Forum Activity for @bob-reinsel

Marg, when I think about "tone quality", I think of three things pitch, volume and timber.  String choice has an effect on all of these.  First, let's define what I mean: 

Pitch: the note to which the string is tuned.  You also see this referred to as tension.  More tension = higher pitch, less tension = lower pitch.  Lighter weight strings can be tuned to a higer pitch than heavier strings because they require less tension to reach that pitch.

Volume: loudness.  Heavier strings can produce greater volume than lighter ones

Timber: (pronounced tam-ber) This is all of those sound qualities that are not Pitch or Volume.  Highly subjective and influenced by many many factors such as Wout mentions above: body design, wood choice, string materials, etc.

So, string choice is really a personal choice as to what you think sounds best on your instrument.  For example, for many years I have played medium weight, John Pearse phosphor bronze wound strings on my guitar because I get greater bass response and a warm tone.  Right now I like the McSpadden flat wound (squeakless) strings on one of my instruments because thery sound mellow and sweet on it and I have another strung up with nickel wound tenor banjo strings because they are brassy and bright. (and I found them at my local music shop in a pinch)

Robin Thompson plays an instrument with all plain steel strings of the same guage tuned to the same note.  

Have fun and don't be afraid to try something new! 

Great idea Bob, will def. try this on some old Champions I have.

Thanks for sharing that information. I haven't liked the slot head screws either. I will have to try this on one of my dulcimers that still has the Champions on it.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Ken, another size of strings, with the same length and pitch, needs a different tension, which will result in another building-up of overtones, which one can clearly hear, even at an old age ;-) Designing strings is a difficult job. Designing an instrument too. Lets take a look at the piano. If the bass strings weren't different in size with the others, an octave lower would mean a string twice as long. Even the grand piano would be too small. These strings are designed to sound at a special pitch with a special volume. The length is (almost) fixed. When changing the pitch of the string, mostly higher (an A into a D on the dulcimer), the tension of string is changed, also higher, which enable the string to produce higher overtones. The string will sound slightly different... In the piano the sizes differ to get the same building of overtones all over the strings, because the tension is almost the same.

The human ear is the best instrument to measure this. There are musicians, who has no prefect hearing, but are able to hear a music piece is played in 432 Hz or in 440 Hz. I am able to detect a 'false' sized string on a guitar. The dulcimer is harder, simple because the instrument is played in a different style.

On all my dulcimers 26 and27" I use 012 012 014 022. This size works for Dad and Daa. It could be that your dulcimer just doesn't sound good. I built a very beautiful black walnut model that has no tone at all. I've made many modifications and it still sounds bad. It will end up as kindling wood come winter... Robert. 

length is a tad under 27". I have checked the string gage. Just wondering if in DAA i should have melody and middle both the same string size? How much does that makes a difference? Or is it not something that can make much of a diference? All good just not the best voice yet.

That's a great idea.  I never liked the slotted bolts either.

Marg, it would help to know the scale length... Robert

Thank you, John, that was beautiful.  It's fascinating how a tune can change. 

You've given us the perfect solution to our dilemna: 

Q: Which version to play? 

A: All of them! 

ken

    it's the red stain dulcimer, I am still playing around with. It has an old time sound to it, which I like but something just isn't right yet with the overall sound. I have put 2 strings back on for a class i am starting today but think it really sounds better with just one on the melody. Since I will be DAA mostlyI was wondering if the middle string should be the same as the melody, that's why I was asking how much of a difference the strings sizes could make. If you can remember from many many years ago, do you recall what size strings you had on yours to make it sing how you wanted?

dan

(many variables that determine the tone of every dulcimer)

Wout

(the different soundbox or wood -  one has to experiment - I mostly play in DAA,)

    I like the 12 string size on melody for my 2 other dulcimers but this last one, an older 1970's dulcimer I'm haven't gotten it to sound pleasig as of yet. I have it tune to DAA and had 1 melody string on it to start but I am starting a DAA class today so put 2 - 12's on. I do feel I liked just the way just 1 string sounded better - maybe because it was thiner or just 1? Since I maybe will play mostly DAA on this dulcimer should I also have the middle string the same size as the melody? Maybe that is where I am running into trouble with the tone.

   Yes, experiment is needed on this dulcimer to find it's voice and that was the thought of the post to see how much of a difference the strings can make.    thanks

String gauge and tone quality?  As mentioned there is no overall "right" string gauge.  Just gauges for particular tuning ranges. 

