Forum Activity for @salt-springs

Well there is a ton of good advice here that will obviously help.  One thing I would do is check my tuner and make sure that is accurate or at least reasonably accurate and that it is set to A440.  Some folk say that does not make any difference but it seems to do so if it is far enough off. (I use a Korg tuner, those clip on just never worked well for me).

Another thing you might do is make sure the tuning keys are tight and not slipping when you press down on the strings.  I had one that after a few years the screw that held them firm had loosened and every time I pressed a string it would loosen just enough to throw the contraption out of whack.  This really good to know if the action is a bit to high and the pressure on the string puts enough tension on the string to move the tuner gear. It gets worse the further up the board you go.

I always tune strings when the string is vibrating....it is easier to see where you are at, just make sure that you give it a good solid strum.  Wimpy strums will make it impossible to tune accurately.

And last, put some new strings on it if you have not already done so.  

The explanation between different temperaments below is primo.........if it is just temperment, the tuner can help but it will be next to impossible to get 100% in tune from the tuner.  

And do post a pic of your dulcimer, I would love to see it since old dulcimers are becoming my thing lately.

Beverly, a couple of closeup photos would really help here-  one of the bridge with the strings in the slots... and another of the nut and including the first three frets.

Are the strings ancient?  Sometimes really old strings can sound a little out of tune when fretted.

This topic remains important & I recommend prowling for Care of the Painful Thumb.  Occupational Therapists recommend it.  Just having a few exercises to strengthen the muscles involved can really help.  I was also told women have naturally weaker thumbs.  I find exercise when mine hurt help.

Not sure if tart cherries & its juice truly help, but it's delicious & I know somebody who swears by it for arthritis.

Apologies for bringing up so late, but it is a problem that hits many.

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Trying to catch back posts from times too busy to check in here.

I suspect the bridge may have been accidentally moved and not put exactly back in place.  As little as 1/16" -- 1/8" would make all the difference.

WHO made you dulcimer? It should say on a label stuck to the inside bottom, if you look through the rear soundholes.  Also, a close-up photo of the top and side of the bridge would be a big help.  We might be able to see evidence of a move there.

Is Your Dulcimer Just-Tempered or Equal-Tempered?

Another possibility is the type of scale.  Back in 1973 many dulcimer builders were still making dulcimers with a just-tempered scale.  In just-tempered scales the frets are placed to get the best fit with the bass and middle drones.  The idea is to get a sweet blending of the melody, which is changing in pitch as you fret at different locations, and the drones which remain constant in pitch.

Most modern dulcimers have equal-tempered scales.  In equal-tempered scales the frets are placed to get the sweetest harmonies when playing chords.  The difference between the two is slight, but it is noticeable.

Traditionally, dulcimers were fretted by ear to get the melody string to blend well with the drones.  Dulcimer players weren't playing chords back in the old days. They used the traditional just-tempered scale.  Some builders, such as Leonard and Clifford Glenn, continued to fret their dulcimers in this manner throughout the 20th century.  

However, many modern builders adopted a guitar-like approach, which adjusted the frets slightly from the just-tempered scale to get purer sounding chords.  They used an equal-tempered scale.  Most modern dulcimers use this scale.

If you have a good ear you will be able to tell the difference.  Chords won't sound quite right with a just-tempered scale.  And the blending of melody and drones won't sound quite right with an equal-tempered scale.

Did your bridge move?

All that being said, if there is evidence that your bridge has moved, it is an easy fix.  It may take some patience as you may need to move the bridge several times to find the best location.  When you do, I'd mark the location of the bridge to make sure you can relocate the bridge if it moves again.  If your bridge has moved, it is not attached to the fingerboard, and it should slide easily when the strings are loosened.

Were the frets misplaced when the dulcimer was built?

Unfortunately, a large number of dulcimers were built with inaccurate fretting.  If that is the case there is not much you can do short of having the instrument refretted by a professional.  Remember, the ear develops over time and becomes more sensitive to slight differences in pitch.  When I first began playing I relied totally on an electronic tuner.  As the years passed, I discovered the strings still needed a slight adjustment (fine-tuning if you will) after the first run-through with the electric tuner.  I can now easily tune by ear.  When you purchased the dulcimer in 1973, it sounded fine and the scale seemed accurate.  Now, your ear is more sensitive to slight differences.  It could be due to the type of scale (just or equal-tempered) or it could be that the instrument wasn't fretted correctly in the first place and your ear didn't hear the difference at that point in your musical development.

I tune the open strings to DAD, but the rest of the frets don't follow suit.  For example, my open melody string will be tuned to D, but the E on the first fret is slightly off pitch.  And the F# on the second fret is off pitch even more, etc.  I hope that's a clearer explanation of what's happening.

I'm pretty sure it used to be in tune when I first bought it.  Whatever has happened seems to have happened over the years.  If it is the bridge that is the issue, then that would be repairable? 

Thanks for your responses!

