Forum Activity for @strumelia

Paul, great post and great explanation. However I see most dulcimer players calling this kind of thing a ' reverse tuning', as in 'reverse ionian tuning for the key of G' for DGdd, etc. I seldom see dulcimer players referring to it as 'new modes' or inversions. Just thought I'd mention that in case anyone gets confused.

Ahh!!!! You are right there!

Hi Robin,

This is probably one of those things where you need to be very specific.
Whilst it's true you can play an Ionian tune from the Mixalydian position with a 6+, the reverse is not true, you can't play a Mixalydian tune from the Ionian position.
i.e. if you have a 6 in your tab it will map up the fretboard to 8+. (Io goes 6+ => 9, but Mix goes 6 => 8+))

As the 6+ provides a second fretboard a 5th above the first the order will be

Lyd => Io => Mix => Dor => Aeo => Phr => Loc

IOW. with a 6+ you can play Dor from the Aeo position, Io from the Lyd position etc, But it's only ever one way traffic.

john

There are always trade-offs. The capo gives, but it also takes away. A new tuning gives, but it also takes away. Same for extra frets. Each of these ideas have uses, but learn when to use each of them to take advantage of their benefits and minimize the drawbacks. As an example, most songs start on the 1st,3rd, or 5th note of the scale. Sometimes they start on the 3rd or 5th below the lowest-octave 1st note used in the song. The melody walks up to that 1st note. You Are My Sunshine doesn't hit a "1" until the word "Sun." If we tune or capo so that our melody string is tuned to a "1" or "8", we have to find these lower notes on the middle string. Pretty simple for finger dancers, but tough for noter players. A better alternative for noter players is a tuning that places the melody string tuned to the 5th of the desired scale. In this example, the capo may not be the ideal answer. Learn to use different tunings as well as capos. Extra frets can make certain things easier, but to use them to eliminate retuning can limit our learning, particularly where modes are concerned.

Babs, you may want to try tuning DGdd, letting your root be on the middle string instead of the bass string. This is what some people call a "new" mode. Actually, the mode isn't new, just the tuning is new. Traditionally, the root or key note, was on the bass string, and the middle string was a 5th above it. In new modes, the root is on the middle, and the 5th is below it, on the bass string. You have to reverse the fingering of these two strings to use the GDdd tab. But learning a song or two will have you well on your way, and you will find you have learned something very useful. These new modes are not really new, they are called inversions by chord players. Guitarists, mandolinists, and keyboard players have used inversions for a very long time. Dulcimer players seem to have only been playing chords a short time, relatively speaking, but we invert them in standard tunings as well as new tunings. Every time we relocate a chord in a different part of the fret board, it is an inversion.

Paul

You may want to look at that one again John. From D,A,d a capo at fret 3 gives you G,d,g and the full standard ionian scale (do,ra,me,fa,so,la,te,do). So you can play ionian chord melody tunes using the same fingering you would for a chord melody tune in D,A,d only you are now in the key of G. The original 6+ becomes a 3+, which is ignored.

Robin

john p said:

Hmmm. Couple of points here.

What you suggest is a simple way of getting to G. but only works for tunes that are gapped at the 7th. Otherwise you need a 8+ fret to give you the min7th. Many Mixalydian tunes are gapped, so you can often get away with it.

The second scale you talk about starts a 5th above the original, not a 4th. In order to use it you would need to take the DAd tuning down a tone to CGc and place the capo at the 4th fret. You can then use the 6+ to give you the maj3rd.

john

Robin Clark said:

You can make it really easy for yourself Babs. Use the TAB numbers as written - but start counting the frets from your capo. So fret 3 is your new 0, fret 4 is now 1, fret 5 is now 2 etc. So you can just play the TAB as it is witten with no differnce in the fingering pattern to playing without the capo. See using the capo as simply giving you a shorter dulcimer in a higher key!!! The tuning you are using is still a 1-5-8 tuning the same as DAd only now it is G,d,g. BTW this simplicity is only the case with a capo at fret 3 because your dulcimer fretboard has two major scales exactly the same (due to the 6+) - one starts at the nut and the other at fret 3. If you put the capo on other frets then all bets are off !!!!!!

Robin

Is there a particular reason you want to match the key in which the tab was written? In many cases, there is no need to do this. Tab writers often use keys to match their voices, or to fit in with the key their band members are using, but they may just like the way a certain key sounds on their instrument. If your strings are better suited to DAdd,go with it. Just enjoy.