What do you mean by "tone quality"?  How do you think string gauge would effect whatever that is?

I believe it would take extremely accurate instrumentation to be able tell if there was any difference in "tone quality" (whatever that means) between a .010 and a .012 gauge string on the melody course (either of which would be usable)  in Ddd tuning, for example.  Even if you had perfect pitch, I don't think you could hear the difference between a .010 and a .012 string tuned to the same note on the same instrument (double melody strings, one .010, the other .012, both tuned to the same note)

Quick demo of 4 different version of this song.

Tuning is A'AA

1st is the Tommy Jarrell/Bruce Molsky - As Time Draws Near.

 As you know a lot of songs are built on the same or closely related melodies. Little Sparrow is very close to ERB. The tab to LS might be easier to find. LS was one of the first songs I learned and when I heard ERB it instantly came out of the dulcimer. I play it Daa... Familiarise one song makes learning similar songs easy... Robert...

I did a quick demo a while back, but can't find the post using the search. Probably in amongst the coments somewhere.

Here it is again. The fret order looks a bit scarey, so if you can try and learn it by ear from the sound clip you may find it easier.

The right string is a combination between length, size and tension. The three strings on the dulcimer when bought in one package are 'matching'. Surely there are packages for sale which offer a different combination for your dulcimer, which have a different volume, resonance and playability for that particular instrument. So one has to experiment. Take one brand of strings which offers different matches. Buy a package of each and renew the strings every week (!) Try the same songs on each set, hopefully remembering how the other ones are sounding. Make notes about which string 'speaks' better than the others (sounds louder or is easier to play). Use them also in different tunings when playing in a other mode. It is possible one string fits better in another set, due to the different soundbox or wood. I mostly play in DAA, in which the middle string is too loud on my instrument. Replacing it by a thinner one makes the balance for me (less tension). I play a Blue Lion and I suspect it's luthier emphased the volume of the 2nd string to balance the double melody, which I play single. This volume is created by the instrument itself and the Blue Lion luthier, I think, has the nowledge and the capability to construct it this way. I can't tell for sure, because I have only one Bleu Lion

Check out this discussion at Everything Dulcimer . You will find links to audio versions, video versions, and also tablature both for noter/drone play and for chorded play.

Jan is sorta kinda probably correct, or not.  The West Virginia fiddler Ernie Carpenter wrote the song (in the 1950s, I think) and you would expect it to be under copyright. However, I have not found any evidence that the song is copyrighted, and everyone (not just dulcimer players) seems to both credit Carpenter for its composition and also post music and tablature freely.

Marg, in my opinion there is no "right" string size.  Their are ranges of string sizes "right" for melody, middle and bass strings, but the "right" size is the string or string set that the player feels is most pleasing to his/her ears.  My ranges of size personally are 8 - 12 melody 12 - 16 middle and 20 - 26 bass. There are many variables that determine the tone of every dulcimer., (sound box volumne VSL, intonation, wood type, etc.) 

Someone posted the fret numbers here several weeks ago, either here or one the old site.  I haven't been able to locate the posts yet but I am sure that they are here somewhere.  A search of "Elk River Blues" didn't show any results.  Some one will probably find it or post it tomorrow when everyone has had a chance to see the request.

How much of a difference does the right size strings have on the tone quality of the dulcimer? 

I think this is under copyright still.

Looking for DAA Tab to Elk River Blues. Thank you

Seamus, you could actually use Robin's tab to play my version, just tune to D-G-d instead of D-a-a.  The fret postiions are the same, but because of the tuning the key is different, so the written notes will be different.  If you stick to the fret numbers and rhythm it should work.

I worked up an easy noter drone version of the tune in DAA a couple of years ago to play at the local open mic as a duet with the daughter of some friends - Ella Morgan.  We recorded the tune as we were learning it, to see how it was going.  I think I used my small bodied Ed Thomas repro strung with piano wire and played with noter and thumb strum to try and get as trad a sound as possible for the dulcimer part.

http://k001.kiwi6.com/hotlink/jvdd6bucnv/blackest_crow_-_ella_31_oct_13a.mp3

I've attached a TAB for this version.