26" is shorter than most standard McSpaddens.  You are also tuning CGC- lower than the most common standard tunings. The combination of these two factors means your strings are a little bit looser than normal setups.  Looser strings means when you pluck them (or pull offs), the arc at which they vibrate will be wider... they'll move more when vibrating.  This makes them accidentally buzz against one or more frets.

You can make those strings a bit more taut by one of two ways:  either tune UP a step to DAd and play in the key of D, OR simply get some slightly thicker gauge strings and put those on.  Thicker strings will be tighter even if you stay in CGC.  Look for strings that are just one step thicker-  for example if the current string is .022 get .024 instead.  
That's probably all you need to do for the buzzing to be gone. Fresh strings that are a wee bit heavier... thus tighter with less wild vibration arc when plucked.

What Banjimer said!  The frets have not moved.    The bridge may have moved.  A reasonable close-up photo showing the whole instrument and a close-up of the bridge area would be helpful.

You're tuning to a specific fret?  We don't really do that.  We tune the dulcimer strings to DAA, DAd or something else, and then press the melody string(s) down at a specific fret (or make chords using all three courses of strings.  Sorry if that sounds simplistic, I'm trying to understand.

When you aren't fretting, are the strings staying in tune at DAA, DAd or whatever you are tuned to?   You say you "get one fret right but the others are off".  Do you mean you are not getting a 'good' do, re, mi, fa... scale as you move up the frets on the melody string or on all three strings?  

The frets haven't moved since they are placed securely in the fretboard.  However, the bridge may have moved which would explain some frets being in tune and others out of tune.

Another possibility is that the dulcimer was never fretted accurately when the instrument was made, and you are just beginning to notice it now that you have more experience and are playing it more.

Do you know who made the dulcimer?  Many dulcimers were constructed by amateurs unfamiliar with how to correctly place the frets and/or the bridge.  The most likely explanation is that the bridge has moved and needs to be placed back in the correct position.  Measure the distance from the nut to the 7th fret.  The bridge should be approximately twice that distance from the nut.  For example, if the 7th fret measures 13 1/2 inches from the nut, the bridge should be roughly 27 inches from the nut.

I got my first dulcimer in 1973.  Now the frets seem to be out of alignment because it is impossible to tune--I get one fret right but the others are off.  I think it may be because (I'm sad to admit) I didn't take proper care of it, and left it in a dorm room that wasn't temp controlled over the holidays. Is this something that can be repaired? 

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and good going 10 years :-) 

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Hard to believe, it seems like yesterday. 

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What every mountain dulcimer player needs to try...I've had mountain oysters when I lived out west in Texas & Oklahoma. Actually, very tasty. 

A hot dog is weird enough for me. Who even knows what it's made of?  Probably all that stuff that @Phroedrick lists as a no go.

Ate smoked duck heart once on a salad in France. It was tasty.

Ordered scrapple by accident in a greasy spoon in Pennsylvania or maybe the Jersey shore.  I won't do it again.

There are lots of Mexican joints around town that serve fresh menudo on weekends. On Saturday nights especially the line to some of these places can run for blocks.  I won't touch the stuff.  Sorry.

Inside the nut to the 7th fret (not 12th) and double that.  Gives you a really close start point for the inside of the bridge.  You may need a minor tweak plus or minus...

How "old" is "older"?  Are you talking 70s or 50s?

Well I learned a mildly clever song from Stephen Seifert.  I think he just called it "Chili Bean."  My daughter and I added a verse.

The main verse goes

My dog Chili likes to roam

One day Chili ran from home

Came back looking not so clean

Where oh where has Chile bean?

Then there's a verse about a horse named Pinto and so forth,  My daughter and I wrote this verse:

My fish Jelly likes to roam

One day Jelly swam from home

Came back purple, red and green

Where oh where has Jelly bean?

Mark & I do Down the Road together and once in a great while I'll play mountain dulcimer on part of it/take breaks on it.  (It is so hard for me to sing and play at the same time!)

In the song "my old hat's got a hole in the top" and "rocks in the road as big as a churn".  We sing choruses and if I'm on MD there are breaks.  

I like cow's tongue, but not Rocky Mountain Oysters are too chewy for me.  I love cabrito -- we have Cuban restaurants around here who do a sort of goat osso bucco which is outstanding.  

My Dad fixed tongue [cow] which was then sliced. Had some good haggis and neeps [mashed turnips] in Scotland. Germans have magen [tripe] soup and pickled herring sandwiches. Both are good. Fifty- fifty beer and carbonated lemonade [Germany]. Tried menudo, bleh and cabrito [young goat]. Supreme pizza with anchovies. Alligator and some of the other regional Southern foods, most of which is pretty good [that I've tried]. I'm sure there are more western European dishes I've tried, but it's been 30+ years ago.

Tried Crow a few times, don't like it at all.

When plucked, the string will vibrate to produce sound.  I'm certainly no expert, but I suspect the buzzing is related to two factors: 1.) the direction in which you are plucking the string and  2.) the space between the string and nearby frets.

