pegs that look like the pegs you have. Do at search for Wittner violin pegs. Some of us who build and repair dulcimers use these measurements to set action: The strings should just touch the top of a dime placed on the bridge side of the first fret and top of a nickel placed on top of the seventh fret. I think Canadian coin are about same thickness as USA coins. If you haven't already done it, it would not hurt to make sure the contact point of the bridge should be the distance from the nut to the 7th fret doubled. The StewMac fret calculator says that the break point for the strings over the saddle (bridge) should be 72.159 inches for a non compensated bridge. I agree that eliminating the crude space would make the dulcimer look better. If you put notches in the bridge, just make sure to keep the touch point (break point) of the strings in line across it.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

You are right Ken. That was one of the things I wondered about. 

My major question right now is the spacing of the strings. The spacer behind the bridge and the nut are notched for a double melody, but the middle string does not have a notch in the centre. I want to replace the rather crude spacer, but I wondered about eliminating it and notching the bridge.

While I am playing with the bridge, the action is significantly higher (5mm vs 2mm) at the last fret. I am assuming that is not ideal. The intonation gets progressively sharper as I go up the fretboard. The bridge itself is removable, but weirdly wider than the fretboard.

BTW, a neighbour makes guitars and will have all the tools we need for the above adjustments.

And lastly, for now, can someone comment on using the tuning pegs if you have them. Tuning it was a major task.

Thanks everyone for your input. This is going to be a fun journey.

Art

very nice

I agree with John. Nice find. I suspect you will ask about the cracks in the back. Those can be fixed easily with some CA glue or wood glue and clamping.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

That would work out to just about $95 in the US!  Talk about CHEAP!  You got a great value there, Art!  And an interesting piece of musical folk art.  I'm glad it plays well.  Good for you!

Hi again. I now have the instrument. I have roughly tuned it using the existing strings and it sounds wonderfull.It has a 27" vsl. The black bar is indeed the bridge. It has no groves cut in, and the piece behind it separates the strings. I took several photos which will not likely fit in this post, so I hope this link works

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1UfqabNZ7fpdn82s3u4COKXHrDiZf9auz?usp=drive_link

After you see the photos, I have a few issues to ask about.

Thanks for you interest.

Art

Dusty is correct on all this.

Traildad, you say you received an emailed notification for a topic you were following.
Then, you clicked the link in that email that says it will instantly UNsubscribe you from receiving all notifications. It's not broken, it worked as intended- your clicking on it did just as it claimed it would do- as shown in this screenshot I took just now of your current Notification settings:

As you can see, you are now unsubscribed from ALL site notifications. (because you clicked the link to make that happen)

If you wish to receive 'some' notifications again (when people comment on your items or your page, when someone posts a new post to a discussion you are following, etc) ...then please do as Dusty has suggested and go to your settings 'Notifications' tab/page and go through the selections of which notifications you'd like to start receiving again.

Contact us here if you have trouble or don't get the results you expect.  Thanks!

Hey @traildad. Are you trying to unsubscribe or just notifying us that the link may be broken? (I think you have to already be logged in for that link to work. Otherwise, the site doesn't know who you are and can't direct you to the appropriate page.)

If you want to unsubscribe or change your notification settings, hover your cursor over your username in the upper, right-hand corner of the screen.  Choose "Account Settings" from the drop-down menu.  There are three screens from which to choose.  Pick "Notifications."  You can click "Disable All Notifications" at the top or go item by item to clarify whether and how you would like a notification sent for each item.

(Fas-n-Tite Brass (plated) Linoleum Nails - Those and a toothpick in the old hole might be a good choice.)

Thanks

Walmart has " Fas-n-Tite Brass (plated) Linoleum Nails (5/8" x #16) - 0.75 oz., Steel, $1.58 "

Those and a toothpick in the old hole might be a good choice.

Wally:  right - other 2 are brass pins. Just deciding if I would go with the same type or replace all 3 with something else - yes, choices.

thanks

I received an email notification for a topic I'm watching. At the bottom there's a link to instantly unsubscribe from everything. I tried to click on the link but nothing happens. It might be a broken link. 

Why remove the nail head? The nail head makes it easier to hold a string loop on. In addition, if you simply cut the nail head off with pliers you will have a sharp end. Half an inch in length should be enough if in a hole of the right size.