Paul

Hmmm. Couple of points here.

What you suggest is a simple way of getting to G. but only works for tunes that are gapped at the 7th. Otherwise you need a 8+ fret to give you the min7th. Many Mixalydian tunes are gapped, so you can often get away with it.

The second scale you talk about starts a 5th above the original, not a 4th. In order to use it you would need to take the DAd tuning down a tone to CGc and place the capo at the 4th fret. You can then use the 6+ to give you the maj3rd.

john

Robin Clark said:

You can make it really easy for yourself Babs. Use the TAB numbers as written - but start counting the frets from your capo. So fret 3 is your new 0, fret 4 is now 1, fret 5 is now 2 etc. So you can just play the TAB as it is witten with no differnce in the fingering pattern to playing without the capo. See using the capo as simply giving you a shorter dulcimer in a higher key!!! The tuning you are using is still a 1-5-8 tuning the same as DAd only now it is G,d,g. BTW this simplicity is only the case with a capo at fret 3 because your dulcimer fretboard has two major scales exactly the same (due to the 6+) - one starts at the nut and the other at fret 3. If you put the capo on other frets then all bets are off !!!!!!

Robin

You can make it really easy for yourself Babs. Use the TAB numbers as written - but start counting the frets from your capo. So fret 3 is your new 0, fret 4 is now 1, fret 5 is now 2 etc. So you can just play the TAB as it is witten with no differnce in the fingering pattern to playing without the capo. See using the capo as simply giving you a shorter dulcimer in a higher key!!! The tuning you are using is still a 1-5-8 tuning the same as DAd only now it is G,d,g. BTW this simplicity is only the case with a capo at fret 3 because your dulcimer fretboard has two major scales exactly the same (due to the 6+) - one starts at the nut and the other at fret 3. If you put the capo on other frets then all bets are off !!!!!!

Robin

If you want to change out your string and set up your dulcimer for "true" key of G, you'll want to use a string gauge calculator like the one at www.strothers.com to determine which gauges of strings to buy.

Hi Babs,

You will not be able to tune a standard set of dulcimer strings on a standard dulcimer from DAdd either UP to G,d,gg or DOWN to G',D,GG. The most you'll safely get from most string sets is up to E and down to A with the bass string, up to d and down to G with the middle string and up to d and down to G with the melody strings. That's assuming a 28" scale and the McSpadden DAA string gauges on 0.022w, 0.012, 0.012, 0.012.

What you could do however is to tune to DAdd and then put a capo on fret 3. You can play the same as if youwere in DAdd only you are now in Gdgg.

Robin

No, but I'd love to have something more than just an email address. Does he have a website or Ebay store or something where we can see what he's selling?

Hi Lisa -Now that's a GREAT photo!!!!!!

I'm just learning tremolo - it is THE sound of the instrument after all I have found a couple of good lessons on Youtube - one of which talked about angling the pick slightly just by rocking your thumb so it glides over the strings and doesn't catch. The other talked about the wrist action, matching your tremolo speed to the speed of the metronome beat, and getting the whole arm totally relaxed so it i just a loose, quick. non stressedwrist action. All seem like good tips. I'm working on double stop temolo too - as I really love that sound and there seems to be a lot of it in the old bluegrass tracks I'm listening to.

Dave - that's lovely playing I've certainly not reached the key of A pentatonic blues page in the book yet!

Robin

Dave, I love the button you're sportin' there! Oh, and the playings nice, too.

Robin, I have several lovely mandolins from waaay back almost 20 years ago when I was learning to play it. I wish after several years of playing I could have sounded halfway as good as you do right now! I think you sound terrific already!

have you learned to do tremolo yet? That's one of the most wonderful things about the sound of the mandolin, and is beautifully incorporated in any style you might choose to play- traditional, folk, 'old world' European ethinic, bluegrass, klezmer, even modern pop and jazz styles. To me, tremolo is the icing on the cake of mandolin playing. I learned how to play the Puerto Rican cuatro (learned actually in the mountains of PR) before trying mandolin, by the way- the traditional cuatro uses a lot of tremolo.

Here's a fun old pic of me (in back) with one of my mandolins- my 1915 Wurlitzer....lol!

Robin, although I hardly ever play it anymore, I, too,picked up a Kentucky A-style mandolin a few years ago (I also splurged for the one with the solid top, but there is a model without it, so it is not quite the cheapest model) and played it regularly for a while when I shared a house with a guitarist far better than I. That instrument has a very balanced sound, though not as much punch perhaps as the real expensive mandolins.

