Forum Activity for @robin-thompson

How precisely do you tune up?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Tuning from the tuner is one thing.  Sharpening a note when I use a noter is another-- noter pressure can do that. (me with my noter)   

instrument question- Stephens Lutherie/holy grail dulcimer?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Thanks you guys are the best. I'll keep my eyes open for Bing's episode.  The beauty of YouTube is that one can slow it down.

Just got a real instrument a Folk roots. My first one was a cheap import, waste of money oh well live and learn. Thanks again all for the good input. stay dry.😁

Richard Krueger Psaltery

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

 

It's amazing how innovations can arise from the need to address specific challenges, like encouraging proper bow technique in students. And it's great to hear that you've had the opportunity to explore playing the BP with custom-made bows using alternative materials.

How precisely do you tune up?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I guess when talking about tuning precisely it's two kind of separate questions. Not only the question of "how close to dead on do you get it" but also "what do you count as dead on" since as folks mention, the 'sweetest' pitch might not be exactly where the 12 tone equal tempered note is. I was more curious about how meticulously people are about getting the instrument to their desired pitch, but the topic of choosing to tune slightly sharp of flat is also really fascinating
Nate

updated by @nate: 02/08/24 01:47:03AM

Richard Krueger Psaltery

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Something I notice that has me a bit puzzled.
In the Schilling book of instruction and song,
the pin configuration and tuning on the psaltery
that is illustrated is quite different compared
to my psaltery. Mine has fewer strings, and the tuning starts
and ends with F on the natural side, whereas the sharps and flats
side omits all the B's and E's.
   Anybody see something that I am not educated enough to understand ?
I might mention this, the shorter strings are much harder to achieve a good tune.
The longer strings seem to fall right in place.
I would say that these strings are original and show slight discolorations throughout.
  

instrument question- Stephens Lutherie/holy grail dulcimer?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

It just so happens that the next episode of Bing Futch's Dulcimerica (#687) will feature Bing Futch playing and teaching Shaving a Dead Man.  Check it out in a day or two whenever it drops.

instrument question- Stephens Lutherie/holy grail dulcimer?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I just stumbled on a 14yr old video of our own @randy-adams playing that old banjer tune on one of his cigar box instruments   :

Reasons NOT To Get a Chromatic

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

@ocean-daughter.  If you tune a Bagpipe tuning:  Ddd or Ccc for example, you can play both Ionian/Mixolydian and Aeolian/Dorian modal scales *without* having to have a 6+ fret!    

Richard Krueger Psaltery

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

That's a Bowed Psaltery, not a plucked psaltery.  And a very nice BP it is too! 

The BP was supposed developed in post-WWII Germany by a violin teacher trying to get his students to bow correctly.  Whatever the truth, they are nice instruments, and you don't need a full sized bow to play them.  A simple 18" or so bow will work jut fine.  Several years ago I was gifted a BP and made some simple bows to play it with, using all sorts to waxed string other than horsehair/

instrument question- Stephens Lutherie/holy grail dulcimer?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

The song dates back to the 1930s at least, and does not appear to be copyright protected. No dulcimer tab I could find.  Best to sing/hum/whistle the tune until you KNOW it, then sit down and pick it out on youe melody tring and write the tab as you go...

updated by @ken-hulme: 02/07/24 09:44:27PM

instrument question- Stephens Lutherie/holy grail dulcimer?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Lilley, Dusty is correct as far as I know. 
I think you'd have to work it out on the dulcimer for yourself (either making a simple tab or learning it by ear), but most of those old fiddle/banjo tunes are pretty simple in structure, so it might be fun for you to do. It's definitely a traditional tune and not copyrighted. I do like that tune name "Protect the Innocent".

instrument question- Stephens Lutherie/holy grail dulcimer?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I don't think the song is under copyright.  It appears to have a long history as a clawhammer banjo tune, but at one time the title was different and included a racial epithet.  From what I can figure out, by the 1970s, folks were calling it "Shaving a Dead Man" or "Protect the Innocent."  There's lots of banjo tab out on the tune as well as discussions about playing it in different keys and tunings.

updated by @dusty: 02/07/24 08:20:37PM

instrument question- Stephens Lutherie/holy grail dulcimer?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

That song may be  under copyright. I did a search and could not find when it was written.  Your best avenue may be to purchase the sheet music and create your own tab from the sheet music.

instrument question- Stephens Lutherie/holy grail dulcimer?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Hi sorry I don't know where to post this question. Any idea where to get the dulcimer tablature for a song Shaving a Dead Man? Thanks Kids

Reasons NOT To Get a Chromatic

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Well, I expect this question has been settled in the mind of the OP, at least with regard to the purchase that was being contemplated.  But it's still an intriguing question to consider. 