The Blackest Crow .pdf - 22KB

Sheryl, you're welcome. Here ia a fake book that I use occasionally, but like. http://www.amazon.com/The-Ultimate-Fake-Book-Instruments/dp/0793529395  I use it occasionally because I don't own it, but my son does. So when I visit him in California I dig it out and play some tunes. If you like fiddle tunes, the Fiddlers' Fake Book is excellent. Many of those songs need to be transposed. Many fiddle tunes are in "A" but quite a few are in "D." Again, I don't own, but my son does. You can get fake books for many genres of music.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Interesting, thanks for explaining, Ken.

A fake book usually contains the words to a song and a simple melody accompaniment. Chords may be inserted above the music staff as names "E," "A," "D," etc. It is up to you to figure out any chordal or harmony accompaniment. In other words, it gives you the bones to the song and it is up to you to put flesh on them. I like fake books in the key of C because they easily can be played in DAA.

Ken

"The dulcmer sings a sweet song."

The graphite is a just a lubricant. It is often sold in powder form to be used in key locks to keep the action nice and smooth. If you look at the setup of the strings over the nut, there is generally quite an angle between the axis of the string that is strummed, and the part of the string that goes from the nut to the tuning machine. That is the point where a bit of lubricant can really make a big difference. Some folks have used silicon grease or even cooking oil...not realy sure which is best....but hey...we're not send a man to the moon here.

 Let me see if I can put something together for you...

( Apply pencil graphite on the nut and bridge. That helps reduce breakage)

Why is this? What does the graphite do to help prevent string breadage?

    I am starting a class in DAA but will continue to go to practice that is tune to DAd, I will be changing my strings back and forth often. If this works it will be a great cofort not to be breaking strings alone the way. Thanks for this Robert but how does it work?

Good ideas. He already knows I'll Follow You...he sings it too. I play Chords, flatpicking and fingerpicking. Thanks for the great suggestions. What is a "fake book"? Thanks

Seamus, here is my version.  I'm tuned D-G-d

https://soundcloud.com/bob-reinsel/blackest-crow

Gerald. Apply pencil graphite on the nut and bridge. That helps reduce breakage. Strings should last until you want to change them. I've got sets that are 10 years old and still doing well... Welcome to the world of tunings. Exciting times await... Robert.

The whippersnappers in the local ukulele club taught me a couple of Death Cab songs that I think would sound wonderful on MD and guitar:  I'll Follow You Into the Dark and Stay Young, Go Dancing. 

In return, I teach them Bob Dylan songs.  You Ain't Going Nowhere.  Wagon Wheel (not entirely Dylan, but hey).  Mr. Tambourine Man. 

What about those '70s folk groups like Steeleye Span and Fairport Convention?  All those versions of Matty Groves and John Barleycorn aren't "modern songs" but they do seem to split the difference between indie rock and 17th century ;-)   Also Paul Simon in his Scarborough Fair and April Come She Will period. 

Are you playing chords, playing melody, or both?  The chords for all these songs are easy to find on the internet.  Sheet music for the melody can be purchased in a fake book (be sure it includes the melody lines and not just chords). Dulcimer tab will be hard to find.  If you need tab, then Matty Groves and john Barleycorn are looking better than ever!

It may just be me, but I tell you I've gone through a number of strings over the years, not from overreaching to another tuning, but simply from going up and down a full step on a string a number of times.  So the string easily reaches either a D or a C, but if I were to go back and forth a number of times, that string is going to pop!  I think the extra strings is a terrific idea, Kevin.

It is comfortable on the lap and there's a big difference in volume. I like the fact that it fits with all my dulcimers. It also has strap buttons if you want to do that.

My son plays folk guitar, I play MD. He is 19, and he has agreed to learn songs we can play together. I like 17th century, and early American tunes, he likes Indie Rock (Jack Johnson, Death Cab for Cutie, Benjamin Gibbard, and the like. I am willing to learn modern pieces so that he will actually play his guitar with me, and we can spend some time together playing. I am looking for suggestions for some modern pieces we can learn. Doesn’t have to be Indie Rock, maybe some 70’s tunes. He likes American Pie, and some other songs from the 70’s. Any suggestions?

I stumbled on this thread by accident. Been playing for a couple of years now and mostly in DAD. Was thrilled some time ago to discover DAC which opened up a whole new world of tunes for me. Been jotting down some of the "allternative" tunings offered here, and have almmost run out of paper ! Can't wait to sit down and try a few. By the sounds of it, I think I'd better stop by the music shop first, and stock up on strings : )

Susie, how comfortable is this type of possum board? Does it sit nicely on one's lap? And, do you notice quite a difference in volume?  Thanks!