But I think you are underestimating your abilities when you say there are no crossover skills. That fast and steady right hand you have developed is what's enabling you to jump right in and play some bluegrass chops as part of a rhythm section. Someone without your experience would have to play for a long time to be able to do that. And your general understanding of the music will eventually encourage you to add filler or small solos here and there. You will very soon start translating musical ideas from the dulcimer to the mandolin and eventually vice versa.

You seem to haveconcrete goals with the mandolin and I have no doubt that you will achieve them, but even if you don't take up the mandolin with the same enthusiasm and mastery that characterizes your dulcimer playing, I would bet in the long run, playing the mandolin will make you a better dulcimer player.

And your description of serious practice is a heartening one.

Hi Rick - yep it is a lot of fun!

I think that having a very specific goal really helps to move skills forward (the goal for me is to play the mandolinin our band's set at gigs on roughly 20% of the set by the end of 2013 - so I need a least 5 tunes at stage performance level on the instrument), each little bit of practice time is focussed on taking little steps forward towards that goal. Also, I always expect to struggle a little whenever I practice. If I'm not struggling to do something new then I'm not learning anything. So whilst practice is 'fun' for me on all my instruments that 'fun' comes from meanngful, results focused practice. Ican rememberthat Stephen Seifert put up a quote somewhere from a pro musician that was something along the lines of "The more I learn to play my instrument the harder it gets to play". I think that's because each new skill learned opens up more doors of possibility and is also stacked on previous skills - so you just end up building one skill on top of another that are all running consecutively.

We have a great metaphor for this phenomena in our village. Coming out of the back of the village we have an old cattle and sheep drovers road going up over Cadair Idris to Dolgellau - it is called the Ffordd Ddu or 'Black Road'. Quite a few of us from the village will mountain bike the 'up and over' on a regular basis. The 1000ft climb to the top takes about 40 minutes from the valley floor. We all comment how, despite cycling the road regularly for many years, the climb never gets any easier! We just do it a little faster some days or a little slower others, and generally faster than when we first started - but the feeling of effort remains the same. And this is how music practice should feel -the feeling of effort should remain high despite your skill level. The goal of practice is to physicallychange the way you play. If you are not working every time you pick up your instrument on changing the way you play by the time you put it down then your practice time is ineffective.

Robin

Sounds like you are having fun, Robin--I mean, I think that I can hear it in your playing even though you are getting used to the instrument. Watching/listening to old Bill Monroe clips on YouTube is always fun for me, so I hope to hear some more from you on the instrument.

Well I've been playing mandolin for a whole3 weeks now!!!! The model I have is a Kentucky KM140 (the bottom end of their range). It has a solid spruce top and maple laminate back and sides. The general construction was actually pretty good and the neck angle excellent. The frets had been leveled but not re-crowned - so I did that job and a fret polish. I popped a set of Gibson monel strings on it, cut the nut, set the truss rodand set-up the bridge intonation and height. Knowing nothing about mandolins I took the set-up measurements from Gibson's standard mandolin set-up (5/64ths bass side @12th and 3/64s treble side @ 12th) and it plays like a dream What I love about the instrument is just how much fun a mandolin is to play

Here's a sound clip of an improvisedlead break for Wild and Wicked World that I'm working on. As expected after such a short time I'm still veryclumsy with the instrument in my hands! Hopefully everything will feel more natural as we get more 'hands on' time together!:

Thanks !

Rick, I don't think that the two instruments, dulcimer and mandolin, are complimentary from a player's perspective as there are no cross-over skills that I can see- the mandolinis a very different instrument to handle. I have a big advantage coming new to the mandolin over many beginners; and that is that I know the music I want to achieve very well. I've played dobro in a bluegrass band for about 7 years and so have stood next to a mandolin player for many, many hours watching what they do and hearing the part the instrument plays in bluegrass music. I have also played dulcimer for many hours with a mandolin player (The Kitchen Sessions) although for much of the time he switched to mandola or tenor guitar.