For me, the answer would be--I don't wanna.  At least, not at this time.  I mostly play melody-drone fingerdance (with a few sort of chords occasionally), and I don't feel a need to get a chromatic.  I do retune to get different modes (and I keep my various dulcimers in one of a couple of different tunings most of the time).  One reason I appreciate having a 6 1/2 fret is that it gives me two modes in each tuning--for instance, in DAC Aeolian I can also play in Dorian...

I've been wanting to add a 1 1/2 fret (along with an 8 1/2) to one of mine, to explore what it gives me.  I already know I'd appreciate that subtonic note on the middle string.  (I can play it on the 6th fret of the bass string when tuned DAD, but that doesn't really satisfy me.)  I guess for me it's discovering and deciding what music I want to play and how I want to play it, and how I get my instrument(s) to contribute to that. 

Richard Krueger Psaltery

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Wow!  Looks like a psaltery fit for a king!  Or a queen! 

I have a bowed psaltery from Song of the Wood, which I have been known to play.  It is made with that beautiful red-purple wood (by my request).  I actually took a (virtual) class with Bill Schilling during the North Georgia Foothills Dulcimer Association virtual festival in November (NGFDA, a great organization and wonderful festival!). 

Bill is great, and the class was a lot of fun.  It was on playing rounds in minor keys.  I'm hoping to keep inspired to play my psaltery more.  I even tuned it before the class, for the first time since I got it....

How precisely do you tune up?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Definite revelations fretless instruments provide.

Another knowledge and skill accumulated on the quest for the perhaps unobtainable Noter Jedi, uh, hood : )

updated by @randy-adams: 02/07/24 02:58:26PM

How precisely do you tune up?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

That is so funny-"lower your standards",indeed!.Fretless banjo would be perfect because there are so many tonalities other than the piano scale you can draw on.I once studied classical violin for 3 years trying to upgrade my fiddling skills.I learned a lot,especially problem solving,but it took me 3 years to get back to normal...obsessive about tuning was one of the issues.It's very subjective depending on the culture.I've known blues guitarists who tune sharp or flat to the band in order to create an edge I guess.Some of my favourite recordings from the 30's are where the fiddler is playing what we now would call a minor key,the pianist(Cape Breton) is playing major.That said,the major/minor third dichotomy in trad players differs from player to player,tune to tune.I suppose a tuner could sort that out but using the ears and fingers would be the quickest way.. 

New instruments that I have no clue about!

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The frets and offset strings were what set me off and confused me! He gave me a standar 4 string dulcimer last year and I figured that one out fairly quickly but the fret lay out is different. I’m wondering if they are just additional half steps that an eppinete has vs a dulcimer? But I’m not expert in that!

I’ll take some time later to take some pictures of the other instruments he has made me, I have a few acoustics and electric guitars that I’ve had and played the heck out of over the years. The first one he built me cracked on the side and it spread all the way to the strap nut, I brought it to him to ask him to fix it and he said “sure bring it out to the shop”.

He then proceeded to cut the thing in half on his bandsaw and handed me a new dreadnaught he built me, has old growth Brazilian rose wood sides and back with a Sitka spruce top and that sucker stays in its case and gets wiped down after every play! (I was still mad and a bit traumatized seeing him cut my first guitar in half!)

 

Thanks for the info, from you and everyone! It’s been a busy week at work so sorry for the delay in response here. The bouzouki you mentioned, he told me the acoustic one is just a hybrid he made and set it as a 4 string banjo, and the electric one is a 5 string banjo.

Do you know what the tuning on the balalaiki would be?

How precisely do you tune up?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

So many interesting aspects to this subject. Culture is definitely a big one. But so is age, for me at least. 
I have a very precise ear for tuning. Not exactly what they call 'perfect pitch', but near to that. In my 40s, it used to drive me insane when my string or note (or someone else's string) was slightly off pitch. Now I'm almost 70 and I find I'm a little bit more laid back about little things like that. I know they say people get more picky or whatever as they get older, but honestly I've gotten a bit more lax in what I find tolerable. That said, I do actually think that taking up the fretless banjo helped me to lower my musical standards.  