My main suggestion is Look at the other string anchors and try to match them. They might be screws, nails with heads, nails without heads, brass pins, or was it wood?

Thanks Robert -

Thanks Ken - (Glue the dowel in to the hole using wood glue. )

Marg, you can make a very good end pin with a nail. Drill a hole first then glue in a nail. Tapping in a nail will shock the dulcimer and possibly break something. Remove the nail head before installing. Set the nail about 3/4" deep....Robert 

Hi, Marg. With regard to the Lazenby dulcimer I would not use wood filler on it. Instead I would plug the hole with a piece of hardwood dowel rod. You will need to measure the diameter of the hole when you take the screw out. You might need to enlarge the hole a bit to fit a readily available dowel. Glue the dowel in to the hole using wood glue. You will then need to drill a hole the diameter of the end pin or just a hair smaller and tap the pin in place. This hole should be drilled at a slight angle like the other ones. Those look like standard hitch pins. It might be hard to just by one. If you send me a private message with your address I'll send you one. I'm pretty sure I have a few of them downstairs in my shop. I won't be venturing down there for the next week or so until my eyes get adjusted to the cataract surgery I had yesterday. Hope this helps you.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Thanks Ken,

I think  the  geared violin tuners like Wittners - may be something to try. I don't want to widen the holes so, I may just keep the Sam Carroll with it's pegs. I have changed the ones in my Warren May dulcimers with the Grovers, without any adjustments. I don't want to do anything to the dulcimer, that couldn't be undone - like putting screws on the sides for gears. 

Side note:  The Lazenby dulcimer I just got is missing it's end Bass pin. (Looks to me as if someone maybe tried tightening the string and instead of it breaking, it just pulled the pin out.) Should I find an end pin like the others or replace all 3 - also should I put wood filler in the stripped hole?

 end pins.jpg - 172KB

Friction tuners like Grovers offer tradition, while geared options like Five Star provide precision. Cost varies, and you might also consider replacing wood pegs with geared violin tuners like Wittners for a different look.

The fret markings clearly are a major feature of the claims. He states:

"In a stringed instrument, the combination, with the sounding board or base, of the separate parallel longitudinal bridge-bars, each having a group of four strings, a line of line of frets, and note-scales , and having the keys for the strings at one end of each bridge-bar set at the opposite ends of the sounding-board, substantially as herein set forth."

The drawing almost certainly has shape notes because he says:

"The note-scales may be made in characters such as are found in the “Sacred Harp” and in the “Temple Harp,” or indicated by do, re, mi, &c."

Actually, on close reading, it looks like it may only apply to the combination of the features, not to any on them singularly. Not to worry, it expired long ago. .

There are many patents for specific instrument designs which are more-or-less actually sort of trademarks. This is particularly true on "anyone-can-play-this" instruments.

I find the patent interesting because it reinforces our knowledge of many features as being broadly* known by 1880.

• Four string designs
• Rectangular sound boxes
• Fret labels
• Zither/piano pin tuners
• Wire strings

*The patentee resided in the flat Mid-Georgia country, not in the hills of KY-NC-WV-VA

@wally-venable - in the patent world, that is called 'making a broad claim'.  However, anyone can create something that has a few slight differences and present it as something new. The patent holder would then have to shoulder the expense of legally defending their claim, which is often more trouble and expense than worth doing. In this case, the idea of claiming all possible sizes, shapes, and variations of a simple stringed instrument is patently ridiculous (pun intended).

I'm now thinking that perhaps this patent was actually for the system of fret marking on a simple learning/teaching instrument...shown on the drawings. There are something similar to shape-note symbols inscribed on each fret- identifying the notes produced at various positions on the fretboard. A patent for a specific method of teaching/learning using such fret markers would be more easily patentable, and one could then more logically include the broader claim that it applies to whatever size/shape of the base instrument.  Does the patent description mention this marking system?

"Greenbriar", I think was the name of the dulcimer shop.

Yes, the one you saw posted looks to be the same. This one,  was a custom one made back in '89 for someone. Bob Lazenby, joined FOTMD a few years ago but after his welcome - nothing ever was posted. With your help and everyone here (I read the post from about 8 yrs ago on adding a fret or not, to one of Bob's dulcimers), maybe all the information I will find out but its a beautiful dulcimer and plays so nicely.