So my mandolin practice is focussing on the physical - getting really confortable with the instrument in my hands as quickly as I can. I have no intention of becoming a great mandolin player but if I can reasonably knock out chops, fills and the odd lead break at a steady standard for bluegrass band gigs then that will be just fine. I play exactly those parts on dobro - chops, fills and lead breaks - so it is the physical techniques of the mandolin that I have to concentrate on. For example the act of playing chops, in time, on the off-beat, to drive the band along I have already completely wired on dobro, and for the last 18 months or so since our mandolin player left the band I have taken up that role to an evengreater extent. So on mandolin I have focussed on getting my instrument hold,pick grip, strum technique and 4 finger chop chords practicedmost because for85% or more of the time I spend with the instrument in my handson stagemy primary job will be classic mandolin chops to drive the band along. I need to work out some kick-offs, a couple of turnarounds, a few finishes and some lead breaks to whatever tunes I switch from dobro to mandolin on (I'll probably use a lot of vibrato double stops on my lead breaks as they look flashy, sound bluegrassy and eat up time - and are far easier than intricate fast runs!!!!!!!) - and that's going to be about the sum of my mandolin playing

Robin

knock em out

Photos? Love to see you holding a different instrument. Kind of wonder if the two instruments (MD and mandolin) are complimentary... You continue to surprise!

No - I've not seen that one. I must case up a copy

R N Lackey said:

Good for you, Robin. Nice to see someone unafraid to take on a new instrument. I'm sure you'll be posting video of your mandolin technique really soon! Oh... have you heard the Baldissari/Schnaufer Appalachian Mandolin/Dulcimer album? I'm sure you have, but just in case

Good for you, Robin. Nice to see someone unafraid to take on a new instrument. I'm sure you'll be posting video of your mandolin technique really soon! Oh... have you heard the Baldissari/Schnaufer Appalachian Mandolin/Dulcimer album? I'm sure you have, but just in case

My youngest son bought me a Kentucky make A Style mandolin for Christmas and said "I thought that you may be able to play this in your band". We lost our mandolin player about a year ago, but picked up a fiddler

I really wasn't sure if my left hand with its finger damage would cope with a mandolin but 2 weeks in and I seem to be managing to reach everything I want to OK. In fact, the 4 finger G and D chords may be a little easier with the top section of your first finger missing (not that I'd recommend it ).

YouTube has been great. I watched Bill Munroe on Christmas Day to get an idea how to stand and hold the instrument and use a strap. I did a full set-up onthe instrument.In the past two weeks I'veworked my way through stuff like pick grip and technique (I bought a load of mandolin picks and have tried different styles - at present the Wengen 1.00 is my fav for tone and handling),easy chords, bluegrass chop chords, scales, vibrato, simple riffs and solos, double stopsand played as many old time tunes in differnt keys as I could work out. This evening I took the instrument to band practice and had 3 hours of flat out bluegrass speed chops standing next to the bass player (boom chick heaven ) plus I was being chucked solos on each tune (which I played really badly ). There's nothing like peer pressure from the rest of the band to sharpen up your playing!!!!

It looks like we may have a gig on Friday - if we do then I'll give the instrument its first stage outing for a couple of tunes

Pedant? What's that about your feet? It's never pedantic to ask for a clarification!

My bad. I should (as I advised someone else yesterday) provide a 'reader's guide' to my tab. There is no standard for writing tab.

Yes - repeated numbers are repeated strums (notes) at that fret.

I use periods rather than blank spaces between notes to indicate "relative timing" timing. Some websites cram several blank spaces into one, so I use the periods as space holders. With three dots you hold the note longer than one or two dots or no space between the strums.

Hope that makes sense.

Welcome James, to our little corner of musical paradise.

Most tab does not indicate strum pattern, because in many, many cases the direction you strum doesn't matter if you exercise pick angle control to emphasize the melody strings rather than the drones.

Tons of tab at www.everythingdulcimer.com that is not chord-melody style. Also a site called sniff.numachi.com ... depends on the kinds of music you like.

You won't find much published tab for anything by Dylan as it is still covered under US Copyright law.

Maybe these will help:

Amazing Grace - DAA tuning

0..3.5.3.5.4.3.1.0

0..3.5.3.5.4.7

5.7.5.7.5.3.1.3.1.0

0..3.5.3.5.4.3

Blowin' in the Wind -- DAA tuning

7.77.8.7.6.7.5.4.3

7.77.8.7.6.7

7.77.8.7.6.7.5.4.3

77.77.6.55.4

5.66.5.4.4.555.4.3

5.66.5.44..3.2.3

Congrats on your new dulcimer. IMHO--it is very normal to enjoy playing your new dulcimer. Everytime a new dulcimer arrives at my home--it gets lots of playing and attention. :) Fortunately, I don't have an additive personality--but instead, I'm very active in dulcimer, banjo, and guitar rescue--a compassionate and humanitarian calling

mzc

Enjoy all of it, and juggle the time however it most needs to be at any one time. Whatever gets shorted one time will come out ahead some other time. The babies will someday be grown, and won't require as much of your time as now. And you'll be glad for every minute you spent with them. Just enjoy the ride.