How precisely do you tune up?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Dusty, I have always found the cultural aspect of pitch perception to be really fascinating. It's a pretty vast topic and really puts into perspective how nuanced the things that make music 'enjoyable' to people are. Even just the difference in sound between two temperaments is interesting. I tend to think being too attached to a certain set of exact pitches limits enjoyment of music. In a perfect world I could hear exactly how in tune I am, and still not mind if I'm out of tune. It seems like I have to compromise one for the other.
Nate

How precisely do you tune up?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Nate, this won't help answer your question at all, but you might find it as interesting as I do.  I am reading an ethnomusicology text, which stresses that in western culture, we tend to value pitch exactness. That is indeed what prompted your question here.  Like most of us, you try to get your notes as close to the exact pitch as possible.  But in certain other traditional cultures, that is considered ugly, and they aim for a shimmering or pulsing effect when the pitch of a note hovers around what you and I would consider the exact pitch.  Think of the way a sitar player uses tremolo, or the vocal stylings of Arabic music.  The text gives an extended example of Balinese gamelan, in which the tuning of the instruments themselves is intended to create that shimmering effect.

As I said, I find this really interesting, but it's not going to change my search for exact pitch.

Any banjo players out there?

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Grabbed this off FB...Golden Highway

How precisely do you tune up?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Good ? Nate. 

I've gone thru several stages of sour note acceptance - always trending toward more tolerance, with the dulcimer and my head. Here's where I'm at now.  5ths and unisons have to be lined up as sweet as possible. That's it.

How precisely do you tune up?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Something I am usually doing is tuning for the first fret. I own some dulcimers that have a little high nut and therefore tuning for the opened strings results in slightly sharp note at the first fret around +5 cents. This method can work great but I admit it is really a trial and error process. 

Another thing which I am doing is using the same method to position the saddle. Often the saddle is positioned so that the pitch at the 7th fret is in tune with the 2nd harmonic. While this works great for dulcimers having a very low action (particularly low nut), I have had better results with positioning my saddle comparing the tune at the 1st fret and the 8th fret. It seems to offer a good compromise with intonation accuracy along the fretboard and a pleasant sound when playing melody-chords song.

Having a compensated nut - which is sometimes achieved on some guitars -  would probably solve all this but I haven't seen one yet with such elaborated one. 

Another thing is the accuracy of the tuner. I have bought a fender piezzo tuner which has a margin error that makes it unusable for a precise tuning. I am using my phone with the Tuner app from piascore and I have found it to be much more reliable.

updated by @nicolas-fr: 02/05/24 07:14:21AM

How precisely do you tune up?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Thanks for the info. I didn't realize how uncommon it is to use a tuner that measures in cents. I've tried a few types of tuners but eventually landed on my phone. The mic in a cell phone is very good quality. A few years ago I compared a snark, a d'addario, an offbrand one that came with an instrument, a strobe tuner built into an old fender amp, and my cellphone. I used a fancy mic plugged into my computer as the 'baseline' to compare them against.
The snark and strobe tuner both agreed I was 'in tune' once I was 5 cents off but didn't allow me to try to tune any closer. The d'addario and generic brand one actaully showed how many cents off I was, but seemed to have an accuracy issue and were a cent off from the true reading of my real mic. My cellphone seemed to completely agree with my real mic down to the cent, so that's what I use now.
The big thing that I learned from that process is that my ear cannot tell the difference. 5 cents off sounded exactly like 0 cents off every single time. I have gotten kind of fussy with getting it as close as possible, even though it makes no difference to my ear. That's why I was looking for some outside perspective.
Thanks all,
Nate

How precisely do you tune up?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I play traditional, usually in Ionian and I tune do-so-so by ear. 

How precisely do you tune up?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Tuning is such a big topic.I live in an area of high humidity...wood expands,contracts seasonally.Sometimes I have to tune my melody strings sharp or flat,depending on the time of year(in order to be in tune further up the neck).I'm a fiddle/guitar player...after using a tuner,I re-tune to what sounds right  to my ears.I.E.,if a song is in "G" on the guitar I'll play a C chord and a D chord.Certain fretted notes may be out of tune,so I go back to G and sharpen or flatten a few strings...just enough,so that when you play other chord shapes it's somewhat in tune and you don't notice the G chord being a bit out of tune....The fiddle is another ball game.After using a digital tuner for every string I have to retune because it doesn't ring out the way it should...What I've done for years now is to get a basic tone,usually "A" then use my ears and fingers to get to the maximum resonance,make the instrument sing.Playing with pipers reinforced that notion...they can spend a lot of time getting the pipes"humming"..depends on the reeds,the weather,etc.Not a digital tuner,laugh.