It just needs a few fixes (like one of the end pins is missing - trying to decide wood filler & another pin or all new something) but soon, I hope to be strumming and let it's voice ring.

thank you all

Thanks Ron for you reply and the images of the 2 different woods.

  Someone I play dulcimer with thought it was Birdseye, I was just going on that. It's a Greenbrian Pigeon River dulcimer by Bob Lazenby.

  You're probably correct, you would know and  your 2 photos  - this dulcimer doesn't look like the eyes in your photo but maybe more like the Leopard Wood grain. It didn't sound like the Birdseye made a good tonewood, so good it's not that. If it's Leopard Wood, hopefully that is a better wood for dulcimers. Are you familiar with Bob's Greenbrian dulcimers? I can't find out much information on them. 

  I love listening to your dulcimer samples on your web page. I tell many of the new players to check your site out. I have one of your capos but not one of your dulcimer's, as of yet. Thank you very much for your reply & steering me away from thinking - Birdseye

That's a pretty colorful journey.

John,

It is a lovely looking instrument with the Birdseye maple,  nicely done

Ken,

Thanks for the information. 

Ambrosia maple vs Birdseye maple - both maple but a good bit different - interesting.

( Flat sawn wood is not particularly recommended for instrument building as it makes the wood more difficult to bend without splitting. - After the finished applied, it is fairly stable.)      Hope so

Here are 2 photos.  Not very good quality, but you can see what I mean.

 birds.jpg - 75KB

I once made an hourglass dulcimer completely out of birdseye maple.  It looked wonderful, was somewhat heavy, had an OK tone.  The wood behaved like plain hard maple when fashioning the dulcimer.  I sold it to my younger brother.

Well, Birdseye maple is hard maple (acer saccharum). According to the Wood Database, the Birdseye figure comes from poor growing conditions where the tree attempts to get more sunlight by creating more buds. The buds looks like eyes when the wood is cut; especially when flat sawn. Flat sawn wood is not particularly recommended for instrument building as it makes the wood more difficult to bend without splitting. My guess is that once the wood is bent and a finished applied, it is fairly stable. I've never worked with it. As a dulcimer wood I think it is of average quality being more valued for its appearance than for its tonal properties. I'm sure there are other opinions out there so don't take this a rule.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

 What thoughts were you looking for:

(quality of it as a wood for a dulcimer or prone to cracking problems?)

I know nothing about the wood, was looking for some information - anything someone knew about Birdseye Maple, as a dulcimer wood

I'll refer back to Ken's question: What thoughts were you looking for?

You seem to be satisfied with the dulcimer. Maybe you could be more explicit with the reason for your question/speculation about the quality of its, other woods, cracking problems. I couldn't see evidence of cracks in your photos.

thanks for your thoughts:

Yes, it does have a brighter sound - it has very good responsive.

Thoughts on the quality of it as a wood for a dulcimer. Maybe used more in the past for guitars but other woods maybe better now as tone woods or any problems with cracking?

Photo of an older dulcimer, that so far is in beautiful shape.

In my experience, figured wood is not good tonewood. Ken is probably right about it producing a brighter tone. Whether it would be responsive and capable of good sustain is another question.

That being said, so much is determined by the maker's design and process.

Many years ago the Guild of American Luthiers held a contest for the best guitar made with unconventional wood. The winning guitar was made from a shipping pallet.

What Ken said.

Not sure what type of thoughts you are looking for Marg, but Birdseye maple is a pretty wood. It should produce a little brighter sound from it than from walnut or mahogany. Of course, other factors come in to play; e.g., shape, material of the top, VSL, depth of sound box, etc.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Thoughts on a  Birdseye Maple dulcimer - back & sides?

NateBuildsToys:

Ken Hulme:

@shanonmilan --the vast majority of us (traditionalists and moderns) play dulcimer horizontally -- "string side up" on our laps or on a table or stand.  There are a few who play it more vertically -- like a guitar...

 
I play behind my back, Like Stevie Ray Vaughn.
I like to leave my best performances behind me 

Hahahaha. You got me laughing and rolling on the floor on that one.

Indeed! Including Christ the Lord Is Risen Tomorrow...!  (tada-bump)

Actually that would make a beautiful chord melody piece.  : - )