Paul

Mandy, something that may help is to get a schedule book (if you don't already have one) and physically schedule times for X and Y and Z and A and B on a daily and weekly basis.... Then, of course, stick to the schedule. the secret is to also schedule in time for nothing specific -- sit back and take a breath time.

Hi ya'll. I'm much more calm tonight about it. Of course that's because I've been playing music for the last hour and a half!!!!!

I do try and live the most balanced life I can right now, but it's just hard when I want to be playing more. I know I'm a whiny baby and all, but it is a constant test to try and squeeze in the time I want.

As for giving up things like the business, I don't want to do that. Giving up helping some folks learn in my home, naw don't want to do that either. It's totally not about the money either, believe it or not. It's because I now have people who are depending on me and I don't want to let them down. Plus it's fun watching that spark in their eyes as something clicks and the sheer joy of playing music.

I'm learning everyday to prioritize everything I do at home. If it's supper or something I'll try and get the dishes done while I'm cooking or I'll put them away and try and take out the trash and stuff like that all together. That way when my daughter goes to bed most things are already done so I can go watch TV (BLAH) or go play music. Some nights I'm really lazy and just sit there like a zombie watching TV, but most nights I can sneak up and play for an hour or so before bed. The problem is that I've come from being able to play for hours a day anytime I want to now having to squeeze it in.

Tanya - welcome to our little corner of musical paradise. I'll give you a short answer here, and suggest that you start a new separate discussion in the Beginner Group rather than side tracking Mandy's discussion. Tht way too mor epeople will see your questions and respond to them.

The first thing I suggest is that you read the article I wrote called I Just Got A Dulcimer Now What?? It's an illustrated glossary of dulcimer terminology, plus answers to many beginner questions about the tuning, playing, care and feeding of our favorite instrument.

The article is here: http://mountaindulcimer.ning.com/profiles/blogs/i-just-got-a-dulcimer-now-what

Things to understand... With a given set of strings (diameters) you can only tune the dulcimer up or down a couple of keynotes before things get too tight or too sloppy. Generally speaking, you can only play in one Key at a time. To change keys you must re-tune the dulcimer. Most dulcimers are tuned to the key of D and with the 'normal' string set can tune down to C or maybe B, and up to E and maybe F. Any other keys require different strings. Under most circumstances the Keynote of the dulcimer is defined by the note to which the bass string is tuned. That's the farthest string from you, The middle and melody string(s) are tuned to higher pitches relative to that keynote -- for example DAA, CGG, DAd, CGc. For each keynote the multi-finger chords will be different.

Never heard anything bad about a Folkcraft dulcimer. Hope to hear yours soon.(Hope you sing too!)

Sounds GREAT Mandy~

Careful there Mandy, the other instruments may get a little jealous and wont come out and play anymore. It's great to see someone enjoying music this much.

When are you going to post a picture or are you going to keep us in suspense?

First of all, ha ha made ya look! No seriously though I am having some issues.I've heard people talking about having lulls in music and that I would have phases where I would eventually go for long stretches without playing music. Funny thing is that I'veNot had that happen yet at all. Actually it's more the opposite. My desire to play has only gotten stronger over the years. Now I've done the insane thing of playing a bunch of different instruments to top it off. It's totally fun, don't get me wrong, dut dang I feel like I have a crack addiction or something.So now that I'm working again full time, trying to take care of my 6 year old, my husband, be in a band, run a minuscule business, and still teach a couple of people at home, YIKES I am in way over my head here. I'm not complaining, don't get me wrong, but my crack addiction is suffering and it's actually painful!My wonderful husband is helping me, so that relieves some things, but now I have a beautiful new dulcimer!!!!! I'm physically in pain here people!! Can u feel me?I play it every second I get and MAN it is AWESOME. I'm playing TONS better just in the 5 glorious days I've had my hands on it.So here goes - Hi I'm Mandy and I am an addict. HELP. Insert goofy sad faces here.....

This is lovely Phil. Thank you for posting this. I hope you had a wonderful Christmas celebration.

Great job, Phil! Keep up the good playing. Keeping those fingers moving will help the arthritis in the long run.