How precisely do you tune up?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Nate, I think most of us don't know how to answer this question.  We use electric tuners (A= 440, as Ken says), so we generally accept the tuner when it says we are on pitch.  Of course, those tuners are not all equally accurate, though the Peterson tuner that Robin mentions is supposed to be one of the best.  One of the issues with tuners is their display. Even if the mechanism inside can be trusted to 0.05 cents, the display may not be that accurate.  If there are 10 LED lights equally spaced between C# and D, well, you can do the math.  If there were 20 LED lights, the display would be twice as accurate, right? We often think about how easy or difficult those displays are to read, but few comment on the relationship between the display and the accuracy of the tuner in practice.

I have a couple of really accurate strobe tuners which I use at home, but when I'm out and about I trust a D'Addario violin tuner which I keep attached to my dulcimer. 

My own ear varies.  Sometimes it is very sensitive and I can hear very small imperfections in my tuning, even when the tuner says I'm in tune.  Those times are not enjoyable because I never like the sound of my own dulcimer.  But other times my ear is a bit "lazy" and anything close sounds good.  That is a much more enjoyable space to be because I can just strum away in blissful ignorance.

updated by @dusty: 02/03/24 12:49:19PM

Any banjo players out there?

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Ha !...absurd talent indeed. Jalan Crossland
Thank you for the share Nate.
Love the song too.
See reply in chat box.

How precisely do you tune up?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I usually try to tune "dead on" when I'm playing alone or with a group. This means I have to adjust the tuning after playing a while as the temperature changes in the room where I play most often. If I can get the needle on my tuner in the center for all three strings I'm happy. An addition to your question Nate "is to what standard do you tune?" I use A440 which our group uses. I think most orchestras these days use a standard of A442 and I've been reading that some groups are going up to A448 or in that neighborhood to "sweeten" the sound. Now having said all that, often when playing alone I'll just tune the dulcimer to itself. 

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

How precisely do you tune up?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I think repertoire and whether or not one plays alone make big differences in what is "good enough".  

For me, I use a Peterson tuner and Mark and I both try to be very much in tune with one another or we'll make our tunes even worse.     When I'm playing by myself, I like to be in tune with myself or it can drive me a little crazy.  

How precisely do you tune up?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Since I seldom play with others and I'm not haunted by perfect pitch or ADHD, as long as nothing is too sharp or flat, "in the vicinity of..." work for me. 

How precisely do you tune up?

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Hey folks 

Id love some input on how close you get your tuning to perfect before calling it "good enough"

I personally try to tune within 3 cents of exactly on note,(3/100ths of a semitone) and I am curious what is 'normal/common'

Thanks for any input

Nate

updated by @nate: 02/03/24 12:06:46AM

Any banjo players out there?

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Jalan Crossland is an absurd talent 

Any banjo players out there?

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

 
Thank you for your offer I appreciate that. So far so good but if I have any questions I'll definitely take the opportunity to ask.
 
Those banjo-leles seem like a lot of fun. I just got everything I need to make myself a banjo drumhead, and a banjolele is going to be the first thing I try making.
 
That is very cool! I did not know his name, but I'm a big fan of Molly Tuttle with Golden Highway, which he is the banjo player for. Definitely an extremely talented and entertaining banjo player. There seem to be a lot of very talented banjo players coming out of the modern "folk punk" bluegrass scene. A few that come to mind are Billy Failing, Jalan Crossland, Matt Heckler and now, Kyle Tuttle

Nate
updated by @nate: 02/02/24 06:24:17PM

How do I create a new forum discussion?

Site QUESTIONS ? How do I...?

Hi Sandra. You can read this here discussion to leanr how to create a new discussion thread. Then, go to our For Sale/Wanted forum:
https://fotmd.com/forums/forum/for-saleinstruments-music-items-cds-wanted-to-buy

...and start your new thread about the dulcimer you are Wanting. Choose a title for your thread that lets folks know what it's about.  Thanks!

How do I create a new forum discussion?

Site QUESTIONS ? How do I...?

Am looking for a mcspadden ginger , key of d,

Intonation Problems

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Matt is correct in his pointing out that raising the nut (or zero fret) has benefits in achieving the lowest overall action.  Someone has done the analysis to prove that raising it about 0.005 from dead flat allows for keeping the action lower at the saddle.  To that end, I use a zero fret that is about 0.005 higher than the jumbo frets on the rest of the fretboard.  One of the advantages of the bolt on neck that I use is that I can adjust the spacer under the zero fret to fine the action a few thousandths up or down from there as required during setup.  The rest of the fretboard is flat when the strings are not at tension.  Under tension the fretboard bows very slightly, perhaps simulating the curve that Dwain explained.

Intonation Problems

Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Thanks all for your generosity in sharing suggestions. Can't wait to get started!