If the plucking finger is pulled off "parallel" to the fingerboard you will have less buzzing because the string vibrates from side to side making it less likely to contact nearby frets.  If the plucking finger is pulled up in a "perpendicular"  direction from the fretboard you may have more buzzing because the string vibrates up and down making it more likely to make contact with nearby frets.

Obviously the space between the string and nearby frets will also play a part.  The string is closest to the frets at the peghead end of the fretboard.  This may explain why you are experiencing the buzzing only at the 1st and 2nd fret.

Since the string only buzzes when you do pull-offs I suspect it is related to number 1 above, but it may be related to how forcefully you pluck the string.

I get buzzes which seem to be weather-related.  Just a thought.  Though the wood is no longer living as a tree, it 'lives' in a different way now, subject to all sorts of changes. 

Yup, the black pudding is OK and some of the Haggis I've had is pretty good.   But the Tom Thumb was pretty rough.........it was basically organ meat and suet, fermented then smoked.  Even that can be ok, depending on what meats are used and how it is smoked.  Same with the Hassel, only it is stewed instead of made into the sausage then potato, onion etc. added.   I guess it's the lungs (lights) that bugged me.

I'm with you on the tripe, the noodle and noodles. 

Without actually watching you, I suspect it's your technique at fault, not the dulcimer.  Especially since it's not an every-time thing. 

Your cheap guitar doesn't do it because,  1. You've been playing guitar longer; and 2.  The mechanics/physical movements of a pull off with your hand wrapped around a neck vs. your hand on top of the fretboard are two completely different things.  Apples and oranges.

VSL and tuning shouldn't matter one iota, unless your strings are a very wide mis-match for the tuning. and the strings are very floppy.

I eat Haggis and Black (a.ka. Blood) Pudding every time we go to the UK.  I actually like both and would rather eat them than American Scrapple or Head Cheese, Braunschweiger or Goose Liver pate.  I'm not otherwise fond of organ meats -- particularly the Mexican soup called Menudo -- cow stomach tripe in broth.

I've had Potted Rabbit, too, which appears in those Victorian novels, and is just a nice patè -- like Deviled Ham but not spicy -- and goes great on crackers.  Very tasty.

The one thing I've eaten that I'll never touch again unless protocol and international relationships are at stake is Monkey Brains.  I was served this delicacy at a Vietnamese party; a homecoming for my housemaid's husband.  Doesn't taste like much except spicy chiles, but has a weird texture... Blah!

Tom Thumb, a type of Haggis...........common among the Carolina Scotts of days gone by...........I think you can only develop a taste for it after a couple of pulls off a Mason Jar full of fresh shine (check for bubbles).  The other thing some folks used to fix was called hog hassel, same beverage applies. 

When I am practicing pulls offs on the Bass and Middle strings on the 1st and @nd frets, sometimes I get a buzz and sometimes not. Seems like I have to pull off very lightly. Is this due to my technique or lack of technique? I just got a wonderful sounding McSpadden so I hope it is me and not the instrument. My cheapest guitar doesn’t do it when I pull off. 

Any suggestions? Thanks

FYI, it is a 26”vsl and I do tune mostly in CGC because my Dulcimer tunes to CGC.

A blast from the past:

https://fotmd.com/forums/forum/off-topic-discussions/3354/fotmd-one-year-anniversary-on-july-29th-2010#r3378

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I have had good luck purchasing the nut for an acoustic guitar and using that as the saddle, what you are calling the bridge.  The saddle (bridge) is what transmits most of the string vibrations to the soundbox which in turns amplifies the sound.  Your choice of material will influence the sound of your dulcimer.  Yes, wood works.  Softer woods will produce a softer sound with more overtones.  The harder the wood, the crisper the sound.  Some musicians will use very hard substances, including brass, to get a sharp twangy sound.

My personal favorite is to purchase a guitar nut made from bone.  (Try ebay, less than$5, less than $1 if you can wait on shipping.)  You will need to cut slots for the strings, in a pinch a common hacksaw will work.  The clean sound produced will reward your efforts.

Thanks to all of you. I now know what I have to do.

I have 2 Warren May dulcimers and a Ken Hamblin...........all needed new floating bridges............got a couple of chopsticks and cut the square end, sanded them level to proper height, notched the little stinkers and they worked just fine.  You can also go to a craft store/hardware store buy a dollar square dowel and shave a triangle piece off it, cut to length and notch it............ tune the middle string to the octave, angle it for the others and tune the rascal up........there should be a piece in this forum by pristine2 that will tell you how to do that............have fun. 

Like KenH I searched Google Images for pictures of Richard Wilson dulcimers.  This is the only link I could find with a close-up of the tail end of the dulcimer showing the bridge.  You may have to sift through the pictures of the dulcimer to find the one with the close up of the bridge.  Incidentally, the bridge looks movable and appears to be held in place only by the string tension.

https://reverb.com/item/2775553-1989-richard-denise-wilson-diamond-designs-hearts-dulcimer-like-new-with-case-paperwork

I'm not sure if all Wilson dulcimers had similar bridges, but this one looks like it was made from maple.  If this one is any indication, Richard probably used whatever hardwood scraps he had left over after making dulcimers.